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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 8:24:37 PM

Ghidorah

Posts: 2622
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

When the woman said to Blake you should use your legal name I was expecting her to say Richard Grayson. Robin was just a bit cringe-worthy. I actually thought having Bruce fund the orphanage that brought up Blake was a neat way to get round the whole Grayson being Bruce's ward which works well in the comics but might not translate in Nolan's canon. I've always though JGL would be perfect for Nightwing and the way he played Blake reminded me of the character. I have a sneaky feeling that originally his legal name was indeed originally Grayson but the studio went with Robin because they didn't think the average movie-goer would get the connection.

It was very cringe worthy. If JGL character was called Greyson then I would see no problem especially Nolan change the backstory about Bruce Wayne raised Greyson. It would make perfect sense if Dick Greyson created an alter ego called Robin and learnt some martial arts off Bruce Wayne. Instead we get a cop with a lack of fighting experience becoming the next Batman or Nightwing.

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Post #: 121

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 8:48:07 PM

moviebuff73

Posts: 118
Joined: 7/6/2012
From: diss

great movie, just not enough batman in it.

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Post #: 122

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 8:48:26 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18876
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

I like that Blake will now have an unlimited number of orphan boys who can be his side kick from now on. Each time one dies, just go next door and get another.

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Post #: 123

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 8:59:11 PM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11270
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I like that Blake will now have an unlimited number of orphan boys who can be his side kick from now on. Each time one dies, just go next door and get another.

Or get two, in case he loses one along the way.

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Post #: 124

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 9:00:23 PM

Vadersville

Posts: 2898
Joined: 30/9/2005

One thing that really bothered me when I was watching DRK, and this will most likely seem petty, was how obvious it was that Gotham was New York in this film. Nolan had previously said to him that Gotham was always closer to Chicago than New York and I agreed with him. But what I loved about Begins was how they used different locations and studios to create their own Gotham that was completley different from a single city. i remember on the BB DVd commentry them talking about how they created the aerial shots of Gotham using different shot of different cities blended together and it totally worked! But in TDK Gotham became just Chicago. At first this wasn't that big a problem as Chicago is rarely used in films anyway but when Transformers 3 came out it was so wierd seeing places I had associated with Gotham. Then with DKR its just New York. The aerial shots are blatantly New York. The bridges in particular stood out for me and took me out of it a bit. I kept looking at the aerial shots thinking, where the hell are the Narrows supposed to have been now?

< Message edited by Vadersville -- 22/7/2012 9:03:08 PM >

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Post #: 125

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 9:13:06 PM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11270
Joined: 30/9/2005

I've just had a thought, instead of Scarecrow acting as the judge they should have used Eddie Izzard. "Cake or Death??"

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Post #: 126

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 9:28:48 PM

Harry Tuttle

Posts: 7496
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.

Really enjoyed that. I need a rewatch though because I'm not quite sold on the bomb plot resolution and Bruce's escape. I need to see if there was anything I missed that might explain the hokeyness of him getting the bomb far enough away from the city in a bit over a minute and a half. I was alright with the reveal he was still alive, I thought Michael Caine played that well despite the inevitability and the Robin thing didn't really bother me. It should have been cringe inducing but it didn't bother me at all. Overall I thought it was a massively enjoyable film with some great performances. Hardy in particular impressed me with a very menacing physical performance. I have a huge man crush on Hardy though so that's no real surprise

.

Saw the Talia plot twist coming a mile off though. As soon as we found out the child that escaped was Al Ghul's offspring it was obvious to me that the child was a girl and the protector was Bane. It didn't take much joining of the dots to twig that Miranda Tate was Talia then.

Overall a very enjoyable film and a fitting resolution to a genuinely great trilogy of films. I'm not convinced after one viewing that the ending can stand up under scrutiny though.

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Post #: 127

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 9:34:17 PM

Bluedevils

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/1/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

One thing that really bothered me when I was watching DRK, and this will most likely seem petty, was how obvious it was that Gotham was New York in this film. Nolan had previously said to him that Gotham was always closer to Chicago than New York and I agreed with him. But what I loved about Begins was how they used different locations and studios to create their own Gotham that was completley different from a single city. i remember on the BB DVd commentry them talking about how they created the aerial shots of Gotham using different shot of different cities blended together and it totally worked! But in TDK Gotham became just Chicago. At first this wasn't that big a problem as Chicago is rarely used in films anyway but when Transformers 3 came out it was so wierd seeing places I had associated with Gotham. Then with DKR its just New York. The aerial shots are blatantly New York. The bridges in particular stood out for me and took me out of it a bit. I kept looking at the aerial shots thinking, where the hell are the Narrows supposed to have been now?

Totally agree with this. No effort to disguise NYC at all. No sign of the narrows, no monorail etc....

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Post #: 128

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 9:45:01 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1617
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From: The Internet

Is there any reason why Miranda didnt reveal herself to be Talia earlier than she did? It seems to me that when Bane has beaten and broken Batman that that would be the perfect time to show her true identity to Bruce.There is no reason to beleive that both she and Bane would expect Bruce to ever walk again let alone escape from the pit. So why didnt she give herself the satisfaction of letting Bruce know that she was really the one who defeated him?

I realise that maybe Nolan just wanted to save such a twist for the climax of the film but it seems to me that this plot development should have been used earlier?

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Post #: 129

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 11:01:30 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19962
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

Other than for monologuing-in-movies, why bother revealing who she is at all? Seems needlessly risky. She kinda had to reveal herself since Bane had just been blown away.

Re the plot twists, here are the twists I did get:

Bruce Wayne is Batman. (No, really, he totally is.)
Blake would become Robin/Nightwing/replacement Batman.

And here are the plot twists I did not get:

Ra's Al Ghul was the mercenary.
Bane was his son. (It was revealed as a twist, even if it wasn't true.)
Miranda Tate was a baddie.
Miranda Tate was Ra's Al Ghul's daughter.

I love that I don't see plot twists in films. It makes it much more satisfying when it happens. I was genuinely like SHIT when Tate stabbed Batman.

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Post #: 130

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/7/2012 11:20:15 PM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11270
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq
Bruce Wayne is Batman. (No, really, he totally is.)

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Post #: 131

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 12:01:29 AM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18876
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

Good point raised on twitter - why did Fox add a countdown timer on the fusion core?

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Post #: 132

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 12:50:45 AM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11270
Joined: 30/9/2005

If you have a spare 80 minutes, give this a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJs8vIOP1Ik&feature=g-all-u

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Post #: 133

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 2:16:31 AM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

RedLetterMedia take on TDKR here.

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Post #: 134

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 5:49:51 AM

Whistler

Posts: 2271
Joined: 22/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Good point raised on twitter - why did Fox add a countdown timer on the fusion core?

I assume in case it was ever taken out of the reactor. If he knew it would blow after a certain amount of time it makes sense to install some kind of indication as to when it would.

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Post #: 135

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 11:04:35 AM

Vadersville

Posts: 2898
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Good point raised on twitter - why did Fox add a countdown timer on the fusion core?

I assume in case it was ever taken out of the reactor. If he knew it would blow after a certain amount of time it makes sense to install some kind of indication as to when it would.

I assumed it was installed when the Professor converted the reactor into a bomb but as Whistler says, it makes sense that it would have a warning timer on there in casethe core ever had to be removed.

< Message edited by Vadersville -- 23/7/2012 11:10:08 AM >

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Post #: 136

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 11:09:37 AM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11270
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Good point raised on twitter - why did Fox add a countdown timer on the fusion core?

To cook giant, radioactive, microwave bacon.

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Post #: 137

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 11:42:38 AM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

Really interesting to see some of the reaction to the film over the weekend. I definately got the feeling during that first viewing last week that it would divide people and that some would have real issues with the sloppy villain plot and with those final few minutes. I'm surprised some seem to be hung up on smaller things though too, things that never really occured to me as being an issue, or rather, to me theyre the kind of issues all films of this type have and will never really be able to eliminate - I'm talking about Bruce's return to Gotham and the timer on the Clean Energy device. I mean, when we're complaining that movie bad guys have bombs with countdown timers on them, we know we've exhausted all other issues to moan about

The real flaws in Dark Knight Rises though are really all with Bane's plot and his ass backward approach to destroying Gotham really falls apart when you really pay attention. However, none of the plot holes really spoiled it for me, it still thundered along at a good pace and kept me thrilled and entertained from begining to end, even on that second viewing. I still hold it just above The Dark Knight in terms of my overall enjoyment but it's still below Begins, which remains one of my favourite movies of all time. Rises still comes across to me as five star movie making and five star entertainment and we really don't get many comic book movies of this quality, so I can look past the issues with muddled villain plots and rushed character revelations. I also really love that ending, I love the idea of Blake starting a path to become Batman, there were several character moments with him that really worked for me - his anger as an orphan, his quest for justice, the detective skills (kinda), the fact that he hated taking a life - and really helped me buy the fact that this was a guy that could take over as Batman.

I know some people dont like the idea that this take on Batman included a lot of Bruce's desire to stop, but I really like that idea. Bruce wants to save Gotham, to restore it to its former glory, but it isnt realistic that he would be able to do that by being out every night as Batman fighting petty criminals. Just the idea and symbol of Batman was deterring them in The Dark Knight meaning Batman can be more focussed on taking down crime organisations that fed the rot of the city. Using the symbol of Batman to protect the truth about Dent and then to use Dent's name to really stamp out organised crime in the years between Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises really worked for me. I liked the fact that although Bruce could stop being Batman he becomes a recluse as he has nothing in his life after Batman now that Rachel is dead. I really liked that and I dont have an issue with this being Batman/Bruce that wants to stop. It's not a new idea introduced in this final movie either, it's carried through all three films and it makes perfect sense within this story. So, when he takes out Bane/Talia and as he is saving the city from the nuclear blast there was a look on his face in The Bat that some people referred to him accepting his fate and death, but I saw it more as him making a decision to not die, to use the auto-pilot and to escape, cos he sees that he has the opportunity to escape and start afresh - which he does - and I loved it. It seems a bit forced that he does so with Selina as during the film they dont seem to really make that kind of connection, but I can live with that. I really dont see how people are debating the fate of Bruce though, it's clear as day and spelled out on screen that he survives and the finale in the cafe is not some hallucenation of Alfred's.

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Post #: 138

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 11:57:48 AM

Rob

Posts: 2407
Joined: 30/9/2005

I'd pretty much agree with all of that.

The second viewing for me really ironed out most of my issues. I think all three of the films get better on subsequent viewings for me and when you take into context the fact that it's Nolan's definitive and finite take on Bruce Wayne and Batman and not just another chapter in the ongoing story that it works even better.

My girlfriend pretty much detests all comic book movies and is exasperated by my unquenchable love of all things Batman and my passion for superhero films in general. However, she loved it. She was a sobbing mess by the end of it and that says a lot to me.

When I went in expecting a truly brilliant movie instead of the second coming everything was just so much better.

Also as for the Talia twist. I knew Miranda Tate was really Talia from the moment she was cast and yet I didn't expect it to play out the way it did. Up until the point she stabbed Batman I was convinced that the kid was Bane!

And yes Ra's is a figment of Bruce's imagination and not a ghost as some have speculated and Bruce clearly survives at the end!

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Post #: 139

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 12:27:36 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18876
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

What is with all the "second coming" comments? Apart from the fanatics, was anyone saying that this would be the best thing ever(tm)

Looking at the comments it seems like pretty much everyone recognises the film has some issues - the question is the degree to which they affected your enjoyment of the film.

A small example - on my second viewing I couldn't get over how clean the streets of Gotham were. After three months without garbage being collected you could have expected bin bags everywhere - but what bins we saw were pretty much empty. Now for other people that would be nitpicking - but Nolan is much like Ridley Scott in that he is known for constructing these worlds with a great deal of care. It felt like the small details were lost and all these little moments build into a bigger picture of a third act which didn't really sell what we were told was going to happen.

Again - how much this effects your enjoyment of a film is up to yourself. It is all about degrees.

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Post #: 140

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 12:38:27 PM

Titanm21

Posts: 1155
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb

Batman Begins 5/5
The Dark Knight 3.5/5
Dark Knight Rises 5/5

Quick Question at the end of the DKR Fox has a convo with his techs about the autopilot on the Batwing, now clealry its not the batwing with the bomb as its not dust. So its obv a second batwing... BUT I'm sure Fox says they is only one in the movie so is that a flash back scene?? And if not why didn't Bane use it like he did with the other tech.

That bit confuses me.

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Post #: 141

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 1:08:54 PM

great_badir

Posts: 4172
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle

Selina Kyle is underdeveloped, Bane is nowhere near brutal enough (althought it is a 12A I guess...), the epic-scale siege mentality thing rarely works for me in any form of entertainment, the whole underground prison with Tom Conti seems a bit flabby and misplaced, I don't buy into this fascination with Marion Cotillard, Matthew Modine looks REALLY old...

But I enjoyed it and found myself (unusually for me) forgiving its shortcomings, and think it's a fitting close to Nolan's Gotham, leaving a trilogy which is, probably, the definitive word on the matter. And the best bit of Rises is, obviously, William Devane as the president.

Maggie Gyllenhaal aside, The Dark Knight is still the best and most complex part of the trilogy for me (althouth I do need to re-watch Begins, as I haven't seen that since the flicks).

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Post #: 142

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 1:10:27 PM

elab49

Posts: 51551
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

Selina Kyle is underdeveloped, Bane is nowhere near brutal enough (althought it is a 12A I guess...), the epic-scale siege mentality thing rarely works for me in any form of entertainment, the whole underground prison with Tom Conti seems a bit flabby and misplaced, I don't buy into this fascination with Marion Cotillard, Matthew Modine looks REALLY old...

But I enjoyed it and found myself (unusually for me) forgiving its shortcomings, and think it's a fitting close to Nolan's Gotham, leaving a trilogy which is, probably, the definitive word on the matter. And the best bit of Rises is, obviously, William Devane as the president.

Maggie Gyllenhaal aside, The Dark Knight is still the best and most complex part of the trilogy for me (althouth I do need to re-watch Begins, as I haven't seen that since the flicks).

That was bafflingly random, wasn't it. I think they were also slightly stumped because it would have looked a bit odd to pretend Lucius was the President's long lost twin brother.

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Post #: 143

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 1:19:38 PM

great_badir

Posts: 4172
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From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle

I've come to expect random and very obscure cameos in this trilogy - Shane Rimmer in Begins, Anthony Michael Hall in Dark Knight (Eric Roberts doesn't really count as it's almost a full character), and Devane in Rises of course.

I like that Nolan doesn't make a big cameo thing out of them either - they just pop up quietly without fanfare and disappear again without further comment.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 1:20:36 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18876
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

Michael Jai White as well.

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Post #: 145

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 1:25:21 PM

elab49

Posts: 51551
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I'd forgotten about Hall till I rewatched, and then I realised he was only there as a marker to tell us who the hostages were.

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Post #: 146

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 1:38:31 PM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

Quinn from Dexter in Rises too... that was a erally odd little cameo.

Picking up a point made earlier, the occupation of Gotham. That was really underplayed and needed more time and more focus on how the city would fall apart. During the run up to release in the Future Film thread there was a lot of discussion about this point and in a post I made I speculated on it and how I thought things would go down in the movie (it was actually pretty bloody accurate!), I thought the fact that Bane would essentially hold Gotham under martial law using the bomb as a means of supressing the people would be a huge focus for the second act and that as Gotham fell figuratively we'd see it literally fall too, in line with that great teaser poster. I was dissapointed we never really got that, yea a lot of detonations went off but it was mostly shown via sweeping aerial shots rather than at ground level.... where it wouldve been far scarier and more tense. Showing that up close and in detail wouldve really made Bane's threats seem all the more real. Once that occupation begain and Gotham begins to live under Bane's rule, we needed more time to see how the city reacted, to see society fall down. I wouldve liked more of that, than of rather muddled first act, which seems to get caught up with the Dagget/Selina story, which didnt work. I think stripping that out and getting Batman vs Bane out the way earlier and then get Bane ruling Gotham for the whole of the second act would've worked far better in my opinion. There was a real opportunity to do somethiing different with the usual comic book villain there and it was kinda fumbled by having Bane's plan essentially boil down to - we're going to set off a nuke in Gotham. However, it's not a deal breaker for me and I cant judge the film for not having something in it, I can only erally critique what is put on screen in front of me, and in that respect Nolan's last Batman film wins me over hands down. What is there is really really good. It's great, an excellent movie that has a flawed plot. It's a shame certain things we wanted to see never really came to the screen.

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Post #: 147

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 3:06:20 PM

Rob

Posts: 2407
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

What is with all the "second coming" comments? Apart from the fanatics, was anyone saying that this would be the best thing ever(tm)

Looking at the comments it seems like pretty much everyone recognises the film has some issues - the question is the degree to which they affected your�enjoyment of the film.

A small example - on my second viewing I couldn't get over how clean the streets of Gotham were. After three months without garbage being collected you could have expected bin bags everywhere - but what bins we saw were pretty much empty. Now for other people that would be nitpicking - but Nolan is much like Ridley Scott in that he is known for constructing these worlds with a great deal of care. It felt like the small details were lost and all these little moments build into a bigger picture of a third act which didn't really sell what we were told was going to happen.

Again - how much this effects your enjoyment of a film is up to yourself. It is all about degrees.

I meant me, no one else, just me! I was horribly guilty of failing to manage my own expectations and it really impacted how I felt about the film the first time. When I saw it again I was able to appreciate it better as a really great, albeit flawed, film.

The film for me ranks slightly above Begins and slightly below The Dark Knight.

< Message edited by Rob -- 23/7/2012 3:12:52 PM >

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Post #: 148

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 3:29:16 PM

filmfanatic123

Posts: 144
Joined: 22/9/2009
From: Arse End of Nowhere.

I really enjoyed The Dark Knight Rises, but it could have been better in my eyes.

A lot of what I was going to say has already been said, but I felt that it could have done with another half hour to really add to its emotional tone.

The twist at the end felt a bit forced, and the fight scenes looked piss poor in my opinion. I got the feeling than Nolan was trying to channel some Bourne into the fights, but it came across as clunky and scripted to me.

Also, the ending is very, very clever. And it'll leave people wondering for years, especially if nobody touches the trilogy - which I really hope happens. This deserves to end with TDKR, it doesn't need a reboot or a sequel.

I also loved the dialogue, as I thought it was incredibly dense and really well acted. It's a good movie, but I don't think its a truly great one like The Dark Knight - 4/5.

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Post #: 149

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 23/7/2012 4:41:07 PM

The Hooded Man

Posts: 2714
Joined: 12/7/2006

Are people getting mixed up with Inception when they say that the scene at the end didn't happen? I don't understand.

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Post #: 150