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What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"?

 
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What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 15/9/2012 10:38:59 AM   
chris kilby

 

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With the belated appearance on disc of restored “Director’s Cuts” of everything from Spartacus to Lawrence of Arabia, Blade Runner to Metropolis and even Superman II and Highlander II (not great by any means, but a surprisingly vast improvement – re-edited from top to bottom, they even shot new material and re-did all the effects. And actually apologised for the original release on the extensive DVD extras – they shoulda called it The Mea Culpa Cut!) what are the famous lost (or notoriously mutilated) movies you’d like to see re-discovered and finally released on disc?

Top of my list’s gotta be Orson Welles’ sophomore film, The Magnificent Ambersons – easily as good as if not better than Citizen Kane. Until the horribly truncated last real, that is, notoriously butchered by RKO in Welles’ absence. If you thought the original ending of Blade Runner was obviously tacked-on, just wait till you see this!

The Keep is long-overdue a proper release in Director’s Cut form. Or any form. Famously Michael Mann’s “lost” film, it only ever received a cursory cinematic release in massively truncated/incoherent form and to this day is notoriously hard (and expensive) to track down. On VHS – it’s never been released on disc. (I think there may be complicated rights and/or music clearance issues.) To the best of my knowledge, The Keep’s only ever been shown on British network television once (as part of BBC2’s “Lost” season years ago – I still have a knackered copy on tape somewhere).

Horribly dated now in a lot of respects – the lighting is very MTV, the Tangerine Dream synth score couldn’t be more 80s if it wore leg warmers and a spangly boob tube (not that that that did Drive any harm!) and it is impossible to watch the ending without thinking about The Snowman the same way it’s impossible to listen to The William Tell Overture without thinking about The Lone Ranger! But it’s still very atmospheric and uncharacteristically dreamlike for the usually gritty if stylised Mann, it has a superb cast of mostly Brit character actors (it was shot in Wales!) and being Mann’s sole horror movie (albeit a very arty and pretentious one) it’s a real curio. Once seen, never forgotten. It also anticipated the current wave of Nazi-themed horror by decades!

And there’s a couple of guilty, well, not pleasures exactly which will probably never see the light of day. Especially now. I’d really like to see Director’s Cuts of The Avengers (no, the Ralph Fiennes/Uma Thurman one) and Judge Dredd (yes, the Stallone one). Both massively flawed to say the least, fearing they had disasters on their hands, both films were slashed within an inch of their lives by panicking studios just prior to release in order to cut their losses (90 minute running times meant an extra performance at each screen showing them before the expected bad word-of-mouth killed them stone dead) thus guaranteeing they'd be disasters. Genius.

The Avengers, especially, was cut to the point of incoherence – virtually nothing in the really rather spiffing “How now brown cow?” trailer (including the pre-credits action set-piece which would have made more sense of the whole “Evil” Emma Peel subplot) made it into the theatrical release which has gotta be some kind of record as well as a great source of frustration for years.

I don’t know if Directors’ Cuts of Judge Dredd or The Avengers would be any better (both films are seriously flawed although I do have a soft spot for them – in the back of my skull!) but they couldn’t be any worse. Could they…? Even Alien 3’s restored “Assembly Cut” is a vast improvement on its hopelessly compromised theatrical cut. Plus the Director’s Cut of Judge Dredd would come with the added bonus if not selling point of Rob Schneider getting blown away – I’d buy that for a dollar! Hard to believe now, but he was saved by bad test screening results, thus proving what a blight they are on the cinema!

Longer versions aren’t necessarily better, BTW. Usually they’re not. While it was nice to finally see the “French Plantation Sequence,” Apocalypse Now Redux wasn’t as good as the tighter Apocalypse Now. But while the legendary five hour cut of Apocalypse Now is just that – a myth (or at the very least, a rough cut) I’d still like to see the longer original release print of 2001 which was cut by Kubrick himself before it was swiftly re-released as “The Ultimate Trip.”

By a similar token, it was great to finally see the 90 minute, studio-sanctioned “Love Conquers All” cut of Brazil finally emerge on Criterion just so we could see for ourselves the ignominious fate Terry Gilliam rescued his masterpiece from. It’s like a child clumsily drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa with a magic marker. Or a giant cock and balls on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel!


< Message edited by chris kilby -- 15/9/2012 11:09:13 AM >
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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 15/9/2012 6:55:00 PM   
The Waco Kid

 

Posts: 401
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where to start

2001 a space odyssey i would like to see put back to it's original length (i remember reading somewhere that they cut about 45 minutes from the original film)

Blue Velvet i would like to see fully restored now they have found the missing footage ( I'm sorry Mr Lynch but i don't want to see it tacked on the back of a blue ray AS A FUCKING EXTRA)

Fire walk with me, yet again cut to pieces (I also understand this footage has also gone walkies as well)

I agree about the Magnificent Ambersons (i had heard that Welles had a copy of the film sent to him so it may be that footage still exists and wasn't used as road-fill as suggested)


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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 15/9/2012 7:08:08 PM   
jackcarter


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Superman II - a 'Final Cut' that incorperates the best of each version

Star Trek V - Directors cut with redone FX/new ending like was done for Star Trek TMP (done right it could be like Star Treks Prometheus)

< Message edited by jackcarter -- 15/9/2012 7:12:06 PM >

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 15/9/2012 7:49:06 PM   
DancingClown


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Clive Barker's Nightbreed. I know that the lost footage has now been found and it's been performing brilliantly at special screenings, but it'll still be feckin' ages until it turns up on blu-ray.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 16/9/2012 2:17:30 PM   
Deviation


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The Day the Clown Cried. I want to see what an ill-thought, disasterous failure it is.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 16/9/2012 2:41:17 PM   
directorscut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Waco Kid


Blue Velvet i would like to see fully restored now they have found the missing footage ( I'm sorry Mr Lynch but i don't want to see it tacked on the back of a blue ray AS A FUCKING EXTRA)




Eh? They are deleted scenes.

They were deleted for a reason. The film is Lynch's final cut.

The scene are just curios. They're nice to see but if I were editing/directing the film the only one I would keep in the film Jeffrey and Dorothy on the rooftop.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 16/9/2012 3:17:26 PM   
gunstar


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The rumoured 5 hour version of Malik's The Thin Red Line.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 16/9/2012 4:17:37 PM   
scarface666brooksy!!


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gunstar

The rumoured 5 hour version of Malik's The Thin Red Line.


Please let this be true!

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 16/9/2012 5:02:54 PM   
Timbzy


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Empire Records before it was cut down to be just one day in the life of a record store.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 16/9/2012 5:08:38 PM   
AngryDude92


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The 4hours and 20ish minutes cut of Once upon a time in America. it's out there somewhere.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 16/9/2012 11:24:40 PM   
UTB


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Tarantino's original True Romance script was written in a non-linear format (he revealed on a recent podcast) and rumour has it Tony Scott did a cut of the film in the same structure but carried on, in typical Scott style, by going 'avant-garde' with the jumping about. Would love to see this if true, being a TS fan.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 17/9/2012 9:08:37 AM   
grucl

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

Tarantino's original True Romance script was written in a non-linear format (he revealed on a recent podcast) and rumour has it Tony Scott did a cut of the film in the same structure but carried on, in typical Scott style, by going 'avant-garde' with the jumping about. Would love to see this if true, being a TS fan.


There is a fanedit of True Romance which puts the scenes in the order in which they apprear in the screenplay.
I watched it once and let's put it this way: Tony Scott made the right decision.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 17/9/2012 10:42:47 AM   
UTB


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Yeah I thought he might have, I was more interested to see how Scott went overboard with it, though

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 17/9/2012 1:35:23 PM   
SwozTheRevenge


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The 156min Dawn Of The Dead would be nice to see.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 17/9/2012 3:13:58 PM   
horribleives

 

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Yeah I've read the original True Romance script - it works much better in chronologoical order.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 17/9/2012 4:23:45 PM   
snaze1


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Mine would have to be a "Directors cut" (Impossible now that John Hughes is sadly no longer with us) of Planes, Trains and automobiles.
John Hughes had over 3 hours of footage for the film but had to cut it down to a manageable 93 minute movie for release, would love to see an epic 180 minute version of this film!

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 19/9/2012 10:49:06 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2494
Joined: 11/2/2008
I'd like to see the unrated cuts of Cliffhanger, Total Recall and Hard Target in all their gory glory.

Both Cliffhanger and Hard Target have unrated cuts / workprints that can be found online but in both cases you can't really see anything due to the extremely poor video quality,


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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 19/9/2012 11:10:16 AM   
NCC1701A


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Star Trek Nemesis director's  Cut with the 50 minutes worth of cut scenes put back in.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 19/9/2012 11:20:08 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1314
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Star Trek: Nemesis is no classic but it's SO underrated. I'm no Trekkie but I'm baffled why the Trek fans seemed to hate it so much. Including a mate of mine who even liked Insurrection which was so bland I can hardly remember it now. A shockingly young (and slim!) Tom Hardy, unsurprisingly, is really rather excellent as an (unlikely) Picard clone. A character with some remarkable similarities to Bane: he too was "born in darkness"; grew up in an underground prison; lives in constant pain; leads a cult-like group of militant fanatics who overthrow an established order; and dresses like a gimp. They're both slapheads an' all!

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 19/9/2012 11:25:45 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Waco Kid

where to start

2001 a space odyssey i would like to see put back to it's original length (i remember reading somewhere that they cut about 45 minutes from the original film)


Was it as much as that? Any idea what went? More Dawn of Man stuff and stately flypasts, I expect...


quote:

I agree about the Magnificent Ambersons (i had heard that Welles had a copy of the film sent to him so it may be that footage still exists and wasn't used as road-fill as suggested)


I don't doubt this will show up some day. If that lost Metropolis footage could turn up in Argentina or wherever it was, then anything is possible!

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 19/9/2012 11:27:36 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Clive Barker's Nightbreed. I know that the lost footage has now been found and it's been performing brilliantly at special screenings, but it'll still be feckin' ages until it turns up on blu-ray.


That's a good one.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 19/9/2012 11:28:33 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

The Day the Clown Cried. I want to see what an ill-thought, disasterous failure it is.


Be careful what you wish for...

(Woo-hoo - my 1000th post!)

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 19/9/2012 11:29:36 PM >

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 19/9/2012 11:35:27 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: gunstar

The rumoured 5 hour version of Malik's The Thin Red Line.


Is that not like the legendary "Five hour cut" of Apocalypse Now? I don't doubt a much longer cut exists (we all know about the big names who ended upon the cutting room floor - a lot of 'em get namechecked in the credits), but this still sounds more like a rough cut to me. Look at Apocalypse Now - Redux. Size isn't everything!

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 19/9/2012 11:43:43 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1314
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge

The 156min Dawn Of The Dead would be nice to see.


Has this not been available? I've seen a number of cuts of this over the years and I'm sure I've seen a version which was well over two hours. The opening sequence and music were different (the sequence of events, certainly), though I could be mistaken.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 20/9/2012 3:21:16 PM   
SwozTheRevenge


Posts: 225
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge

The 156min Dawn Of The Dead would be nice to see.


Has this not been available? I've seen a number of cuts of this over the years and I'm sure I've seen a version which was well over two hours. The opening sequence and music were different (the sequence of events, certainly), though I could be mistaken.



Only in Germany it seems

An 'ultimate final cut' has been released in Germany. It features all known scenes from the director's cut and the cuts of Romero and Argento. It runs 156 minutes.


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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 20/9/2012 9:41:52 PM   
Cool Breeze


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Would love to see a proper directors cut of Judge Dredd.So much was cut out,especially the clones at the end,they come alive,Sly cocks his gun and then...are never seen again! What?

And yeah it would be great to see Rob Schneiders character get killed!

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 21/9/2012 8:20:56 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2494
Joined: 11/2/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge

The 156min Dawn Of The Dead would be nice to see.


Has this not been available? I've seen a number of cuts of this over the years and I'm sure I've seen a version which was well over two hours. The opening sequence and music were different (the sequence of events, certainly), though I could be mistaken.



Only in Germany it seems

An 'ultimate final cut' has been released in Germany. It features all known scenes from the director's cut and the cuts of Romero and Argento. It runs 156 minutes.



It is also called the "Krekel cut" over here because it was done by a film distibutor called Oliver Krekel.



This cut is interetsting for die-hard fans only.
The integration of all the footage totally ruins the pacing of the film.



< Message edited by grucl -- 21/9/2012 8:24:48 AM >

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 21/9/2012 12:55:41 PM   
SwozTheRevenge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl

This cut is interetsting for die-hard fans only.



Indeed, hence my post.


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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 21/9/2012 3:35:31 PM   
clownfoot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scarface666brooksy!!


quote:

ORIGINAL: gunstar

The rumoured 5 hour version of Malik's The Thin Red Line.


Please let this be true!


Why? The three hour version ruined a perfectly good hour-and-a-half war movie.

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RE: What Are Your Movie "Holy Grails"? - 22/9/2012 3:02:12 AM   
scarface666brooksy!!


Posts: 3544
Joined: 24/10/2007
From: The Valley of the Wind

quote:

ORIGINAL: clownfoot


quote:

ORIGINAL: scarface666brooksy!!


quote:

ORIGINAL: gunstar

The rumoured 5 hour version of Malik's The Thin Red Line.


Please let this be true!


Why? The three hour version ruined a perfectly good hour-and-a-half war movie.




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