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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 6/1/2013 3:03:13 PM

giggity

Posts: 240
Joined: 4/3/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

As for his criticisms about Rises, he's perfectly entitled to bring them up. Frankly, he's more qualified than us to talk about these things because he's a scriptwriter and a director.

....who directed Cop Out, Red State and Clerks 2. No way is he more qualified then me because doing nothing is better then doing those.

Red State is awesome!

If it was a directors debut film or follow-up film. But not for a director who's been working in the film industry for about 20 years.

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Post #: 721

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 6/1/2013 3:14:14 PM

Whistler

Posts: 2275
Joined: 22/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

As for his criticisms about Rises, he's perfectly entitled to bring them up. Frankly, he's more qualified than us to talk about these things because he's a scriptwriter and a director.

....who directed Cop Out, Red State and Clerks 2. No way is he more qualified then me because doing nothing is better then doing those.

Red State is awesome!

If it was a directors debut film or follow-up film. But not for a director who's been working in the film industry for about 20 years.

Remember it was completely self-funded though, and you can't deny it's a country mile better than Cop Out...

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Post #: 722

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 6/1/2013 5:30:29 PM

Deviation

Posts: 26908
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

The problems don't come from being self-funded, quite a few films were and the results were excellent, they're in other locations. I mean the acting by Parks and Goodman is excellent, but everything else is messy and the ending is woeful.

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ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
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Post #: 723

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 6/1/2013 6:47:57 PM

Vadersville

Posts: 2898
Joined: 30/9/2005

The 'not enough Batman' complaint always seems daft to me as Nolan has said since BB that for him his films are about Bruce Wayne (and the different parts of his character), and to be fair, as much as I love Tim Burton's Batman (and to a lesser extent, Batman Returns) those films are all about the villians. Likewise, Smith complains that Nolan's Bruce is only Batman twice before his retirement - because he was given The Joker card at the end of the BB and the Joker is in TDK. Forgeting of coures the year or so gap between the films, the references to other adventures(is that the right word?), Bruce's scars, etc - as opposed to being out on patrol every night, when at the end of Tim Burton's Batman he pretty much leaves a letter saying I'm done now but if you ever need me again use this signal. Such a bizzare complaint.

I also got bored with Smith going on about how stupid it was Rachel's death made Bruce quit Batman for 8 years and how much of a departure it was from the character in the comics. Well, for one, it wasn't Rachel's death that made him quit, it was taking the fall for Harvey and the fact he felt he wasn't needed anymore. Rachel's death and his guilt is what stops him moving on after hanging up the cape and cowl. He also points out that Batman never quit in the comics after losing jason Todd as some sort of proof that this would never happen. I'm guessing he's never read The Dark Knight Returns then? Clearly a big influence on the film and on Batman as a whole, it depicts an older Bruce Wayne donning the cape once more after a long retirement following the death of one Jason Todd. Sure it's an elsweorld's tale and actually was printed before A Death in the Family, but come on.

The thing with Gordon sending all the cops into the tunnels being a plot hole also baffles me. One, its not every single cop as we see Gordon and others trying to track the bomb in the months before the final showdown, but more than that it's not a plot hole but a bad decision made by a character. As soon as Gordon says it I knew it was gonna turn bad. But Gordon is on the edge, hes been dragged down into the tunnels, seen an underground army, been shot and then ignored by his next-in-command. Frustrated and desperate, he makes a bad call. How is that a plot hole?

I'm actually reading the novelisation of The Dark Knight Rises at the moment, (I didn't bother with the first two but heard good things about this one and had it for Christmas anyway) and it does expand on the story seen in the film in some cool ways, from what I can only assume were deleted scenes / lines, etc. One thing that I thought was interesting is that at their first meeting Fox offers the high-tech brace for his leg but Bruce, quite forcibly, refuses. It's suggested that he doesn't seek medical attention for the injury because of guilt. Harvey was killed in the fall whereas he walked away with just a damaged knee. It's a constant reminder of his failure, (kind of like the Jason Todd suit in the cave from the comics I guess) and he only accepts the brace once he's decided to become Batman again.

< Message edited by Vadersville -- 6/1/2013 6:48:22 PM >

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 6/1/2013 8:56:19 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

The 'not enough Batman' complaint always seems daft to me as Nolan has said since BB that for him his films are about Bruce Wayne (and the different parts of his character), and to be fair, as much as I love Tim Burton's Batman (and to a lesser extent, Batman Returns) those films are all about the villians. Likewise, Smith complains that Nolan's Bruce is only Batman twice before his retirement - because he was given The Joker card at the end of the BB and the Joker is in TDK. Forgeting of coures the year or so gap between the films, the references to other adventures(is that the right word?), Bruce's scars, etc - as opposed to being out on patrol every night, when at the end of Tim Burton's Batman he pretty much leaves a letter saying I'm done now but if you ever need me again use this signal. Such a bizzare complaint.

I also got bored with Smith going on about how stupid it was Rachel's death made Bruce quit Batman for 8 years and how much of a departure it was from the character in the comics. Well, for one, it wasn't Rachel's death that made him quit, it was taking the fall for Harvey and the fact he felt he wasn't needed anymore. Rachel's death and his guilt is what stops him moving on after hanging up the cape and cowl. He also points out that Batman never quit in the comics after losing jason Todd as some sort of proof that this would never happen. I'm guessing he's never read The Dark Knight Returns then? Clearly a big influence on the film and on Batman as a whole, it depicts an older Bruce Wayne donning the cape once more after a long retirement following the death of one Jason Todd. Sure it's an elsweorld's tale and actually was printed before A Death in the Family, but come on.

The thing with Gordon sending all the cops into the tunnels being a plot hole also baffles me. One, its not every single cop as we see Gordon and others trying to track the bomb in the months before the final showdown, but more than that it's not a plot hole but a bad decision made by a character. As soon as Gordon says it I knew it was gonna turn bad. But Gordon is on the edge, hes been dragged down into the tunnels, seen an underground army, been shot and then ignored by his next-in-command. Frustrated and desperate, he makes a bad call. How is that a plot hole?

I'm actually reading the novelisation of The Dark Knight Rises at the moment, (I didn't bother with the first two but heard good things about this one and had it for Christmas anyway) and it does expand on the story seen in the film in some cool ways, from what I can only assume were deleted scenes / lines, etc. One thing that I thought was interesting is that at their first meeting Fox offers the high-tech brace for his leg but Bruce, quite forcibly, refuses. It's suggested that he doesn't seek medical attention for the injury because of guilt. Harvey was killed in the fall whereas he walked away with just a damaged knee. It's a constant reminder of his failure, (kind of like the Jason Todd suit in the cave from the comics I guess) and he only accepts the brace once he's decided to become Batman again.

Yeah id agree with all this.I think some fans expect to see the comic Batman exactly represented in the films.Its clear that this is NOLANS take on the character and unlike the comics, he gives Bruce Wayne a happy ending.

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Post #: 725

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 7/1/2013 2:27:56 AM

england_cmr

Posts: 70
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Whistler, British Columbia

I loved this film. Great performances all round, good story, just thoroughly entertaining. It didn't feel as good as 'The Dark Knight', if that makes sense, but was equally as entertaining. It was a bit more 'The Avengers' than 'The Dark Knight'. No bad thing obviously, just different.

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Post #: 726

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 7/1/2013 3:30:49 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

Since getting the Blu Ray trilogy for Christmas, I've watched The Dark Knight Rises again a couple of times. I thought maybe a couple of re-views in quick succession might help me better understand what so many people seem to have against the movie. But nope... I've actually enjoyed it more on each occasion, and picked up things that I missed at the cinema.

Also, after watching the complete trilogy back-to-back, it struck me just how perfect this series is as a trilogy. Even moreso than I even thought it was. Everything fits together perfectly, and even though they were all developed individually you'd really assuming just watching the movies that they were always planned as a three movie arc. It's just a shame that Rachel changed actresses between BB and TDK, as that's the only sore point in the whole trilogy (even if I do prefer Maggie Gyllenhaal to Katie Holmes).

I'm convinced that there's no way there's going to be a comic book movie/series that will top these ones. With all apologies to the countless comic writers in the world, this trilogy is the greatest Batman story ever told.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 7/1/2013 8:06:27 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Since getting the Blu Ray trilogy for Christmas, I've watched The Dark Knight Rises again a couple of times. I thought maybe a couple of re-views in quick succession might help me better understand what so many people seem to have against the movie. But nope... I've actually enjoyed it more on each occasion, and picked up things that I missed at the cinema.

Also, after watching the complete trilogy back-to-back, it struck me just how perfect this series is as a trilogy. Even moreso than I even thought it was. Everything fits together perfectly, and even though they were all developed individually you'd really assuming just watching the movies that they were always planned as a three movie arc. It's just a shame that Rachel changed actresses between BB and TDK, as that's the only sore point in the whole trilogy (even if I do prefer Maggie Gyllenhaal to Katie Holmes).

I'm convinced that there's no way there's going to be a comic book movie/series that will top these ones. With all apologies to the countless comic writers in the world, this trilogy is the greatest Batman story ever told.

This post is 100% Cool Breeze approved.

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Post #: 728

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 8/1/2013 10:51:12 AM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

Watched some of the special features on the Blu Ray last night, including the Batmobile documentary, which was highly entertaining until the last 15 minutes where they seemed to run out of things to say and filled it up with loads of meaningless nonsense with people completely overthinking why people like the Batmobile... it's a cool car! That's why people like it!

Then I watched the featurettes on the three lead characters, and one particular line struck me. "If we can make people care about Bruce Wayne so much that we don't care if he's in the costume or not, we've done our job". As a huge fan of the comics, I am probably a little biased, but I did really enjoy that this was Bruce Wayne's story more than any other Batman movie, and I didn't care about whether or not he was in the costume. I was watching Bruce overcome the odds, and him appearing in the costume was the pay-off. All of the best superhero stories focus on the real person as opposed to the alter ego. I wonder if they did do their job or not, because people who aren't fans of the comics tend to think the whole movie should be about Batman, and any moment Batman doesn't appear in full costume kicking ass is just filler. The same people seem to have a problem with so much focus being put on the secondary cast as well, whereas the secondary cast getting a chance to shine was one of my favourite aspects of the film. In all three movies, Gary Oldman finally delivered the James Gordon I knew from the comics and the animated series, instead of just a caricature that he'd grown into in all previous live action versions of the character.

I did have problems with the casting of Michael Caine as Alfred, the animated series and Michael Gough were so ingrained in my memory that I just couldn't get used to him speaking with a Caine's distinctive cockney accent. But other than that I do have to admit that he and Christian Bale nailed the relationship between him and Bruce. Alfred's caring and sarcasm disguising a genuine fear for Bruce's safety and sanity is exactly right. And my problems with Gordon-Levitt not playing a comic book character have since disappeared in a similar fashion. I still don't buy his "I saw you smile and knew you were Batman" story, though. Anyone who saw their parents gunned down in front of them could have to hide their true feelings with a fake smile... not anyone would decide to get the best combat training in the world, dress as a bat and hunt criminals as a lifestyle choice. I'm sure there was a way for Blake to have learned Batman's identity that was more convincing.

In any case, for me personally, I was glad to see films that treated the secondary characters with respect, gave convincing versions of the villains, and firmly cemented itself as Bruce Wayne's story, and not Batman's.

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Post #: 729

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 10/1/2013 3:48:33 PM

Vitamin F

Posts: 557
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Norn Ireland, so it is

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Also, after watching the complete trilogy back-to-back, it struck me just how perfect this series is as a trilogy. Even moreso than I even thought it was. Everything fits together perfectly, and even though they were all developed individually you'd really assuming just watching the movies that they were always planned as a three movie arc. It's just a shame that Rachel changed actresses between BB and TDK, as that's the only sore point in the whole trilogy (even if I do prefer Maggie Gyllenhaal to Katie Holmes).

This.
Yes, there are flaws and some plot points require more chewing before consumption, yet this makes for a great trilogy viewing. The good far, far outweighs the bad. I also put some of it's success down to not swamping the films in CGI - there are some big fx scenes, but overall it's much subtler.

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Post #: 730

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 12/1/2013 2:57:09 PM

Sutty

Posts: 3540
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: the front row

Is this the greatest superhero trilogy of all time. Probably. I do love these movies, and as so many have said the good far outweighs the bad. But the more I watch TDKR, the more flabberghasted I am at the amount of plot holes and utterly lazy exposition there is within it. Considering what had gone before I feel that overall Nolan dropped the ball on the last movie. For someone so seemingly smart, he has been supremely lazy with this final installment. Did he lose interest? Or simply lose sight of what was before him?
He was allowed to make a near 3 hour final installment and still couldn't get it quite right. If he felt the need to rush or cut corners, maybe he should of gone they way of HP and the Deathly Hallows and made two 2 and a bit hour movies....

I still enjoy these movies, but I'm not utterly convinced about Nolan anymore...

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Post #: 731

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 12/1/2013 7:37:07 PM

Vadersville

Posts: 2898
Joined: 30/9/2005

Almost finished the book of the film and there's another great bit that I wish they had kept in the final film. Just after he is saved by Batman from Bane's men, Blake asks him how he always seems to know where people are. Batman answers, that he lost someone close once and after that he breaks into their houses and plants a tracking device in the back of their neck whilst their sleeping. Blake laughs, thinking its a joke, thinks and then scratches the back of his neck.

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Post #: 732

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 18/1/2013 7:09:58 AM

jobloffski

Posts: 1837
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere

PLOT HOLE WATCH...HOW IN THE HOLY HELL DOES JGL'S CHARACTER KNOW WHERE HE WILL FIND GORDON WHEN HE WASHES OUT OF THE SEWERS IF AS THE BAD GUY SAYS GORDON MIGHT END UP AT ANY OF A NUMBER OF SEWER OUTLETS?

JGL is told a little earlier in the film, in relation to dead homeless people "Several times a month they wash out here"

So there is an explanation after all. A cop acring on what he knows anticipates gordons fate as being one that will end up with him floating his way out of the sewer and he goes where bodies are in the habit of ending up.

Once again the film doesn't fail, either in giving enough info to make sense, or on character based dialogue and action...the cops assume the bodies are all homeless people because they don't know about Bane's activities. The crook assumes there is no way to find the body because unlike the police he hasnt been finding the bodies. And JGL's character finds Gordon because in these films the path to success is in will, the will to act, to do what is necessary. And because Jgl isn't allowed to enter the sewers he simply rushes to where Gordon is most likely to end up, given the dangerous situation. Job's a good 'un ;-)

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Post #: 733

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 18/1/2013 8:21:51 AM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

Heh... I just assumed he ran along all of them until he found him...

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Post #: 734

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 18/1/2013 8:31:49 AM

Dannybohy

Posts: 944
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

PLOT HOLE WATCH...HOW IN THE HOLY HELL DOES JGL'S CHARACTER KNOW WHERE HE WILL FIND GORDON WHEN HE WASHES OUT OF THE SEWERS IF AS THE BAD GUY SAYS GORDON MIGHT END UP AT ANY OF A NUMBER OF SEWER OUTLETS?

JGL is told a little earlier in the film, in relation to dead homeless people "Several times a month they wash out here"

So there is an explanation after all. A cop acring on what he knows anticipates gordons fate as being one that will end up with him floating his way out of the sewer and he goes where bodies are in the habit of ending up.

Once again the film doesn't fail, either in giving enough info to make sense, or on character based dialogue and action...the cops assume the bodies are all homeless people because they don't know about Bane's activities. The crook assumes there is no way to find the body because unlike the police he hasnt been finding the bodies. And JGL's character finds Gordon because in these films the path to success is in will, the will to act, to do what is necessary. And because Jgl isn't allowed to enter the sewers he simply rushes to where Gordon is most likely to end up, given the dangerous situation. Job's a good 'un ;-)

Human pooh sticks

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Post #: 735

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 18/1/2013 6:11:06 PM

Phubbs

Posts: 660
Joined: 3/4/2012

The bottom line...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQJuGeqdbn4

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Post #: 736

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 18/1/2013 6:27:51 PM

rich

Posts: 4133
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

Not without it's flaws, but this nit-pick video "review" trend is really annoying

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 5:10:51 AM

Phubbs

Posts: 660
Joined: 3/4/2012

But funny and really quite accurate I'm afraid

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Post #: 738

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 6:17:30 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

But funny and really quite accurate I'm afraid

The same video could be made for any film really.All films have plot holes if you look hard enough.Or their there if you really want to see them.TDKR has no plot holes in my opinion.

(in reply to Phubbs)

Post #: 739

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 7:57:49 PM

Vadersville

Posts: 2898
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

But funny and really quite accurate I'm afraid

It's actually neither of these.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 8:03:43 PM

Sutty

Posts: 3540
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: the front row

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

But funny and really quite accurate I'm afraid

The same video could be made for any film really.All films have plot holes if you look hard enough.Or their there if you really want to see them.TDKR has no plot holes in my opinion.

Hilarious!!!

Its a good film but come on! No plot holes? Seriously?!?!?

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Post #: 741

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 8:17:12 PM

rich

Posts: 4133
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

It depends, plot holes are genuine screw ups in writing. Most of the problems in TDKR are just badly explained or things that people really want to pick holes in instead of thinking about for 2 seconds. They've probably all been discussed or explained to some degree already in this thread. As if movies are flawless logic machines that need to be analysed to pass some kind of grade instead of just narratives full of narrative devices. As the Out-take version suggests, as it makes more fun of the Honest Trailer and it's fans rather than the movie, and is actually funny:

clicky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acYl2lpq1YI

< Message edited by rich -- 19/1/2013 8:18:36 PM >

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Post #: 742

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 9:31:58 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9852
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

Not without it's flaws, but this nit-pick video "review" trend is really annoying

Indeed. The ability to be able to read a film and understand the overall picture of what it was going for seems to have been replaced by nitpickers who think they're oh so smart and funny.

On the flipside, the virtues of directing, cinematography, writing and acting have been replace by "OMG, 4 Marvel superheroes in a film! Great thing ever!" "OMG they referenced that guy's hammer from issue #345! 5 STAAAAAAAAAAAAARS!"

< Message edited by directorscut -- 19/1/2013 9:35:06 PM >

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Post #: 743

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 10:51:33 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18883
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

It is great you have all decided that criticism of the movie is down to nitpickers.

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Post #: 744

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 10:57:23 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9852
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

It is great you have all decided that criticism of the movie is down to nitpickers.

I didn't say that.

I was referring to this type of review trend in general, not just of this movie.

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Post #: 745

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 11:01:21 PM

rich

Posts: 4133
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

It is great you have all decided that criticism of the movie is down to nitpickers.

I gave it 3/5. I just don't like these type of videos and their way of going about it.

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Post #: 746

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 11:03:56 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18883
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

I think internal logic is important, and you are right - even great films have issues. It becomes a problem if there is a lot of them in a single piece - demostrates a lack of attention/care.

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Post #: 747

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 19/1/2013 11:05:33 PM

directorscut

Posts: 9852
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I think internal logic is important, and you are right - even great films have issues. It becomes a problem if there is a lot of them in a single piece - demostrates a lack of attention/care.

North by Northwest?

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Post #: 748

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/1/2013 12:47:07 AM

Sutty

Posts: 3540
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: the front row

I get that sometimes portions of movies or plotlines happen "off screen". Otherwise movies would either be 5 hours long or filled with mind numbing exposition.

But I think that Nolan, in relation to TDKR, relies on this a little too much. I don't mind having to put some of the pieces together myself (quite enjoy it), but I do like the majority of the film to be up on the screen. Especially when the film is nearly three hours long.

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Post #: 749

RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/1/2013 9:15:11 AM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

It is. The stuff that isn't up on screen isn't stuff that needs to be up on screen, because you can work it out for yourself, or because it is irrelevant to the story.

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