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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 24/7/2012 5:05:47 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lang


Just listening to the spoiler podcast, pretty good but shame on the person that asked

'How does Bane eat?'

the answer given by the guys actually had me in tears


Strangely the cleanliness of Gotham wasn't mentioned but the above question was....

I'm crying with laughter at the bit when they're discussing all the cops going into the sewers

Cop: "Who do we send in?"

Oldman: "EV-EVRY-ONE!!!!!"

(in reply to Lang)
Post #: 211
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 24/7/2012 7:21:43 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20120
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
This isn't quite Girvan's 3,000 words, but it's close.

I've also written a bit about the other two Batman films in the Dark Knight Trilogy, and the link for all can be found in my signature.


The difficult third act. Always so hard to get right. The Dark Knight ends on similar tone and feeling to that other great second act, The Empire Strikes Back. Characters in peril, split up, a future uncertain. The Dark Knight Rises is the perfect conclusion to a nigh-on perfect trilogy.

Eight years have passed since the end of The Dark Knight. In the wake of Dent’s death, the Dent Act has passed, and it has effectively cleared up crime in the city. Batman is not only not welcome, he’s not needed. Bruce Wayne is pining for his lost love, Rachel, unaware of her changing affections before her death, andhas become a Howard Hughes-like recluse. Into this Gotham of idealism comes chaos once more. Bane, a masked mystery, intent on blowing up the city. Selina Kyle, a petty thief with a big reach. And a shadowy past catching up with Batman, fast.

How does one replace a villain as iconic and memorable as the Joker? Well, one doesn’t. The Joker was Batman’s equal intellectually. Always ahead of Batman, always one step beyond his reach until Batman changes the rules of the game. Bane is Batman’s equal physically. Arguably his superior. After eight years Bruce Wayne is almost a cripple. His leg bones have little cartilage left, and he needs a cane. After Selina Kyle steals Wayne’s prints to sell on to one his board-members who has a questionable agreement with Bane, Bruce Wayne realises that things are changing. Commissioner Gordon is conflicted: his actions saved the city, but they destroyed his family. He had to praise and idolise the monster that would have killed his wife and son. They left. A broken man, he needs to unburden himself, but not at the cost of betraying the city he has helped to restore. That city has changed. In Batman Begins it is unrecognisable as a real city; in The Dark Knight it resembles Chicago. Here it is more akin to New York. Chicago has history with crime – gangsters and so forth, more so in the popular consciousness than New York. That changing vision of Gotham reflects the changing atmosphere within the city.

The storyline of The Dark Knight Rises is deceptively simple. Villain appears, threatens to destroy city, appears to have Batman beaten, who then returns stronger than ever to save the day. It’s clichéd, but Nolan’s skill is in presenting it – as he ever has – in a manner that seems fresh, new, and relevant. Bane is arguably his most fantastical character. Tom Hardy, behind a mask for all but a fleeting glimpse, does wonderful things with the character. Many will comment on the voice. It is unusual. It’s two parts Sean Connery, one part Daniel Plainview, and yet neither of those. People will either hate it, or love it. Or both over the course of the film. It took me some time to get used to it, but as I grew accustomed to the unusual modulations Hardy gives the voice, it became so utterly perfect. It’s a mix of hilarious and chilling, and that combination makes it even more chilling again. There’s a nonchalance to the way he says the most horrifying things. The look and sound of Bane is so absolutely bonkers that it just works. The mask, and its use, is what is fantastical. There are almost certainly more ordinary ways to maintain a pain-free existence, but excusing the mask comes for the reasons many assume it only has: menace and fear. And that is all the reason one needs. He builds up a mystery and myth about him which is more troubling and unusual than the Joker’s even. As Selina Kyle, Anne Hathaway produces a performance a world away from Michelle Pfeiffer’s. As a 12 yr old watching Batman Returns, Michelle Pfeiffer made an indelible impression, but as has previously been mentioned, Nolan’s Batfilms are a world away from Burton’s, so it is entirely possible for both Catwomen to live side by side. Here, Kyle is literally a cat-burglar, unassuming, lithe, seductive, and dangerous. Hathaway gets the balance right, and the costume designer gets the costume right. How does one dress as a cat without it looking silly? Tight black clothing makes sense for a thief. A mask makes sense for a thief. But the ears? Enhanced vision goggles flip up and, hey presto, they look like ears. It really is quite perfect. Kyle’s journey is one of villain in an unintentional way, to unlikely saviour. The duality of her relationship with Batman is well-played here. Not quite as on-the-nose as the “mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it…” exchange, but subtly. Batman recognises elements of himself in her. Most notably the moment that she disappears as his back is turned – although he really didn’t need to maintain his Batvoice for that quip: no-one was around to hear him speak.

A note about the Batvoice, as I’ve not mentioned it thus far. Personally, it makes perfect sense. Why bother to mask your appearance if you do not mask your voice? At times it can sound silly, granted, but Bale pitches it well here.

Nolan stated somewhere, at some point, that he didn’t want to include Robin. And yet… Joseph Gordon-Levitt plays Officer Blake, an orphan who had a run in with Bruce Wayne in his youth, after Wayne had set up a trust for orphaned children in Gotham. A canny young man, he uses his own emotional experience to work out that the state of mind being orphaned at a young age does to a person is conducive to the drive that could make a man become Batman, because he recognised it in himself. Through the film, Batman/Wayne uses Blake to assist him, tutor him, talks to him about the need for a mask, because it is symbolic, and it protects those closest to you. He is, quite clearly, mentoring Blake for…something. The unnecessary revelation of Blake’s real name is disappointing, but is not a massive issue. By the end Blake has discovered the Batcave and there is a clear sense of a continuation. Not one that needs to be filmed, but a sense that Gotham will be in safe hands, should any further villains come its way in the future.

But I am getting ahead of myself. Batman must first face Bane. Unprepared, mentally and physically, Bane bests him and, a rarity in such things, gives a valid and believable reason for not killing him. Instead, he leaves him in a prison in Asia, inescapable, with a near-broken back, and a near-broken spirit. Meanwhile Bane lays waste to much of Gotham and takes control of a neutron reactor core which, with the help of Useful But Expendable Scientist, he turns into a bomb. A bomb which, triggered or not, will detonate in five months. Five months for Gotham to decay, for Batman to lose all hope, and for the Scarecrow (a returning Cillian Murphy) to hold court for all crimes with the Hobson’s Choice of “exile, or death…by exile”. This middle act sees the police force marooned largely in the sewers, fed through grates by the few remaining above, the populace of Gotham cowering in their houses, and Batman discovering about Bane while festering in the pit prison.

The latter two Batman films are, for Nolan, narratively straight. While Batman Begins flicks across times, he straightens out the narrative in the two Dark Knight films to make room for the densely packed parallel stories. There is so much going on here, to play with time would be to confuse matters. And there is much reference to the previous two films. The Dark Knight Rises brings together all the story strands and forms a cohesive trilogy. The Dark Knight felt like a very different film to Batman Begins, but here in The Dark Knight Rises, Nolan pulls aspects from Batman Begins – Ra’s Al Ghul, Scarecrow – and The Dark Knight – the city’s state and Batman’s departure are direct consequences of the actions within that sequel – and in so doing encircles the films to create a true trilogy. Not three separate “adventures of Batman”, but a single, immense story, which on repeat viewings is going to be incredibly satisfying.

About the ending. I, it is fairly well-known around those who know me, do not see twists. I did not see that Bane is Ra’s Al Ghul’s son (he isn’t, but it was initially presented as such). I did not see that the mercenary is Ra’s Al Ghul. I did not see that Miranda Tate (Marion Cotillard, dazzling as ever) was Talia Al Ghul. Her betrayal – so distasteful after Bruce had bedded her – came out of left-field. (I think I get more out of films for not seeing twists. I see the film as the filmmakers intended.) That she chose to stab him brought another line from The Dark Knight added relevance. In creating the new suit that would allow him greater flexibility – including being able to turn his neck, finally – Lucius Fox (Morgan Freeman, lending every film auto-gravitas) mentioned in passing that it wouldn’t protect him from a knife. The inference was the Joker, who had a preference for knives, but that was a red herring. Here is the glorious pay-off to that line, four of our years later, and about four hours in film time later. This is the sort of care and attention that creates a trilogy that works. One in which preceding films work after seeing subsequent ones. Consistency is king.
Some days, you just can’t get rid of a bomb.
The debate over whether Batman was in the Bat or not when the bomb exploded should not need to happen. There are clues, lines about the autopilot which make it clear: he lied to fake his death, to create a martyr of Batman, to return a symbol of hope to Gotham. Batman had returned and proved himself worthy, to be the hope that Gotham needs. His death gives Batman immortality in the hearts and minds of the people of Gotham. Alfred’s story about his café in Italy means that Bruce knows where to find him, what to do. It is not the hopeful self-delusion of an old man: else Alfred would have imagined him there all those years that Bruce was away, training with Ra’s Al Ghul. Alfred never falsely imagined Bruce was there the first time – seeing it was someone else was key – so the second time, when it is Bruce, it really is him. It gives Bruce the happy ending, the life that he so sorely deserved. Gotham has the legend of Batman for idealism. And it has the actuality of a potential replacement in Blake. Whether he takes over as a new Batman, or as Robin, or as Nightwing, is not important. It is not for this film, or this series. It is the hope that he represents that allows Bruce to move away from Gotham, to create the life he wants.

As a trilogy, The Dark Knight Trilogy works so perfectly. There is a clear structure to each film, as he bests each villain during the course of that film. But there is also an overarching structure to the whole trilogy: Batman begins, Batman triumphs and falls, Batman returns and rises. It provides a realistic setting for a fantastical story. Nolan has successfully placed a superhero film within the structure of a world we can recognise. Political or sociological considerations are secondary: Nolan has been on record saying there is no intended political subtext. But anyone reading one into the films is welcome to, I’d imagine. Spider-Man and Superman live in worlds very like our own, but clearly not. If a radioactive – or genetically-enhanced – spider bites you, you get ill. Aliens do not, so far as we know absolutely, exist. (Belief is another thing.) But everything within Nolan’s universe can happen. It can be real. Unbelievable and impossible are two very different things, and Nolan explores the gulf between the two. There is a heightened reality, but it is nevertheless a reality. While there is little to touch the Three Colours Trilogy, since many other fine trilogies are no longer such – Indiana Jones, Die Hard, etc – it is not beyond the realms of possibilities to claim now that this is one of the finest trilogies to grace the big screen. (I speak of “true trilogies”, not the looser “three films by the same director on a loose theme” that seems to count sometimes.)

The films are not flawless. But it seems nitpicky and negative to focus on those when I did not feel that any of those flaws upset the overall tone of each scene in which they occurred. There will be those that go the easy route of accusing me of being a “Nolan fanboy”, which seems needlessly reductive. I am a fan of Nolan’s films because they are, almost in their entirety, a substantial body of work. I am a fan of high quality films, and these represent three of those, which together form a near peerless trilogy.
A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification. He can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can’t stop you, then you become something else entirely.



_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 212
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 24/7/2012 8:25:46 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3118
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

This isn't quite Girvan's 3,000 words, but it's close.

I've also written a bit about the other two Batman films in the Dark Knight Trilogy, and the link for all can be found in my signature.


The difficult third act. Always so hard to get right. The Dark Knight ends on similar tone and feeling to that other great second act, The Empire Strikes Back. Characters in peril, split up, a future uncertain. The Dark Knight Rises is the perfect conclusion to a nigh-on perfect trilogy.

Eight years have passed since the end of The Dark Knight. In the wake of Dent’s death, the Dent Act has passed, and it has effectively cleared up crime in the city. Batman is not only not welcome, he’s not needed. Bruce Wayne is pining for his lost love, Rachel, unaware of her changing affections before her death, andhas become a Howard Hughes-like recluse. Into this Gotham of idealism comes chaos once more. Bane, a masked mystery, intent on blowing up the city. Selina Kyle, a petty thief with a big reach. And a shadowy past catching up with Batman, fast.

How does one replace a villain as iconic and memorable as the Joker? Well, one doesn’t. The Joker was Batman’s equal intellectually. Always ahead of Batman, always one step beyond his reach until Batman changes the rules of the game. Bane is Batman’s equal physically. Arguably his superior. After eight years Bruce Wayne is almost a cripple. His leg bones have little cartilage left, and he needs a cane. After Selina Kyle steals Wayne’s prints to sell on to one his board-members who has a questionable agreement with Bane, Bruce Wayne realises that things are changing. Commissioner Gordon is conflicted: his actions saved the city, but they destroyed his family. He had to praise and idolise the monster that would have killed his wife and son. They left. A broken man, he needs to unburden himself, but not at the cost of betraying the city he has helped to restore. That city has changed. In Batman Begins it is unrecognisable as a real city; in The Dark Knight it resembles Chicago. Here it is more akin to New York. Chicago has history with crime – gangsters and so forth, more so in the popular consciousness than New York. That changing vision of Gotham reflects the changing atmosphere within the city.

The storyline of The Dark Knight Rises is deceptively simple. Villain appears, threatens to destroy city, appears to have Batman beaten, who then returns stronger than ever to save the day. It’s clichéd, but Nolan’s skill is in presenting it – as he ever has – in a manner that seems fresh, new, and relevant. Bane is arguably his most fantastical character. Tom Hardy, behind a mask for all but a fleeting glimpse, does wonderful things with the character. Many will comment on the voice. It is unusual. It’s two parts Sean Connery, one part Daniel Plainview, and yet neither of those. People will either hate it, or love it. Or both over the course of the film. It took me some time to get used to it, but as I grew accustomed to the unusual modulations Hardy gives the voice, it became so utterly perfect. It’s a mix of hilarious and chilling, and that combination makes it even more chilling again. There’s a nonchalance to the way he says the most horrifying things. The look and sound of Bane is so absolutely bonkers that it just works. The mask, and its use, is what is fantastical. There are almost certainly more ordinary ways to maintain a pain-free existence, but excusing the mask comes for the reasons many assume it only has: menace and fear. And that is all the reason one needs. He builds up a mystery and myth about him which is more troubling and unusual than the Joker’s even. As Selina Kyle, Anne Hathaway produces a performance a world away from Michelle Pfeiffer’s. As a 12 yr old watching Batman Returns, Michelle Pfeiffer made an indelible impression, but as has previously been mentioned, Nolan’s Batfilms are a world away from Burton’s, so it is entirely possible for both Catwomen to live side by side. Here, Kyle is literally a cat-burglar, unassuming, lithe, seductive, and dangerous. Hathaway gets the balance right, and the costume designer gets the costume right. How does one dress as a cat without it looking silly? Tight black clothing makes sense for a thief. A mask makes sense for a thief. But the ears? Enhanced vision goggles flip up and, hey presto, they look like ears. It really is quite perfect. Kyle’s journey is one of villain in an unintentional way, to unlikely saviour. The duality of her relationship with Batman is well-played here. Not quite as on-the-nose as the “mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it…” exchange, but subtly. Batman recognises elements of himself in her. Most notably the moment that she disappears as his back is turned – although he really didn’t need to maintain his Batvoice for that quip: no-one was around to hear him speak.

A note about the Batvoice, as I’ve not mentioned it thus far. Personally, it makes perfect sense. Why bother to mask your appearance if you do not mask your voice? At times it can sound silly, granted, but Bale pitches it well here.

Nolan stated somewhere, at some point, that he didn’t want to include Robin. And yet… Joseph Gordon-Levitt plays Officer Blake, an orphan who had a run in with Bruce Wayne in his youth, after Wayne had set up a trust for orphaned children in Gotham. A canny young man, he uses his own emotional experience to work out that the state of mind being orphaned at a young age does to a person is conducive to the drive that could make a man become Batman, because he recognised it in himself. Through the film, Batman/Wayne uses Blake to assist him, tutor him, talks to him about the need for a mask, because it is symbolic, and it protects those closest to you. He is, quite clearly, mentoring Blake for…something. The unnecessary revelation of Blake’s real name is disappointing, but is not a massive issue. By the end Blake has discovered the Batcave and there is a clear sense of a continuation. Not one that needs to be filmed, but a sense that Gotham will be in safe hands, should any further villains come its way in the future.

But I am getting ahead of myself. Batman must first face Bane. Unprepared, mentally and physically, Bane bests him and, a rarity in such things, gives a valid and believable reason for not killing him. Instead, he leaves him in a prison in Asia, inescapable, with a near-broken back, and a near-broken spirit. Meanwhile Bane lays waste to much of Gotham and takes control of a neutron reactor core which, with the help of Useful But Expendable Scientist, he turns into a bomb. A bomb which, triggered or not, will detonate in five months. Five months for Gotham to decay, for Batman to lose all hope, and for the Scarecrow (a returning Cillian Murphy) to hold court for all crimes with the Hobson’s Choice of “exile, or death…by exile”. This middle act sees the police force marooned largely in the sewers, fed through grates by the few remaining above, the populace of Gotham cowering in their houses, and Batman discovering about Bane while festering in the pit prison.

The latter two Batman films are, for Nolan, narratively straight. While Batman Begins flicks across times, he straightens out the narrative in the two Dark Knight films to make room for the densely packed parallel stories. There is so much going on here, to play with time would be to confuse matters. And there is much reference to the previous two films. The Dark Knight Rises brings together all the story strands and forms a cohesive trilogy. The Dark Knight felt like a very different film to Batman Begins, but here in The Dark Knight Rises, Nolan pulls aspects from Batman Begins – Ra’s Al Ghul, Scarecrow – and The Dark Knight – the city’s state and Batman’s departure are direct consequences of the actions within that sequel – and in so doing encircles the films to create a true trilogy. Not three separate “adventures of Batman”, but a single, immense story, which on repeat viewings is going to be incredibly satisfying.

About the ending. I, it is fairly well-known around those who know me, do not see twists. I did not see that Bane is Ra’s Al Ghul’s son (he isn’t, but it was initially presented as such). I did not see that the mercenary is Ra’s Al Ghul. I did not see that Miranda Tate (Marion Cotillard, dazzling as ever) was Talia Al Ghul. Her betrayal – so distasteful after Bruce had bedded her – came out of left-field. (I think I get more out of films for not seeing twists. I see the film as the filmmakers intended.) That she chose to stab him brought another line from The Dark Knight added relevance. In creating the new suit that would allow him greater flexibility – including being able to turn his neck, finally – Lucius Fox (Morgan Freeman, lending every film auto-gravitas) mentioned in passing that it wouldn’t protect him from a knife. The inference was the Joker, who had a preference for knives, but that was a red herring. Here is the glorious pay-off to that line, four of our years later, and about four hours in film time later. This is the sort of care and attention that creates a trilogy that works. One in which preceding films work after seeing subsequent ones. Consistency is king.
Some days, you just can’t get rid of a bomb.
The debate over whether Batman was in the Bat or not when the bomb exploded should not need to happen. There are clues, lines about the autopilot which make it clear: he lied to fake his death, to create a martyr of Batman, to return a symbol of hope to Gotham. Batman had returned and proved himself worthy, to be the hope that Gotham needs. His death gives Batman immortality in the hearts and minds of the people of Gotham. Alfred’s story about his café in Italy means that Bruce knows where to find him, what to do. It is not the hopeful self-delusion of an old man: else Alfred would have imagined him there all those years that Bruce was away, training with Ra’s Al Ghul. Alfred never falsely imagined Bruce was there the first time – seeing it was someone else was key – so the second time, when it is Bruce, it really is him. It gives Bruce the happy ending, the life that he so sorely deserved. Gotham has the legend of Batman for idealism. And it has the actuality of a potential replacement in Blake. Whether he takes over as a new Batman, or as Robin, or as Nightwing, is not important. It is not for this film, or this series. It is the hope that he represents that allows Bruce to move away from Gotham, to create the life he wants.

As a trilogy, The Dark Knight Trilogy works so perfectly. There is a clear structure to each film, as he bests each villain during the course of that film. But there is also an overarching structure to the whole trilogy: Batman begins, Batman triumphs and falls, Batman returns and rises. It provides a realistic setting for a fantastical story. Nolan has successfully placed a superhero film within the structure of a world we can recognise. Political or sociological considerations are secondary: Nolan has been on record saying there is no intended political subtext. But anyone reading one into the films is welcome to, I’d imagine. Spider-Man and Superman live in worlds very like our own, but clearly not. If a radioactive – or genetically-enhanced – spider bites you, you get ill. Aliens do not, so far as we know absolutely, exist. (Belief is another thing.) But everything within Nolan’s universe can happen. It can be real. Unbelievable and impossible are two very different things, and Nolan explores the gulf between the two. There is a heightened reality, but it is nevertheless a reality. While there is little to touch the Three Colours Trilogy, since many other fine trilogies are no longer such – Indiana Jones, Die Hard, etc – it is not beyond the realms of possibilities to claim now that this is one of the finest trilogies to grace the big screen. (I speak of “true trilogies”, not the looser “three films by the same director on a loose theme” that seems to count sometimes.)

The films are not flawless. But it seems nitpicky and negative to focus on those when I did not feel that any of those flaws upset the overall tone of each scene in which they occurred. There will be those that go the easy route of accusing me of being a “Nolan fanboy”, which seems needlessly reductive. I am a fan of Nolan’s films because they are, almost in their entirety, a substantial body of work. I am a fan of high quality films, and these represent three of those, which together form a near peerless trilogy.
A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification. He can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can’t stop you, then you become something else entirely.




Superb review. Really enjoyed reading it. Totally agree with you as well on the whole "Did Alfred really see Bruce?" farce.

_____________________________

Confusion is a way of life, not a state of mind

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 213
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 24/7/2012 8:43:13 PM   
Mr Terrific


Posts: 1639
Joined: 15/7/2006
quote:

This isn't quite Girvan's 3,000 words, but it's close.

I've also written a bit about the other two Batman films in the Dark Knight Trilogy, and the link for all can be found in my signature.


The difficult third act. Always so hard to get right. The Dark Knight ends on similar tone and feeling to that other great second act, The Empire Strikes Back. Characters in peril, split up, a future uncertain. The Dark Knight Rises is the perfect conclusion to a nigh-on perfect trilogy.

Eight years have passed since the end of The Dark Knight. In the wake of Dent’s death, the Dent Act has passed, and it has effectively cleared up crime in the city. Batman is not only not welcome, he’s not needed. Bruce Wayne is pining for his lost love, Rachel, unaware of her changing affections before her death, andhas become a Howard Hughes-like recluse. Into this Gotham of idealism comes chaos once more. Bane, a masked mystery, intent on blowing up the city. Selina Kyle, a petty thief with a big reach. And a shadowy past catching up with Batman, fast.

How does one replace a villain as iconic and memorable as the Joker? Well, one doesn’t. The Joker was Batman’s equal intellectually. Always ahead of Batman, always one step beyond his reach until Batman changes the rules of the game. Bane is Batman’s equal physically. Arguably his superior. After eight years Bruce Wayne is almost a cripple. His leg bones have little cartilage left, and he needs a cane. After Selina Kyle steals Wayne’s prints to sell on to one his board-members who has a questionable agreement with Bane, Bruce Wayne realises that things are changing. Commissioner Gordon is conflicted: his actions saved the city, but they destroyed his family. He had to praise and idolise the monster that would have killed his wife and son. They left. A broken man, he needs to unburden himself, but not at the cost of betraying the city he has helped to restore. That city has changed. In Batman Begins it is unrecognisable as a real city; in The Dark Knight it resembles Chicago. Here it is more akin to New York. Chicago has history with crime – gangsters and so forth, more so in the popular consciousness than New York. That changing vision of Gotham reflects the changing atmosphere within the city.

The storyline of The Dark Knight Rises is deceptively simple. Villain appears, threatens to destroy city, appears to have Batman beaten, who then returns stronger than ever to save the day. It’s clichéd, but Nolan’s skill is in presenting it – as he ever has – in a manner that seems fresh, new, and relevant. Bane is arguably his most fantastical character. Tom Hardy, behind a mask for all but a fleeting glimpse, does wonderful things with the character. Many will comment on the voice. It is unusual. It’s two parts Sean Connery, one part Daniel Plainview, and yet neither of those. People will either hate it, or love it. Or both over the course of the film. It took me some time to get used to it, but as I grew accustomed to the unusual modulations Hardy gives the voice, it became so utterly perfect. It’s a mix of hilarious and chilling, and that combination makes it even more chilling again. There’s a nonchalance to the way he says the most horrifying things. The look and sound of Bane is so absolutely bonkers that it just works. The mask, and its use, is what is fantastical. There are almost certainly more ordinary ways to maintain a pain-free existence, but excusing the mask comes for the reasons many assume it only has: menace and fear. And that is all the reason one needs. He builds up a mystery and myth about him which is more troubling and unusual than the Joker’s even. As Selina Kyle, Anne Hathaway produces a performance a world away from Michelle Pfeiffer’s. As a 12 yr old watching Batman Returns, Michelle Pfeiffer made an indelible impression, but as has previously been mentioned, Nolan’s Batfilms are a world away from Burton’s, so it is entirely possible for both Catwomen to live side by side. Here, Kyle is literally a cat-burglar, unassuming, lithe, seductive, and dangerous. Hathaway gets the balance right, and the costume designer gets the costume right. How does one dress as a cat without it looking silly? Tight black clothing makes sense for a thief. A mask makes sense for a thief. But the ears? Enhanced vision goggles flip up and, hey presto, they look like ears. It really is quite perfect. Kyle’s journey is one of villain in an unintentional way, to unlikely saviour. The duality of her relationship with Batman is well-played here. Not quite as on-the-nose as the “mistletoe can be deadly if you eat it…” exchange, but subtly. Batman recognises elements of himself in her. Most notably the moment that she disappears as his back is turned – although he really didn’t need to maintain his Batvoice for that quip: no-one was around to hear him speak.

A note about the Batvoice, as I’ve not mentioned it thus far. Personally, it makes perfect sense. Why bother to mask your appearance if you do not mask your voice? At times it can sound silly, granted, but Bale pitches it well here.

Nolan stated somewhere, at some point, that he didn’t want to include Robin. And yet… Joseph Gordon-Levitt plays Officer Blake, an orphan who had a run in with Bruce Wayne in his youth, after Wayne had set up a trust for orphaned children in Gotham. A canny young man, he uses his own emotional experience to work out that the state of mind being orphaned at a young age does to a person is conducive to the drive that could make a man become Batman, because he recognised it in himself. Through the film, Batman/Wayne uses Blake to assist him, tutor him, talks to him about the need for a mask, because it is symbolic, and it protects those closest to you. He is, quite clearly, mentoring Blake for…something. The unnecessary revelation of Blake’s real name is disappointing, but is not a massive issue. By the end Blake has discovered the Batcave and there is a clear sense of a continuation. Not one that needs to be filmed, but a sense that Gotham will be in safe hands, should any further villains come its way in the future.

But I am getting ahead of myself. Batman must first face Bane. Unprepared, mentally and physically, Bane bests him and, a rarity in such things, gives a valid and believable reason for not killing him. Instead, he leaves him in a prison in Asia, inescapable, with a near-broken back, and a near-broken spirit. Meanwhile Bane lays waste to much of Gotham and takes control of a neutron reactor core which, with the help of Useful But Expendable Scientist, he turns into a bomb. A bomb which, triggered or not, will detonate in five months. Five months for Gotham to decay, for Batman to lose all hope, and for the Scarecrow (a returning Cillian Murphy) to hold court for all crimes with the Hobson’s Choice of “exile, or death…by exile”. This middle act sees the police force marooned largely in the sewers, fed through grates by the few remaining above, the populace of Gotham cowering in their houses, and Batman discovering about Bane while festering in the pit prison.

The latter two Batman films are, for Nolan, narratively straight. While Batman Begins flicks across times, he straightens out the narrative in the two Dark Knight films to make room for the densely packed parallel stories. There is so much going on here, to play with time would be to confuse matters. And there is much reference to the previous two films. The Dark Knight Rises brings together all the story strands and forms a cohesive trilogy. The Dark Knight felt like a very different film to Batman Begins, but here in The Dark Knight Rises, Nolan pulls aspects from Batman Begins – Ra’s Al Ghul, Scarecrow – and The Dark Knight – the city’s state and Batman’s departure are direct consequences of the actions within that sequel – and in so doing encircles the films to create a true trilogy. Not three separate “adventures of Batman”, but a single, immense story, which on repeat viewings is going to be incredibly satisfying.

About the ending. I, it is fairly well-known around those who know me, do not see twists. I did not see that Bane is Ra’s Al Ghul’s son (he isn’t, but it was initially presented as such). I did not see that the mercenary is Ra’s Al Ghul. I did not see that Miranda Tate (Marion Cotillard, dazzling as ever) was Talia Al Ghul. Her betrayal – so distasteful after Bruce had bedded her – came out of left-field. (I think I get more out of films for not seeing twists. I see the film as the filmmakers intended.) That she chose to stab him brought another line from The Dark Knight added relevance. In creating the new suit that would allow him greater flexibility – including being able to turn his neck, finally – Lucius Fox (Morgan Freeman, lending every film auto-gravitas) mentioned in passing that it wouldn’t protect him from a knife. The inference was the Joker, who had a preference for knives, but that was a red herring. Here is the glorious pay-off to that line, four of our years later, and about four hours in film time later. This is the sort of care and attention that creates a trilogy that works. One in which preceding films work after seeing subsequent ones. Consistency is king.
Some days, you just can’t get rid of a bomb.
The debate over whether Batman was in the Bat or not when the bomb exploded should not need to happen. There are clues, lines about the autopilot which make it clear: he lied to fake his death, to create a martyr of Batman, to return a symbol of hope to Gotham. Batman had returned and proved himself worthy, to be the hope that Gotham needs. His death gives Batman immortality in the hearts and minds of the people of Gotham. Alfred’s story about his café in Italy means that Bruce knows where to find him, what to do. It is not the hopeful self-delusion of an old man: else Alfred would have imagined him there all those years that Bruce was away, training with Ra’s Al Ghul. Alfred never falsely imagined Bruce was there the first time – seeing it was someone else was key – so the second time, when it is Bruce, it really is him. It gives Bruce the happy ending, the life that he so sorely deserved. Gotham has the legend of Batman for idealism. And it has the actuality of a potential replacement in Blake. Whether he takes over as a new Batman, or as Robin, or as Nightwing, is not important. It is not for this film, or this series. It is the hope that he represents that allows Bruce to move away from Gotham, to create the life he wants.

As a trilogy, The Dark Knight Trilogy works so perfectly. There is a clear structure to each film, as he bests each villain during the course of that film. But there is also an overarching structure to the whole trilogy: Batman begins, Batman triumphs and falls, Batman returns and rises. It provides a realistic setting for a fantastical story. Nolan has successfully placed a superhero film within the structure of a world we can recognise. Political or sociological considerations are secondary: Nolan has been on record saying there is no intended political subtext. But anyone reading one into the films is welcome to, I’d imagine. Spider-Man and Superman live in worlds very like our own, but clearly not. If a radioactive – or genetically-enhanced – spider bites you, you get ill. Aliens do not, so far as we know absolutely, exist. (Belief is another thing.) But everything within Nolan’s universe can happen. It can be real. Unbelievable and impossible are two very different things, and Nolan explores the gulf between the two. There is a heightened reality, but it is nevertheless a reality. While there is little to touch the Three Colours Trilogy, since many other fine trilogies are no longer such – Indiana Jones, Die Hard, etc – it is not beyond the realms of possibilities to claim now that this is one of the finest trilogies to grace the big screen. (I speak of “true trilogies”, not the looser “three films by the same director on a loose theme” that seems to count sometimes.)

The films are not flawless. But it seems nitpicky and negative to focus on those when I did not feel that any of those flaws upset the overall tone of each scene in which they occurred. There will be those that go the easy route of accusing me of being a “Nolan fanboy”, which seems needlessly reductive. I am a fan of Nolan’s films because they are, almost in their entirety, a substantial body of work. I am a fan of high quality films, and these represent three of those, which together form a near peerless trilogy.
A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification. He can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can’t stop you, then you become something else entirely.


Excellent review, you make some good points. I have only seen it once but seem to understand where Nolan is coming from. There lots of nods to the comics, more so than in the previous two films. While not true to the Batman of the comics, Nolan's Batman is always true the character in the previous two films.

The flaws and nitpicks that are present do not stop me from enjoying the movie, heck there are twenty times more nitpicks to be had in The Avengers, but they are barely mentioned..

Good stuff...I reckon when all the excitement dies down, there will be a more sombre look at the film by more people!

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 12:23:20 AM   
Hood_Man


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Just thought I'd post again in this thread but... I fucking love Bain's voice

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Post #: 215
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:12:22 AM   
Spaldron


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Christian Bale visits victims in hospital, proves that he is awesome.

http://batman-news.com/2012/07/24/christian-bale-visits-victims-of-aurora-colorado-theater-shooting/

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Post #: 216
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:32:22 AM   
Whistler


Posts: 3156
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

Has anyone mentioned how bloody good Hathaway looked on the Batpod yet? Her derriere was almost as distracting as Johansson's in The Avengers.


shame it was the stuntwoman's


I mean the bit when she blew a hole in the car blockade and the bike was still, that was surely her wasn't it?? Still, if it was the stuntwoman, she be fine

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Post #: 217
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 9:04:07 AM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 8004
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

Superb review. Really enjoyed reading it. Totally agree with you as well on the whole "Did Alfred really see Bruce?" farce.


Yeah great review homer. I agree for the most part. I do have a few issues with the film for sure but I still thought it was a thoroughly enjoyable 4 star film..

As for the above comment, it actually boggles my mind that people think there's any ambiguity to the ending. Bruce is alive and Alfred sees him, that happens on screen and, as you say, there's no reason whatsoever to doubt what we see. This line of thought makes as little sense to me as Expendables vs Scott Pilgrim.

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Post #: 218
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 9:21:10 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54673
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I think it only started because people forget the scenes that went before it - the repeated thing over and over in the review thread was only the mention of Alfred and an 'oh' when reminded of things like the autopilot stuff, the scene with Fox, the scene with Gordon. WHich is fair enough -it's an overlong film, the mind was shutting down a bit - you're not going to remember everything 

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Post #: 219
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 11:39:59 AM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 802
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

Has anyone mentioned how bloody good Hathaway looked on the Batpod yet? Her derriere was almost as distracting as Johansson's in The Avengers.


shame it was the stuntwoman's


I mean the bit when she blew a hole in the car blockade and the bike was still, that was surely her wasn't it?? Still, if it was the stuntwoman, she be fine


Indeed... and yes they both looked great in skin tight rubber. In fact my girlfriend was so impressed with the suit the she wants one, I am of course keeping an eye out for the inevitable replicas which will start becoming available around Halloween

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Post #: 220
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 11:51:56 AM   
KnightofZyryab


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Just received the soundtrack in the post! I know what I'm listening to for the next 2 weeks to a month.

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Post #: 221
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 12:52:52 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
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From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
Pretty sure we're WAY beyond worrying about spoilers in this thread now, but for the craic - SPOILERS...


My main problem with Bruce surviving is that Alfred seeing him at the cafe relies on an enormous coincedence. Now, one could argue that Bruce employed all of his know-how and tech toys to find out when Alfred would be there, but we already know literally everything Bruce had left following the collapse of Wayne Industries (aside from his mother's pearls) had been sorted in his will. This problem is made even more problematic when you consider it's a Nolan brother film - pretty much any other director could have gotten away with a contrivance like that and it wouldn't have seemed too bad or so desperate. But this is the Nolans. Bearing their control and smarts in mind, having Bruce survive makes it too messy, too clumsy and too fluffy. If, on the other hand, we assume that Bruce DID die and the cafe scene is Alfred's fantasy realised, albeit in his own mind (and, to respond to the "why didn't he do it before then?" argument, simples - Bruce is dead and is at peace. Alfred knows that, so his subconscious let's go of the pain and guilt he'd been suffering from whilst watching Bruce get ever closer to death), then the cheesy contrivances (the autopilot, being too close to the explosion to have survived, living happily ever after etc) all of a sudden become clever little red herrings in their own right to provoke just this type of discussion - MUCH tidier for a Nolan film.

Just my opinion, of course. What I think SHOULD have happened with the cafe scene was that we just see Alfred look over, but then we immediately cut to Blake in the batcave, so we never see what Alfred is seeing, if anything. Putting that into more obvious terms, that would then be this trilogy's Inception-like spinning top climax. (Yeah, basically I'm saying I'm a billion times better than directing and writing than Chris and Joanthan Nolan, respectively ).

Also, am I the only person on the planet that thinks Marion Cotillard is not a very good actress???


All that aside, I still enjoyed it and I have forgiven most of its (many) shortcomings.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:04:44 PM   
elab49


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I agree with the idea the shot should have ended on Alfred, but I'm with the discussion up thread - there will have been so much offthebooks supporting the Batman project, the will wasn't relevant to the assets that actually would have existed. Special projects was off the books, so much else must have been as well.

Also, his bidey-in has a few talents in the wealth acquiring business.


< Message edited by elab49 -- 25/7/2012 1:05:17 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 223
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:11:33 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 8004
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From: Sometime in the future.
Yeah I think the shot should have cut away before we saw Bruce as well because the whole escaping from the blast radius thing is what annoys me most about the film. If there was a chance that Bruce's fate was ambiguous I could settle on him being dead and my main problem with the film would be instantly eliminated. As it stands though, IMO, there's nothing to support the idea that Bruce didn't survive and that Alfred was imagining it.

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Post #: 224
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:29:21 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle
As it stands though, IMO, there's nothing to support the idea that Bruce didn't survive and that Alfred was imagining it.


Other than the result of that being that the Nolans have dropped a MASSIVE, ill thought out and uncharacteristic clanger...

Maybe I'm placing too much faith in them?

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:37:07 PM   
Harry Tuttle


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From: Sometime in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle
As it stands though, IMO, there's nothing to support the idea that Bruce didn't survive and that Alfred was imagining it.


Other than the result of that being that the Nolans have dropped a MASSIVE, ill thought out and uncharacteristic clanger...


Unfortunately, yes. As far as I'm concerned finding out that Bruce did fix the autopilot and then Alfred seeing him, as well as us seeing him alive on screen leaves no room for interpretation. That fucks up the bomb disposal scene completely in my eyes because the Nolan's making it look like he died have made him surviving completely implausible.

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Post #: 226
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:47:04 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle
Unfortunately, yes.


That is...unfortunate.


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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:50:40 PM   
Harry Tuttle


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Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.


It's also just my opinion*. People can interpret it any way they want, who the hell am I to tell them they're wrong? I just can't see it myself which is why I totally agree that they should never have shown Bruce. It totally undermined any ambiguity for me.









*Of course, that makes it unquestionably correct

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:52:07 PM   
Rob


Posts: 2473
Joined: 30/9/2005
I thought that the bomb was supposed to have gone off underwater thereby considerably reducing the amount of radiation in the atmosphere. Batman bails (Bales) out before this and somehow swims to safety.

Easy.

Additionally the radiation in the water creates a mutation resulting in the birth of Killer Croc giving Robin / Blake / Nightwing / Batman 2 something to fight in the sequel!

Genius.

So not only does it all make sense it's also foreshadowing the next instalment and therefore the Nolans' credibility remains in tact...or perhaps not!

< Message edited by Rob -- 25/7/2012 3:18:24 PM >


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Post #: 229
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 1:52:58 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle
*Of course, that makes it unquestionably correct


But also so very very incorrect. But in a different way.

If you get what I mean.


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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 3:12:34 PM   
demoncleaner


Posts: 2451
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle
As it stands though, IMO, there's nothing to support the idea that Bruce didn't survive and that Alfred was imagining it.


Other than the result of that being that the Nolans have dropped a MASSIVE, ill thought out and uncharacteristic clanger...


Unfortunately, yes. As far as I'm concerned finding out that Bruce did fix the autopilot and then Alfred seeing him, as well as us seeing him alive on screen leaves no room for interpretation. That fucks up the bomb disposal scene completely in my eyes because the Nolan's making it look like he died have made him surviving completely implausible.



I think the best ending would have been for Alfred to look across the café and see Bruce sitting with the guy with the sweater around his shoulders.  That would have been an eye-opener and no mistake.

I agree there’s nothing to support the in-head theory although that was my initial assumption.  It was because of the shot with him in the Bat and the next cut a micro-second later of the bomb going off.  If it was a court of law you’d have to go by the ocular evidence, and whilst processing the emotional information of that I lost the subsequent circumstantial evidence of auto-pilot/pearls/bat signal/cave co-ordinates.  Considering the last shot of Inception it was also tempting to think that this was cut from the same cloth, half-way necessary in terms of the pressure on Nolan to end the trilogy whilst courting the demand for more. The fact he's still alive also makes the statue and the Dickens tribute slightly fraudulent for the audience.    I went to work straight from the showing at 9 in the morning and bumped into a colleague who was there also.  He asked what I made of the ending I said I didn’t know, that I’d wait for someone on the internet to tell me.  Sure enough, ten minutes later…

I still love the film by the way.  Plot holes?  Even Raymond Chandler never knew who shot the chaffeur.

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Post #: 231
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 3:50:05 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3118
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One thing that makes me laugh is hwo some people keep saying how did Bruce get back to america and get inside Gotham when he had no money or gadgets? He's Batman. End of. We didn't need to see it. If we did, people would moan that a montage showing him travelling back would have been unnecessary. O another one is if Bruce is alive (He is!!!) how would he survive now that he has no money left? Again, He's batman. He travelled the world for eight years without anything more than the clothes on his back. And that was before (during) he gained all his skills. Plus, like the bunker left over from TDK, it's safe to assume he has various back-ups for supplies, funds off the books that no one else is aware of. Plus he's now with Selina who probably has a little nest egg tucked away from her days of a master thief.

As I said before, I originally wished that the last shot had just been Alfred smiling but now I love that Bruce gets his happy ending, even more so that he gets it with Selina. However one thing bugs me, a little bit, there's mention of the pearls missing when they're going through the will and earlier Bruce admits they look good on Selina, so I expected her to be wearing them in the final scene. But she isn't.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 3:54:22 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville
so I expected her to be wearing them in the final scene. But she isn't.


Alfred doesn't know (or we're not told that he knows) that Bruce let her keep them. Ergo they are missing from the scene because he does not know about them. Ergo the scene is Alfred's fantasy. Ergo Bruce is dead.

On the other hand, there's no law which says a woman must wear a set of pearls at all times...

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 3:57:32 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54673
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Especially not pearls that have tracking devices implanted in them?


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 3:58:59 PM   
Vadersville


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quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville
so I expected her to be wearing them in the final scene. But she isn't.


Alfred doesn't know (or we're not told that he knows) that Bruce let her keep them. Ergo they are missing from the scene because he does not know about them. Ergo the scene is Alfred's fantasy. Ergo Bruce is dead.




You will never learn...

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Post #: 235
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 4:01:25 PM   
Vadersville


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob

I thought that the bomb was supposed to have gone off underwater thereby considerably reducing the amount of radiation in the atmosphere. Batman bails (Bales) out before this and somehow swims to safety.

Easy.

Additionally the radiation in the water creates a mutation resulting in the birth of Killer Croc giving Robin / Blake / Nightwing / Batman 2 something to fight in the sequel!

Genius.

So not only does it all make sense it's also foreshadowing the next instalment and therefore the Nolans' credibility remains in tact...or perhaps not!



It's funny because Killer Croc appears briefly in Gotham knight which is supposed to be set between BB and TDK, although I don't think Nolan ever sanctioned it. But I remember one of the cops says to someone about the sewers "See any big crocs down there?" during DKR which made me smile.

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Post #: 236
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 4:44:10 PM   
st3veebee


Posts: 2353
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About the whole "is he or isn't he dead" arguement: Kermode said at the end of his review that you get out of it what you take into it, and is in favour of the ambiguity aspect.

Honestly I thought it was very subjective, until I learned of Bruce fixing the autopilot remarks, which I somehow completely missed. When we see him flying off we definitely don't see any small dot leaping out of the Bat, so either he got out at the very last minute and somehow survived a nuke at close range or he got out well before it left Gotham. I'm guessing the latter...but would nobody have seen Bats jumping out or getting back to the cave?

This isn't like Vickers obviously being human...THIS IS REAL PEOPLE.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 4:55:58 PM   
kumar


Posts: 5231
Joined: 2/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

Just thought I'd post again in this thread but... I fucking love Bain's voice

"Let the games begin!"

"Or maybe he's wondering why you would shoot a man before throwing him out of an airplane?"

"It doesn't matter who we are."

"It would be extremely painful. For you."

quote:

dead" arguement: Kermode said at the end of his review that you get out of it what you take into it, and is in favour of the ambiguity aspect.

Honestly I thought it was very subjective, until I learned of Bruce fixing the autopilot remarks, which I somehow completely missed. When we see him flying off we definitely don't see any small dot leaping out of the Bat, so either he got out at the very last minute and somehow survived a nuke at close range or he got out well before it left Gotham. I'm guessing the latter...but would nobody have seen Bats jump


You forgot all of his dialogue in the first fight about the shadows. Was I the only one that saw ROTJ vibes there? Bane was class, really enjoyed everything, his hulk, power, voice beating the shit out of bats.

I saw this in IMAX last night and it was incredible, due a revisit in a couple of weeks. Overall I do think the story is a little convoluted and has more inconsistencies than the previous two together but I really enjoyed it. I hadnt cottoned on Bruce was alive at the end, infact, although I watched it all I missed around a 1/3 of wtf was actually going on.

Favorite moment apart from first fight was Bane vs pillar. Fucking badass!

The John Blake thing was a little cheesy I thought. No way will there be a sequel to this film- Blake would get his ass handed to him immediately.

I dont have any other opinions on it really. More Bane would have been nice. (I have a thing for extended final battles, there aren't many that deliver).

_____________________________

"Darth Silas - I love Craig as Bond too. Genius. "- Jackmansgirl 15/7/2008

Last films watched:

The Road - 4/5
Chronicle - 4/5
Twilight Breaking Dawn p1 - 1/5
Warrior - 5/5
Super 8 - 5/5
Paranormal Activity 3 - 3/5
MI 4 - 2/5

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 238
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 5:19:32 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3118
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: st3veebee

About the whole "is he or isn't he dead" arguement: Kermode said at the end of his review that you get out of it what you take into it, and is in favour of the ambiguity aspect.

Honestly I thought it was very subjective, until I learned of Bruce fixing the autopilot remarks, which I somehow completely missed. When we see him flying off we definitely don't see any small dot leaping out of the Bat, so either he got out at the very last minute and somehow survived a nuke at close range or he got out well before it left Gotham. I'm guessing the latter...but would nobody have seen Bats jumping out or getting back to the cave?

This isn't like Vickers obviously being human...THIS IS REAL PEOPLE.



It's real in the sense that yes, what Alfred sees is real and not him imagining it. Not only the Auto-pilot scene but if Bruce is dead who fixed the bat signal? It simply doesn't make sense that he would be dead. as I posted before, the whole character arc of Bruce is that at the start of the film he wants to die in a blaze of glory and by the end of it he wants to live: Alfred tells him he's scared he wants to fail. Bane tells him he welcomes death. The pain in the pit tells him he fails because he no longer fears death. He has to regain that fear, that will to live to succeed. To have him then die would be completley and utterly pointless and defeat the whole journey of his character through this film.

I bet you're also one of them lot who think Liam Neeson was playing the ghost of Ra's Al Ghul and not a hallucination...

_____________________________

Confusion is a way of life, not a state of mind

(in reply to st3veebee)
Post #: 239
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/7/2012 5:27:25 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 8004
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

I bet you're also one of them lot who think Liam Neeson was playing the ghost of Ra's Al Ghul and not a hallucination...


Wait, what??

Is this a real thing?

It's plausible I guess, Nolan's all about the supernatural and fantastical after all .

Totally agree with the rest of your post as well.

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

(in reply to Vadersville)
Post #: 240
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