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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville

 
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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 11:13:25 AM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5046
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

His lawyer sounds awful - there's a quote in there about him saying someone who claimed to be abused at 6 had an 'agonising lack of detail'. Could you imagine him using that against someone a court felt had been abused?


She also claimed he'd abused her as recently as three years ago though. Perhaps the lawyer's choice of words wasn't great but it may have just been a polite way of saying she was clearly lying (which she was).
I've read quite a lot about the case and I reckon it was pretty clear from the off that the accusations were pure fantasy. While I don't particularly have muchsympathy for the girl at the minute, I reckon it's her idiot mother who should be taking a long hard look at herself.


Equally, though, childhood abuse and blocked memory go hand in hand to the extent it's almost commonplace. Had I read that comment before the verdict it would obviously have been worse - but fighting for your client or not. it's IMO a bit off.


True, but her lack of recollection wasn't the only reason he was found innocent - and lest we forget, we're talking about someone who wasn't abused here (by Le Vell, anyway).
And as Sinatra said, if it was me being wrongly accused of raping a child and I knew for a fact the girl was lying I'm pretty sure I'd want my lawyer to expose the 'agonising lack of detail' in her claims too.

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Post #: 601
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 11:24:49 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54554
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

His lawyer sounds awful - there's a quote in there about him saying someone who claimed to be abused at 6 had an 'agonising lack of detail'. Could you imagine him using that against someone a court felt had been abused?


She also claimed he'd abused her as recently as three years ago though. Perhaps the lawyer's choice of words wasn't great but it may have just been a polite way of saying she was clearly lying (which she was).
I've read quite a lot about the case and I reckon it was pretty clear from the off that the accusations were pure fantasy. While I don't particularly have muchsympathy for the girl at the minute, I reckon it's her idiot mother who should be taking a long hard look at herself.


Equally, though, childhood abuse and blocked memory go hand in hand to the extent it's almost commonplace. Had I read that comment before the verdict it would obviously have been worse - but fighting for your client or not. it's IMO a bit off.


True, but her lack of recollection wasn't the only reason he was found innocent - and lest we forget, we're talking about someone who wasn't abused here (by Le Vell, anyway).
And as Sinatra said, if it was me being wrongly accused of raping a child and I knew for a fact the girl was lying I'm pretty sure I'd want my lawyer to expose the 'agonising lack of detail' in her claims too.


Could you imagine him using that against someone a court felt had been abused?

My initial query. Because this seems to be symptomatic of the approach used by defence lawyers against people the court do decide are telling the truth as well. We know this because it's one of the key concerns with the way rape victims are treated in court, and considered to be one of reasons it's difficult to even get the cases to court.

I know they need to defend their clients to the best of their ability, but sometimes the tone and strategy they use takes my breath away.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 12/9/2013 12:49:03 PM >


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Post #: 602
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 12:38:19 PM   
Chief


Posts: 7766
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I know they need to defend their clients to the best of their ability, but sometimes the tone and strategy they use takes my breath away.


I imagine having to defend some monster that's 100% guilty of a heinous crime and you know it, you'd develop some sort of emotional detachment mechanism.

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Post #: 603
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 2:14:36 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5046
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Could you imagine him using that against someone a court felt had been abused?

My initial query. Because this seems to be symptomatic of the approach used by defence lawyers against people the court do decide are telling the truth as well. We know this because it's one of the key concerns with the way rape victims are treated in court, and considered to be one of reasons it's difficult to even get the cases to court.

I know they need to defend their clients to the best of their ability, but sometimes the tone and strategy they use takes my breath away.


Well, I don't profess to know much about the law but isn't this just what they do? The prosecuter's tone and strategy in accusing Le Vell of being a paedophile was pretty brutal too.
In answer to your initial query - I'd hazard a guess that yes, he probably would.

< Message edited by horribleives -- 12/9/2013 2:15:11 PM >


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Post #: 604
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 2:47:21 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I know they need to defend their clients to the best of their ability, but sometimes the tone and strategy they use takes my breath away.


I imagine having to defend some monster that's 100% guilty of a heinous crime and you know it, you'd develop some sort of emotional detachment mechanism.

I used to work in a solicitors office a few years back, and one of the solicitors told me about one of his first murder cases where his client was the accused.

He was found innocent, and as they left the courtroom and said all the congratulatory messages to each other etc, my colleague jokingly asked the guy "So, did you do it?"

A nod of the head, a sly grin, and he disappears into the crowd. My colleague made a mental note never to ask that question again.

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Post #: 605
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 3:11:15 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5046
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I know they need to defend their clients to the best of their ability, but sometimes the tone and strategy they use takes my breath away.


I imagine having to defend some monster that's 100% guilty of a heinous crime and you know it, you'd develop some sort of emotional detachment mechanism.

I used to work in a solicitors office a few years back, and one of the solicitors told me about one of his first murder cases where his client was the accused.

He was found innocent, and as they left the courtroom and said all the congratulatory messages to each other etc, my colleague jokingly asked the guy "So, did you do it?"

A nod of the head, a sly grin, and he disappears into the crowd. My colleague made a mental note never to ask that question again.


That's just reminded me of the ending to the classic Porridge episode Pardon Me.


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Post #: 606
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 3:37:17 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54554
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O/T definitely on the short list of best bits of Porridge

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 607
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 3:40:40 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4421
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I know they need to defend their clients to the best of their ability, but sometimes the tone and strategy they use takes my breath away.


I imagine having to defend some monster that's 100% guilty of a heinous crime and you know it, you'd develop some sort of emotional detachment mechanism.

I used to work in a solicitors office a few years back, and one of the solicitors told me about one of his first murder cases where his client was the accused.

He was found innocent, and as they left the courtroom and said all the congratulatory messages to each other etc, my colleague jokingly asked the guy "So, did you do it?"

A nod of the head, a sly grin, and he disappears into the crowd. My colleague made a mental note never to ask that question again.


That sort of thing chills my blood.

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Post #: 608
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 3:42:09 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5046
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

O/T definitely on the short list of best bits of Porridge


After making that post I realised I had nothing much to do for the next couple of hours so I've dug out the DVD.

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Post #: 609
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 3:45:19 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54554
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

O/T definitely on the short list of best bits of Porridge


After making that post I realised I had nothing much to do for the next couple of hours so I've dug out the DVD.


The constant repeats on the satellite channels ensure it's rare for a week to go by without me seeing at least 2-3 episodes.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 610
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 4:27:37 PM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7841
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

A nod of the head, a sly grin, and he disappears into the crowd. My colleague made a mental note never to ask that question again.


Creepy...

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Post #: 611
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 4:31:53 PM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7841
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

The prosecuter's tone and strategy in accusing Le Vell of being a paedophile was pretty brutal too.


Exactly...

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Post #: 612
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 4:33:42 PM   
Sinatra


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Joined: 3/10/2005
Regarding the whole anonymity side of things.... that's a tough one, because as we saw with Stuart Hall, the publicity can flush out other victims...

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Post #: 613
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 9:10:06 PM   
Mister Coe

 

Posts: 1546
Joined: 20/10/2012
So, to sum all it up... 'no evidence' does not mean 'not guilty'...

I truly hope that the case of the Coronation Street bloke is not one of these...

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Post #: 614
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 12/9/2013 11:41:24 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Regarding the whole anonymity side of things.... that's a tough one, because as we saw with Stuart Hall, the publicity can flush out other victims...


Yeah, I was reading the Manchester Evening News at lunch and they had two solicitor give opposing opinions on anonymity and the Hall case has put me on the side of non-anonymity. The "against" solicitor had represented many of Hall's victims and most of them thought it was just them it happened to.

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Post #: 615
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 13/9/2013 10:21:53 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7841
Joined: 3/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

So, to sum all it up... 'no evidence' does not mean 'not guilty'...

I truly hope that the case of the Coronation Street bloke is not one of these...



He is not guilty.

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Post #: 616
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 13/9/2013 11:46:20 AM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5046
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

So, to sum all it up... 'no evidence' does not mean 'not guilty'...

I truly hope that the case of the Coronation Street bloke is not one of these...


I think it's blatantly obvious he's not guilty. You should read up on the case, in particular the decision made by the CPS to re-investigate the claims after the Savile scandal broke, despite being originally dismissed due to a complete lack of evidence, and also the character and reliability of not only the girl but her mother who was instrumental in pursuing the accusations and clearly something of a fantasist herself (unless her house really was haunted and all the exorcisms and blessings had no negative impact on her young daughter whatsoever...)

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Post #: 617
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 13/9/2013 12:09:16 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
If I was this LeVell guy, I would be seriously considering dragging the idiot mother into a libel case. I would be furious with her.

This is something that's going to stick with him despite the fact that he didn't do the things of which he was accused.

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Post #: 618
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 13/9/2013 5:48:33 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18118
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

If I was this LeVell guy, I would be seriously considering dragging the idiot mother into a libel case. I would be furious with her.

This is something that's going to stick with him despite the fact that he didn't do the things of which he was accused.



I would imagine he just wants to move and rather than spend more time in court. There is also the problem that there are differing laws relating to libel which could result in a different result which could be more damaging than cathartic.

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Post #: 619
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 13/9/2013 9:14:32 PM   
Mister Coe

 

Posts: 1546
Joined: 20/10/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

So, to sum all it up... 'no evidence' does not mean 'not guilty'...

I truly hope that the case of the Coronation Street bloke is not one of these...


I think it's blatantly obvious he's not guilty. You should read up on the case, in particular the decision made by the CPS to re-investigate the claims after the Savile scandal broke, despite being originally dismissed due to a complete lack of evidence, and also the character and reliability of not only the girl but her mother who was instrumental in pursuing the accusations and clearly something of a fantasist herself (unless her house really was haunted and all the exorcisms and blessings had no negative impact on her young daughter whatsoever...)


Woah, guys...

I wasn't saying that Mr Le Vell was guilty.  And I HAVE read up on the case...

I do believe that the whole thing is a total joke of a case... it looks like he's gonna get his job back and good luck to him.  I mean that sincerely.

I was just saying that just because there is no physical evidence, it doesn't mean that some awful shit didn't happen.  That's all.



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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 14/9/2013 10:42:07 AM   
jonson


Posts: 8999
Joined: 30/9/2005
While he's been found not guilty, and I don't believe for a minute he isn't, if I were him I'd want to just disappear for a few months and take stock.
Sure, he's got legal bills to pay, but all this talk of him jetting out to be in a reality show kind of pisses me off a bit.
I'm not a fan of celebrity shows anyway, but his family and friends - as well as him - have gone through hell in the last few years, it can't bear thinking about, but it all then seems bit false to be almost using his recent notoriety to make a quick buck off the back of it.
I suppose you can either run away and feel sorry for yourself or you deal with it head on.

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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 16/9/2013 9:14:49 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7841
Joined: 3/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson

While he's been found not guilty, and I don't believe for a minute he isn't, if I were him I'd want to just disappear for a few months and take stock.
Sure, he's got legal bills to pay, but all this talk of him jetting out to be in a reality show kind of pisses me off a bit.
I'm not a fan of celebrity shows anyway, but his family and friends - as well as him - have gone through hell in the last few years, it can't bear thinking about, but it all then seems bit false to be almost using his recent notoriety to make a quick buck off the back of it.
I suppose you can either run away and feel sorry for yourself or you deal with it head on.



I disagree there fella, I'm a Celebrity doesn't kick off until November, and I have read he is planning on visiting his brother in Australia and chilling out within the next couple of weeks. This guy has got legal bills to pay, and a decent 6 figure pay-day for 2 weeks in the jungle must seem hard to turn down! Good luck to him.

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Post #: 622
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 16/9/2013 9:15:55 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7841
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

I was just saying that just because there is no physical evidence, it doesn't mean that some awful shit didn't happen. That's all.


Maybe it did, but it wasn't by him. At the end of the day the jury didn't believe what the girl was saying.

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Post #: 623
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 16/9/2013 9:35:15 AM   
jonson


Posts: 8999
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra


quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson

While he's been found not guilty, and I don't believe for a minute he isn't, if I were him I'd want to just disappear for a few months and take stock.
Sure, he's got legal bills to pay, but all this talk of him jetting out to be in a reality show kind of pisses me off a bit.
I'm not a fan of celebrity shows anyway, but his family and friends - as well as him - have gone through hell in the last few years, it can't bear thinking about, but it all then seems bit false to be almost using his recent notoriety to make a quick buck off the back of it.
I suppose you can either run away and feel sorry for yourself or you deal with it head on.



I disagree there fella, I'm a Celebrity doesn't kick off until November, and I have read he is planning on visiting his brother in Australia and chilling out within the next couple of weeks. This guy has got legal bills to pay, and a decent 6 figure pay-day for 2 weeks in the jungle must seem hard to turn down! Good luck to him.


It's probably because I despise the programme with a passion, and all who go on it, and the people who watch it
My mistake though, the way they were talking it was as if he was literally jumping on the first plane. It just seemed in bad taste, as if he was acting on his recent climb up the celebrity ladder (i.e. being splashed on the front page of the papers) You'd think he'd want to lead a bit of a quiet life for a few months, give his family some breathing space, but no, he'll play the doe-eyed innocent victim as advised by his agent until Bill Roach gets let off in January and it's his turn.
But again, it's more to do with my hatred of this kind of crap.

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Post #: 624
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 16/9/2013 11:55:53 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7841
Joined: 3/10/2005
Surely you must love Ant & Dec though? They are the best thing on that show. They spend all their time ripping the piss out of the muppets taking part!

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Post #: 625
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 16/9/2013 11:59:59 AM   
jonson


Posts: 8999
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Surely you must love Ant & Dec though? They are the best thing on that show. They spend all their time ripping the piss out of the muppets taking part!


I do like Ant and Dec, they have fantastic chemistry, but the whole programme annoys me. I look down my nose awfully at people who watch it, I'm a right snob when it comes to what I call scumbag telly. So there. Get back to your scumbag telly.

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Post #: 626
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 16/9/2013 12:41:26 PM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7841
Joined: 3/10/2005
Grumpy old sod...

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Post #: 627
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 16/9/2013 1:06:59 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005
I'm beginning to think we should try and petition to get Jonson on it

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Post #: 628
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 16/9/2013 1:31:55 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
I would pay to see jonson eating balls and assholes.

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Post #: 629
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 16/9/2013 1:37:40 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8205
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

I would pay to see jonson eating balls and assholes.


You only need to watch him eating one of Leicester City's pies to do that...

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