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ORIGINAL: rich

It's a long podcast, are his questions anything new?

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ORIGINAL: jobloffski

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ORIGINAL: rich

It's a long podcast, are his questions anything new?

Same old same old really. Why didn't Talia get Batman out of the way so she could destroy Gotham any time she felt like. Why the elaborate scheme.No reference to the film informing viewers that the slow wait for revenge (the slow knife thing, itself referencing the reason the Joker used knives, to savour the little moments, other methods are too quick) and wanting bruce to be able to witness his failure and be too crippled to help out.

Essentially 'I didn't like the film so it makes no sense' rather than, as for people who like the film, just watching the specific, self contained story that is being told/paid off with a willingness to go with this is what it is, rather than 'it isn't this, it isn't that' wah!! WAH!!).

Such questions as why does talia think having sex with Bruce is part of her revenge. No reference to the oft repeated thing in thefilm about giving people hope in order to take i away to make the despair hit harder (specifically here to let Bruce believe he could have a chance of happiness after Rachel in order to take that hope away when she dies in the explosion making Bruce once again think someone he loves has died and he has failed again,because if the plan had worked he would never even have known that Miranda wasn't her real name).

Revenge is a dish best served cold and if the plan had worked and Talia and Bane both died in the explosion, Bruce would survive, as a cripple, having failed his father, his city, his friends, his new lover, everyone. And he could either live in that despair or end it (when Gotham is ashes you have my permission to die), because with the perpetrators dead, there is no chance of even uncovering justice or vengenance (and even that has echoes with the first film because he only ever became Batman because JoeChill was dead and he couldnt have vengeance, so Tali's plan was to leave Bruce as lost as he was before he met her father. Basically wanting to be ready to punk Bruce so hard he could only watch his life and dream destroyed before hisbvery eyes and doing it by getting ready to do it slowly so he didn't even see it coming (employing theatricality and deception) was OBVIOUSLY the reason for the plan being so elaborate and to criticise a superhero movie, or indeed any movie for such things as 'why doesn't he just shoot Bond in the head, why leave him with any chance to escape at all?' is a slight case of 'I'm getting older' or 'I'm getting too stupid to remember how watching a film works'.

Yet again, (slightly flattered by the fact the opinions re expressed by Kevin Smith et al), the joking about how shit TDKR is, is borne of not liking the film and looking for shit to throw at it for 'failing them' in some way, rather than looking at how this interpretation plays out and avoiding infantile 'but Batman wouldn't do this' shit. The fucker used to use a gun, latterly he has a no killing rule. Nolan's trilogy tells a self contained story that owes some things to Batman lore but also, like many other reinventions of the character, looks at things its own way. Like it or hate it, it works according to the themes Nolan and Goyer laid out.Questions of why Talia didn't buy a bomb and use that because it would have been quicker or cheaper than developing one (itself part of the revenge, helping Bruce create the means to destroy his own city of course) are spectacularly dumb, and certainly dumber than TDKR, an imperfect, but certainly not inadequately logical film.

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ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

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ORIGINAL: jobloffski

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

It's a long podcast, are his questions anything new?

Same old same old really. Why didn't Talia get Batman out of the way so she could destroy Gotham any time she felt like. Why the elaborate scheme.No reference to the film informing viewers that the slow wait for revenge (the slow knife thing, itself referencing the reason the Joker used knives, to savour the little moments, other methods are too quick) and wanting bruce to be able to witness his failure and be too crippled to help out.

Essentially 'I didn't like the film so it makes no sense' rather than, as for people who like the film, just watching the specific, self contained story that is being told/paid off with a willingness to go with this is what it is, rather than 'it isn't this, it isn't that' wah!! WAH!!).

Such questions as why does talia think having sex with Bruce is part of her revenge. No reference to the oft repeated thing in thefilm about giving people hope in order to take i away to make the despair hit harder (specifically here to let Bruce believe he could have a chance of happiness after Rachel in order to take that hope away when she dies in the explosion making Bruce once again think someone he loves has died and he has failed again,because if the plan had worked he would never even have known that Miranda wasn't her real name).

Revenge is a dish best served cold and if the plan had worked and Talia and Bane both died in the explosion, Bruce would survive, as a cripple, having failed his father, his city, his friends, his new lover, everyone. And he could either live in that despair or end it (when Gotham is ashes you have my permission to die), because with the perpetrators dead, there is no chance of even uncovering justice or vengenance (and even that has echoes with the first film because he only ever became Batman because JoeChill was dead and he couldnt have vengeance, so Tali's plan was to leave Bruce as lost as he was before he met her father. Basically wanting to be ready to punk Bruce so hard he could only watch his life and dream destroyed before hisbvery eyes and doing it by getting ready to do it slowly so he didn't even see it coming (employing theatricality and deception) was OBVIOUSLY the reason for the plan being so elaborate and to criticise a superhero movie, or indeed any movie for such things as 'why doesn't he just shoot Bond in the head, why leave him with any chance to escape at all?' is a slight case of 'I'm getting older' or 'I'm getting too stupid to remember how watching a film works'.

Yet again, (slightly flattered by the fact the opinions re expressed by Kevin Smith et al), the joking about how shit TDKR is, is borne of not liking the film and looking for shit to throw at it for 'failing them' in some way, rather than looking at how this interpretation plays out and avoiding infantile 'but Batman wouldn't do this' shit. The fucker used to use a gun, latterly he has a no killing rule. Nolan's trilogy tells a self contained story that owes some things to Batman lore but also, like many other reinventions of the character, looks at things its own way. Like it or hate it, it works according to the themes Nolan and Goyer laid out.Questions of why Talia didn't buy a bomb and use that because it would have been quicker or cheaper than developing one (itself part of the revenge, helping Bruce create the means to destroy his own city of course) are spectacularly dumb, and certainly dumber than TDKR, an imperfect, but certainly not inadequately logical film.

I applaud you, sir.

Personally, I'd be more inclined to listen to Kevin Smith's views on Batman's character if his own Batman stories weren't so bad...

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ORIGINAL: spark1

it is a real shame that ms hathaway is not getting more praise/awards for her work as selina kyle compared to 'le mis'.

what she did in DKR was way more difficult a job to pull off than crying/singing a lot.

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ORIGINAL: spark1

my only reservations are that alfred would never leave bruce and gotham in the lurch especially when it all goes bad with bane around.

also i would have had talia be more conflicted about killing bruce/batman, as she is in the comics, making her death much sadder.

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ORIGINAL: Sutty

Loved the Kevin Smith Podcast on Batman, both his reviews and the recognition of the movies flaws and plot holes. His ribbing of Blake revealing his knowing that Bruce Wayne is Batman by a "look" exchanged is hilarious! "I get two kinda looks..."

As much as I enjoyed the film, I think even the most ardent Nolan/Batman fans have to admit that there are some pretty glaring flaws, and some lazy writing. How did Bane and co smuggle in and hide the motorbikes in to the stock exchange?

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The "clean slate" device (which is described ad nausium) is an incredibly lazy mcguffin I found, and rather cheap.

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ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The clean slate is the plot. All our heroes want one. The subtext for Catwoman is she wanted a literal one, but came to realise she had to change as well.

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ORIGINAL: KnightofZyryab

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ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

The clean slate is the plot. All our heroes want one. The subtext for Catwoman is she wanted a literal one, but came to realise she had to change as well.

I don't see how that is the plot. Batman rising to defeat Bane is not really about Wayne wanting a clean slate and starting a new life, even though that's what he gets at the end of the film. Wayne's clean slate is Alfred's dream and more of an offshoot from saving the city.

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ORIGINAL: Sutty

Loved the Kevin Smith Podcast on Batman, both his reviews and the recognition of the movies flaws and plot holes. His ribbing of Blake revealing his knowing that Bruce Wayne is Batman by a "look" exchanged is hilarious! "I get two kinda looks..."

As much as I enjoyed the film, I think even the most ardent Nolan/Batman fans have to admit that there are some pretty glaring flaws, and some lazy writing. How did Bane and co smuggle in and hide the motorbikes in to the stock exchange? The "clean slate" device (which is described ad nausium) is an incredibly lazy mcguffin I found, and rather cheap.
And Banes speech to the masses at the football stadium, and the masses reaction to it, is very poor.

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ORIGINAL: joysingh

i like dark knight rises movie...i like this movie story...

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ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

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ORIGINAL: Sutty

Loved the Kevin Smith Podcast on Batman, both his reviews and the recognition of the movies flaws and plot holes. His ribbing of Blake revealing his knowing that Bruce Wayne is Batman by a "look" exchanged is hilarious! "I get two kinda looks..."

As much as I enjoyed the film, I think even the most ardent Nolan/Batman fans have to admit that there are some pretty glaring flaws, and some lazy writing. How did Bane and co smuggle in and hide the motorbikes in to the stock exchange? The "clean slate" device (which is described ad nausium) is an incredibly lazy mcguffin I found, and rather cheap.
And Banes speech to the masses at the football stadium, and the masses reaction to it, is very poor.

Strongly disagree.Im a huge Nolan fan and while i dont think hes perfect,i think he and his crew did a great job on TDKR and finishing the trilogy.As for the bikes, since we see Bane wearing one when he enters the stock exchange, i assumed that he and his gang arrived there on the bikes and once he had taken control of the building, simply had his men take them inside.He had this all planned and knew the cops would be showing up so obviously had his escape route ready to go.The '' clean slate '' isnt really a mcguffin since only Selina is interested in it and isnt realy an important part of the plot.

As for Banes speech to the masses.It served its purpose in scaring the people of the city so i dont see how it can be seen as poor but hey.

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ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Ra's al Ghul, Bane, Catwoman and Talia are all characters who definitely know his true identity in the comics.
Commissioner Gordon is strongly hinted to know his and his allies true identities throughout the comics, including Batman himself acknowledging that Gordon is far too good a detective to have not figured it out, and this gem from The Black Mirror to Dick Grayson who had been helping with a case in a forensics lab, "I never said thank you, son", "I'm just doing my...", "No. I mean thank you. For everything".
John Blake (whose reason for knowing who Batman is, I happen to agree just doesn't make sense) had this element of his story based upon Tim Drake, the third Robin. He figured out who Batman, Robin and Nightwing were, and realised that Robin must have died and tried to convince Nightwing to go back to being Robin, before taking the job himself.
And Rachel isn't in the comics at all, but there have been plenty of love interests who have found out his identity, too.

And they're not the only characters who have found out who he is in the comics. I guess what I'm saying is that you can't blame the Nolan's or Goyer for doing something in the movies that happens so often in the source material.

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ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

I still don't believe Bain is dead when Selina shoots him in the chest/stomach with a rocket. I keep expecting him to stand up, rip it out of his chest and crush it with his hand