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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville

 
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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 2/5/2013 11:07:42 AM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7987
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Careful now. Phubbs will probably accuse Hall of jumping on the bandwagon against himself.


Let's not bicker and argue over who molested who. It was 46 years ago, that nine year old should totally be over it by now...

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Post #: 511
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 2/5/2013 11:20:04 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7932
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
Get the courts to call off the Roache case and tell them they're wasting their time. C'mon people it's been almost 50 years.

Seriously, Phubbs, just leave this place and never come back.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 2/5/2013 11:21:56 AM >


_____________________________

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Films watched in 2013

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Post #: 512
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 2/5/2013 11:41:11 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
The posts are there to be addressed - let's keep it to that rather than telling people to leave the Board, please.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 513
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 2/5/2013 3:45:00 PM   
Brooksy84


Posts: 451
Joined: 25/1/2010
As I've seen other people question on twitter, why the hell has a man who has admitted abusing 13 girls, three of them under 11 years old, been granted bail?
From his solicitor:
"He is not a man easily moved to self pity, but he is only too aware that through his actions his disgrace is complete".

Utterly nauseating.

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Post #: 514
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 2/5/2013 7:15:33 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3194
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Careful now. Phubbs will probably accuse Hall of jumping on the bandwagon against himself.




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Invisible Text for SPOILERS: "color=#F1F1F1" Spoiler text "/color" , then change the quotation marks to square brackets.


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Post #: 515
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 2/5/2013 11:56:13 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

As I've seen other people question on twitter, why the hell has a man who has admitted abusing 13 girls, three of them under 11 years old, been granted bail?
From his solicitor:
"He is not a man easily moved to self pity, but he is only too aware that through his actions his disgrace is complete".

Utterly nauseating.


It seems odd. Perhaps (excessive) leeway because of his age and the fact he (finally) admitted his guilt.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Brooksy84)
Post #: 516
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 2:50:15 AM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
Joined: 3/4/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper
before you decided to get all mysoginistic - I'm not even going to bother with that





Misogynistic?
That's a bit of an odd accusation right there isn't it: a person who dislikes women, strongly prejudiced against women.
Just because I said a jury could possibly favour a (possible) female rape victim? and because I think people could/might be jumping on the bandwagon with this whole thing.




< Message edited by Phubbs -- 3/5/2013 3:39:28 AM >

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 517
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 4:47:51 AM   
Cloud Cuckoo


Posts: 408
Joined: 7/2/2013
From: Mind your own
Been scrolling through this thread in the midst of an insomnia episode, and this stood out:

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Fuckwits ... seem to sign it off with a 'if they're guilty I hope they rot' style comment, but how the fuck can we identify them as guilty if a victim doesn't come forward and an investigation is not carried out? Do I think those accused should be named in public to face judgement by the press and the fuckwitted Facebook loving public? No, the accused should have some form of anonymity until proven guilty. The public at large are a depressing, braindead bunch when it comes to stuff like this, seemingly getting high on their self righteousness by posting endless 'Like if you think this paedo should die' pictures all over the fucking shop. Boils my piss.


Porntrooper, I could not agree more. How can the notion of 'innocent until proven guilty' exist in a country where our media dangles suspects before the salivating mob, purposefully whipping the latter up into a frenzy? The 'Great British public' (talk about a misnomer) condemn those suspected by the police and media - not necessarily in that order - before a scrap of evidence has been submitted for judgment. Look at social media; how is a jury member supposed to remain completely impartial when ill-formed, baseless opinions are everywhere they look? Such influences are unjust. So what should we do? Should jurors be quarantined when the crime is discovered?!

As soon as an arrest is publicised people are baying, loudly and graphically, for blood. It is mob rule. People seem to forget that the justice system exists for a reason: everyone deserves a fair trial. But thanks to the incendiary tabloids and their ilk, no one seems to get one.

Well, that's my tuppence worth. (I haven't the energy or will to tackle everything dreadful Phubbs said, though fuck knows I want to.)

_____________________________

In Thom we trust.

(in reply to porntrooper)
Post #: 518
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 5:47:18 AM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
Joined: 3/4/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloud Cuckoo

Been scrolling through this thread in the midst of an insomnia episode, and this stood out:

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Fuckwits ... seem to sign it off with a 'if they're guilty I hope they rot' style comment, but how the fuck can we identify them as guilty if a victim doesn't come forward and an investigation is not carried out? Do I think those accused should be named in public to face judgement by the press and the fuckwitted Facebook loving public? No, the accused should have some form of anonymity until proven guilty. The public at large are a depressing, braindead bunch when it comes to stuff like this, seemingly getting high on their self righteousness by posting endless 'Like if you think this paedo should die' pictures all over the fucking shop. Boils my piss.


Porntrooper, I could not agree more. How can the notion of 'innocent until proven guilty' exist in a country where our media dangles suspects before the salivating mob, purposefully whipping the latter up into a frenzy? The 'Great British public' (talk about a misnomer) condemn those suspected by the police and media - not necessarily in that order - before a scrap of evidence has been submitted for judgment. Look at social media; how is a jury member supposed to remain completely impartial when ill-formed, baseless opinions are everywhere they look? Such influences are unjust. So what should we do? Should jurors be quarantined when the crime is discovered?!

As soon as an arrest is publicised people are baying, loudly and graphically, for blood. It is mob rule. People seem to forget that the justice system exists for a reason: everyone deserves a fair trial. But thanks to the incendiary tabloids and their ilk, no one seems to get one.

Well, that's my tuppence worth. (I haven't the energy or will to tackle everything dreadful Phubbs said, though fuck knows I want to.)


Actually I fully agree with this and is the reason why I said a jury COULD be swayed into making a decision that benefits the person making allegations, because of the things you have just said.


< Message edited by Phubbs -- 3/5/2013 5:52:14 AM >

(in reply to Cloud Cuckoo)
Post #: 519
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 6:53:26 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20116
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper
before you decided to get all mysoginistic - I'm not even going to bother with that





Misogynistic?
That's a bit of an odd accusation right there isn't it: a person who dislikes women, strongly prejudiced against women.
Just because I said a jury could possibly favour a (possible) female rape victim? and because I think people could/might be jumping on the bandwagon with this whole thing.






In this instance perhaps misogynist is the wrong word - but your assertion is nevertheless highly sexist. It implies a treatment or consideration by others based entirely upon a person's gender, forgoing the facts of the individual case at hand. The idea that something is considered simply because somebody is female is sexist. That's sort of how that works.

Although the tone in the initial post made on this matter perhaps implied you were scathing of or condemning juries for apparently being swayed by female defendants because of their sex.



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Post #: 520
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 8:42:43 AM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2603
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper
before you decided to get all mysoginistic - I'm not even going to bother with that





Misogynistic?
That's a bit of an odd accusation right there isn't it: a person who dislikes women, strongly prejudiced against women.
Just because I said a jury could possibly favour a (possible) female rape victim? and because I think people could/might be jumping on the bandwagon with this whole thing.



I don't think it's an odd accusation. I think the comments you made did demonstrate a prejudice against women by insinuating they were simply out for the money. Do I think you're a mysoginist, probably not, but I believe your comments certainly had that leaning, hence me saying they were. Some people may not interpret them that way, as Homer said, he's viewing them more as 'sexist', I don't see a huge distance between the two if I'm honest. But if it makes you feel better, I'll re-word it.....

"before you decided to get all sexist - I'm not even going to bother with that"

The general point still stands, your comments were insulting and stupid and don't deserve this much counter argument. I find it interesting that you only pick up on a single part of my posts, you seem to happily ignore every other point, and I suspect it's because you have no way to counter them without further exposing yourself as a fool on this thread.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloud Cuckoo

The 'Great British public' (talk about a misnomer) condemn those suspected by the police and media - not necessarily in that order - before a scrap of evidence has been submitted for judgment. Look at social media; how is a jury member supposed to remain completely impartial when ill-formed, baseless opinions are everywhere they look? Such influences are unjust.


Actually I fully agree with this and is the reason why I said a jury COULD be swayed into making a decision that benefits the person making allegations, because of the things you have just said.



So, this bolded part of Clouds post was why you said this??


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Dare I say a female might have the better chance of getting the jury on her side in a case like this?


Because youre quote looks like sexist bullshit, Clouds sounds like a thought out and reasonable comment that has fuck all to do with gender.

_____________________________

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Post #: 521
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 9:41:49 AM   
Cloud Cuckoo


Posts: 408
Joined: 7/2/2013
From: Mind your own
I can cheerfully confirm my points had fuck all to do with gender!

And I do not wish to be associated with Phubbs' remarks (despite his quotation) as I find his views abhorrent in the extreme!

Happy Friday!

_____________________________

In Thom we trust.

(in reply to porntrooper)
Post #: 522
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 9:46:48 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloud Cuckoo

Been scrolling through this thread in the midst of an insomnia episode, and this stood out:

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Fuckwits ... seem to sign it off with a 'if they're guilty I hope they rot' style comment, but how the fuck can we identify them as guilty if a victim doesn't come forward and an investigation is not carried out? Do I think those accused should be named in public to face judgement by the press and the fuckwitted Facebook loving public? No, the accused should have some form of anonymity until proven guilty. The public at large are a depressing, braindead bunch when it comes to stuff like this, seemingly getting high on their self righteousness by posting endless 'Like if you think this paedo should die' pictures all over the fucking shop. Boils my piss.


Porntrooper, I could not agree more. How can the notion of 'innocent until proven guilty' exist in a country where our media dangles suspects before the salivating mob, purposefully whipping the latter up into a frenzy? The 'Great British public' (talk about a misnomer) condemn those suspected by the police and media - not necessarily in that order - before a scrap of evidence has been submitted for judgment. Look at social media; how is a jury member supposed to remain completely impartial when ill-formed, baseless opinions are everywhere they look? Such influences are unjust. So what should we do? Should jurors be quarantined when the crime is discovered?!

As soon as an arrest is publicised people are baying, loudly and graphically, for blood. It is mob rule. People seem to forget that the justice system exists for a reason: everyone deserves a fair trial. But thanks to the incendiary tabloids and their ilk, no one seems to get one.

Well, that's my tuppence worth. (I haven't the energy or will to tackle everything dreadful Phubbs said, though fuck knows I want to.)


Actually I fully agree with this and is the reason why I said a jury COULD be swayed into making a decision that benefits the person making allegations, because of the things you have just said.



You said swayed to woman, And all the stats on rape trials, the prominence of the trope of false accusations, your own victim blaming, demonstrate quite forcefully that the issue of partiality is against the woman/victims in rape trials. Your baseless assertion flew in the face of facts and was incredibly sexist - and when it was raised further up you ignored the posts.

You may have short term memory issues about your post (and earlier victim blaming ones in this thread), but it's probably best not to assume other posters have the same problem. Or piggyback on intelligent posts to ludicrously claim they prove your problematic one.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Phubbs)
Post #: 523
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 11:25:15 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7932
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

Although the tone in the initial post made on this matter perhaps implied you were scathing of or condemning juries for apparently being swayed by female defendants because of their sex.



And to me, that reads as Phubbs jumping to the erroneous conclusion that the jury lacks the capacity to rationally process this case. And as someone who has served as juror, that pisses me off to no end.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 3/5/2013 11:37:50 AM >


_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 524
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 12:01:39 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4190
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
I await Phubbs' thoughtful and measured response to the points raised with bated breath.

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Post #: 525
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 1:38:20 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6274
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
I've noticed a lot of questions on FB and other social media sites questioning why it took some victims so long to complain, as if there was some kind of statute of limitations on rape and sexual abuse. The Independent recently published a letter from one of Stuart Hall's victims to which I think I shall refer these people in future and suggest that they read it then kindly shut the fuck up. Here it is, and if you can read it without being filled with anger, sorrow and heartwrenching agony at what the poor girl went through, then you're a stronger person than I am.

quote:

This is the letter sent to The Independent's Yasmin Alibhai-Brown from one of Stuart Hall's victims. The text has been edited for legal reasons and to avoid identification.

"I write to tell you that Stuart Hall is another television presenter who you can investigate.

I speak from personal experience; he groomed and then sexually exploited me when I was a young teenager in the 1970s.

As he did it to me so I would imagine that he did it to others.

Stuart was a presenter on Look North, a local BBC news programme. He was invited by the head of my school to come and present the prizes one year, and presented to me, among others. He exchanged a few words with me on the stage, at a microphone. I took my prize and left the hall. A while later a message came from the head teacher; would I go back to the hall, as Stuart had asked to see me. He had told the head that he was impressed by me and wondered if I would have permission to visit the local BBC studios; he thought that a girl like me could have a future in television journalism. My head teacher was naïve enough to agree, after consulting with my mother. I, of course, was thrilled and flattered.

And that is how it starts. What drew him to me? Later he told me it was my voice and manner. (I was a shy, intelligent, studious, pretty girl, destined for university and a professional career.) I was young for my years and easy meat for a man like him. To have a man of my father's age take a benevolent interest in me seemed wonderful.

Why haven't I written about this before? For several reasons – the first of which is shame. A girl who is groomed and then sexually exploited does not consider herself raped. Stuart made me complicit in my own abuse. He seemed kind and interested in me, while sexually exploiting a girl more than 25 years younger than he. It's a story as old as the hills; girls go back and then feel themselves to be as guilty as the man. As I became older, I was able to consider the position more carefully, particularly after years of therapy.

Why didn't I report it years ago? I was afraid for my reputation, my family and career. Stuart was well known and popular, particularly in that sport bloke-ish milieu which is not thoughtful about sexual predation. He appeared protected by being well known and well connected. I saw what the gutter press was like, and didn't want strangers going through my bins cross-questioning and photographing my family and friends, demonising me, traumatising my family.

Why am I writing about this now? Because I was enraged when I saw that he had received the OBE this year. Because finally it seems our culture is thinking differently about sexual predators. Because a wise friend pointed out that I really don't need to worry about [appearing] dishonourable in sending this information anonymously – everything that Stuart did to me was dishonourable. Because once again I saw that oily pretentious perma-tanned creature on the television and had to leave the room. (How do I tell my husband why I want to scream, vomit and throw a brick through the television screen?)

The furore over Jimmy Savile has spurred me on. I cannot bear to think of the lionising obituaries that may await the man who caused me so much shame, and I cannot bear the thought that he will believe that he got away with what he did to me, and most probably many others.

So what was it that happened? The head and my mother accepted the invitation, and I went off alone to the studios. (Alone! What a green light that must have given him!) The first and then the second time, all was circumspect, public and above board. Then I was invited back again. It was the end of the working day, and Stuart took me to his dressing room, where he gave me plenty of champagne before having sex with me. (In his dressing room, in the BBC studios.) I still can't bear champagne and the memory of his crepey skin makes me shudder. And yet I went back for more. He took me to other places.

Another time [I was taken] to his friend's house a long way from home. His friend had given him the key to his house, as he and his wife were often away in London, but Stuart giggled that [he] would be horrified if [he] knew how old I was. I remember being moved by the wonderful view from the windows. I also remember that Stuart knew his way around the house and the kitchen well, pulling a frying pan from a drawer below the stove for a fry-up. The frying pan had been left in the pan drawer filled with dripping and the oddness of that stuck in my mind. Apparently the friend complained later to Stuart about the state of the sheets, he had to change them quickly before his wife saw them. I was never aroused, so there was a lot of blood. Somehow Stuart got a prescription for the contraceptive pill, and gave that to me. My compliance in all this used to disgust me – but the adult woman can now have compassion for the young girl.

Stuart told me laughingly that there were a number of middle-aged women locally who gave him filthy looks when they saw him as they knew the things he did, but they weren't prepared (as my mother and I later weren't) to go public with their knowledge.

I remember a number of other details; how proud he was of his car, and how he liked to boast about that too. Was it a Jensen? I seem to remember that it was. He also talked a lot about his expensive collection of clocks.

Why am I so angry? Because what he did was to spoil my sense of myself, my relationship with myself, my feeling of who I was for many years. His actions filled me shame and secrecy, and had a terrible effect too on my relationship with my mother.

He took advantage of my youth, naïveté, loneliness, and manipulated me into having sex. I didn't seek him out, he sought and groomed me. I didn't find him sexually attractive – quite the reverse – that crepey skin, the vanity, the perma-tan. But I craved what he gave me in other ways. Attention, and a sense of being wanted, something that was signally missing elsewhere in my life. And I felt then that he was affectionate with me. How it makes my skin crawl to write that. Sadly the world is too full of girls (and boys) who are looking for love, and find too late that they have found sex with a predator instead. These children are everywhere – not just in children's homes. What can we do to protect them from the Stuarts?

I have blanked out so much of that time and have great gaps in my memory. If asked, I wouldn't be able to say how often we had sex, how often we met after he had groomed me. I suspect not often, I can only remember those three times. But it might have been much more often. I could not stand in court, all these years later, and be cross-questioned, and convinced on all the details.

But what I can say is that it did happen, that he was a sexual predator of young girls – of me. It disgusts me that he sought me out at a school prize-giving, a place where I should have been safe; the wolf invited into the fold. (All the CRB checking in the world will not protect a child from the Stuarts of this world.)

It disgusts me that he has the OBE, and that his friend gave him a place to hide, a platform for aggrandisement. It disgusts me to see him on television, to hear him on the radio. It would disgust me to see fawning obituaries for him. I hope that somehow he can come to know the damage he has caused, to feel some guilt."



_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 526
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 2:24:15 PM   
emogeek


Posts: 21804
Joined: 15/4/2006
From: Satan's Trampoline
That really is a harrowing, horrible read.

Hopefully, she can take some solace in the fact that he has been exposed before the glowing Savile style obituaries. Sadly, she can never recover what he took from her.



_____________________________

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(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 527
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 4:08:50 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
Joined: 3/4/2012
quote:



So, this bolded part of Clouds post was why you said this??



quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Dare I say a female might have the better chance of getting the jury on her side in a case like this?



You missed off the end part of my comment there...conveniently


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Dare I say a female might have the better chance of getting the jury on her side in a case like this? especially with all the other stars getting in trouble?.


So I shouldn't of used the word 'female', and should of explained better, but what the other poster said is pretty much what I meant, hence the second part of my comment. Should of said 'person'.


quote:

You said swayed to woman, And all the stats on rape trials, the prominence of the trope of false accusations, your own victim blaming, demonstrate quite forcefully that the issue of partiality is against the woman/victims in rape trials. Your baseless assertion flew in the face of facts and was incredibly sexist - and when it was raised further up you ignored the posts.

You may have short term memory issues about your post (and earlier victim blaming ones in this thread), but it's probably best not to assume other posters have the same problem. Or piggyback on intelligent posts to ludicrously claim they prove your problematic one.


You got all that from what I said huh, geez wow! I COULD say something here but I won't



quote:

And to me, that reads as Phubbs jumping to the erroneous conclusion that the jury lacks the capacity to rationally process this case. And as someone who has served as juror, that pisses me off to no end.


A jury is just regular members of public, just average everyday working folk, could be a anyone, anyone can have their own views/ideas/issues/hang ups etc...about all manner of things which they bring with them. Plus in a case like this there probably is no clear cut hard evidence so its all about whose story is more believeable, who can make the jury side with them.

< Message edited by Phubbs -- 3/5/2013 4:20:39 PM >

(in reply to porntrooper)
Post #: 528
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 4:16:21 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
But you didn't say 'person' - did you mean 'person'? If so, why say 'women' - which implies something entirely different - then ignore the posts querying you on it?

If you said something you didn't mean, fair enough - just say that. But don't try and backtrack and rewrite discussions.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 3/5/2013 4:17:00 PM >


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Phubbs)
Post #: 529
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 4:19:53 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
Joined: 3/4/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

But you didn't say 'person' - did you mean 'person'? If so, why say 'women' - which implies something entirely different - then ignore the posts querying you on it?

If you said something you didn't mean, fair enough - just say that. But don't try and backtrack and rewrite discussions.


Probably typed it cos the case is about a female making the allegation and I just wrote it that way at the time without thinking. If it was a man making the allegation I would have typed 'male' without thinking, nothing suspicious about it I assure you.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 530
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 4:25:44 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
But that doesn't even make sense in that sentence.

quote:

Dare I say a female might have the better chance of getting the jury on her side in a case like this?


Using 'better chance' implies one thing has a better chance than another. So there must be at least two subjects. So if it's 'someone' rather than a particular gender, who/what do they have a better chance than?



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ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 531
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 4:28:22 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs


quote:

And to me, that reads as Phubbs jumping to the erroneous conclusion that the jury lacks the capacity to rationally process this case. And as someone who has served as juror, that pisses me off to no end.


A jury is just regular members of public, just average everyday working folk, could be a anyone, anyone can have their own views/ideas/issues/hang ups etc...about all manner of things which they bring with them. Plus in a case like this there probably is no clear cut hard evidence so its all about whose story is more believeable, who can make the jury side with them.


I have to actually agree here. I have heard some genuine horror stories about jurors (from people who work directly in that area) and the decisions they make, and it is true that in complex cases some are genuinely intellectually and emotionally incapable of coping. Sadly a lot see it as a burden rather than a civic duty and just want a verdict to get out of there. A jury is very much a Russian roulette situation and some are great with people who look at the evidence and make informed decisions, others are car crashes where they just utilise their opinion and what the person looks look to make a conclusion.

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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 5:09:14 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7932
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From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
Jesus, Sanch, I fucking hate it when you make sensible posts. It doesn't align with my Phubbs is wrong argument.

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Post #: 533
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 3/5/2013 8:30:06 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
Just mostly wrong.

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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 6/5/2013 11:32:09 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3194
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester
Jimmy Tarbuck arrested now, according to BBC News.

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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 7/5/2013 8:33:19 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18001
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
It seems to be a case that no relatively famous figure from the 70's will not be arrested (although as I understand the Tarbuck one just allegations again and no charges at this time).

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Post #: 536
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 7/5/2013 10:14:34 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
DO NOT speculate/link names of people to a paedophile/abuse investigation. That is libel, and the post will be immediately removed.

Phubbs, yours isn't the first post of this nature removed. Please use some common sense.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 537
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 7/5/2013 10:16:45 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

It seems to be a case that no relatively famous figure from the 70's will not be arrested (although as I understand the Tarbuck one just allegations again and no charges at this time).


It's odd because like Hall and Roache this is being said to not be Yewtree - and the non-Yewtree stuff has tended to charge.

Perhaps they are hoping something similar to Hall will occur - the police have been clear that that case was finally made because his name was made public. He might have gotten away with his foul activities based on the original charges, but had to admit he was a what he was because of the other cases that then had the courage to come forward.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 538
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 8/5/2013 5:43:16 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20116
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
CRUNT, as has just been specified by elab, don't give other names as speculation, however you couch it.

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Post #: 539
RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 9/5/2013 10:16:42 AM   
Hobbitonlass

 

Posts: 11918
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Westeros
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22459815

quote:


A prominent barrister specialising in reproductive rights has called for the age of consent to be lowered to 13.
Barbara Hewson told online magazine Spiked that the move was necessary in the wake of the Savile scandal to end the "persecution of old men".


WTF?  Yeah, because those poor old men are having such a hard time of it at the moment.....   Speechless!

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