Register  |   Log In  |  
Sign up to our weekly newsletter    
Follow us on   
Search   
Forum Home Register for Free! Log In Moderator Tickets FAQ Users Online

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville

 
Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [On Another Note...] >> News and Hot Topics >> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:34:59 AM   
paul_ie86


Posts: 11422
Joined: 4/1/2007
From: Chelsea Hotel #2
quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

Okay, hyperbole for the case of argument maybe... but this argument is not about offsetting good acts against bad acts and that's exactly my point. The Hitler example is actually quite useful in context. No it doesn't redeem him as a person, but if he had done charity work it's still good... even if he is the most evil bastard to ever walk the planet. That is literally all I'm saying. Good acts are good acts.


Even considering elab's point that the work with youth charities may have been done to get access to children?

< Message edited by paul_ie86 -- 1/10/2012 12:35:17 AM >


_____________________________

My Group Project's facebook page. Please like

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 31
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:38:02 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Hahahahahaha


Thanks for the intelligent input.


No worries - thanks for the Hitler thing!


Thanks for not understanding the argument. Or 'thing', whichever you prefer.


Thanks for the memories!


Again, fantastic intelligent rebuttal there.


You know why your arguement doesn't work? Because if this turns out to be true, he never ever tried to say sorry, or hand himself over to be punished by the law. He spent decades making money, and yes, having further contact with children (and as elab has said to you a number of times now, that counters his good deeds).

He did not demostrate remorse and if true, left a whole host of victims to see him go from success to success.

So no, he doesn't get a pass on the charity stuff, because it is built on lies and zero feeling of regret or remorse.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 32
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:39:00 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
I look forward to you responding with Urgh again.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 33
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:40:12 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

Ugrh.

You guys still can't grasp this concept can you? (Not aimed at elab)

Look, I am not saying whatever whichever person has done isn't evil... I am just saying the good that they have done IS and always will be good. What part of that concept can't you understand?

All you seem to be interested in doing is comparing good actions against bad actions. Whereas all I'm saying is, in memory, good actions should not cease to be good actions because of whatever bad actions. Genuinely aghast you cannot see that.

Utterly bizarre.


I do understand you, what with me not being an idiot and all but what you are saying sounds ridiculous. Of course a good deed is a good deed but a mass murderer is still a mass murderer. Nothing that person has done or can do will ever change that.

_____________________________

Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 34
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:57:59 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000
Even if he was a horrible bastard paedophile, I would still shake his hand at the work he did. Sorry. I'm afraid we shall very much have to agree to disagree.


You would, even if you knew for a fact he was a horrible bastard paedophile? I'd have to refrain myself from punching him.

_____________________________

Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 35
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:59:43 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000
For goodness sake, I'm well aware mass murder is mass murder! You really are all completely missing the point here.


No I am not missing your point, I just don't agree with your point. There's a difference.


_____________________________

Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 36
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:03:12 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan4

You know why your arguement doesn't work? Because if this turns out to be true, he never ever tried to say sorry, or hand himself over to be punished by the law. He spent decades making money, and yes, having further contact with children (and as elab has said to you a number of times now, that counters his good deeds).

He did not demostrate remorse and if true, left a whole host of victims to see him go from success to success.

So no, he doesn't get a pass on the charity stuff, because it is built on lies and zero feeling of regret or remorse.



But all that elab has said is pure hypothesis... I see the point validly and completely understand it context of somebody like Vanessa George, but none of us know anything about Jimmy Saville beyond this announced ITV documentary. What is being implied here is that he worked with children a lot - that must mean he did that to get access to them? I must be confusing this place with The Sun comments section, sorry. Just as easy as somebody can make that argument, you can also make the argument that he may indeed have just been a good person and wanted to help others. Again, pure speculation.




You miss the bit where I said "if this turns out to be true"?

And yes - it would cast a shadow over his work with children, given that if he felt remorse and handed himself into the law, he would not have been allowed to be near them.

And again, he may have done charity work - but how do you measure that against the pain of those he hurt? Can you measure it? I would say no. What those people (and again, if this is true) saw was a man who damaged them, get lauded as a hero by society when they knew the truth. A truth he was not willing to admit.

So it does scrub a lot of that out frankly. Plenty of examples out there of people who have committed a serious crime, gone to prision and ended up doing good works. While forgiveness is a word I may not use, it is at least recognised they are trying to seek redemption.

No where do I see that, in this case (once again, if true)



< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 1/10/2012 1:05:20 AM >


_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 37
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:06:53 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000
I would have liked see like to see him punished for his crimes of course and if it was my child I would probably want to see him hung - but yes, call me a hippy twat whatever you like, I would still shake his hand on the charity work he's done.


Ah, but would you have shaken the hand of a charity worker who abused our child and you knew they had done so?

_____________________________

Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 38
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:22:28 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Fair enough. I don't get it but the argument has went on long enough.

I will say, though, it seems to me that the fact they do charity work could be to hide what they are really like. That or to convince themselves they are good people despite doing bad things. If that is the case, then the charity work is cancelled out anyway as it is all lies. If that is the case.

_____________________________

Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 39
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 2:27:05 AM   
gazpop


Posts: 2512
Joined: 26/6/2010
From: 666 Godwin Street, Naziland
So much to say but I feel the argument is fading out, and that's probably no bad thing! I could've really gone to town with some of the bat-shit crazy stuff some people were spouting though!
RIP this thread (until the next 'story' comes out)

_____________________________

Yeah, that's real fine expensive gear you brought out here, Mr. Hooper.'Course I don't know what that bastard shark's gonna do with it-might eat it I suppose. Seen one eat a rockin' chair one time. Hey chieffy, next time you just ask me which line to pull

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 40
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 2:33:16 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: gazpop
I could've really gone to town with some of the bat-shit crazy stuff some people were spouting though!


Pffffft, what a cop out!

Ha, just kidding, best just letting it lie.

_____________________________

Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to gazpop)
Post #: 41
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 2:53:03 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7940
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
I would say fuck the handshake and give whoever it was a swift kick in the balls, but that's just me.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 42
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 7:51:09 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4314
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000
I would have liked see like to see him punished for his crimes of course and if it was my child I would probably want to see him hung - but yes, call me a hippy twat whatever you like, I would still shake his hand on the charity work he's done.


Ah, but would you have shaken the hand of a charity worker who abused our child and you knew they had done so?


Again call me out on this as much as you like, but yes... I genuinely would. It would probably be the most awkward handshake ever but if that person had made a positive difference to the lives of others I couldn't argue with it I'm sorry. I would want them to serve a sentence in jail but I genuinely wouldn't wish to take away the acknowledgement for the good they have done.

I have very strong principles with things like that. Maybe even a flaw, I don't know.

Sorry y'all.


That is one of the stupidest things I have ever read on this forum, and that's saying something. "You abused my child, you evil bastard...but hey you participated in a series of charity bake-offs for Great Ormonds so I'm going to shake your hand anyway". That does not make any sense. Although I imagine you could be saying it simply to try and save face after having exhausted any logical justification for your argument with your absurd Hitler analogy.

Yes, a good deed is a good deed that may have helped someone. The deed itself does not get undone by subsequent actions of the person responsible. But the motivations and sincerity of the altruism is called into question, and the person's character is what could prove to become undone, as opposed to the effect of the good deeds themselves. But offering a handshake would reveal a moral ambivalence on your behalf as well, Jon. To offer another analogy it would be like accepting drug money for a hospital. It wouldn't matter that people may have died, that the money may be tainted with innocent blood, as long as the money goes to doing good then it doesn't matter, you would turn a blind eye. Some different lives at the hospital may be saved, but it would be an ultimate hipocrisy.

And the Hitler thing. Oh, dude. The idea that you might want to "acknowledge" any altruism prior to the slaughter of millions is not only nonsensical, but insulting. You should do the honourable thing and retract it because it has rendered your attempts to justify your feelings as obselete.

Edit: Sorry to perpetuate the argument but I felt compelled to comment on this horseshit.


< Message edited by DancingClown -- 1/10/2012 7:53:04 AM >


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 43
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 10:35:53 AM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6295
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
There was a very interesting interview with Esther Rantzen on the radio this morning.  Unlike most of the contributors to the debate, she had already seen the forthcoming ITV documentary (thanks to her position with Childline).  Her assessment was "the jury is no longer out" - according to her, the allegations of the accusers are entirely believable and corroborate a lot of what was already suspected.  What also came out of today's radio discussion was that 2 girls made accusations of abuse while Saville was still alive, but the police wouldn't take them forward because, it was suggested, Saville was a very powerful figure.  It was also cited as the reason that the Newsnight investigations never saw the light of day.  Now whether that referred to his high public profile from his charitable donations and TV work, or whether it insinuated something a bit more clandestine (was he a Mason?) wasn't made clear, but if true, it adds a fair degree of support to the current allegations.

And sorry jon, but as much as I respect your right to hold the opinion, if proven to be true then any good that Saville may have done would be vastly outweighed by this.  I'm sure Hitler did some good deed at some time in his life, but that didn't stop him being a mass-murdering fuckwit.  And regardless of the millions he raised for charity, if it is proven that Saville behaved inappopriately with just one child and not only showed no remorse but (as it is being alleged) actively worked to ensure that his deeds were covered up, then yes, those charitable works are forever tainted.

< Message edited by sharkboy -- 1/10/2012 10:36:17 AM >


_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 44
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:11:28 AM   
King_Bard

 

Posts: 6300
Joined: 25/9/2006
Utterly bizarre argument. Shaking the hand of someone who abused your child?

Even if this person had single handily solved world poverty I would still have to be chained to the wall to stop me ripping his head off if he abused my child.

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 45
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:18:17 AM   
Larry of Arabia

 

Posts: 7576
Joined: 28/2/2007
From: Turtle Island

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

I would loathe the person who abused my child, of course. I would want them to feel the full weight of punishment. But if they had made a difference to peoples' lives in the weight that Jimmy Saville had, I would not do the reactionary thing and write that off. I can assure you I'm not trying to save face in this argument I genuinely believe good is good.




Eh... did you read this? v

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Yes, a good deed is a good deed that may have helped someone. The deed itself does not get undone by subsequent actions of the person responsible
. But the motivations and sincerity of the altruism is called into question, and the person's character is what could prove to become undone, as opposed to the effect of the good deeds themselves. But offering a handshake would reveal a moral ambivalence on your behalf as well, Jon.


As DC says, it's not the the good deeds people are writing off, its the kudos to the child abuser they're writing off.


_____________________________

"Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt."


(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 46
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:29:50 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4314
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

Failing to see the argument and clearly disagreeing with my own personal point of view, you have decided to jump aboard some righteous crusade and essentially accuse me of insulting the millions who died in the holocaust in that sentence. Nice.


Now just hang on a bloody minute please. I'm not failing to see your argument. I see your argument, I understand what you're trying to say, but your argument is flawed and misguided, that is my opinion on your argument. Claiming that we "just don't understand" is rather childish. I'm not jumping on a band-wagon, I felt honestly dismayed and puzzled by what you have been saying, so I had to comment. If I agreed with you, I would say so. But what you said is an insult and demonstrates either a spectacular naivety on your behalf or a genuine lack of perspective. If you realise why it was somewhat insulting then man-up and say it was a mistake, a foolish analogy that with all the best intentions came across as crass and half-witted. That was your doing, Jon.

quote:

I personally see a good deed as a good deed, as I have explained several times above. I do not see that as nonsensical. I see that as right in a civilised society.


Yes, a good deed is a good deed. But a good deed doesn't necessarily make a bad person good. Altruism can be self-serving, especially if it is intended to mask some evil-doing. You don't seem to grasp that. If Savile allegedly did abuse those kids then how can we applaud his charity work with any sincerity. Yes, I'm sure the money raised improved many lives, but that cannot excuse his behaviour or lessen our dismay at what he allegedly did. Good deeds can still be made with bad intentions. It's simple. Not all of the time obviously.

quote:

So yes, in some hypothetical world - I would want to see Hitler get the full force of retribution possible for his heinous crimes, but I would not write off any hypothetical good deed he might have done prior.


What do you mean by "not write off"? This is where the confusion is. Yes, someone may have benefitted from the good deed, but at the same time it doesn't redeem his character. Right? If "yes" then what are we arguing about?

quote:

I can assure you I'm not trying to save face in this argument I genuinely believe good is good.


So do we all. But you're refusing to accept that sometimes a good deed, whilst beneficial for someone (like with my hospital analogy), can be used to mask something sinister. You don't seem to think that matters, as long as the deed itself is "good". That's where the flaw in your argument is. If someone used to be a bad person, and then dedicated their lives to doing good as penance, then I think we would all find that more acceptable.

quote:

You clearly all disagree with that point of view, fine. But don't try and weasel any kind of righteous argument here. I have never, ever said that an evil act isn't an evil act. Not once. So please don't imply that I have. That really is insulting.


You've been implying it yourself, Jon. Nothing to do with us.

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 47
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:56:24 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
Yeah, the basic point should surely be as (I think it was Elab) pointed out, his charity work could just have been a cover to protect the public image and to gain access to victims. And these allegations have been lingering around for a lot of years, anyone remember that faked HIGNFY transcript? Also, there's a lot of other unpleasant stories attached to the man. I'm not saying anything as silly as no smoke without fire, I'm just saying that there's a history of these claims. This just seems to be the most direct.

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 48
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:59:40 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

And it regard the blurring example what if he did all of this charity work to get close to those he wanted to abuse... well, to me that's a Sun reader horror story isn't it. An absolute worst case scenario. Absolutely baseless at this moment in time. Yes, there have been examples of people apparently doing 'good' when their real intentions are far more sinister. And I'm sure there are examples of people doing 'good' to somehow mask whatever bad they have done. But these are knee jerk hypothetical panics aren't they. Nothing more. Public opinion at its worst.

I have to be contrarian here because I do not like public speculation. Unless you can clear cut prove to me that Jimmy Saville raised 40 million for charity to get at underage girls, I am going to have to ignore that argument completely as it would be ignored in a court of law. I'm sorry, but it is entirely muddied public interpretation. Completely devoid of base.


No, it's a response to your claims that the charity work should still stand. It's common sense to say that if it's proven that the man abused children, his charity work shouldn't be a reason to say anything nice about him, because it could simply have been part of his cover. You really are making yourself look ridiculous here.

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 49
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:26:29 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4314
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

I just do not like public opinion as a moral judgement. None of us know anything about what Jimmy Saville may or may not have done to underage girls aside from what his documentary is alleged to imply. But we do know, factually, that he did a lot of good. I am saying that shouldn't change regardless of what comes to light. You all disagree. Fair enough.


You see, that's where the problem lies. He did a lot for childrens' charities. These allegations involve children. If his wrongdoing - with children - was fully substantiated and proved that would still not alter your praise for his work...with children...? Do you not understand how bizarre that sounds?

quote:

And it regard the blurring example what if he did all of this charity work to get close to those he wanted to abuse... well, to me that's a Sun reader horror story isn't it. An absolute worst case scenario. Absolutely baseless at this moment in time. Yes, there have been examples of people apparently doing 'good' when their real intentions are far more sinister. And I'm sure there are examples of people doing 'good' to somehow mask whatever bad they have done. But these are knee jerk hypothetical panics aren't they. Nothing more. Public opinion at its worst.


I'm fairly sure that we all understand that this is speculation until the truth - if there is any - outs. But this is not where the argument lies, despite your attempts to divert its focus.You yourself are indulging in just as much hypothetical conjecture as anyone else just by participating in the thread.

Okay, here's the deal. Let's assume he's guilty:

1 - We all acknowledge that he raised a lot of money for charity, money that would've improved people's lives, and that their lives will stay improved regardless.
2 - We all acknowledge that if found guilty somehow then the charity work does not negate the evil of the alleged crimes and that he is still a "bad" person. Right? We all seem to agree with this, you included, Jon.

But you need to clarify your position. What exactly are you saying if you agree with the above two statements? I think it's the notion that you would still "shake his hand" for the charity work, despite knowing what he's capable of, that has the rest of us scratching our heads in disbelief, because that is an act of forgiveness in a way.

< Message edited by DancingClown -- 1/10/2012 12:30:35 PM >


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 50
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:27:40 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
Look at this statement you made

quote:

Again call me out on this as much as you like, but yes... I genuinely would. It would probably be the most awkward handshake ever but if that person had made a positive difference to the lives of others I couldn't argue with it I'm sorry. I would want them to serve a sentence in jail but I genuinely wouldn't wish to take away the acknowledgement for the good they have done.


Now if you'd said you could separate morality from art, I'd agree with you. If you said you'd think he was evil, but hoped it wouldn't be too much of a blow to the people who his charity helped, I'd understand. But right there you're saying you could look at a man who raped your child and shake his hand. Forget about how it makes you feel, think about how much of a betrayal that would be to your child, to know that their father had shook the hand of someone who abused them. That's not being principled. It's being ridiculous.

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 51
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:34:56 PM   
King_Bard

 

Posts: 6300
Joined: 25/9/2006
Whether he did the charity work for good or not is personally not the point for me. If a person is found out to have abused a young child than this person is the lowest of the low. Their good deeds for me would count for nothing.

I think your argument is ridiculous and just plain insulting to anyone who has been abused or is the parent of a abused child.

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 52
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:39:14 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4314
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
And look at this statement you made:

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

But that aside, I affirm my belief that doing good is doing good. Even if Hitler had done a charity run and raised some money before he became an evil bastard I would commend him for that. Off setting acts of good against acts of evil seems bizarre to me.



It is insulting. And it is moronic. "Good morning, Mr Hitler, I was going to condemn you for slaughtering millions but ever since I heard about that fun-run back in '32 I'm starting to see you in a more positive light! Although...it's not you I'm really commending, because you're an evil cunt, it's the act itself, which was good, although it wouldn't have happened without you...an evil cunt...erm..."



_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 53
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:40:12 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6295
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
For me, I guess it boils down to the fact that if even 100 of that 40 million was raised through an event orchestrated by Saville to facilitate access to underage girls, then that casts a very deep, dark and permanent shadow over the remaining 39,999,900.  I don't think anyone would deny that the charity money he raised made some very real changes for the better.  But if the allegations of ulterior motive have any substance then you've got to ask yourself at what cost?  What causes me some degree of concern is that there have been long-standing allegations that his involvement in some of the charities was specifically to allow him to satisfy certain of his sexual cravings, which, if true, would see to indicate some form in this area.

_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 54
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:05:38 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8327
Joined: 31/7/2008
How much money do I have to give to charity to get my neighbour to put up with me killing his dog? The little fucker's been barking since 6am and with the hangover I'v got I'm seriously considering going through with it.

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 55
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:16:13 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8327
Joined: 31/7/2008
It was a joke. Shake the sand out of your vagina.

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 56
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:19:18 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7940
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

It was a joke. Shake the sand out of your vagina.



Never heard this phrase used before. I like it.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 57
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:19:35 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

How much money do I have to give to charity to get my neighbour to put up with me killing his dog? The little fucker's been barking since 6am and with the hangover I'v got I'm seriously considering going through with it.

Give me 50 and you can do what you like with it, I'll absolve you of your sins.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 58
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:21:31 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4314
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

Moronic. Lovely. Ok, this is becoming petty. I haven't once said I would see Hitler or Jimmy Saville in a more positive light. Not once. I just do not wish to undo any good they may have done, completely hypothetically in Hitler's case.


For the love of god you are just arguing with yourself here. How is condeming their characters for what they did going to "undo" their supposed good? What do you even mean by "undo" anyway? It won't just magically vanish. But the presence of a lesser, suppposed decent act is not a "get out of being a vile cunt" free-card.

quote:

ou don't agree with my belief that good is good. Fair enough.


What the hell are you talking about!!!! Of course we agree that "good is good". The benefits of a good act may remain intact despite any further machinations of the do-gooder...it is your attitude towards the person in question that is under the spotlight here for fuck's sake!! You said you would commend the act....but the act cannot be achieved without the actions of the person involved...so the person involved - be it Hitler, Saville or fucking Genghis Khan - will be part of your commendation. Jesus fucking Christ, this is such flailing, gibbering bollocks!!!

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to jon5000)
Post #: 59
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:27:41 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54677
Joined: 1/10/2005
This discussion is maybe getting a tad off-piste and the tone is ratcheting up a little? Maybe a deep breath? And if you disagree with Jon at least remember he's entitled to his opinion just like all of us. For every Gordon Wilson there are probably the most of is who'd punch the perpetrator in the face. I'd be the latter tbh.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 1/10/2012 1:28:16 PM >


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [On Another Note...] >> News and Hot Topics >> RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Movie News|Empire Blog|Movie Reviews|Future Films|Features|Video Interviews|Image Gallery|Competitions|Forum|Magazine|Resources
Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.125