Register  |   Log In  |  
Sign up to our weekly newsletter    
Follow us on   
Search   
Forum Home Register for Free! Log In Moderator Tickets FAQ Users Online

RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing!

 
Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [On Another Note...] >> News and Hot Topics >> RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 30/9/2012 1:46:08 AM   
steffols


Posts: 7688
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Jungleland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella


I imagine this is going to throw up plenty of background noise now that they have been found and court proceedings start. I don't mean to be cynical but we've learnt a bit more about Megan's homelife this week and it is not exactly the perception of comfortable. It took over 48 hours to locate her genetic father despite his daughter's face being slapped all over every national newspaper and television station for nearly two days, she has her stepfather's name but according to several news outlets he doesn't even live in the family home and her relationship with her mother is one that has been reportedly going downhill for some time.


And all of that has anything to do with the story why?


_____________________________

It's midnight in Manhattan, this is no time to get cute, it's a mad dog's promenade,
So walk tall, or baby don't walk at all.

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 61
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 30/9/2012 2:45:42 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17190
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: steffols


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella


I imagine this is going to throw up plenty of background noise now that they have been found and court proceedings start. I don't mean to be cynical but we've learnt a bit more about Megan's homelife this week and it is not exactly the perception of comfortable. It took over 48 hours to locate her genetic father despite his daughter's face being slapped all over every national newspaper and television station for nearly two days, she has her stepfather's name but according to several news outlets he doesn't even live in the family home and her relationship with her mother is one that has been reportedly going downhill for some time.


And all of that has anything to do with the story why?



It has plenty to do with the story. There's going to be a lot of speculation and intrigue over the coming months as to why these two eloped together, on both sides of the fence, same as there is with the majority of these cases. Take how much has already been "revealed" this week, and I say that as loosely as possible, for obvious reasons.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to steffols)
Post #: 62
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 30/9/2012 10:14:28 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54576
Joined: 1/10/2005
But that just sounds like promulgating some pretty nasty gossip that's nobodys' business, no doubt indulged in by certain types of media outlets who realise they have to back off now because the girl is 15 and they can't do some press freedom shit to try and get access to her.

This is not part of the story, it's just unacceptable press intrusion into a family's life. The only part of the story should now be the prosecution of the teacher but, sadly, I doubt it - people who get off on the kind of detail above will no doubt start one of those count-down clocks till they can start harassing the kid when she turns 16.




_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 63
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 30/9/2012 10:22:57 AM   
steffols


Posts: 7688
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Jungleland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella


quote:

ORIGINAL: steffols


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella


I imagine this is going to throw up plenty of background noise now that they have been found and court proceedings start. I don't mean to be cynical but we've learnt a bit more about Megan's homelife this week and it is not exactly the perception of comfortable. It took over 48 hours to locate her genetic father despite his daughter's face being slapped all over every national newspaper and television station for nearly two days, she has her stepfather's name but according to several news outlets he doesn't even live in the family home and her relationship with her mother is one that has been reportedly going downhill for some time.


And all of that has anything to do with the story why?



It has plenty to do with the story. There's going to be a lot of speculation and intrigue over the coming months as to why these two eloped together, on both sides of the fence, same as there is with the majority of these cases. Take how much has already been "revealed" this week, and I say that as loosely as possible, for obvious reasons.


The only thing we need to know about this story is that she felt like she had to run away and her teacher gave her that opportunity - ruining his life in process. I've been following this story on the BBC news website all week and knew nothing about the above quoted until I read it in your post. Which proves to me that it isn't an important part of anything. As Elab says, its nasty gossip being pedalled by the redtops to keep the story rolling.


_____________________________

It's midnight in Manhattan, this is no time to get cute, it's a mad dog's promenade,
So walk tall, or baby don't walk at all.

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 64
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 30/9/2012 10:55:45 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8222
Joined: 31/7/2008
Yeah, Megan's home life (or presumptions about it) are utterly irrelevant. She's not the focus of police attention, the teacher is. We already know everything that's relevant about her - she's a 15 year old kid who became infatuated with a teacher. That's so common as to be a cliche, the difference here is that the teacher in question was weak enough to reciprocate and whisk her away to another country. If they feel they have to go around manufacturing and hinting at conclusions about motivations from people's backgrounds, perhaps they would be better advised to focus on Forrest.

(in reply to steffols)
Post #: 65
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 30/9/2012 11:28:44 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18135
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
The sad thing is that the problems this child is going to experience are only just beginning and I hope the press has the decency to pull back from the whole thing now. There is every possibility this relationship may resume when she is 18 as has occurred in other such improper relationships and if it does at least she shall be in a beter place to make the decision. Hoopefully at some point she will see this is for her good as it is unlikley that she recognises that at this time.

_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 66
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 12/3/2013 11:34:15 PM   
menotbug

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 13/10/2006
The teacher has gone to jail.

Is there any evidence Megan was harmed? If not how can they justify sending him to jail? 15 year old's aren't children, they are young adults who want to have sex. The age of consent is 15 in France and Sweden, there is nothing special about the number 16. Ages of consent are arbitrary. The irony is if she was a year older she could attend an orgy and no one would care because it would all be legal...



(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 67
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 12/3/2013 11:42:58 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8222
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: menotbug
If not how can they justify sending him to jail?


Because he knowingly broke the law. It's not complicated.

(in reply to menotbug)
Post #: 68
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 13/3/2013 12:00:32 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4204
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
quote:

ORIGINAL: menotbug

The teacher has gone to jail.

Is there any evidence Megan was harmed? If not how can they justify sending him to jail? 15 year old's aren't children, they are young adults who want to have sex. The age of consent is 15 in France and Sweden, there is nothing special about the number 16. Ages of consent are arbitrary. The irony is if she was a year older she could attend an orgy and no one would care because it would all be legal...



A few things. Yes, 15 year-olds aren't children, but neither are they adults. Statutory rape is one thing, but there's also the fact that he absconded with her. Being the adult he bears full responsibility for the situation and should take his punishment. He knew what he was doing was wrong.


< Message edited by clownfoot -- 13/3/2013 10:47:04 AM >


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to menotbug)
Post #: 69
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 13/3/2013 12:04:01 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54576
Joined: 1/10/2005
It's fair comment on the post - but could we for once avoid auditing the poster please?

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 70
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 13/3/2013 12:08:38 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4204
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
What do you mean by "auditing the poster"?

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 71
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 13/3/2013 12:10:55 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54576
Joined: 1/10/2005
I mean checking when they joined and suggesting they're creepy - I didn't mean the comment to be opaque in any way.

It might help to remember that there are 10s of 1000s of IDs out there that might only have used the site for eg competitions without ever popping into the forum before.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 72
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 13/3/2013 12:14:30 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4204
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Okay, fair enough. But the comment was a bit creepy in itself.


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 73
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 13/3/2013 12:17:06 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54576
Joined: 1/10/2005
No issue with the posts as fair comment, and I agree completely with yours. How far do you know down the ages once you start? 15yos OK now - but, you know, 14yos pretty much the same etc etc

Irrespective of anything else, he was the adult, it was his responsibility as the adult and he broke the law. And ran away to hide, therefore pretty clearly knowingly.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 74
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 13/3/2013 12:41:00 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54576
Joined: 1/10/2005
Where's the report of the outcome of the case? Has he been convicted or is this still on remand?

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 75
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 13/3/2013 6:59:25 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4204
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
I actually can't find anything about this in the news anywhere, the last article I saw dates back to January, so why this has been brought up now I'm not quite sure. As far as I knew he was still awaiting trial.

< Message edited by DancingClown -- 13/3/2013 7:00:08 AM >


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 76
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 13/3/2013 9:36:04 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54576
Joined: 1/10/2005
That's what I found when I had a look as well. I'd assumed from the post above that it must have gone to trial.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 77
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 15/3/2013 11:59:42 AM   
Invader_Ace


Posts: 1584
Joined: 31/7/2008
Yeah, still in Custody awaiting trial in the summer.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9827463/Teacher-Jeremy-Forrest-pleads-not-guilty-to-abduction.html

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 78
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 15/3/2013 3:53:35 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17190
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Where's the report of the outcome of the case? Has he been convicted or is this still on remand?


It's all gone very quiet hasn't it? For several weeks it was arguably one of the biggest news stories of the previous year (and it's got some serious competition there!) but since he was returned to the UK and charged we've heard sod all, and I'm sure it's not for lack of trying on behalf of the red-top tabloids, this is just the kind of 'sexy, dangerous' story they love! Maybe now the manhunt is over and the intellectual stuff is actually about to start, they've all got bored with it!

quote:

Yeah, still in Custody awaiting trial in the summer.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9827463/Teacher-Jeremy-Forrest-pleads-not-guilty-to-abduction.html


Not a lot in that report is there, and the whole 'child can't be named for legal reasons' bit did make me chuckle a tad, I realize they have to go through the motions, but that feels a little pointless at this stage.

I'll be intrigued to see how they work an abduction case against him, there is a substantial variety to how the CPS can prosecute under the title of child abduction, but given the circumstances it will be a good discussion point when this trial gets underway in the summer.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 79
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 15/3/2013 6:16:54 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54576
Joined: 1/10/2005
I'm not sure that is the case actually - didn't the permission to name the girl get removed once she was safe back and now it's back to the normal protections for a case involving someone underage? I seem to recall something about restrictions going back into place.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 80
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 15/3/2013 6:20:59 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17190
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I'm not sure that is the case actually - didn't the permission to name the girl get removed once she was safe back and now it's back to the normal protections for a case involving someone underage? I seem to recall something about restrictions going back into place.


Yeah that is most likely the reason, I just meant in more of a light-hearted manner, there's no need for guesswork as to who the said girl is, although that might be why the media have had little to no access to her, there were a few snaps of her after she'd returned to the UK but absolutely nothing since and I wouldn't put it past the red-top press for trying.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 81
Name omitted and her teacher still missing! - 20/6/2013 9:20:59 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18135
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/20/jeremy-forrest-guilty-child-abduction

He has been found guilty of abduction (unsurprisingly).

_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 82
RE: Name omitted and her teacher still missing! - 20/6/2013 9:37:00 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17190
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Now look, I'm not defending Jeremy Forrest or his actions, he should rightly go to prison, for statutory rape in my opinion to say the least which is what I would most likely face a charge of if I had sex, albeit it consenting, with a 15 year-old girl and she chose to report me to the Police. But child abduction? She has openly discussed in the evidence given that she initially pursued Forrest and that she also made the first several moves of contact (she obtained his phone number through "a friend") and she has said she encouraged the relationship, and willingly left the country with him, reports even a substantial part of it was her idea.

Now, yes, she's 15, she's a "child" but let's not kid ourselves here. 15 year-old girls can be far more manipulative than some of the reactionaries I've seen today in regards to this case than they are giving them credit for. Don't be fooled into thinking she didn't know what she was doing, obviously we don't know the ins and outs of this case but given what I have read into the background I am quite suspicious as to much of her behaviour, as for Enough Abuse UK calling him a "paedophile", I think it would be wise for them to actually go and look up the definition of a paedophile before making such comments, especially likening it to sexual assault, they managed to cheapen every rape victim in this country this afternoon with that god-awful public statement they released, in my opinion.

Forrest is a criminal and a moron, he abused his position of trust, although to a degree of grooming I am not 100% sure, he looks and sounds naive to me too, maybe it's all an act but I don't know, she's certainly no angel of innocence though. He rightly should go to prison and I can only hope he realizes now what complete idiot he's been and what distress and pain his and Megan's actions brought to both their families and everyone who knew them, but I just wish some people would not see this so black and white and that is not a defence of his actions.

I also don't think the headteacher of the school should be "sacked" either, there was an ongoing investigation, he was due to be suspended, just because he's a teacher doesn't mean you can storm in there when the facts aren't clear and start suspending people because of some rumours, which they were until that point. The Police were involved in the investigation too and up until the point of their disappearance were unclear as well as to how much was actually going on, they'd spoken to Megan and to her parents (which is interesting given at the time they fled the country, her mother claimed she was angry at the school because no-one had informed her of any suspicions with regards to her daughter possibly being involved in an inappropriate relationship with her teacher) and to Forrest and his colleagues and felt much of it had been blown out of proportion, obviously they were wrong but read the details of the case, these two were very secretive and phones had even been seized and analyzed, basically there is only so much anyone can do, they could not predict for what was going to happen and as per usual the ambulance-chasers in this country want another 50 people, who actually, mainly, did nothing wrong, to be fired first before they feel "justice can be served."

The Enough Abuse UK spokesman used the term "minions" to describe the teachers at the Sussex school today as well, personally I think that's disgraceful and I think she should be made to apologise for her insensitive and incorrect comments. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but at least make it an informed one!



_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 83
RE: Name omitted and her teacher still missing! - 20/6/2013 10:22:28 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4204
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

Now look, I'm not defending Jeremy Forrest or his actions, he should rightly go to prison, for statutory rape in my opinion to say the least which is what I would most likely face a charge of if I had sex, albeit it consenting, with a 15 year-old girl and she chose to report me to the Police. But child abduction? She has openly discussed in the evidence given that she initially pursued Forrest and that she also made the first several moves of contact (she obtained his phone number through "a friend") and she has said she encouraged the relationship, and willingly left the country with him, reports even a substantial part of it was her idea.

Now, yes, she's 15, she's a "child" but let's not kid ourselves here. 15 year-old girls can be far more manipulative than some of the reactionaries I've seen today in regards to this case than they are giving them credit for. Don't be fooled into thinking she didn't know what she was doing, obviously we don't know the ins and outs of this case but given what I have read into the background I am quite suspicious as to much of her behaviour, as for Enough Abuse UK calling him a "paedophile", I think it would be wise for them to actually go and look up the definition of a paedophile before making such comments, especially likening it to sexual assault, they managed to cheapen every rape victim in this country this afternoon with that god-awful public statement they released, in my opinion.

Forrest is a criminal and a moron, he abused his position of trust, although to a degree of grooming I am not 100% sure, he looks and sounds naive to me too, maybe it's all an act but I don't know, she's certainly no angel of innocence though. He rightly should go to prison and I can only hope he realizes now what complete idiot he's been and what distress and pain his and Megan's actions brought to both their families and everyone who knew them, but I just wish some people would not see this so black and white and that is not a defence of his actions.



Not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. You seem to be veering into the murky realm of victim blaming here, also of attempting to endow a young girl with an adult's aptitude for machination. The worst you can accuse her of is being selfish and stupid. Manipulative implies that you consider him to be the vulnerable one and that she took advantage of him. That is bollocks. Whether or not she pursued him is irrelevant. Ultimately he was the one with the power, she was at his mercy, (emotionally and physically) not vice versa. To suggest otherwise is just a little bit creepy.


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 84
RE: Name omitted and her teacher still missing! - 20/6/2013 10:40:24 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17190
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

Now look, I'm not defending Jeremy Forrest or his actions, he should rightly go to prison, for statutory rape in my opinion to say the least which is what I would most likely face a charge of if I had sex, albeit it consenting, with a 15 year-old girl and she chose to report me to the Police. But child abduction? She has openly discussed in the evidence given that she initially pursued Forrest and that she also made the first several moves of contact (she obtained his phone number through "a friend") and she has said she encouraged the relationship, and willingly left the country with him, reports even a substantial part of it was her idea.

Now, yes, she's 15, she's a "child" but let's not kid ourselves here. 15 year-old girls can be far more manipulative than some of the reactionaries I've seen today in regards to this case than they are giving them credit for. Don't be fooled into thinking she didn't know what she was doing, obviously we don't know the ins and outs of this case but given what I have read into the background I am quite suspicious as to much of her behaviour, as for Enough Abuse UK calling him a "paedophile", I think it would be wise for them to actually go and look up the definition of a paedophile before making such comments, especially likening it to sexual assault, they managed to cheapen every rape victim in this country this afternoon with that god-awful public statement they released, in my opinion.

Forrest is a criminal and a moron, he abused his position of trust, although to a degree of grooming I am not 100% sure, he looks and sounds naive to me too, maybe it's all an act but I don't know, she's certainly no angel of innocence though. He rightly should go to prison and I can only hope he realizes now what complete idiot he's been and what distress and pain his and Megan's actions brought to both their families and everyone who knew them, but I just wish some people would not see this so black and white and that is not a defence of his actions.



Not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. You seem to be veering into the murky realm of victim blaming here, also of attempting to endow a young girl with an adult's aptitude for machination. The worst you can accuse her of is being selfish and stupid. Manipulative implies that you consider him to be the vulnerable one and that she took advantage of him. That is bollocks. Whether or not she pursued him is irrelevant. Ultimately he was the one with the power, she was at his mercy, (emotionally and physically) not vice versa. To suggest otherwise is just a little bit creepy.



My point was more geared towards some of the reactions I've seen to the case, as you can see from several of my points. I don't consider him vulnerable in the context that some may consider her, but I do consider him naive and I think the fact he thought he could get away with fleeing the country goes some way to proving this, for what was, presumably, a well-educated man it's an incredibly naive and stupid decision. Of course it is relevant she pursued him, the whole point of the evidence given was in relation to how these events came about, is it really pure to think in this day and age that once she was a year older and 16 that suddenly she is no longer at his power and dispense, both emotionally and physically?

I also don't appreciate the "creepy" comment, I don't really see how this bears any relevance, and I do hope you are not suggesting I think the act of a sexual, or otherwise, relationship with a 15 year-old girl is acceptable and not a crime, because as you can clearly see I state otherwise, it's just I'm choosing to explore other areas of the case that also concern me as I don't think it was as open and shut as some have tried to paint it to be.


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 85
RE: Name omitted and her teacher still missing! - 20/6/2013 11:47:43 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4204
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

I also don't appreciate the "creepy" comment, I don't really see how this bears any relevance, and I do hope you are not suggesting I think the act of a sexual, or otherwise, relationship with a 15 year-old girl is acceptable and not a crime, because as you can clearly see I state otherwise, it's just I'm choosing to explore other areas of the case that also concern me as I don't think it was as open and shut as some have tried to paint it to be.



No, I just find the tendency to try and shift blame and the onus of responsibility onto a child, regardless of her "previous" behaviour, generally distasteful. The charges brought against him make perfect sense, there's no labyrinthe of conspiracy here. She may be selfish and manipulative - as far as a young girl can be - but he was the one with the power over the situation. To suggest that he might have been helpless to resist softens the severity of his actions. Whether you mean to or not it's akin to blaming the abused for the abuse. And some of the language and phrases you used in your post did imply that.

quote:

She has openly discussed in the evidence given that she initially pursued Forrest and that she also made the first several moves of contact (she obtained his phone number through "a friend") and she has said she encouraged the relationship, and willingly left the country with him, reports even a substantial part of it was her idea.


The whole thing could've been her idea, it doesn't matter. She's a child. He was the one in charge. Like I said she is, from what we can tell, guilty of being nothing more than selfish and stupid. "I was powerless to resist!" he might plead pathetically. Why dignify such a feeble and cowardly defence by suggesting that he might have a point?

quote:

Now, yes, she's 15, she's a "child" but let's not kid ourselves here. 15 year-old girls can be far more manipulative than some of the reactionaries I've seen today in regards to this case than they are giving them credit for. Don't be fooled into thinking she didn't know what she was doing, obviously we don't know the ins and outs of this case but given what I have read into the background I am quite suspicious as to much of her behaviour


How can you be suspicious of her behaviour? Clearly she was wrong, she was foolish, and while she may have had a clear notion of what she wanted from him she wasn't mature enough to fully understand the implications of her actions and exactly how much she was hurting her loved ones. We can't let the extreme reactions of commentators and their agendas muddle that.

< Message edited by DancingClown -- 20/6/2013 11:50:19 PM >


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 86
RE: Name omitted and her teacher still missing! - 21/6/2013 12:09:28 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17190
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
quote:

No, I just find the tendency to try and shift blame and the onus of responsibility onto a child, regardless of her "previous" behaviour, generally distasteful. The charges brought against him make perfect sense, there's no labyrinthe of conspiracy here. She may be selfish and manipulative - as far as a young girl can be - but he was the one with the power over the situation. To suggest that he might have been helpless to resist softens the severity of his actions. Whether you mean to or not it's akin to blaming the abused for the abuse. And some of the language and phrases you used in your post did imply that.


quote:



She is responsible for her own actions, she did make decisions herself, like pursuing a relationship she knew to be both illegal and morally wrong, if you goand read the evidence you can clearly see this. At no point did I mention anything about a conspiracy, I also did not describe him as helpless, I described him as naive in the course of his actions, I have already clearly stated that he has abused his position of trust and she also was not "abused", sexual abuse is forced molestation against the victim's will. This is much like those that have described him as a paedophile, which he is not, as is very stated by the law itself. He should have been charged with statuory rape in my opinion but that is not a form of abuse, that is having consenting sex with a girl you know to be under the age of 16 in this country.

quote:

The whole thing could've been her idea, it doesn't matter. She's a child. He was the one in charge. Like I said she is, from what we can tell, guilty of being nothing more than selfish and stupid. "I was powerless to resist!" he might plead pathetically. Why dignify such a feeble and cowardly defence by suggesting that he might have a point?


He didn't plead anything at all, he chose not to give any evidence in court and no information from his statements have been released so I'm not attempting to dignify a defence on his behalf, you are skewing and twisting my words as to somehow give the impression I am defending him, which I clearly stated at the top of my first reply. I am giving my opinion, I don't know what he has or hasn't said and whether or not any of it ties in with the points I'm making. She is a child by the stature of law yes but that really wasn't my point, it was that her actions and decisions she made during the course of this do reflect upon her, not to the same degree, as they do him.

quote:

How can you be suspicious of her behaviour? Clearly she was wrong, she was foolish, and while she may have had a clear notion of what she wanted from him she wasn't mature enough to fully understand the implications of her actions and exactly how much she was hurting her loved ones. We can't let the extreme reactions of commentators and their agendas muddle that.


I was referring to the actions in the lead up to her disappearance. We don't know she wasn't mature enough to make these decisions, again is that defined by the leap of months from her 15th birthday to her 16th birthday is it? The assumption here is because she is considered a child by law she is therefore a child undoubtedly, in every aspect and that nothing else can be questioned whatsoever. I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at it from a number of different angles and like I said already he's a criminal and idiot and he's rightly going to prison, I just don't agree with the perception of what he is and the way that this has come about as you do.

It will be interesting to see his sentence of course given that Stuart Hall, who did commit sexual abuse against minors and was convicted this past week received 15 months in prison, Jeremy Forrest could face up to 11 years.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 87
RE: Name omitted and her teacher still missing! - 21/6/2013 12:28:24 AM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3209
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella
We don't know she wasn't mature enough to make these decisions, again is that defined by the leap of months from her 15th birthday to her 16th birthday is it?


GF - she did testify in front of a jury on her teacher's behalf, and she wasn't able to convince them that she was mature enough. What more do you want?

_____________________________

Invisible Text for SPOILERS: "color=#F1F1F1" Spoiler text "/color" , then change the quotation marks to square brackets.


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 88
RE: Name omitted and her teacher still missing! - 21/6/2013 12:34:14 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17190
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella
We don't know she wasn't mature enough to make these decisions, again is that defined by the leap of months from her 15th birthday to her 16th birthday is it?


GF - she did testify in front of a jury on her teacher's behalf, and she wasn't able to convince them that she was mature enough. What more do you want?


I don't think any of us know what was or wasn't said in court, and I haven't seen anything to say that she testified "on her teacher's behalf", I know she testified via video link that she had pursued and encouraged the relationship, but that's all I've seen. I don't think it was necessarily done "on his behalf", it was a statement that she was always going to give.

The article says he "relied on her testimony" but given the way this court case was inevitably going to go I can hardly say I'm surprised by that, but like I said earlier he should rightly go to prison for what he's done, I just think there are other angles to look at it from.

< Message edited by Goodfella -- 21/6/2013 12:37:29 AM >


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Darth Marenghi)
Post #: 89
RE: Name omitted and her teacher still missing! - 21/6/2013 7:39:57 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4204
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

She is responsible for her own actions, she did make decisions herself, like pursuing a relationship she knew to be both illegal and morally wrong, if you goand read the evidence you can clearly see this. At no point did I mention anything about a conspiracy, I also did not describe him as helpless, I described him as naive in the course of his actions, I have already clearly stated that he has abused his position of trust and she also was not "abused", sexual abuse is forced molestation against the victim's will. This is much like those that have described him as a paedophile, which he is not, as is very stated by the law itself. He should have been charged with statuory rape in my opinion but that is not a form of abuse, that is having consenting sex with a girl you know to be under the age of 16 in this country.


Yes, I know. My point was that despite making the decisions she did the onus of responsibility falls squarely on him because he had the power over what transpired. Not her. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous. I also didn't say he "abused" her, I simply drew an analogy with the attitudes some people adopt in blaming victims by accusing them of being culpable through behaviour and therefore were "asking" for it.

quote:

He didn't plead anything at all, he chose not to give any evidence in court and no information from his statements have been released so I'm not attempting to dignify a defence on his behalf, you are skewing and twisting my words as to somehow give the impression I am defending him, which I clearly stated at the top of my first reply. I am giving my opinion, I don't know what he has or hasn't said and whether or not any of it ties in with the points I'm making. She is a child by the stature of law yes but that really wasn't my point, it was that her actions and decisions she made during the course of this do reflect upon her, not to the same degree, as they do him.


I'm not saying he literally plead, ya silly sod, I painted a picture of what his defence might have been based on the way you were emphasising that she was manipulative. How a defence of "I couldn't help myself, she's an evil seducer" is the kind of defence proffered by all kinds of perverts who are convinced that children posess an adult's sexual awareness. Yes, her actions do reflect badly on her, for being selfish and foolish, but so what? Why are you so seemingly obsessed with these aspects of her behaviour? To what end are you speculating about the extent of her "manipulation" when you agree with his being charged and sentenced? Are you making a statement about the age of consent? Do you think it should be lowered?

quote:

We don't know she wasn't mature enough to make these decisions, again is that defined by the leap of months from her 15th birthday to her 16th birthday is it? The assumption here is because she is considered a child by law she is therefore a child undoubtedly, in every aspect and that nothing else can be questioned whatsoever.


Well, we're just going to have to disagree about the maturity issue. Besides I said that despite being aware of what she wanted to do with him she surely didn't appreciate the gravity of the situation and how it would affect others besides herself. That shows a lack of maturity and a teenager's typical self-absorption. And personally I would say the same thing if she was sixteen or seventeen. I take it you're suggesting that elements of her behaviour should be taken into account when he's being sentenced, yes? Because I don't think they should have any bearing whatsoever, regardless of how determined she was to pursue him. She's a 15 year-old girl, not a scheming maneater.

quote:

I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at it from a number of different angles and like I said already he's a criminal and idiot and he's rightly going to prison, I just don't agree with the perception of what he is and the way that this has come about as you do.


What's the point of looking at it from different angles? You seem to agree that legally it's an open and shut case, yes, so what's the benefit of trying to analyse her behaviour leading up to the disappearance? And what is my perception of what he is? I didn't say he was technically a pedophile, but he is an abuser in the way he abused her trust and exploited the situation. And before anyone says "yeah, but so did she!" just remember that he is the adult, supposedly. He had the power to control the situation, not her, despite her levels of self-awareness, or lack thereof. And I don't have a different perception about how the situation came about to you. Where we differ is that I don't think it's fair or relevant to start trying to scrutinise her behaviour, because for what other purpose would you do that if not to try and downplay the severity of his actions and suggest that he be treated more leniently? You say you agree he's a criminal, so what's the problem? I understand that people yelling "hang the pedophile" and "blame the teachers" has rightly pissed you off but don't let it muddle your thinking. Unless, like I said above, you actually do think there's a wider debate to be had about the age of consent. Because otherwise your comments about her seem weird and nebulous.


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 90
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [On Another Note...] >> News and Hot Topics >> RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


 
Movie News  |  Empire Blog  |  Movie Reviews  |  Future Films  |  Features  |  Video Interviews  |  Image Gallery  |  Competitions  |  Forum  |  Magazine  |  Resources
 
Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.125