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Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 2:05:09 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17364
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9566094/Megan-Stammers-police-release-pictures-of-schoolgirl-and-teacher-on-ferry-as-Interpol-joins-hunt.html

I'm sure posting a link is not really a necessity as unless you've been living under a rock for the past week you'll have heard about this story on the news or the radio, or seen it in the papers, initially when police first confirmed the teenager and her 30 year-old maths teacher were missing it didn't seem to automatically register on the airwaves but since tomorrow it will be a week since they first disappeared it's made headline news and the pair have been on the front of every national newspaper for the past two days.

I'm surprised there's not a thread already and I wondered what everyone's thoughts are?

It's a story that's caught a big portion of public attention and the interest and intrigue has grown as more has been learnt and I think over the last few hours more with regards to the police's reaction, which to a degree has seemed quite timid from an outside prospective and one more of understanding and consideration to the pair rather than one you would usually expect for a manhunt of this nature, it's caught mine because my mum's a teacher and with this kind of thing comes the usual swarm of vipers down on child protection mandates and we get the usual "school's don't do enough to protect kids" kind of crap and also because I've spoken to several people from different walks of life about this and it seems there is some opinion out there that is probably going to be considered very unconventional and in many respects, controversial. Let's just say this isn't your standard 'paedophile case' where the automatic reaction is to give her a homecoming parade and him a long, hard walk to the gallows.

But let me first make it perfectly clear that NO RELATIONSHIP between a 30 year-old man (school-teacher or not) and a 15 year-old girl is acceptable, sexual or non-sexual. I don't care if the only thing he did is hold her hand on a flight home or whether he's performed every sex act under the moon with her and filmed it all, it's despicable and I would expect a man of his presumed intelligence to know better and know he's not going to get away with this. There will be an end-game here and he must surely know his days are numbered, even if he walks back into the country with her and she confirms consent and denies everything else, forget the breach of trust charge he'll face, the media will make sure he sees the inside of an 12 by 8 foot box for a very, very, very long time. Whether he deserves one or not, there won't be any fair trial here.

But......and I say this very tentatively....I'm not buying this grooming, sexual predator image that some of the media have craved to create of him. First off, she's a 15 year-old, yes she's still a child, but she's also a young woman. Just looking at her pictures, and reading some of the stuff she reportedly wrote on social media websites and what her friends have said, she strikes me as a lot more intelligent, sassy and aware than perhaps the Daily Mirror or The Sun would prefer she is. I'm not saying she led him on, and not the other way around, it would be wrong to make any statement, no-one apart from the two know the true ins and outs of who did what first and who led who where and until they're back in the country and questioned apart no-one will but her actions, and his, strike me this was very much a two-way thing and who's to say they aren't "in love"? Yes it's not right at all for a man to bear love and affection down on a minor and I'm not saying it's something I think any man should be able to do, but if they truly believe they are in love and this is the reason they've gone down this path then when they do return (or are brought back) this is going to throw up some horrendous moral dilemmas that are going to have very drawn-out and traumatic effects on their's and their families lives for a very long time. Paedophiles in the sense of the word we all know also don't tend to manipulate their victims as openly as we believe he did then run off to France with them and get caught on CCTV on the ferry acting like a young couple on their fourth date. They do with the child sex ring in Rochdale did. Is he a paedophile? Is he a pervert? Is he a what? I don't know how to answer that question, someone else do it for me, a few of us have spent a long time talking about this today and we still have no idea what bracket to stick him in. Also bear in mind at this point we don't know if they've actually had sexual intercourse? The easy assumption (and the one most news-worthy) is to say they have, but we don't know anything about how far this relationship has actually gone. Friends say they socialised out of school but can't seem to actually confirm anything definite, both their phones were seized last week and no evidence was found and you would assume if e-mails or pictures had been found on either of their computers it would have been reported to the press by now. As for Megan, when I went to school most of the 15 year-old girls in my year 11 were dating older boys, well let's be frank, men. No they weren't as old as 30, but some of them were around 20 and yes several of them were immature infatuations with a boyfriend who drives, earns money and is "cooler" than any other boy in your year. But some of them struck me like Megan is, they were a bit unconventional, alternative themselves. Attractive but not in the popularity contest sense and into things like Nirvana and poetry, and they dug blokes like this Forrest man who is probably far more in touch with young people in his school district than any other teacher there. And they were in relationships in every sense of the word, I don't know if they were having sex or not, you can only hope not but some of it wasn't as "simple" or "teenagers being teenagers" as some parents and older members of the community would have liked to have thought and I can look back on that as a 25 year-old man now and know that my opinion has not changed from them, in fact two of the couples are still together.

The attack on the school she attended and he taught at really irks me too. Apparently two previous sex offenders were employed there. Well they weren't, one was a supply teacher employed by the county who had sexual intercourse with two teenage girls and was sacked and imprisoned upon learning this and the other only had allegations made against them and none were ever proven. Those who know very little about the multi-agency tactics and politics used in dealing with child protection and safety seem to think the school should have automatically suspended Forrest when the hear'say started. Ah, if only it was so easy. It would be any eye-opening experience to stick some of these "child protection activists" in these statement meetings and see just how far they get with it, after all you're innocent until proven guilty in this country regardless of whatever crime we are dealing with and the lengths teachers, the police and social services have to go to and the undeniable proof required to even get a copper to go and knock at a possible culprit's door is indescribable. Those of you already in this area of work probably needn't bothered reading that. And it's exactly the same when a teacher is accused of "fooling around" with a student and in this case it appears that no complaints were actually officially lodged, there seems to be a lot of truncated rumour that "it was common knowledge" and he was under investigation but the police can't seem to confirm anything specific, neither can the school or her friends, it's very easy with hindsight to make calculated judgements about what should have happened then or there. He was set to be suspended a day after he disappeared and that alone is a very difficult procedure for any school to administer especially when they at that point had no actual proof anything was going on (if they did he would have been arrested, forget suspension), he was most likely going to be suspended more than anything for his own security. It may have been at that point that they were going to make Megan's parents aware of the situation and those around her and it would no longer have been right or safe to have him on school premises, let alone teaching her.

There's another party I feel very sorry for in this story, that the media don't seem to be paying too much attention to, and that's Forrest's wife. Married just a year and pregnant I believe, not only is she dealing with the crushing blow of what's happened, the public humiliation must be cutting her apart, I hope for her sake as much as any others and her unborn child that there is a swift resolution to this so she can start putting the shattered pieces of her life back together.

Anyway I'll wrap it up there and open the floor to what others thinking? Of course I close by saying that I hope she is found and brought home soon safely so her family and friends can be spared any more agony, I would plead to him to realise that whatever feelings or emotions are involved in, this trip isn't going to last forever and there's no sunset here.



_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.

Post #: 1
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 2:07:36 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
Ewww.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 2
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 2:09:29 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17364
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Ewww.


That's the kind of response I expect to see in the comments page of The Sun, and it's usually misspelt as well. Come on, give me something better than that.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 3
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 2:09:48 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9566094/Megan-Stammers-police-release-pictures-of-schoolgirl-and-teacher-on-ferry-as-Interpol-joins-hunt.html

I'm sure posting a link is not really a necessity as unless you've been living under a rock for the past week you'll have heard about this story on the news or the radio, or seen it in the papers, initially when police first confirmed the teenager and her 30 year-old maths teacher were missing it didn't seem to automatically register on the airwaves but since tomorrow it will be a week since they first disappeared it's made headline news and the pair have been on the front of every national newspaper for the past two days.

I'm surprised there's not a thread already and I wondered what everyone's thoughts are?

It's a story that's caught a big portion of public attention and the interest and intrigue has grown as more has been learnt and I think over the last few hours more with regards to the police's reaction, which to a degree has seemed quite timid from an outside prospective and one more of understanding and consideration to the pair rather than one you would usually expect for a manhunt of this nature, it's caught mine because my mum's a teacher and with this kind of thing comes the usual swarm of vipers down on child protection mandates and we get the usual "school's don't do enough to protect kids" kind of crap and also because I've spoken to several people from different walks of life about this and it seems there is some opinion out there that is probably going to be considered very unconventional and in many respects, controversial. Let's just say this isn't your standard 'paedophile case' where the automatic reaction is to give her a homecoming parade and him a long, hard walk to the gallows.

But let me first make it perfectly clear that NO RELATIONSHIP between a 30 year-old man (school-teacher or not) and a 15 year-old girl is acceptable, sexual or non-sexual. I don't care if the only thing he did is hold her hand on a flight home or whether he's performed every sex act under the moon with her and filmed it all, it's despicable and I would expect a man of his presumed intelligence to know better and know he's not going to get away with this. There will be an end-game here and he must surely know his days are numbered, even if he walks back into the country with her and she confirms consent and denies everything else, forget the breach of trust charge he'll face, the media will make sure he sees the inside of an 12 by 8 foot box for a very, very, very long time. Whether he deserves one or not, there won't be any fair trial here.

But......and I say this very tentatively....I'm not buying this grooming, sexual predator image that some of the media have craved to create of him. First off, she's a 15 year-old, yes she's still a child, but she's also a young woman. Just looking at her pictures, and reading some of the stuff she reportedly wrote on social media websites and what her friends have said, she strikes me as a lot more intelligent, sassy and aware than perhaps the Daily Mirror or The Sun would prefer she is. I'm not saying she led him on, and not the other way around, it would be wrong to make any statement, no-one apart from the two know the true ins and outs of who did what first and who led who where and until they're back in the country and questioned apart no-one will but her actions, and his, strike me this was very much a two-way thing and who's to say they aren't "in love"? Yes it's not right at all for a man to bear love and affection down on a minor and I'm not saying it's something I think any man should be able to do, but if they truly believe they are in love and this is the reason they've gone down this path then when they do return (or are brought back) this is going to throw up some horrendous moral dilemmas that are going to have very drawn-out and traumatic effects on their's and their families lives for a very long time. Paedophiles in the sense of the word we all know also don't tend to manipulate their victims as openly as we believe he did then run off to France with them and get caught on CCTV on the ferry acting like a young couple on their fourth date. They do with the child sex ring in Rochdale did. Is he a paedophile? Is he a pervert? Is he a what? I don't know how to answer that question, someone else do it for me, a few of us have spent a long time talking about this today and we still have no idea what bracket to stick him in. Also bear in mind at this point we don't know if they've actually had sexual intercourse? The easy assumption (and the one most news-worthy) is to say they have, but we don't know anything about how far this relationship has actually gone. Friends say they socialised out of school but can't seem to actually confirm anything definite, both their phones were seized last week and no evidence was found and you would assume if e-mails or pictures had been found on either of their computers it would have been reported to the press by now. As for Megan, when I went to school most of the 15 year-old girls in my year 11 were dating older boys, well let's be frank, men. No they weren't as old as 30, but some of them were around 20 and yes several of them were immature infatuations with a boyfriend who drives, earns money and is "cooler" than any other boy in your year. But some of them struck me like Megan is, they were a bit unconventional, alternative themselves. Attractive but not in the popularity contest sense and into things like Nirvana and poetry, and they dug blokes like this Forrest man who is probably far more in touch with young people in his school district than any other teacher there. And they were in relationships in every sense of the word, I don't know if they were having sex or not, you can only hope not but some of it wasn't as "simple" or "teenagers being teenagers" as some parents and older members of the community would have liked to have thought and I can look back on that as a 25 year-old man now and know that my opinion has not changed from them, in fact two of the couples are still together.

The attack on the school she attended and he taught at really irks me too. Apparently two previous sex offenders were employed there. Well they weren't, one was a supply teacher employed by the county who had sexual intercourse with two teenage girls and was sacked and imprisoned upon learning this and the other only had allegations made against them and none were ever proven. Those who know very little about the multi-agency tactics and politics used in dealing with child protection and safety seem to think the school should have automatically suspended Forrest when the hear'say started. Ah, if only it was so easy. It would be any eye-opening experience to stick some of these "child protection activists" in these statement meetings and see just how far they get with it, after all you're innocent until proven guilty in this country regardless of whatever crime we are dealing with and the lengths teachers, the police and social services have to go to and the undeniable proof required to even get a copper to go and knock at a possible culprit's door is indescribable. Those of you already in this area of work probably needn't bothered reading that. And it's exactly the same when a teacher is accused of "fooling around" with a student and in this case it appears that no complaints were actually officially lodged, there seems to be a lot of truncated rumour that "it was common knowledge" and he was under investigation but the police can't seem to confirm anything specific, neither can the school or her friends, it's very easy with hindsight to make calculated judgements about what should have happened then or there. He was set to be suspended a day after he disappeared and that alone is a very difficult procedure for any school to administer especially when they at that point had no actual proof anything was going on (if they did he would have been arrested, forget suspension), he was most likely going to be suspended more than anything for his own security. It may have been at that point that they were going to make Megan's parents aware of the situation and those around her and it would no longer have been right or safe to have him on school premises, let alone teaching her.

There's another party I feel very sorry for in this story, that the media don't seem to be paying too much attention to, and that's Forrest's wife. Married just a year and pregnant I believe, not only is she dealing with the crushing blow of what's happened, the public humiliation must be cutting her apart, I hope for her sake as much as any others and her unborn child that there is a swift resolution to this so she can start putting the shattered pieces of her life back together.

Anyway I'll wrap it up there and open the floor to what others thinking? Of course I close by saying that I hope she is found and brought home soon safely so her family and friends can be spared any more agony, I would plead to him to realise that whatever feelings or emotions are involved in, this trip isn't going to last forever and there's no sunset here.




That's a lot of words.

_____________________________

Single Virgin Mod Candidate 2013


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 4
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 2:11:38 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17364
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9566094/Megan-Stammers-police-release-pictures-of-schoolgirl-and-teacher-on-ferry-as-Interpol-joins-hunt.html

I'm sure posting a link is not really a necessity as unless you've been living under a rock for the past week you'll have heard about this story on the news or the radio, or seen it in the papers, initially when police first confirmed the teenager and her 30 year-old maths teacher were missing it didn't seem to automatically register on the airwaves but since tomorrow it will be a week since they first disappeared it's made headline news and the pair have been on the front of every national newspaper for the past two days.

I'm surprised there's not a thread already and I wondered what everyone's thoughts are?

It's a story that's caught a big portion of public attention and the interest and intrigue has grown as more has been learnt and I think over the last few hours more with regards to the police's reaction, which to a degree has seemed quite timid from an outside prospective and one more of understanding and consideration to the pair rather than one you would usually expect for a manhunt of this nature, it's caught mine because my mum's a teacher and with this kind of thing comes the usual swarm of vipers down on child protection mandates and we get the usual "school's don't do enough to protect kids" kind of crap and also because I've spoken to several people from different walks of life about this and it seems there is some opinion out there that is probably going to be considered very unconventional and in many respects, controversial. Let's just say this isn't your standard 'paedophile case' where the automatic reaction is to give her a homecoming parade and him a long, hard walk to the gallows.

But let me first make it perfectly clear that NO RELATIONSHIP between a 30 year-old man (school-teacher or not) and a 15 year-old girl is acceptable, sexual or non-sexual. I don't care if the only thing he did is hold her hand on a flight home or whether he's performed every sex act under the moon with her and filmed it all, it's despicable and I would expect a man of his presumed intelligence to know better and know he's not going to get away with this. There will be an end-game here and he must surely know his days are numbered, even if he walks back into the country with her and she confirms consent and denies everything else, forget the breach of trust charge he'll face, the media will make sure he sees the inside of an 12 by 8 foot box for a very, very, very long time. Whether he deserves one or not, there won't be any fair trial here.

But......and I say this very tentatively....I'm not buying this grooming, sexual predator image that some of the media have craved to create of him. First off, she's a 15 year-old, yes she's still a child, but she's also a young woman. Just looking at her pictures, and reading some of the stuff she reportedly wrote on social media websites and what her friends have said, she strikes me as a lot more intelligent, sassy and aware than perhaps the Daily Mirror or The Sun would prefer she is. I'm not saying she led him on, and not the other way around, it would be wrong to make any statement, no-one apart from the two know the true ins and outs of who did what first and who led who where and until they're back in the country and questioned apart no-one will but her actions, and his, strike me this was very much a two-way thing and who's to say they aren't "in love"? Yes it's not right at all for a man to bear love and affection down on a minor and I'm not saying it's something I think any man should be able to do, but if they truly believe they are in love and this is the reason they've gone down this path then when they do return (or are brought back) this is going to throw up some horrendous moral dilemmas that are going to have very drawn-out and traumatic effects on their's and their families lives for a very long time. Paedophiles in the sense of the word we all know also don't tend to manipulate their victims as openly as we believe he did then run off to France with them and get caught on CCTV on the ferry acting like a young couple on their fourth date. They do with the child sex ring in Rochdale did. Is he a paedophile? Is he a pervert? Is he a what? I don't know how to answer that question, someone else do it for me, a few of us have spent a long time talking about this today and we still have no idea what bracket to stick him in. Also bear in mind at this point we don't know if they've actually had sexual intercourse? The easy assumption (and the one most news-worthy) is to say they have, but we don't know anything about how far this relationship has actually gone. Friends say they socialised out of school but can't seem to actually confirm anything definite, both their phones were seized last week and no evidence was found and you would assume if e-mails or pictures had been found on either of their computers it would have been reported to the press by now. As for Megan, when I went to school most of the 15 year-old girls in my year 11 were dating older boys, well let's be frank, men. No they weren't as old as 30, but some of them were around 20 and yes several of them were immature infatuations with a boyfriend who drives, earns money and is "cooler" than any other boy in your year. But some of them struck me like Megan is, they were a bit unconventional, alternative themselves. Attractive but not in the popularity contest sense and into things like Nirvana and poetry, and they dug blokes like this Forrest man who is probably far more in touch with young people in his school district than any other teacher there. And they were in relationships in every sense of the word, I don't know if they were having sex or not, you can only hope not but some of it wasn't as "simple" or "teenagers being teenagers" as some parents and older members of the community would have liked to have thought and I can look back on that as a 25 year-old man now and know that my opinion has not changed from them, in fact two of the couples are still together.

The attack on the school she attended and he taught at really irks me too. Apparently two previous sex offenders were employed there. Well they weren't, one was a supply teacher employed by the county who had sexual intercourse with two teenage girls and was sacked and imprisoned upon learning this and the other only had allegations made against them and none were ever proven. Those who know very little about the multi-agency tactics and politics used in dealing with child protection and safety seem to think the school should have automatically suspended Forrest when the hear'say started. Ah, if only it was so easy. It would be any eye-opening experience to stick some of these "child protection activists" in these statement meetings and see just how far they get with it, after all you're innocent until proven guilty in this country regardless of whatever crime we are dealing with and the lengths teachers, the police and social services have to go to and the undeniable proof required to even get a copper to go and knock at a possible culprit's door is indescribable. Those of you already in this area of work probably needn't bothered reading that. And it's exactly the same when a teacher is accused of "fooling around" with a student and in this case it appears that no complaints were actually officially lodged, there seems to be a lot of truncated rumour that "it was common knowledge" and he was under investigation but the police can't seem to confirm anything specific, neither can the school or her friends, it's very easy with hindsight to make calculated judgements about what should have happened then or there. He was set to be suspended a day after he disappeared and that alone is a very difficult procedure for any school to administer especially when they at that point had no actual proof anything was going on (if they did he would have been arrested, forget suspension), he was most likely going to be suspended more than anything for his own security. It may have been at that point that they were going to make Megan's parents aware of the situation and those around her and it would no longer have been right or safe to have him on school premises, let alone teaching her.

There's another party I feel very sorry for in this story, that the media don't seem to be paying too much attention to, and that's Forrest's wife. Married just a year and pregnant I believe, not only is she dealing with the crushing blow of what's happened, the public humiliation must be cutting her apart, I hope for her sake as much as any others and her unborn child that there is a swift resolution to this so she can start putting the shattered pieces of her life back together.

Anyway I'll wrap it up there and open the floor to what others thinking? Of course I close by saying that I hope she is found and brought home soon safely so her family and friends can be spared any more agony, I would plead to him to realise that whatever feelings or emotions are involved in, this trip isn't going to last forever and there's no sunset here.




That's a lot of words.


Yeah well I've just finished a 10-hour shift, I have a stinking cold and have two further 10-hour shifts over the next two days so I was in the mood for a bit of writing of course.

This is quite a serious issue and I was actually looking for some genuine responses and opinion so I'd prefer this not to turn into a disabled thread like the ones in OT thanks.

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 5
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 2:16:09 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ
Ah ok, cool. Me and MonsterCat will be on our way then.

_____________________________

Single Virgin Mod Candidate 2013


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 6
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 7:32:33 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4244
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Yes, he is a pedophile. He abused his position of trust and has exercised zero restraint and reason. She is underage, so presuming they've had intercourse that also makes him a rapist, legally if nothing else. No matter how 'willing' she may have appeared to be about this relationship she has been exploited and abused. She is only 15, she is still a child, she is NOT a young woman. Girls develop faster than boys, sure, but she still possesses little of the necessary kind of self-awareness and emotional maturity that is needed in the real world. She is living out a fantasy, and so is he, although being the adult he is supposed to be able to differentiate their fantasy from the reality.

We must be very careful about falling into the trap of victim-blaming, of claiming that she appeared 'older than her years' so therefore this man must've been overpowered by her feminine wiles. Bollocks. That is the excuse of child-rapists and pedophiles everywhere, plus the viewpoint of your average misogynist. She has clearly been very naive, no matter how willing. If this man had an ounce of empathy or dignity he would've stopped this from happening. He is the one with the power in their relationship, not her. She is still a child. And he is a cunt for exploiting her and for abandoning his pregnant wife.

I do feel sorry for her. I have major sympathy for her family and for this man's poor wife. I feel nothing for him because of the suffering that he - yes HE - has caused here. He should be a decent man and bring her home. But decency appears beyond him.

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 7
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 8:08:47 AM   
matty_b


Posts: 14568
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
quote:

she strikes me as a lot more intelligent, sassy and aware than perhaps the Daily Mirror or The Sun would prefer she is


See, that's the bit I don't buy.

Just going from the extracts from Twitter and some other social network site she had an account for, she seemed as self-obsessed, emotionally fragile and immature as most girls that age are.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Mattyb is a shining example of what the perfect Empire Forum member is.


(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 8
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 9:23:22 AM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2926
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella


But......and I say this very tentatively....I'm not buying this grooming, sexual predator image that some of the media have craved to create of him. First off, she's a 15 year-old, yes she's still a child, but she's also a young woman. Just looking at her pictures, and reading some of the stuff she reportedly wrote on social media websites and what her friends have said, she strikes me as a lot more intelligent, sassy and aware than perhaps the Daily Mirror or The Sun would prefer she is. I'm not saying she led him on, and not the other way around, it would be wrong to make any statement, no-one apart from the two know the true ins and outs of who did what first and who led who where and until they're back in the country and questioned apart no-one will but her actions, and his, strike me this was very much a two-way thing and who's to say they aren't "in love"? Yes it's not right at all for a man to bear love and affection down on a minor and I'm not saying it's something I think any man should be able to do, but if they truly believe they are in love and this is the reason they've gone down this path then when they do return (or are brought back) this is going to throw up some horrendous moral dilemmas that are going to have very drawn-out and traumatic effects on their's and their families lives for a very long time. Paedophiles in the sense of the word we all know also don't tend to manipulate their victims as openly as we believe he did then run off to France with them and get caught on CCTV on the ferry acting like a young couple on their fourth date. They do with the child sex ring in Rochdale did. Is he a paedophile? Is he a pervert? Is he a what? I don't know how to answer that question, someone else do it for me, a few of us have spent a long time talking about this today and we still have no idea what bracket to stick him in. Also bear in mind at this point we don't know if they've actually had sexual intercourse? The easy assumption (and the one most news-worthy) is to say they have, but we don't know anything about how far this relationship has actually gone. Friends say they socialised out of school but can't seem to actually confirm anything definite, both their phones were seized last week and no evidence was found and you would assume if e-mails or pictures had been found on either of their computers it would have been reported to the press by now. As for Megan, when I went to school most of the 15 year-old girls in my year 11 were dating older boys, well let's be frank, men. No they weren't as old as 30, but some of them were around 20 and yes several of them were immature infatuations with a boyfriend who drives, earns money and is "cooler" than any other boy in your year. But some of them struck me like Megan is, they were a bit unconventional, alternative themselves. Attractive but not in the popularity contest sense and into things like Nirvana and poetry, and they dug blokes like this Forrest man who is probably far more in touch with young people in his school district than any other teacher there. And they were in relationships in every sense of the word, I don't know if they were having sex or not, you can only hope not but some of it wasn't as "simple" or "teenagers being teenagers" as some parents and older members of the community would have liked to have thought and I can look back on that as a 25 year-old man now and know that my opinion has not changed from them, in fact two of the couples are still together.





Your opinion on Megan is very possible, however Jeremy Forest's motives is still concerning. End of the day he's a married man and a school teacher. He should had never allowed this friendship to develope especially with a 15 year old girl, half his age.



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Post #: 9
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 10:22:51 AM   
Alistair81

 

Posts: 342
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
There is a big difference between a 15 year old girl having an "older" boyfriend (plenty at my school did too - not automatically sexual) and running away with a 30 year old teacher. For a start he has abused his position of responsibility whether they are "in love" or not. Also I have heard the a age of consent is 18 when there is a teacher (or other person in a position of authority) involved not 16. There are differences between this case and the paedophile rings Goodfella mentioned which seem to imply to me that Forrest has been incredibly naive - ie how on earth does he think he'll be allowed to get away with it - I can only think he is seriously deluded on some level (not that that is any form of defence.)

With regard to whether they really are in love or not my girlfriend was listening to Jeremy Vine on the radio when they had a caller who had been in the same position as Megan and felt that she was in love with her teacher and they had an affair though nobody found out about it. It was only when she was older and more mature that she realised she had been abused. Once she worked up the courage to speak to the police etc, it became apparent that they had received many complaints about this same guy, along similar lines and were actively investigating him. Now I'm not saying that this is the exact case here, but in the example given it was only once she had gained maturity and life experience that the victim was able to understand how she had been manipulated etc. and though Megan may maintain she is in love, some time down the line she may have a similar realisation.

Having said all that, I think it is important that we don't all get caught up in the media storm surrounding this case with the various papers and their own brands of outrage. It serves nobody's interest to condemn him without all of the evidence and to start a witch hunt.

For me the saddest thing about the whole thing is all of the lives that will have been ruined - the wife, the unborn baby, Megan's parents not to mention Megan (who is a victim no matter what pictures they print in the paper or text conversations etc. - that's not far off saying a woman deserves to be assaulted because of what she is wearing) and even Forrest who even if it turned out had been nothing but honourable (!) has thrown everything away (I imagine his job, marriage, freedom and future)

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Post #: 10
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 10:43:33 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54596
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Isn't that still a problem with the line? Whether or not he's had sex with her, he's squarely in the wrong.

He's a 30yo man who has run away with a 15yo pupil - that evidence alone is all that is needed to condemn him. There's no excuse for it.

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Post #: 11
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 11:41:58 AM   
Alistair81

 

Posts: 342
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Isn't that still a problem with the line? Whether or not he's had sex with her, he's squarely in the wrong.

He's a 30yo man who has run away with a 15yo pupil - that evidence alone is all that is needed to condemn him. There's no excuse for it.


He is definitely in the wrong somewhere, but until the details are known it is impossible to condemn him of anything. Obviously the press take the view that he must be a sick child molester (which may prove to be the case).

Apparently the French police aren't treating it as a criminal issue, just a missing person case!

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Post #: 12
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 11:46:11 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4244
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair81


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Isn't that still a problem with the line? Whether or not he's had sex with her, he's squarely in the wrong.

He's a 30yo man who has run away with a 15yo pupil - that evidence alone is all that is needed to condemn him. There's no excuse for it.


He is definitely in the wrong somewhere, but until the details are known it is impossible to condemn him of anything.


You mean apart from running off with a 15 year old girl, taking her away from her family and abandoning his pregnant wife?

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Post #: 13
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 11:56:49 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54596
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair81


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Isn't that still a problem with the line? Whether or not he's had sex with her, he's squarely in the wrong.

He's a 30yo man who has run away with a 15yo pupil - that evidence alone is all that is needed to condemn him. There's no excuse for it.


He is definitely in the wrong somewhere, but until the details are known it is impossible to condemn him of anything. Obviously the press take the view that he must be a sick child molester (which may prove to be the case).

Apparently the French police aren't treating it as a criminal issue, just a missing person case!


She's 15 - underage. He's 30 and has removed her from her family home or facilitated that removal. I can't see that not being illegal no matter what else - which would include a breach of whatever teachers sign up to about relationships with students. That isn't a grey area, no matter that the French thought it was a local issue.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 27/9/2012 11:57:33 AM >


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Post #: 14
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 12:04:40 PM   
tommyjarvis


Posts: 6632
Joined: 2/11/2005
From: Caught somewhere in time
I love the double standards with these stories. If it was a 15-year old boy running away with a 30-year old female teacher everyone would be calling the kid a hero.

I'm not quite sure how this guy expects it to end well, however.

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Post #: 15
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 12:08:34 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54596
Joined: 1/10/2005
Who would be calling the guy a hero? It sounds like a response from boys as immature as the kid running away.

There have been plenty of recent cases here and in the US with female teachers prosecuted for relationships with male students.

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Post #: 16
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 12:15:47 PM   
tommyjarvis


Posts: 6632
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I would have loved to have had an affair with a hot teacher when I was 15 tbh.

Granted, that doesn't quite make it legal or morally right.

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Post #: 17
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 12:19:36 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12191
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Who would be calling the guy a hero? It sounds like a response from boys as immature as the kid running away.

There have been plenty of recent cases here and in the US with female teachers prosecuted for relationships with male students.

Presumably TJ wasn't talking about the police or other officials

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Post #: 18
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 12:21:26 PM   
Brooksy84


Posts: 461
Joined: 25/1/2010
The truest measure of just what a pathetic loser the guy clearly is is that he is an "amatuer musician" who has written songs about his really quite disturbing infatuation with a 15 year old girl. I can just picture it, him playing her a song after school that she "inspired him to write", her doodling hearts on her maths book and telling her friends how her new boyfriend is, like, so deep and mature and not like the other boys in school. The irony of course being that Forrest is the most immature party in all of this. His sickeningly self-righteous blog posts about moral dilemmas and right and wrong just show how twisted his sense of morals are. Would I go as far as to call him a peodophile? No. Is he playing on the immaturity and misplaced trust of a child? Absolutely, and for that he deserves vilification and jail.

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Post #: 19
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 12:25:42 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14568
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
His song lyrics are fucking shit as well.

I imagine he looked something like this -



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Post #: 20
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 12:39:41 PM   
UTB


Posts: 9887
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: tommyjarvis

Granted, that doesn't quite make it legal or morally right.


Its legal in a few european countries, no? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe

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Post #: 21
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 12:48:31 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2584
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think ultimately the finer details of this matter will be largely irrelevant when it comes to punishment.

My other half is a teacher and was good friends with a guy who got caught in a similar scenario with his student, albeit she was 17 and they didn't flee the country. Despite the fact they were "in love", the girl being of normal legal age and the entire thing appearing to be completely consensual, none of that mattered at all, the judge went to town. The whole position of trust issue extends the age of consent up to 18 in these cases I believe, so he was fucked basically, got handed a prison sentence.

But that was far less clear cut than what this Forrest plonker has gone and done, the girl is below the age of normal consent, let alone the age required in the position of trust scenario, they'll throw the book at him and rightly so, he's been a major tit.

< Message edited by paulyboy -- 27/9/2012 12:50:44 PM >


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Post #: 22
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 12:48:54 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8287
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair81


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Isn't that still a problem with the line? Whether or not he's had sex with her, he's squarely in the wrong.

He's a 30yo man who has run away with a 15yo pupil - that evidence alone is all that is needed to condemn him. There's no excuse for it.


He is definitely in the wrong somewhere, but until the details are known it is impossible to condemn him of anything.
Obviously the press take the view that he must be a sick child molester (which may prove to be the case).

Apparently the French police aren't treating it as a criminal issue, just a missing person case!


He's undoubtedly abused a position of trust and authority though. People can argue about the ages of those involved and how reprehensible it may be, but than the simple fact is he's failed as both a professional and a man by doing what he's done. My guess is he'll get caught, get sent down and find himself having a very unpleasant time of it in the clink.

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Post #: 23
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 1:14:09 PM   
Alistair81

 

Posts: 342
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
Elab and Dancing Clown, I apologise - I obviously have not made myself clear because you both appear to have reached the same conclusion about my comments. That'll teach me to have one eye on work and one on a post I am writing!

I neither condone nor excuse his actions. Clearly he is in the wrong, clearly there is no excuse, but until the facts are known there is no point in starting up a witch hunt. Clearly the facts known so far are damning, but I was trying to reflect the fact that initiating a media frenzy serves nobody's interest. I'm not trying to play down his actions by saying "he's definitely in the wrong somewhere" more to reflect that it is not fully known what he has done wrong, just assumed. Its more important at this stage to get her home safely than to pour over all of the (assumed) sordid details.

I am amazed by the French police's response, I suspect you though I was presenting their attitude as that as proof that he's just misunderstood (perhaps I should have included a shocked smiley )

quote:

She's 15 - underage. He's 30 and has removed her from her family home or facilitated that removal. I can't see that not being illegal no matter what else - which would include a breach of whatever teachers sign up to about relationships with students. That isn't a grey area, no matter that the French thought it was a local issue.


I agree entirely, as I stated in my original post I'm pretty sure the age of consent between a teacher and a student is 18 rather than just 16 to reflect the teacher's relative position of maturity and responsibility.

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Post #: 24
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 1:17:35 PM   
Alistair81

 

Posts: 342
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
quote:

He's undoubtedly abused a position of trust and authority though. People can argue about the ages of those involved and how reprehensible it may be, but than the simple fact is he's failed as both a professional and a man by doing what he's done. My guess is he'll get caught, get sent down and find himself having a very unpleasant time of it in the clink.


Absolutely, which is what I was trying to get at when I said he is guilty of something though it is not yet clear exactly what he is guilty of. I hope my response to Elab and Dancing Clown has made it clearer

< Message edited by Alistair81 -- 27/9/2012 1:20:57 PM >


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Post #: 25
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 1:26:40 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54596
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair81

quote:

He's undoubtedly abused a position of trust and authority though. People can argue about the ages of those involved and how reprehensible it may be, but than the simple fact is he's failed as both a professional and a man by doing what he's done. My guess is he'll get caught, get sent down and find himself having a very unpleasant time of it in the clink.


Absolutely, which is what I was trying to get at when I said he is guilty of something though it is not yet clear exactly what he is guilty of. I hope my response to Elab and Dancing Clown has made it clearer


In totality, probably - but I think it's maybe we already know he's in the wrong, and has broken probably a couple of laws and kicked profession ethics into touch in an actionable way. It's just a case of how much more wrong will be added rather than any question that he's already there, I think.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 26
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 1:31:09 PM   
Alistair81

 

Posts: 342
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair81

quote:

He's undoubtedly abused a position of trust and authority though. People can argue about the ages of those involved and how reprehensible it may be, but than the simple fact is he's failed as both a professional and a man by doing what he's done. My guess is he'll get caught, get sent down and find himself having a very unpleasant time of it in the clink.


Absolutely, which is what I was trying to get at when I said he is guilty of something though it is not yet clear exactly what he is guilty of. I hope my response to Elab and Dancing Clown has made it clearer


In totality, probably - but I think it's maybe we already know he's in the wrong, and has broken probably a couple of laws and kicked profession ethics into touch in an actionable way. It's just a case of how much more wrong will be added rather than any question that he's already there, I think.


That is a much better way of putting it.


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Post #: 27
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 1:35:56 PM   
Brooksy84


Posts: 461
Joined: 25/1/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

His song lyrics are fucking shit as well.

I imagine he looked something like this -






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Post #: 28
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 3:15:22 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17364
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

The truest measure of just what a pathetic loser the guy clearly is is that he is an "amatuer musician" who has written songs about his really quite disturbing infatuation with a 15 year old girl. I can just picture it, him playing her a song after school that she "inspired him to write", her doodling hearts on her maths book and telling her friends how her new boyfriend is, like, so deep and mature and not like the other boys in school. The irony of course being that Forrest is the most immature party in all of this. His sickeningly self-righteous blog posts about moral dilemmas and right and wrong just show how twisted his sense of morals are. Would I go as far as to call him a peodophile? No. Is he playing on the immaturity and misplaced trust of a child? Absolutely, and for that he deserves vilification and jail.


There was an interesting article online that I'll try and find later that actually talks about some of this, and how social media has broken down the barriers of relationships between teachers and pupils. Whereas in the past, when you think back to your days at primary school, there were plenty of us who didn't know better and thought our teachers lived at school, like they were some kind of robot that powered down at night and was charged up the following morning by the caretaker who, nine times out of ten, actually did live at the school. Social media has completely changed all of that, my mum is very anti any teachers using social media sites like facebook and twitter. There is actually no law to state teachers cannot friend pupils and vice versa on these sites, but child protection guidelines strongly urge teachers not to, but you are not breaking any laws if you do. Anyway the article actually used your choice of words, it said something like "whereas in the past a schoolgirl with a crush on her alternative, sexy, middle-aged teacher would doodle lovehearts in the margin of her textbooks and dream up lunchtime fantasies, whereas now they can log onto facebook and look at pictures of them getting wasted at the weekend and share song choices with them."

quote:

There is a big difference between a 15 year old girl having an "older" boyfriend (plenty at my school did too - not automatically sexual) and running away with a 30 year old teacher. For a start he has abused his position of responsibility whether they are "in love" or not


I know this, and so does everybody else. For the record I'm not stating it's okay to carry on a relationship with a minor as a schoolteacher because you should be treated like the older boyfriend of a 15 year-old girl.

quote:

With regard to whether they really are in love or not my girlfriend was listening to Jeremy Vine on the radio when they had a caller who had been in the same position as Megan and felt that she was in love with her teacher and they had an affair though nobody found out about it. It was only when she was older and more mature that she realised she had been abused. Once she worked up the courage to speak to the police etc, it became apparent that they had received many complaints about this same guy, along similar lines and were actively investigating him. Now I'm not saying that this is the exact case here, but in the example given it was only once she had gained maturity and life experience that the victim was able to understand how she had been manipulated etc. and though Megan may maintain she is in love, some time down the line she may have a similar realisation.


There has been a lot in the red-tops from former pupils of his who claimed he sent them birthday cards, messages, invited them to his gigs etc. He taught at a school in Dartford, not far from where I used to live, and several have been interviewed by the press although I'd be keen to point out at this stage, and I'm not saying these things didn't happen, that this is going to be truncated by the press and I certainly wouldn't believe everything you read. There has been nothing confirmed or no evidence claimed that he had been under investigation by any previous school for anything, mind you he can't have been in teaching that long being aged just 30. I guess a lot of this will or won't come out when they are eventually found, or return home.

quote:

Having said all that, I think it is important that we don't all get caught up in the media storm surrounding this case with the various papers and their own brands of outrage. It serves nobody's interest to condemn him without all of the evidence and to start a witch hunt.


Bad news sells papers. The Telegraph have covered it with a cautious eye and stated truth and fact, rather than conjecture, which does nothing to actually help find Megan. It is believed that the missing persons alert was what actually spooked the two into hiding, they had a return ticket from Calais booked for last Sunday but weren't on the ferry. In some respects the media want to remember Milly Dowler here, and not make similar mistakes again.

quote:

I love the double standards with these stories. If it was a 15-year old boy running away with a 30-year old female teacher everyone would be calling the kid a hero.

I'm not quite sure how this guy expects it to end well, however.


Maybe some of his immature mates and "MILF-lovers" but I wouldn't expect that reaction from most of the general public.

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Post #: 29
RE: Megan Stammers and her teacher still missing! - 27/9/2012 4:34:52 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB


quote:

ORIGINAL: tommyjarvis

Granted, that doesn't quite make it legal or morally right.


Its legal in a few european countries, no? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe


The Spain one is pretty low.

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