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Balance Blu-ray sound!!!

 
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Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 25/8/2012 1:55:53 AM   
PeteMiddleton

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/6/2010
From: Birstall, West Yorkshire, UK
I'm sick and tired of having to turn the volume down on a Blu-ray menu screen only to have to turn it down some more once the film logo appears. I then find myself forced to turn the volume up twice as loud once the opening titles begin. I find myself turning it up a little more once the first words are spoken by the actors and when there's a nuclear blast my equipment and speakers are damaged, I also have my neighbours banging on the wall... from a detached house!!
I'm constantly correcting the volume via my remote, why isn't the volume sorted at the same time the disc is manufactured?
Can we not have a balanced volume during a Blu-ray film???
Loving the picture quality but the sound is pathetic at the moment.
Please support my page and get this annoying problem fixed!!
https://www.facebook.com/BluRayVolume
Best Regards,
Pete
Post #: 1
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 25/8/2012 2:12:34 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Not the best place for this to be honest.

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RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 25/8/2012 2:16:00 AM   
PeteMiddleton

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/6/2010
From: Birstall, West Yorkshire, UK
Any suggestions?

Best Regards,
Pete

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Post #: 3
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 25/8/2012 2:17:51 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
I find this happens with everything really, not just Blu Ray. I was watching Finding Neverland earlier on a Lovefilm stream, and I could barely hear the dialogue if I didn't turn up the volume. Trouble is, whenever I did, the noise of the music alone that would follow in the next scene would be almost deafening.

Even as first world problems go, it's a minor gripe from me

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Post #: 4
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 25/8/2012 2:22:55 AM   
directorscut


Posts: 10891
Joined: 30/9/2005
This isn't a problem with Blu-ray, it's the general trend in soundmixing today - everything has to be loud even if it swamps the dialogue. Doesn't help that most actors tend to mumble as well.

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Post #: 5
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 25/8/2012 7:15:53 AM   
vader100


Posts: 2339
Joined: 30/9/2005
Sounds to me like your system balance is out. Yes, there may be differences on the menu and the film but once the film has started you should be ok. If you have a surround sound system try upping the level of your centre speaker if dialogue is low or dropping the levels of your surrounds or subwoofer if explosions etc are overpowering. Some films are overblown in the bass department to give extra oomph. Usually these are big effects driven blockbusters, Battleship and Battle LA are good examples.

If you are just listening through stereo speaker system or TV speakers select the stereo track instead of the surround track if it has the option.

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RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 25/8/2012 5:05:42 PM   
Super Hans


Posts: 2402
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Watford
Haven't got a Blu Ray player but I've always just resigned to the fact that DVDs are like that anyway? Always have to turn the sound up quite high to hear dialogie, then end up jumping out of my skin when a gun fires or the score booms loudly - Inception is a good example of this that springs to mind.

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Post #: 7
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 25/8/2012 5:46:37 PM   
Chief Wiggum


Posts: 1919
Joined: 30/9/2005

Check your system settings - DVDs and Blurays have 5.1 and 7.1 outputs (and often the players default to this) there should be an option to change the speaker options to TV Speakers or something like that.

IIRC the problem with sending 5.1 or 7.1 sound to your tv speakers is that the vocal channel is often set for the central speaker, rather than the left and right channels - which is what gets picked up by the tv.

at least that's my understanding of it, I could be wrong, but getting that setting correct has improved things on my simple set-up

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RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 26/8/2012 12:06:18 AM   
PeteMiddleton

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/6/2010
From: Birstall, West Yorkshire, UK
Thanks for your response and I appreciate the replies back.
I'd like to state that this is certainly a problem with the discs and not the way I've set my 35ft home cinema sound up!
I take my home cinema very seriously, it is not a past-time for me.





I have the same films duplicated on various other formats and the sound balance is superb, but the sound from the Blu-Ray format is up and down - ALL THE TIME!!!.
This is something that needs to be fixed before more "pin sharp" releases are ruined due to this huge annoying sound problem.
Best Regards,
Pete

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Post #: 9
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 27/8/2012 7:08:53 PM   
vader100


Posts: 2339
Joined: 30/9/2005
That's really your "home cinema"

I have a 7.1 set up but just in my front room and I very rarely have had any of the problems you are talking about.

What speakers do you have up front?

< Message edited by vader100 -- 27/8/2012 7:10:35 PM >


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Post #: 10
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 27/8/2012 7:26:52 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeteMiddleton

Thanks for your response and I appreciate the replies back.
I'd like to state that this is certainly a problem with the discs and not the way I've set my 35ft home cinema sound up!
I take my home cinema very seriously, it is not a past-time for me.

I have the same films duplicated on various other formats and the sound balance is superb, but the sound from the Blu-Ray format is up and down - ALL THE TIME!!!.
This is something that needs to be fixed before more "pin sharp" releases are ruined due to this huge annoying sound problem.
Best Regards,
Pete


Can I be your friend?

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Post #: 11
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 27/8/2012 8:17:59 PM   
donethinking


Posts: 431
Joined: 24/4/2012
From: Haggisland

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeteMiddleton

I take my home cinema very seriously, it is not a past-time for me.








Flash git !

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Post #: 12
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 27/8/2012 10:33:05 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeteMiddleton

Thanks for your response and I appreciate the replies back.
I'd like to state that this is certainly a problem with the discs and not the way I've set my 35ft home cinema sound up!
I take my home cinema very seriously, it is not a past-time for me.





I have the same films duplicated on various other formats and the sound balance is superb, but the sound from the Blu-Ray format is up and down - ALL THE TIME!!!.
This is something that needs to be fixed before more "pin sharp" releases are ruined due to this huge annoying sound problem.
Best Regards,
Pete



Bloomin' heck, I grew up in Birstall, it's a travesty that we weren't friends.

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Post #: 13
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 27/8/2012 11:16:16 PM   
PeteMiddleton

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/6/2010
From: Birstall, West Yorkshire, UK
Hi vader100,
I believe my main speakers are KEF R900's backed up by a KEF R900 Floorstanding Loudspeaker.
The speakers in my cinema are exceptional. The sound of my DVD's and other formats are superb but I experience the same up and down volume problems watching blu-ray in both my cinema - with 7.1 digital surround sound, and it is also noticeable through my shitty stereo telly speakers up in the house!
Even the menu screen hasn't been corrected to the volume of the film. I'm sure I'm not the only person finding themselves turning up (or down) the volume once the "play movie" button has been clicked??
Best Regards,
Pete

(in reply to vader100)
Post #: 14
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 27/8/2012 11:18:27 PM   
PeteMiddleton

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/6/2010
From: Birstall, West Yorkshire, UK
Hey, sorry to hear that!
We're always looking for people that would appreciate the place!

Regards,
Pete

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Post #: 15
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 27/8/2012 11:23:25 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
*moves to Birstall, West Yorkshire*



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Post #: 16
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 27/8/2012 11:50:15 PM   
PeteMiddleton

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/6/2010
From: Birstall, West Yorkshire, UK

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Post #: 17
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 29/8/2012 4:46:57 PM   
vader100


Posts: 2339
Joined: 30/9/2005
One thing I do notice looking at that room is it doesn't have any acoustic treatment. Sound is going bounce all around that room creating null and peaks which might explain why the sound gets quieter and louder.

Also has any EQ been carried out on the sound?

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Post #: 18
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 29/8/2012 10:26:39 PM   
PeteMiddleton

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/6/2010
From: Birstall, West Yorkshire, UK
The "room" (a purposely built 35ft building in the back garden with separate projection room) has been professionally sound proofed and all other formats in there sound superb. Nothing at all wrong with EQ settings, Surely I would have the same problems with all my other formats if it was a flaw in my sound set-up that are all projected in the same place and through the same speakers? Like I previously mentioned, the volume whilst playing Blu-ray is constantly up and down (even on my telly). Even the menu screens are over loud compared to the film.
Thanks for your reply
Pete

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Post #: 19
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 29/8/2012 11:22:14 PM   
donethinking


Posts: 431
Joined: 24/4/2012
From: Haggisland
Perhaps an Onkyo TX-NR5008 amp would sort it ?
"Included as part of the Audyssey suite is Dynamic EQ with Dynamic Volume. This seeks to maintain bass response and dialogue intelligibility at lower volume levels, and evens out variances in source volume."

Now available for a meagre 1800

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Post #: 20
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 30/8/2012 11:18:46 AM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6295
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
I have a previous model Onkyo with a similar feature.  It works well in reducing the volume differences in the soundtrack from a TrueHD source.

Unfortunately, because the audio track for the menu is a separate file on most discs, this only serves to flatten out the dynamic range in the menu screens, and you're still left with the same discrepancy in volume levels between the feature and the menus

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Post #: 21
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 30/8/2012 3:53:11 PM   
vader100


Posts: 2339
Joined: 30/9/2005
Do you get it with ALL blus? Or is it just some titles? I find it strange that I don't get the problem. Yes there are some films that have overbearing bass, quiet dialogue etc. but that is an individual mastering problem. As you say DVDs are fine. Where the best tracks are I have no problems with the balance.

Best examples, The Lord of the rings Extended, Band of Brothers Toy Story Trilogy. All films with dialogue, action sequences and score that balance brilliantly.

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Post #: 22
RE: Balance Blu-ray sound!!! - 31/8/2012 2:17:17 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1168
Joined: 2/4/2006
The problem here is the soundtrack has too much dynamic range for your set up. This is because films are mixed to be played back in commercial theatres. Commercial theatres are much bigger than, and therefore have very different different acoustic qualities to even your very large home cinema.

The dynamic range of a system is the difference between the smallest and largest values measurable within that system. In photography it is the difference between the lightest and darkest values recordable. In audio it is the difference between the quietest and loudest sounds.

Here the difference between the quiet parts and the loud parts is very great, which leaves you playing with the volume control: which is somewhat less than ideal.

The reason it seems to disproportionately affect Blu-ray might be because the de facto audio standard for DVD is Dolby Digital whereas for Blu-ray you are much more likely to find a DTS (or sometimes a PCM) soundtrack. I suspect your other formats are either analogue, in which case dynamic range will be less than your digital sources, at least for movie content, or also Dolby based.

Dolby has something called "dialnorm" built in.

Dialnorm is short for dialogue normalisation and it is metadata alongside the soundtrack which tells the receiver at what level below peak output the dialogue was recorded. It also has something called DRC control which is Dynamic Range Compression which does exactly what you would expect it to do. For Dolby sources, based upon the dialnorm value it adjusts output so everything within the soundtrack is audible. This can happen either in the player or the receiver. Of course the downside is that you are artificially limiting dynamic range and audiophiles will get quite irate if you so much as whisper those three letters within 100 yards of them.

But it does its job and most people wouldn't care even if they could hear any difference. To my mind the slight loss in fidelity is more than compensated for by actually being able to hear all of the film. I suspect many people have it active in their players for Dolby tracks without even realising it is on.

DTS and PCM have no dialnorm value and no DRC in the players (at least I have never seen it). You are getting all the dynamic range out of the player all the time. So depending on whether the track is Dolby or not you could be getting either a dynamically compressed track, which is more suitable for smaller scale viewing, or the full range track more suitable for commercial venues.

Many receivers do have an option to turn on DRC for all sources, the aforementioned Audyssey system being one version. Other manufacturers will doubtless have their proprietary systems.

If you have it on your receiver try it. It might help.

On the other hand I could have completely missed my guess and this whole post will have been a huge waste of everyone's time.

Adding to what Vader said about sound treatments and at the risk of coming across as a patronising know-it-all, sound proofing is designed to keep the sound in. Sound treatments are designed to control how the sound travels while it is inside the room.

I see from the images you posted that you have what appears to be some kind of panelling on the walls. Hard surfaces like that reflect sound which can exacerbate any other acoustic problems you may be having. I realise I may well be preaching to the choir but if you haven't already it might be worth considering some bass traps and acoustic panelling to make your room sound even better.

Before I sign off I must give kudos to your set up. I especially like the film projectors. Do you get to use them much?

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Post #: 23
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