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Tony Nicklinson Dies - 22/8/2012 1:21:16 PM   
Larry of Arabia

 

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/aug/22/tony-nicklinson-dies-right-to-die

Tony Nicklinson, who had locked-in syndrome and lost his court case to allow a doctor to lawfully end his life, died today. It's a shame he went this way and not on his own terms.

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RE: Tony Nicklinson Dies - 22/8/2012 1:57:35 PM   
UTB


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I still don't understand why this was rejected due to it meaning "a dramatic change in the law". Almost sounds like "too much like hard work".

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RE: Tony Nicklinson Dies - 22/8/2012 7:02:23 PM   
Ref


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From: Leicester

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

I still don't understand why this was rejected due to it meaning "a dramatic change in the law". Almost sounds like "too much like hard work".


Because it would be a dramatic change in the law. The problem being, if the law would be passed, how many elderly and vulnerable people will be urged by plotting 'friends' and family to end it?

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RE: Tony Nicklinson Dies - 22/8/2012 7:02:50 PM   
Dpp1978


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

I still don't understand why this was rejected due to it meaning "a dramatic change in the law". Almost sounds like "too much like hard work".


There is, at least on a very basic level, two kinds of law in a common law jurisdiction: law made by the legislature and law made by the judiciary.

The law made by the legislature, which comes primarily from Acts of Parliament but also increasingly from Europe by way of Directives and Regulations, sets out the big picture, and provides the structure.

The law made by the judiciary derives from the doctrine of stare decisis, whereby the decisions of the courts; in particular the decisions of the appellate courts will bind later decisions where the cases are similar. It mainly involves, at least in modern times, the interpretation and application of the laws passed by the legislature. The judiciary also has the power to order the review of acts done by or on behalf of the executive branch of government, but that, while incredibly important, is not really relevant here.

Because of Parliament's Supremacy its laws take priority over judge made laws. Where there is a conflict with any pre-existing judge made law, or there is incompatibility with pre-existing statutes (which by error of omission were not expressly repealed) the new law overrules the old.

Because Parliament is Supreme (at least theoretically) in its law making powers the modern judiciary is very reluctant to initiate big shifts in policy on its own. There have been times where the court has been invited to introduce new legal remedies but have declined (a fairly recent example was when they declined to accept a new tort of invasion of privacy although they quite easily could have).

Their reason being that big shifts in the operation of the law is for Parliament alone; hopefully as a reflection of the will of the people, but we all know how well that works in the real world.

This case represents another such opportunity. The courts were invited to state that a person could intentionally kill another, which is murder, but because of the circumstances escape criminal liability. There are cases where a person can do this: the best example being self defence, but they are long established and are based on a reactionary measure rather than a proactive act. Again the court has declined the invitation.

Thinking only practically this is entirely understandable even without all of the legal philosophy. If a provision to allow assisted suicide were to be allowed there would have to be complex mechanisms put in place to prevent misuse. Courts are very good at making decisions within the existing framework, but are spectacularly ill equipped to design regulatory structures.

We have another lawmaking body which is very well equipped to do this, if the political will is there: Parliament.

So while we may wish it were otherwise, and you'd have to be pretty heartless to not feel for anyone in Mr. Nicklinson's situation, until such time Parliament sees fit to look at it in earnest, those of us who would welcome such a change will be kept waiting.

And looking at the cowardly self centred bunch populating the halls of Westminster of late, on both sides of the chamber, we will be waiting for a very long time.


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RE: Tony Nicklinson Dies - 22/8/2012 7:15:39 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


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Did anyone feel his sudden death was a bit strange so soon after losing the court case - I get the feeling someone gave him something to let him slip peacefully away and the authorities turned a blind eye. Nothing wrong with it mind, just a bit odd.

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RE: Tony Nicklinson Dies - 22/8/2012 7:20:43 PM   
BigKovacs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

Did anyone feel his sudden death was a bit strange so soon after losing the court case - I get the feeling someone gave him something to let him slip peacefully away and the authorities turned a blind eye. Nothing wrong with it mind, just a bit odd.



The guy was massively ill Fluke, that's one hell of a leap.

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RE: Tony Nicklinson Dies - 22/8/2012 7:38:29 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


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He wasn't massively ill though, he had locked in syndrome - he's been campaigning for the right to die all this time precisely because he was stuck in this terrible state and couldn't die. It's kind of like Dignitas and those people's families are never prosecuted when they return from Switzerland. I get the feeling they couldn't officially sanction anything but wouldn't prosecute if anything did happen - of course I might be completely wrong and he just died of natural causes.

EDIT : They said he died of pneumonia after refusing food over the last couple of days.

< Message edited by Fluke Skywalker -- 22/8/2012 7:53:35 PM >

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RE: Tony Nicklinson Dies - 23/8/2012 10:07:55 AM   
Super Hans


Posts: 2394
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From: Watford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref


quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

I still don't understand why this was rejected due to it meaning "a dramatic change in the law". Almost sounds like "too much like hard work".


Because it would be a dramatic change in the law. The problem being, if the law would be passed, how many elderly and vulnerable people will be urged by plotting 'friends' and family to end it?


I think this pretty much sums up the concerns I would have about it. Not to say that I'm against it at all - cases like Mr Nicklinson's just go to show that there are people out there of sound mind who are genuinely (in their view) in a living hell. It's very sad.

I'm sorry for him that he didn't get to see the law change for people in his situation in his lifetime, but I'm glad he's not suffering anymore.

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RE: Tony Nicklinson Dies - 23/8/2012 10:33:39 AM   
steffols


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From: Jungleland
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

He wasn't massively ill though, he had locked in syndrome - he's been campaigning for the right to die all this time precisely because he was stuck in this terrible state and couldn't die. It's kind of like Dignitas and those people's families are never prosecuted when they return from Switzerland. I get the feeling they couldn't officially sanction anything but wouldn't prosecute if anything did happen - of course I might be completely wrong and he just died of natural causes.

EDIT : They said he died of pneumonia after refusing food over the last couple of days.


At Dignitas, the family of the person dying, is never involved. The person who wishes to die always does it on their own. The people who run it explicitly make aware that they alone are making this decision and no one else is involved. The final poison is given to the person in the form of a drink. The only thing they may do is hold the cup up. There is a lot of paperwork to say that it was the persons decision and they talk to the person right up till the end to make sure this is what they really want.

Its a horrible state of affairs that a man who feels he had no quality of life left had to end it in this traumatic way. The time is definitely upon us where this needs serious consideration by the Government. Obviously its going to involve a massive change in the law and a massive amount of regulation. These court cases are too many now. Its clear to anyone that this isn't cold blooded murder, it really shouldn't be treated as such.

< Message edited by steffols -- 23/8/2012 3:24:53 PM >


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RE: Tony Nicklinson Dies - 23/8/2012 3:22:06 PM   
BigKovacs


Posts: 3195
Joined: 6/4/2006
From: Textile Street.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

He wasn't massively ill though, he had locked in syndrome - he's been campaigning for the right to die all this time precisely because he was stuck in this terrible state and couldn't die. It's kind of like Dignitas and those people's families are never prosecuted when they return from Switzerland. I get the feeling they couldn't officially sanction anything but wouldn't prosecute if anything did happen - of course I might be completely wrong and he just died of natural causes.

EDIT : They said he died of pneumonia after refusing food over the last couple of days.


Locked in Syndrome is being massively ill.

A paralysed man of sound mind had to effecyively starve himself to death through desperation. Some people need to grow some fucking balls and this law needs to change.

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