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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...?

 
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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 12:00:06 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler
Yeah I guess you're right, what I mean is I just think there's a difference between those plot holes that actually have a substantial impact on the rest of the film, and simple mistakes. For example, there's a big plot hole in LOTR that could have solved the entire problem with the ring and rendered the films pointless, and that is the eagles just flying the ring to Mordor*. Whereas a movie mistake is something like the Cloverfield one I mentioned. It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't really affect the film in a big way.

*Just for the record, I love LOTR


I see what you mean,the problem I have with Cloverfield is the ever changing size of the monster which includes that scene you mentioned, it doesn't make much sense. I don't like the term 'simple mistake' though, how is

EDWARD SCISSORHANDS SPOILERS
Edward being alone in the attic of a mansion, surrounded by ice sculptures he made with no means of getting the massive chunks of ice in the first place, let alone being able to carry anything, just a 'simple mistake'?

It's laziness, not a mistake, therefor it's a plot hole. Things like that can actually be insulting to the audience who sit and watch a movie for to hours. If you give a shit, that is, it doesn't really bother me, surprisingly. Was just giving examples


To be fair, Edward Scissorhands IS a fairytale. Or, you know, a Tim Burton movie - NONE of it makes any sense! Nor is it supposed to - Burton's just not that kind of filmmaker.


< Message edited by chris kilby -- 12/8/2012 12:01:40 PM >

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Post #: 31
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 12:07:27 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

I'm reluctant to call a lot of these plot holes, because they don't actually affect the plot, they're just little slip-ups on the writer or directors part. Regardless, here are a couple more:

Cloverfield
How on Earth does the monster sneak up behind Hud without making a sound, or without Rob and Beth seeing it? This thing has just been pulverizing New York City for the last several hours.





Always been my problem with the film, I really like the film but it should have ended after the helicopter crash, the following two scenes only seem to be put in to show the audience what the creature really looks like but it's better viewed in the snippets we've seen previously.


This "stealth mode" thing is a common problem in films, if not a cliche. Things only making discernible sound when you can see them. How many times have you seen a helicopter suddenly roar into shot, catching a hero by surprise? A frickin' helicopter...!?!

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Post #: 32
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 12:12:23 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

Is this just a thinly-vieled extension of the TDKR/Seven discussion?


seems it, i think what chris kilby is trying to prove is all classic films have plot holes or questionable events in them. So everyone shouldn't be ganging up on TDKR for having some (imo it doesn't have many, a lot of flaws that have been popping up that have people complaining I think are explainable but that's me)


You could say that. I couldn't possibly comment...

Also, it just so happens I LOVE playing this game - obviously. I just try not to let it spoil my enjoyment of otherwise good (if flawed) films. Unless the filmmakers are taking the piss, of course. Michael Bay, for instance. Why, I oughtta...

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Post #: 33
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 12:36:45 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

I'm reluctant to call a lot of these plot holes, because they don't actually affect the plot, they're just little slip-ups on the writer or directors part.


That's the definition of a plot hole, surely? A plot hole (as opposed to a continuity error, say) is any gap or flaw which doesn't add up or make sense which, in extreme cases, threatens to sink the entire story - the willing suspension of disbelief notwithstanding. Bond villains not shooting Bond in the head, say. Simply flying to Mordor and dropping The One Ring into Mount Doom.

Kudos go to filmmakers who at least acknowledge their awareness of such storytelling absurdities and SNAFUs, though. The plan to just "nuke the sight from orbit" in Aliens. John McClane muttering (to no-one in particular) "How does the same shit happen to the same guy twice?" (I believe Spidey was also heard to mutter that recently.) And the odd character figuring out who Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight really is.

quote:

Regardless, here are a couple more:

Cloverfield
How on Earth does the monster sneak up behind Hud without making a sound, or without Rob and Beth seeing it? This thing has just been pulverizing New York City for the last several hours.


Yeah, you're gettin' it

quote:

Jurassic Park
The big one. How does the T-Rex paddock magically turn into a massive cliff?


Now, that's a plot hole. Actually, it's more a gaping chasm. So gaping, I never noticed it before!


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Post #: 34
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 12:50:57 PM   
Lazarus munkey


Posts: 1650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown
quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
JAWS
How does Bed Gardner’s head get back inside his boat? As a bemused Craig Kingsbury himself has pointed out, that was one conscientious shark, tidying up the ocean like that!


It's not a decapitated head, it's still attached to what's left of him. Which is probably very little.

I've never thought this was a decapitated head and who ever said that it left the boat at all? The shark could have eaten the rest while the head remained on the boat.



Sooooo... His eye just sort of... popped out then?


The shark wasn't necessarily responsible for the eye, just the death and damage to the boat.


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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 1:00:23 PM   
chris kilby

 

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Joined: 31/3/2010
See, that's what I don't understand. How could the shark have killed Ben Gardner yet still leave the remains in the boat? Let's face it - the only reason the head's still in the boat is to make the audience jump and that's good enough for the likes of me. (Jaws is still Spielberg's best film, you know. And I'm not just saying that cos it's the first film I ever saw at the cinema. I was five. It's also the best film I've seen at the cinema this year!)

If there had been an internet back then, do you suppose that "Ben Gardner's Head" would've been the "Cops Trapped Underground" of its day? Grud only knows what the online (over)reaction to "Who Shot Nice Guy Eddie?" would have been...

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 12/8/2012 1:01:32 PM >

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Post #: 36
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 1:24:12 PM   
Lazarus munkey


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Shark attacks boat & makes a hole through which Ben's leg slips to become shark's lunch. Ben bleeds to death and eels eat his eye.

Spielberg just emailed me to explain.

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Post #: 37
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 1:28:51 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4205
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Maybe the shark didn't kill him. As I said in a previous post I've always reckoned that Ben drowned as the shark attacked the boat, and then other creatures feasted on him, resulting in eye loss.

So, once again....


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

ROCKY
Speaking of Sly, how come Apollo Creed doesn’t whup Rocky’s white ass? As Wesley Snipes famously said – always bet on black. Unless you’re his accountant, obviously…


How is this a plot-hole?


It is highly implausible.


Perhaps. It is also a film where levels of plausability can be fairly subjective. It's less about plot-holes and more to do with willing suspension of disbelief. Plus Rocky doesn't actuallly win, and he still gets the crap kicked out of him.

quote:

quote:

JAWS
How does Bed Gardner’s head get back inside his boat? As a bemused Craig Kingsbury himself has pointed out, that was one conscientious shark, tidying up the ocean like that!


It's not a decapitated head, it's still attached to what's left of him. Which is probably very little.


quote:

Still doesn't explain how it got back onboard the boat. Did Bruce spit it out?



I never assumed Gardner was eaten by the shark. Perhaps the shark attacked the boat, Gardner drowned, and his body was feasted upon by various other denizens of the deep. That would explain his ocular condition.



< Message edited by DancingClown -- 12/8/2012 1:56:08 PM >


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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 1:43:25 PM   
vader100


Posts: 2339
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

I'm reluctant to call a lot of these plot holes, because they don't actually affect the plot, they're just little slip-ups on the writer or directors part.


Isn't a plot hole just a part of the plot that doesn't make sense? Something that essentially is the fault of the writer or director 'slipping up'? What I listed weren't just continuity goofs, they are actual faults in the logic of the plot making part of the film not make sense.


Yeah I guess you're right, what I mean is I just think there's a difference between those plot holes that actually have a substantial impact on the rest of the film, and simple mistakes. For example, there's a big plot hole in LOTR that could have solved the entire problem with the ring and rendered the films pointless, and that is the eagles just flying the ring to Mordor*. Whereas a movie mistake is something like the Cloverfield one I mentioned. It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't really affect the film in a big way.

*Just for the record, I love LOTR

quote:

Well, apart from the Happening one, I was just taking the piss there. Although, it would take a while just to list the plot holes in that mess


To save yourself time, you might want to try listing the parts that make sense.


Explained in the books. The eagles would have been seen off by the Nazgul on the flying lizards. They would have been at the height of their powers with Sauron behind them.


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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 1:58:55 PM   
DancingClown


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Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
So much of this has nothing to do with plot-holes; rather just an alternative interpretation of an event. Ben Gardener's 'head' being a prime example.

You know what....never mind, who fucking cares?

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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 2:08:59 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey

Shark attacks boat & makes a hole through which Ben's leg slips to become shark's lunch. Ben bleeds to death and eels eat his eye.

Spielberg just emailed me to explain.


The bastard! That's been bugging for - shit - 37 years!

(I don't know. He doesn't write. He doesn't call. Although there was that email I got from his attorney. Something to do with a "restraining order," I think. Whatever that is!)


< Message edited by chris kilby -- 7/10/2012 3:11:43 AM >

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Post #: 41
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 2:11:43 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

So much of this has nothing to do with plot-holes; rather just an alternative interpretation of an event. Ben Gardener's 'head' being a prime example.

You know what....never mind, who fucking cares?


Precisely.

(That was going to be the title of this thread, BTW. But I thought it sounded a bit needlessly confrontational. )


< Message edited by chris kilby -- 12/8/2012 7:23:04 PM >

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Post #: 42
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 7:18:51 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

Chuck Wepner - the real Rocky - didn't just "not win the fight." He looked like he'd been run over by a bulldozer driven by a dinosaur! After being battered with a hammer for a fortnight. And a professional boxing champ NOT training for a fight? Against anyone? Ridiculous!

But this is a movie. The script required the fictional character of Creed to be an arrogant sod. He, the fictional movie character, didn't take the fight seriously, he had so much faith in himself as a fighter that he thought he could wipe the floor of the new guy and show off while doing it. It makes absolutely no difference what happened to the guy that Rocky was loosely based on, it wasn't telling his story, it was telling Rockys. Also, Rocky didn't look too good at the end either.

quote:


Cheers, I'll have another look. (That T-Rex still musta been on stealth mode, though!)

Yeah, the stealth bit is annoying but I was only answering how it got in the building.

quote:


Fair enough. So what happened to the 'Raptors then? The T-Rex couldn't have got 'em if she was trapped in the hold. Sounds like Spielberg swapped one gaping plot hole for another. And where did these 'Raptors come from in the first place?

Exactly, it didn't make sense with the scene in or with the scene out. The whole film is a mess.

quote:


quote:

Oh, yay! Someone else who types in Scottish.....


Ye daft racist!

Heh. Do you know anything about me, Chris? I hear it every day, I don't need to read it too

quote:


Double hmmm...


Why double hmmm? It makes perfect sense. It took time a while to erase Marty and sort itself out in the first film, so why is this any different other than you don't like it?

quote:


You don't mean the cliffhanger ending do you? Pray, elaborate...


Nobody recognises Marty. They knew this guy for a week, one of them actually kissed him, he got him together yet none of them bat an eyelid that their son grew up to look just like him. Granted he's the youngest child but for all George knows, his wife met this guy again and had an affair.

quote:

To be fair, Edward Scissorhands IS a fairytale. Or, you know, a Tim Burton movie - NONE of it makes any sense! Nor is it supposed to - Burton's just not that kind of filmmaker.

Plenty of things in Burton films make sense within their worlds. Everything that happens in Beetlejuice makes sense in that world of Ghosts, everything in Sleepy Hollow makes sense in that world of gothic horror and while ES is a fairytale, none of it has been difficult to make sense of. I suppose you could just say 'fairytale, impossible character, so 'magic'' but there hasn't been any magic anywhere in the film, Edward himself isn't magic. It doesn't matter if it is a fairytale, it is still a hole in the plot given what I was made to believe in the film up until that point in time.

Although, everything in this thread could be answered with- it's just a movie....

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 12/8/2012 7:21:54 PM >


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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 7:35:36 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:


You don't mean the cliffhanger ending do you? Pray, elaborate...


Nobody recognises Marty. They knew this guy for a week, one of them actually kissed him, he got him together yet none of them bat an eyelid that their son grew up to look just like him. Granted he's the youngest child but for all George knows, his wife met this guy again and had an affair.


You know, that has bugged me for years as well. No-one ever says, "You know, son, you look just like another Marty we used to know. The guy we named you after, actually..." In fact, if I was George McFly, I'd probably say something along the lines of: "You shagged him, didn't you, you bitch? How long's this been going on for, eh?"

And let's not get into the whole ickily Oedipal thing. If I wanted to watch a fantasy where the leading man narrowly avoids shagging a relative, I'd watch Star Wars!


quote:

Although, everything in this thread could be answered with- it's just a movie....


Um... It is just possible I made that point myself at the top of the thread. It is just a bit of fun. (I could just as easily have called this thread "Why So Serious-uh?")


< Message edited by chris kilby -- 12/8/2012 7:42:35 PM >

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Post #: 44
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 9:31:05 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
Um... It is just possible I made that point myself at the top of the thread. It is just a bit of fun. (I could just as easily have called this thread "Why So Serious-uh?")



But nobody is actually taking it too seriously. You asked for examples and examples were given. I have littered my posts with sarcastic comments an jokes and there hasn't been any 'Empire Thursday' type moments, so- win! I said 'Although, everything in this thread could be answered with- it's just a movie...' in agreement with that point. Also, don't take this too seriously either, I'm just making a point, it has not been written in anger or with malice

If I personally was being uptight and serious, I would have said more about that 'racist' comment but I know you were messing around and I have learned to be more mellow these days

quote:

And let's not get into the whole ickily Oedipal thing. If I wanted to watch a fantasy where the leading man narrowly avoids shagging a relative, I'd watch Star Wars!


Ha, yeah. It's hard to avoid it though in Back to the Future, really. It is why Disney passed on the script


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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 9:40:31 PM   
Super Hans


Posts: 2394
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Die Hard With A Vengeance
Simon must really have a lot of faith in McClane to survive his tasks, especially the racially aggressive first one. What if John died or was beaten up and unable to complete the other tasks? Simon's entire plan relied on McClane, who was the distraction, surviving to the end so why put him in dangerous situations?



I never thought about that, but it's a very, very good point!

I'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation really, but from the second viewing of The Matrix onwards, my dad and I always thought it was odd that in the opening scene, the agents arrive at the scene in a car. Why bother? As we learn later on, they're well capable of morphing into the body of another "person" and do so a lot!

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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 12/8/2012 9:47:19 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Super Hans


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Die Hard With A Vengeance
Simon must really have a lot of faith in McClane to survive his tasks, especially the racially aggressive first one. What if John died or was beaten up and unable to complete the other tasks? Simon's entire plan relied on McClane, who was the distraction, surviving to the end so why put him in dangerous situations?



I never thought about that, but it's a very, very good point!


It has bugged me for years. It's not a huge plot point but if McClane got killed in Harlem it would not only be a short film for us, but for Simon too

quote:

I'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation really, but from the second viewing of The Matrix onwards, my dad and I always thought it was odd that in the opening scene, the agents arrive at the scene in a car. Why bother? As we learn later on, they're well capable of morphing into the body of another "person" and do so a lot!


I think that was so the film-makers didn't tip their hand too early. It was to make the audience think that they were normal agents at first. Watching it for the first time, you don't have the knowledge you would have on second viewing.


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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 13/8/2012 1:02:05 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
Um... It is just possible I made that point myself at the top of the thread. It is just a bit of fun. (I could just as easily have called this thread "Why So Serious-uh?")



But nobody is actually taking it too seriously.


Have you seen the Dark Knight Rises Review Thread...?

quote:

You asked for examples and examples were given. I have littered my posts with sarcastic comments an jokes and there hasn't been any 'Empire Thursday' type moments, so- win! I said 'Although, everything in this thread could be answered with- it's just a movie...' in agreement with that point. Also, don't take this too seriously either, I'm just making a point, it has not been written in anger or with malice


Relax. I didn't think for one second that you did. We're all friends here. And I don't take anything seriously, least of all myself. You've probably noticed. This is quite a light-hearted thread - at least I hope it is...

quote:

If I personally was being uptight and serious, I would have said more about that 'racist' comment but I know you were messing around and I have learned to be more mellow these days


Well thank Grud fer that.

quote:

quote:

And let's not get into the whole ickily Oedipal thing. If I wanted to watch a fantasy where the leading man narrowly avoids shagging a relative, I'd watch Star Wars!


Ha, yeah. It's hard to avoid it though in Back to the Future, really. It is why Disney passed on the script


Not right wing enough, probably.


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Post #: 48
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 13/8/2012 1:18:31 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
Have you seen the Dark Knight Rises Review Thread...?


No, I haven't seen the film. I was talking about this thread

quote:


Relax. I didn't think for one second that you did. We're all friends here. And I don't take anything seriously, least of all myself. You've probably noticed. This is quite a light-hearted thread - at least I hope it is..


The fact you said 'relax' makes me think you missed the point, somewhat

quote:

quote:

If I personally was being uptight and serious, I would have said more about that 'racist' comment but I know you were messing around and I have learned to be more mellow these days


Well thank Grud fer that.

I'm Scottish but I really don't like to read words spelt out in 'Scots', it's quite annoying. Saying it is fine, though, can't really help that, much


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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 13/8/2012 7:45:25 AM   
tommyjarvis


Posts: 6632
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Super Hans


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Die Hard With A Vengeance
Simon must really have a lot of faith in McClane to survive his tasks, especially the racially aggressive first one. What if John died or was beaten up and unable to complete the other tasks? Simon's entire plan relied on McClane, who was the distraction, surviving to the end so why put him in dangerous situations?



I never thought about that, but it's a very, very good point!



More to the point, what happens if McClane stays in the taxi with Zeus and both of them make it to the subway phone in time to take Simon's call (since Zeus made it there anyway)? How would Simon justify blowing up Wall Street then?

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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 13/8/2012 1:42:42 PM   
FoximusPrime

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 11/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: tommyjarvis


quote:

ORIGINAL: Super Hans


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Die Hard With A Vengeance
Simon must really have a lot of faith in McClane to survive his tasks, especially the racially aggressive first one. What if John died or was beaten up and unable to complete the other tasks? Simon's entire plan relied on McClane, who was the distraction, surviving to the end so why put him in dangerous situations?



I never thought about that, but it's a very, very good point!



More to the point, what happens if McClane stays in the taxi with Zeus and both of them make it to the subway phone in time to take Simon's call (since Zeus made it there anyway)? How would Simon justify blowing up Wall Street then?


There's also the fact that McClane's mate, Ricky, was in the car while the Feds briefed him about Simon Gruber - with photographs - but then fails to recognise New York's most wanted terrorist when he speaks to him in Wall Street. These guys explain it much better than me, with pictures too (click)

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RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 13/8/2012 2:12:12 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
Have you seen the Dark Knight Rises Review Thread...?


No, I haven't seen the film. I was talking about this thread


You're in for a treat then.

quote:

quote:


Relax. I didn't think for one second that you did. We're all friends here. And I don't take anything seriously, least of all myself. You've probably noticed. This is quite a light-hearted thread - at least I hope it is..


The fact you said 'relax' makes me think you missed the point, somewhat


Well, that's the internet for you.

quote:

quote:

quote:

If I personally was being uptight and serious, I would have said more about that 'racist' comment but I know you were messing around and I have learned to be more mellow these days


Well thank Grud fer that.

I'm Scottish but I really don't like to read words spelt out in 'Scots', it's quite annoying. Saying it is fine, though, can't really help that, much


Away an' bile yer heid!

(And, yes, I am aware there are little green men on far, distant worlds orbiting stars which have yet to be discovered by the Hubble telescope who just knew I was going to say that! Sorry. )


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Post #: 52
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 13/8/2012 3:46:20 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
Have you seen the Dark Knight Rises Review Thread...?


No, I haven't seen the film. I was talking about this thread


You're in for a treat then.


Ha. I know this place well enough to avoid that thread even after I've seen the film


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Post #: 53
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 13/8/2012 6:43:58 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54583
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

ALIENS
Apart from the death of her daughter, Ripley doesn't seem to suffer from any culture shock (or degenerative muscle-wastage) after waking up from her 57 year cryo-sleep. I think she'd have noticed a few changes which, given the exponential nature of technological advancement, is bound to be even more pronounced in the future, don't you? Imagine you'd woken up this morning after falling asleep in 1955. Like the Daily Mail...

If Weyland-Yutani knew about the alien all along why hadn't they already acquired one? After 57 years the company seemed to have forgotten all about LV-426. Indeed, after the not-entirely satisfying events of Prometheus, it turns out the company has known about the aliens a lot longer than that. Like 1969 when Erich von Daniken published Chariots of the Gods?


Ignoring the kak that is Prometheus, the fight between Burke and Ripley is entirely about them sending out the colonists knowingly - a whole group of hosts to get the alien back home.



Yeah. 57 years after the events of Alien and only after Ripley has alerted Burke to the Aliens' existence. So what happened? Did The Company just forget about the Aliens? Even if intel on the Aliens was on a need-to-know basis (or there was a shadowy "Company-within-The-Company") it's still a bit of a stretch whether you dismiss Prometheus as non-canonical kak or not.

Also, how far away was the Derelict from Hadley's Hope? Driving distance, certainly. How come no-one noticed it before? It was kinda hard to miss. And surely Weyland-Yutani would at least have done some kind of aerial reconnaissance of the area before plonking hundreds of colonists in the lions' den. Unless, of course, The Goddamn Company knew exactly what was there, the colonists were lambs to the slaughter and Burke (just a minor functionary in the grand scheme of things) was acting on his own initiative unaware of the bigger picture.

The Company still took its time about it, though. But only because Cameron needed that 57 year gap to facilitate the subplot about Ripley's daughter. If you removed that (and Ripley had just been "floating around out there" for ten years, say) then that plot hole would resolve itself but at the loss of a poignant subplot which resonates with Ripley's subsequently maternal relationship with surrogate daughter, Newt, but, ironically, was excised from Aliens on its theatrical release anyway.

Phew!



A lot of what I've read in here could probably come under

- people re-writing plots that don't have a problem but because they see a different film, and there's not necessarily a 'plot', they've just made up a world where their idea makes more sense, to them.

- people calling crap films on plot holes when the point is they, and the 'writing' are crap (and sod it I'm calling Cloverfield on that one).

- actual odd plot-holes. I'll give The Big Sleep as an example here because if the writers cop to it you know it's a good 'un.

If, however,  this is some way of trying to prove a point in a TDKR argument, then it should never have been dragged to another part of the Board. If people cared, they'd be in that thread. So I'm assuming it's not - which will be borne out by the lack of an ending along the lines of 'ah, since you all agree, then I was right in the TDKR thread'.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 54
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 13/8/2012 7:54:33 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1271
Joined: 31/3/2010
Well, clearly protracted discussion of The Dark Knight Rises means plot holes are at the forefront of my mind at the moment. I could hardly deny it. (Nothing exists in a vacuum - everything's connected, maaaaaaaaaaaaan!) But no, I genuinely love playing Spot-The-Plothole as you can see from my reviews. I just don't lose any sleep over them. I do it for cheap laughs not to score points or to feel superior. Kinda thought/hoped that was obvious was from the light-hearted tone of my original post.

I also enjoy playing Spot-The-Influence/Reference/Thematic Subtext as you can also see from my reviews. I'm that kind of a fanboy. It's only a movie. And it's just a bit of fun.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 13/8/2012 7:59:26 PM >

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Post #: 55
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 14/8/2012 1:03:58 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Pretty shocking that none of you have mentioned the daddy of plot holes.

In Citizen Kane how does the jounalist know that Kane's last word was Rosebud when there was no one around to hear it?

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Post #: 56
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 14/8/2012 1:07:01 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Pretty shocking that none of you have mentioned the daddy of plot holes.

In Citizen Kane how does the jounalist know that Kane's last word was Rosebud when there was no one around to hear it?


I was going to but I had only read about it, I have never actually seen the film so I didn't think I should.


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(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 57
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 14/8/2012 1:10:04 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
There is a school of thought that this isn't a plot hole - that reference by the butler to the "other time" he heard Kane say Rosebud is evidence. But nothing concrete.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 14/8/2012 9:48:51 AM >


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Post #: 58
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 14/8/2012 1:27:18 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Yeah, that is why I didn't mention it, I read about the doubt regarding the butler.

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Post #: 59
RE: What Are Your Favourite Plot Holes...? - 14/8/2012 7:12:11 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2487
Joined: 11/2/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Die Hard With A Vengeance
Simon must really have a lot of faith in McClane to survive his tasks, especially the racially aggressive first one. What if John died or was beaten up and unable to complete the other tasks? Simon's entire plan relied on McClane, who was the distraction, surviving to the end so why put him in dangerous situations?


The same thing applies to The Matrix Reloaded.
The Architect needs Neo to fulfill his task and get back to the source. Yet the whole system does its very best to try and kill him.

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 60
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