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RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:11:56 PM

elab49

Posts: 51638
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At some point is someone going to remember God Bless America and pull it from cinemas?

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Post #: 61

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:18:02 PM

boaby

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From: Aberdeenshire

Unsurprisingly, Obama was spreading on a liberal (or should that be conservative?) dollop of the God stuff in his speech in Florida.

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Post #: 62

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:37:18 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

The ITV news reporter covering the story for their 6 o'clock news report just punned that it was a "Dark Night" for those involved. Classy, huh?

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Post #: 63

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:38:34 PM

elab49

Posts: 51638
Joined: 1/10/2005

Their editors need to put the foot down on this now - it's pretty sick.

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Post #: 64

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:46:36 PM

Posts: 3506
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From: two counties east of home

I am absolutely horrified about this. I would be horrified anyway but I think I feel worse about this because, well, going to midnight screenings is something me & my friends would do, it's very much a film-fan thing. I would empathise anyway but I think I do so even more because of this.

My other half said something along the lines of "that's the problem with having a liberal policy on guns" but I disagree. It doesn't have to be guns. I was in a cinema once when I had to get security to remove an incredibly creepy guy dressed in dark clothing who kept moving around the cinema and periodically shouted and ranted. He had mental health problems I think but let me tell you, I was absolutely terrified (particularly as he kept sitting almost directly behind me). The audience were terrified too, but no one did anything, partly, I think out of fear. In the end I figured that for all I knew he could have a knife or anything so I went for help. When security came in, he had moved, but the audience, en masse, pointed to where he was, and he almost leapt at the security guy. As they were 8 security people, they very effectively corralled him out, but it made me think about how vulnerable we are in a cinema - sitting in the dark, everyone facing forwards, I mean we're sitting ducks if anyone goes beserk. But you cannot lead your life wondering if someone's going to do something like that, can you?

This is a terrible attack, and when I go and see Dark Knight Rises in IMAX 2 weeks from today, I will certainly be thinking of those people who just wanted to see a film they were really excited about but who were killed, injured or just mentally traumatised by the whole thing.

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Post #: 65

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:23:10 PM

Sutty

Posts: 3541
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: the front row

I'm reminded of a quote from the movie Scream...

"Movies don't create psycho's. Movies make psycho's more inventive."

You can just see the clamour for this flick to now be banned coming from around the corner. I can certainly see a scenario where certain "right-on, namby pamby" groups of the media etc demand the movie be pulled from cinemas for fear of copycat incidents. Incidents which I do NOT see happening. It takes a special type of sickness and vileness to do something like this.

What I don't get is how, in this day and age, someone like that can pass through society. For someone to be considered a "Lone Wolf", drop out of medical school after one year, go out and obtain automatic weapons and firearms of various types, gas masks, canisters, and exposives. And then become educated enough to become "sophisticated" with these explosives enough to cause a professional bomb squad to take several days to work around them. How on earth is someone like this not seen as a problem and dealt with? He wasn't even on a watchlist.

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Post #: 66

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:34:32 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9864
Joined: 30/9/2005

There is no chance in hell the movie is getting pulled. There is zero point in even considering it being an issue.

The film will make at the low end $180 million, at the high end $215 million this weekend. As horrible as this event is the amount of people directly affected by it is a drop in the ocean compared to the millions of people who will see this movie this weekend.

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Post #: 67

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:38:44 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

There is no chance in hell the movie is getting pulled. There is zero point in even considering it being an issue.

The film will make at the low end $180 million, at the high end $215 million this weekend. As horrible as this event is the amount of people directly affected by it is a drop in the ocean compared to the millions of people who will see this movie this weekend.

Well if we're now going off topic and into how this tragedy will affect the BO figures I'm reckoning the parents of America (particularly the more reactionary ones) will possibly be blocking their kids from seeing it this weekend. So in that regard I think TDKR will lose weekend money over this. Not that its important.

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Post #: 68

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:53:18 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9864
Joined: 30/9/2005

I was using the box office to show how big this film is and how impossible it will be to pull it.

I don't think this event will have any significant impact on its box office. People who want to see the film won't be put off by this.

Of course if the film under-performs to people's overzealous expectations in any way I fully expect this to be the first reason given as to why.

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Post #: 69

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:54:44 PM

paul_ie86

Posts: 11207
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You're talking about box office? Really?

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Post #: 70

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:21:58 PM

MrsFinkelstein

Posts: 150
Joined: 29/2/2012

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/20/bloomberg-demands-gun-action-from-obama-and-romney/

Bloomberg has come out and called for gun control, as he has on previous occasions. I find the comments below quite sad with the amount of people defending the second amendment.

Yes someone with a knife could cause injury, but never to the same extent. And if you 'need' a weapon for home protection - why not just a pistol, why a frikkin semi automatic, or a bloody huge hunting rifle??

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Post #: 71

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:26:39 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19969
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

I am always reminded of Eddie Izzard's commentary on guns (here tho some may find the comedy insensitive given the freshness of this story).

"They say 'gun's don't kill people: people kill people'. But I think the gun helps."

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Post #: 72

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:31:01 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/warner-bros-considers-cancellation-dark-knight-rises-screenings-48571

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Post #: 73

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:32:11 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18905
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/warner-bros-considers-cancellation-dark-knight-rises-screenings-48571

They confirmed this isn't happening.

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Post #: 74

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 9:54:59 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

In New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly, who said he had been briefed on the case, said the suspect had dyed his hair red and told police after his arrest that he was the Joker, one of Batman's most famous opponents.

Nutter couldn't even get the hair colour right, twat.

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Post #: 75

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 11:24:40 PM

Shifty Bench

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Post #: 76

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 12:25:45 AM

Shifty Bench

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Chris Nolan's response- click

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RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 4:44:23 AM

TheFuzz_1989

Posts: 399
Joined: 16/9/2010

Terrible, terrible event. As Nolan said, the cinema is a special place for a lot of people, and this man, wether intentionally or not, has violated this space with violence and death. That is what will truly horrify people about this crime, and I can't imagine some of the victims going near a cinema for a long while.

The man had four guns. Four. An AK assault rifle, shotgun and two handguns. Fuck me, just a handgun would be enough to kill 15.

The last tweet ever from victim Jessica Redfield reads "MOVIE DOESNT START FOR 20 MINUTES"

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Post #: 78

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 5:16:58 AM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFuzz_1989

The man had four guns. Four. An AK assault rifle, shotgun and two handguns.

Which he all bought legally.

God bless America...

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Post #: 79

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 5:25:12 AM

Lazarus munkey

Posts: 1651
Joined: 20/3/2006
From: out of nowhere

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/warner-bros-considers-cancellation-dark-knight-rises-screenings-48571

They confirmed this isn't happening.

I doubt that it was seriously considered but they have to be seen to be keeping the option open.

I expect the tabloids to be talking about the 'curse of Batman' over the weekend and dropping Heath Ledger into the copy.

The really sad thing is, even with the comparative frequency of appalling events such as this, any US administration will not change the laws on firearms because it will lose votes. How many have to die before the nation realises that this is not something that happens to an abstract statistic quoted by the tv but is suffered by real human beings?

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Post #: 80

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 8:09:04 AM

sanchia

Posts: 16722
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsFinkelstein

The US really need to start getting their act together with gun laws - how many more shooting incidents does there have to be before they realise not everyone needs guns/automatic weapons?

Sadly they'll allow tragedies like this to happen because being told what you can and cannot have by the 'dreaded Government' is more terrifying to them. Land of the free and the cult-of-the-individual and all that.

The American Libertarian ideology says the individual is to blame here, not everybody else who has a gun in their house.

Which is true, but he'd have been a less harmful individual had he not been able to buy a gun!

And ironically they'll say they need guns for their protection from individuals like him. The entire country needs a change of ideology never-mind legislation. It'd take years!

Apparently that is what is happening. There was a ban on people carrying guns in the cinema (sadly the nutter did not listen to that ban) and the news this morning was reporting the usual gun nuts are apparently coming out stating if they had been allowed to take guns into the cinema fewer would have been shot.

They handily skirt over the fact that all the guns ands ammo used were purchased legally.

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RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 8:39:33 AM

BigKovacs

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From: Textile Street.

Lol. That would have helped, more armed people in a dark room full of kids and tear gas.

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Post #: 82

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 8:50:18 AM

sanchia

Posts: 16722
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

I also see the papers are trying to nickname him The Joker.

Doing that gives him fame which is probably what he was seeking like that evil git Breivik.

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Post #: 83

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 9:33:01 AM

Prophet_of_Doom

Posts: 727
Joined: 15/2/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigKovacs

Lol. That would have helped, more armed people in a dark room full of kids and tear gas.

Exactly. It's incredible that supposedly intelligent politicians, high-profile religious leaders etc are coming out with this nonsense. Even a child could tell you that this isn't the Wild West or the movies. It's such an infantile belief that you just take out your gun, aim and POW, bye bye bad guy. Soldiers, armed police etc train for months so that they can discharge a firearm under duress, but these people seem to assume that a terrified civilian with a gun will just be able to 'take out' the assailant. While, of course, the most likely scenario is that in their panic they accidentally kill another couple of people, before being killed themselves. Increase that by two or three civilians with guns and it would have been absolute carnage. It's astonishing how unbelievably idiotic people can be.

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Post #: 84

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 9:49:39 AM

Dpp1978

Posts: 1012
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsFinkelstein

The US really need to start getting their act together with gun laws - how many more shooting incidents does there have to be before they realise not everyone needs guns/automatic weapons?

Sadly they'll allow tragedies like this to happen because being told what you can and cannot have by the 'dreaded Government' is more terrifying to them. Land of the free and the cult-of-the-individual and all that.

The American Libertarian ideology says the individual is to blame here, not everybody else who has a gun in their house.

Which is true, but he'd have been a less harmful individual had he not been able to buy a gun!

And ironically they'll say they need guns for their protection from individuals like him. The entire country needs a change of ideology never-mind legislation. It'd take years!

Apparently that is what is happening. There was a ban on people carrying guns in the cinema (sadly the nutter did not listen to that ban) and the news this morning was reporting the usual gun nuts are apparently coming out stating if they had been allowed to take guns into the cinema fewer would have been shot.

They handily skirt over the fact that all the guns ands ammo used were purchased legally.

I'm no fan of civilian gun ownership but I'm not sure stricter laws on gun control would help in these sorts of cases.

"Regular" shootings; which are, happily, rare enough here that they almost always make the news, but disturbingly common in the US would be affected. This in itself is a good enough argument for tighter laws. But this sort of planned mass shooting by a deeply disturbed individual which are, thankfully rare even in the States, would probably still occur.

It is the planning aspect which raises the question. In the inquiry into our most infamous mass shooting at Dunblane psychologists stated that the sort of person who would carry out such an attack would fantasise over it, planning it in every detail for a long period beforehand. They stated that if denied the ability to procure the items necessary to carry out their plans lawfully they would do so illicitly. They were in no doubt Hamilton would have procured illegal firearms had his lawfully held ones been taken away. Getting guns in the UK is not difficult if you really want them and don't care about the risks. After all it is easier to get a real gun illegally in the UK than it is to get a realistic imitation gun lawfully.

What I will agree on is that it would take a massive shift in ideology for there to be any significant tightening of US firearms laws. If anything it is more likely to go the other way.

The love affair with guns is one of the things, along with their cult of flag worship, about American culture we Brits just don't understand as there isn't anything similar here.

Perhaps that is understandable. Our most significant revolutions have been politically rather than militarily fought. Theirs was fought by largely civilian militias on the battle field. We have had a standing professional army for so long civilian militias seems charmingly obsolete: look at how we perceive the Home Guard in World War II. In the US they are still seen, at least in some circles, as a necessary check against tyranny.

In any case you cannot legislate for the lunatic fringe of society. Even if you try they will ignore it so what's the point? A person who will happily shoot into a crowd of innocent strangers is not worried about the lesser criminal acts they may commit along the way.

That isn't to say I agree with the NRA: that less people would have been killed or wounded. With more bullets flying I suspect more people would have gotten in their way. In that sort of confusion the last thing you need is a bunch of untrained Dirty Harry wannabes amped up on adrenaline playing hero.

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Post #: 85

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 10:08:16 AM

elab49

Posts: 51638
Joined: 1/10/2005

What should have been a flag, surely, is this description of the other gear he was wearing - it sounded far to upscale for some kind of army surplus (although I'd hope an army surplus wouldn't be selling that kind of gear to civilians anyway). So I'm not so sure about the procuring illicitly part though. They'd have to be the kind of person who could access that, and a normal non-criminal - where would they start? And this kind of mass killer isn't a criminal.

For Dunblane a lot of the discussion around that hail mary in the report was trying to ease some of the pressure of the criticism on the police - 'even if serious and significant mistakes hadn't been made by the police providing licences they were really really honestly sure he'd have gotten weapons anyway, so please stop being nasty to the silly policemen now' type thing.

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RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 10:24:57 AM

sanchia

Posts: 16722
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

Also if he did have to procure the weapons illegally they would have been far more expensive (maybe making him less capable of obtaining them) and far far more difficult to obtain (he bought over 1000 bullets legally from the internet).

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Post #: 87

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 10:40:15 AM

elab49

Posts: 51638
Joined: 1/10/2005

The police also said he seems to have mortar rounds in his apartment - possibly there was illegal activity going on to? Or am I just over-optimistic in assuming those can't possibly be legal.

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Post #: 88

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 10:50:28 AM

Dpp1978

Posts: 1012
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

What should have been a flag, surely, is this description of the other gear he was wearing - it sounded far to upscale for some kind of army surplus (although I'd hope an army surplus wouldn't be selling that kind of gear to civilians�anyway). So I'm not so sure about the procuring illicitly part though. They'd have to be the kind of person who could access that, and a normal non-criminal - where would they start? And this kind of mass killer isn't a criminal.

http://www.armynavysales.com/

First hit on Google and it has everything your would be spree killer could need.

If the average citizen can get automatic assault weapons in Colorado why doubt they can get anything else they might want. And over the internet too.

quote:

For Dunblane a lot of the discussion around that hail mary in the report was trying to ease some of the pressure of the criticism on the police - 'even if serious and significant mistakes hadn't been made by the police providing licences they were really really honestly sure he'd have gotten weapons anyway, so please stop being nasty to the silly policemen now' type thing.

I can't agree with that. I did my undergrad dissertation on gun control post Dunblane and its effect on gun crime. I read the Cullen Report cover to cover more than once.

The Police at the time had no power to withhold the licences. There was a presumption a licence would be granted unless good reason was found they shouldn't: suspicion the applicant was not suitable was not enough. They also had insufficient powers to remove the guns: again suspicions of unsuitability were not enough.

It was the law that was at fault not the Police whatever the criticisms in the press might have been.

The report suggested that the presumption should be that a licence would not be granted unless the applicant could show good reason to have one. An eminently practical solution which was put into law.

There was never any suggestion in the report that handguns should be banned; in fact it was explicitly deemed unnecessary. That bit of law was purely based on political needs: to pacify the vocal public outrage and provide a comfort blanket to trick the public into believing they were safer.

They were not. In fact violent gun crime went up in the 10 years after these laws came into force.

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Post #: 89

RE: Shooting in Denver at Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 10:57:58 AM

sanchia

Posts: 16722
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

What should have been a flag, surely, is this description of the other gear he was wearing - it sounded far to upscale for some kind of army surplus (although I'd hope an army surplus wouldn't be selling that kind of gear to civilians�anyway). So I'm not so sure about the procuring illicitly part though. They'd have to be the kind of person who could access that, and a normal non-criminal - where would they start? And this kind of mass killer isn't a criminal.

http://www.armynavysales.com/

First hit on Google and it has everything your would be spree killer could need.

If the average citizen can get automatic assault weapons in Colorado why doubt they can get anything else they might want. And over the internet too.

Considering in the US it is legal to have armour piercing and incendiary rounds if you are a hunter I very much doubt there is much they cannot purchase legally.

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