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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville

 
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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 8/2/2014 8:27:29 PM   
UTB


Posts: 9551
Joined: 30/9/2005
Well.. my first thought was "what the fuck?". Thinking about it, though, I can imagine in instances where the defendant has gotten off on a technicality or something that this might be of use...

(in reply to Scruffybobby)
Post #: 721
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 10/2/2014 3:03:30 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1150
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

Well.. my first thought was "what the fuck?". Thinking about it, though, I can imagine in instances where the defendant has gotten off on a technicality or something that this might be of use...


A "not proven" verdict is still an acquittal, and on receiving one the accused is still set free and any double jeopardy rights will still attach. It merely means that while they aren't actually sure of innocence, they aren't sure enough of guilt to convict. As noted by Scruffybobby, there is a certain amount of controversy about it.

It is mostly about the public perception such a verdict brings. A not proven verdict might stigmatise a completely innocent party in a way a not guilty verdict wouldn't. So in a case like the one we are discussing while they may have cleared their name in the eyes of the law, if the case is declared not proven, there may be some lingering doubt in the eyes of public perception.

There is of course the counter argument that there is no way for a court to state the accused is completely innocent. It has been argued by legal theorists, particularly in America, that a not guilty verdict, where a not proven verdict is available, does just that. It is one of the more interesting debates in jurisprudence.

I suspect what you were going, "What the fuck?" over was the notion that this might be used to invoke double jeopardy. This does not do that. However it doesn't have to.

Double jeopardy was pretty well abolished under English law in 2003 and under Scottish law in 2011. If there is compelling new evidence that could convict a person who was acquitted for a crime, they can be re-charged and re-tried for the same offence. It has (for example) allowed DNA evidence, which was unavailable at the time of the original trial, to be used to convict a person where without it they walked free.

(in reply to UTB)
Post #: 722
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 21/2/2014 8:03:18 AM   
Brooksy84


Posts: 451
Joined: 25/1/2010
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ian-watkins-took-picture-child-3167900

This is pretty disgraceful if correct. With some of the criticism of how certain cases have gone to trial that probably never should have, it's worth considering what the flip side is: a world where a celebrity is considered beyond investigation. Much like the one Saville lived in.

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(in reply to Dpp1978)
Post #: 723
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/3/2014 7:46:10 AM   
MrsFinkelstein


Posts: 173
Joined: 29/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ian-watkins-took-picture-child-3167900

This is pretty disgraceful if correct. With some of the criticism of how certain cases have gone to trial that probably never should have, it's worth considering what the flip side is: a world where a celebrity is considered beyond investigation. Much like the one Saville lived in.


I'd say the Watkins and Saville cases are a world away from the more recent other ones we've seen (William Roache and DLT), where the allegations only surfaced 40+ years later.

I do have issues with the decision to pursue a conviction with DLT on 2 charges, when he's been cleared on 10 others, I just see that as unlikely to end with a conviction and just waste more money.

I'm not saying cases shouldn't be pursued generally - just in this individual sitation, it does seem to be verging on a witch hunt now. And all to assuage guilt re Saville.

(in reply to Brooksy84)
Post #: 724
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