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RE: The Dark Knight Rises

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 1:59:51 PM   
Hood_Man


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 3:18:36 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 240
Joined: 4/3/2012
Did anyone watch Charlie Brooker's 2012 wipe last night? He described Dark Knight Rises is a superhero film for people who like to think they're watching the seventh seal when what they're actually watching is a childrens film and that calling a Batman film The Dark Knight was to make him seem more serious and that it was majorly pretentious and no more intellectually nourishing than the adam west film which was a better film because it knew it wasn't anything more than camp and fun.

Does anyone agree with this?

To me it seems like Charlie Brooker doesn't know much about Batman, there's loads of different interpretations over the years, some of them goofy and light hearted, while some are dark and moody. Also the fact that he thinks that it's called The Dark Knight to make it seem more serious when really it's cos it's another name the character has had for decades indicates he doesn't know much about it. Plus the past two films have been of a similar tone so why go see Rises if he didn't like the previous two films.

He annoyed me earlier this year when he tweeted something along the lines of "why would I go see Avengers? i'm not a child." and in an article he recently did explained that Rises and Avengers were 'Chadult' films, kids films that adults go to see out of irony (Avengers) or pretentious (Rises). Now he's complaining that Rises is so bad because it's trying to be serious while he doesn't think much of Avengers either and people only like it to be ironic, and yet Avengers is the opposite of everything he disliked in Rises and he still puts it down.

Tbh i've been thinking for a while that Brooker has just started hating things for the sake of it, but this just really put me off of him. Mocking a film for trying to be something it's not (while not understanding that the character is like that in different interpretations) then when given a film which is exactly what it's supposed to be (Avengers) he still mocks it for being infantile and that people who go see it are doing it only out of irony? wtf?

< Message edited by giggity -- 2/1/2013 3:21:36 PM >

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 3:22:33 PM   
elab49


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One place or t'other rather than duplicating discussions please - which post would you rather retain? 

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 3:24:22 PM   
rich


Posts: 4139
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
 I like a lot of what Charlie Brooker has to say, but let's be honest he's talking rubbish. The whole Dark Knight title thing is clearly drawn from the titles of past stories, and the movie series takes from some of the most serious of those like The Long Halloween. People that like to use the phrase "acting your age" or things along those lines annoy me too.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 3:27:19 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 240
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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

One place or t'other rather than duplicating discussions please - which post would you rather retain? 


I posted it here because it was related to Batman and I posted it in musings because I thought it could provoke a wider discussion on if Superhero films could ever be viewed as anything higher than kids entertainment with criticisms like Brooker's aimed at it, few people come on here compared to who come into musings so I posted here for the opinion and musings for the wider discussion.

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Post #: 665
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 3:44:00 PM   
BagEnder

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 2/1/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

I like a lot of what Charlie Brooker has to say, but let's be honest he's talking rubbish. The whole Dark Knight title thing is clearly drawn from the titles of past stories, and the movie series takes from some of the most serious of those like The Long Halloween. People that like to use the phrase "acting your age" or things along those lines annoy me too.



Brooker seems to have turned into a parody of himself and has utterly lost his edge, therefore he now seems to slag things off just for the hell of it. In short, he's wrong about TDKR.

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Post #: 666
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 3:55:58 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 240
Joined: 4/3/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: BagEnder


quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

I like a lot of what Charlie Brooker has to say, but let's be honest he's talking rubbish. The whole Dark Knight title thing is clearly drawn from the titles of past stories, and the movie series takes from some of the most serious of those like The Long Halloween. People that like to use the phrase "acting your age" or things along those lines annoy me too.



Brooker seems to have turned into a parody of himself and has utterly lost his edge, therefore he now seems to slag things off just for the hell of it. In short, he's wrong about TDKR.


I did wonder after watching the Black Mirror episode about talent shows whether that was Brooker admitting to this in a sort, with saying he's just as part of the machine that he likes to mock so much.

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Post #: 667
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 3:56:30 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 660
Joined: 3/4/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
But this is just talking out because I was hypnotized by hype, otherwise I would have given it a 2.


Well that goes without saying.



You both mock but unfortunately its very true haha simply because of the popularity of 'TDK' this film was shoved down our throats with hype for an age. It has come to a point where people mock and think you're odd if you didn't like any of the Nolan trilogy! In this day n age hype does have a lot of swing within the movie industry and many film goers are easily swayed. 'TDKR' is a very average film with a terribly messy plot chock full of holes, had this been any other film I guarantee most of you would be all over it like a swarm of ants taking it apart.

The fact its the third Batman film in the Nolan series you stick up for it and try to ignore the issues, you're biased towards it like many are, some might say fanboyism. I just look at the film like any other from a neutral stand point. I didn't hate the film but I don't try to cover up its mistakes by saying 'the film doesn't have to explain that point cos we know how it goes' or 'he's Batman...that's why'. If a film is good then we shouldn't have to ask all these questions, these amusing U-tube clips wouldn't be around.

Another point which I made in my review is this film and the franchise is made as a serious grown up action film...for adults. That's fine, but if you're going for that and then the film is chock full of plot holes and silliness you gotta expect people to have a go at it with a fine tooth comb. If the film is more light hearted like the Burton Batmans then not so much.

< Message edited by Phubbs -- 2/1/2013 4:02:29 PM >

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:02:50 PM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 777
Joined: 2/9/2010
I watched Brooker ...

I thought he was quite funny (although I disagreed with his points about the film, for instance, all those clips of Bane I understood every word Bane said, maybe he needs to go for a hearing test!).

I 100% agree with you on the "why would I go see Avengers? i'm not a child" point. The man is a massive computer game geek. I don't play computer games "why would I play computer games, I'm not a child", it just misses the point of the wider appeal of that type of entertainment, it gets a laugh amongst those who agree with that opinion though, which is the point I suppose, it is a comedy show, (see also Stewart Lee on Harry Potter books).

Also I don't play golf, "why would I play golf, I'm not a smug, middle class, pringle wearing cunt" - see as a joke it can work on any subject

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Post #: 669
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:02:54 PM   
shool


Posts: 9612
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs
The fact its the third Batman film in the Nolan series you stick up for it and try to ignore the issues, you're biased towards it like many are, some might say fanboyism. I just look at the film like any other from a neutral stand point.

I didn't hate the film but I don't try to cover up its mistakes by saying 'the film doesn't have to explain that point cos we know how it goes' or 'he's Batman...that's why'.


1. Thanks for telling me what I think. If you could kindly point me towards any fanboy posts I've made I would be most grateful.
2. Where did I stick up for the plot stretching points? I said it was a good, not a great film.

I think you are putting alot of words in peoples mouths here.


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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:05:43 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 6227
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

It has come to a point where people mock and think you're odd if you didn't like any of the Nolan trilogy!



Show me on instance in which this happened on this board. Do you frequent other film boards, or is this just predicated on specious crap like your initial post?

quote:



in this day n age hype does have a lot of swing within the movie industry and many film goers are easily swayed. 'TDKR' is a very average film with a terribly messy plot chock full of holes, had this been any other film I guarantee most of you would be all over it like a swarm of ants taking it apart.


Yeah, or maybe a lot of people actually liked it. Cruel and unusual, huh?

quote:



The fact its the third Batman film in the Nolan series you stick up for it and try to ignore the issues, you're biased towards it like many are, some might say fanboyism. I just look at the film like any other from a neutral stand point. I didn't hate the film but I don't try to cover up its mistakes by saying 'the film doesn't have to explain that point cos we know how it goes' or 'he's Batman...that's why'.



Oh, do shut up. The people who have stood up for this film have also addressed the plot holes and what-not. Those who think it doesn't have any plot holes have addressed these issues intelligently and without resorting to fanboyism. The only time people get irate is when fools like you and Dannyboy have willfully ignored other people's post and accused them of being fanboys. Grow up.

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Post #: 671
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:05:46 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 660
Joined: 3/4/2012
I'm not saying you I'm saying general, film goers as a whole.

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Post #: 672
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:06:12 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 11281
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
But this is just talking out because I was hypnotized by hype, otherwise I would have given it a 2.


Well that goes without saying.



You both mock but unfortunately its very true haha simply because of the popularity of 'TDK' this film was shoved down our throats with hype for an age. It has come to a point where people mock and think you're odd if you didn't like any of the Nolan trilogy! In this day n age hype does have a lot of swing within the movie industry and many film goers are easily swayed. 'TDKR' is a very average film with a terribly messy plot chock full of holes, had this been any other film I guarantee most of you would be all over it like a swarm of ants taking it apart.

The fact its the third Batman film in the Nolan series you stick up for it and try to ignore the issues, you're biased towards it like many are, some might say fanboyism. I just look at the film like any other from a neutral stand point. I didn't hate the film but I don't try to cover up its mistakes by saying 'the film doesn't have to explain that point cos we know how it goes' or 'he's Batman...that's why'. If a film is good then we shouldn't have to ask all these questions, these amusing U-tube clips wouldn't be around.

Another point which I made in my review is this film and the franchise is made as a serious grown up action film...for adults. That's fine, but if you're going for that and then the film is chock full of plot holes and silliness you gotta expect people to have a go at it with a fine tooth comb. If the film is more light hearted like the Burton Batmans then not so much.


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Post #: 673
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:10:18 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 660
Joined: 3/4/2012
Hehe you see this is why its hard to have a proper debate on certain films...especially the Nolan Batmans, because some folk are so obsessed with it you resort to poor childish replies that only go to show you can't really argue the case. I don't have to prove my points they are everywhere for you all to see and read, and you mock me for using the term 'fanboyism' you're just proving my point.

And yes I'm on many movie forums for which I review.

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Post #: 674
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:10:24 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 6227
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

I'm not saying you I'm saying general, film goers as a whole.


And how does that make your argument any less specious.?

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:11:16 PM   
shool


Posts: 9612
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

I'm not saying you I'm saying general, film goers as a whole.


You quoted my post, and addressed me and Deviation in your post. Thereby either directly, or by extension accusing us of being unbalanced.

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Post #: 676
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:11:56 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 6227
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Hehe you see this is why its hard to have a proper debate on certain films...especially the Nolan Batmans, because some folk are so obsessed with it you resort to poor childish replies that only go to show you can't really argue the case. I don't have to prove my points they are everywhere for you all to see and read, and you mock me for using the term 'fanboyism' you're just proving my point.



Obvious shit stirrer is obvious. I'm done with this guy.

quote:



And yes I'm on many movie forums for which I review.



Yes, poorly I might add.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:12:36 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 660
Joined: 3/4/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

I'm not saying you I'm saying general, film goers as a whole.


You quoted my post, and addressed me and Deviation in your post. Thereby either directly, or by extension accusing us of being unbalanced.



Yep I did well done, that's because you both mocked the idea of hype which is amusing really.

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Post #: 678
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:15:35 PM   
shool


Posts: 9612
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs


quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

I'm not saying you I'm saying general, film goers as a whole.


You quoted my post, and addressed me and Deviation in your post. Thereby either directly, or by extension accusing us of being unbalanced.



Yep I did well done, that's because you both mocked the idea of hype which is amusing really.



Oh! Ok.

Independent thought is for losers anyway.


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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:21:00 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 660
Joined: 3/4/2012
^You don't believe hype has anything to do with a films performance!!!!?

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Post #: 680
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:27:38 PM   
shool


Posts: 9612
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
 We are not talking about Box office here though. We are talking about people liking the film or not or (allegedly) defending plot holes which is completely different.
I would certainly argue that Hype doesnt have a bearing on my enjoyment of a film. Hence why I only found this film good not great.

Plenty of really hyped films here that I've had all sorts of reactions too. Good bad and ugly.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:28:22 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 11281
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Hehe you see this is why its hard to have a proper debate on certain films...especially the Nolan Batmans, because some folk are so obsessed with it you resort to poor childish replies that only go to show you can't really argue the case. I don't have to prove my points they are everywhere for you all to see and read, and you mock me for using the term 'fanboyism' you're just proving my point.

And yes I'm on many movie forums for which I review.

Your argument collapses like a dream within a dream within a dream within a dream within a dream within a dream within a dream... because you immediately assume that because I find the above to be arrogant and patronising, I must be a Nolan fanboy.

I just dislike it when someone has the audacity to dismiss the opinions of others because they think differently, which is all you've done. You say there's no chance of "proper debate," but your attitude suggests you're not interested in debate whatsoever.

Nobody, nobody invites discussion by accusing people of lying or following a crowd.

Hehe lol rofl lmao or whatever else I need to add at this point because I'm being called out on my trolling ways & rather than admit I've been daft I'm going to pretend that I'm not bothered ha...

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Post #: 682
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:36:07 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 660
Joined: 3/4/2012
'Trolling' another often used term when people dismiss or can't argue a case.

I'm not dismissing opinions I'm pointing out the fact some folk always dismiss the errors in the film which I believe is because its the third Nolan Batman film. As I said had this been another film I'm sure it would be different.

This suggests to me Nolan fanboyism at least.

< Message edited by Phubbs -- 2/1/2013 4:37:13 PM >

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Post #: 683
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:37:27 PM   
shool


Posts: 9612
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
 Why do you think this is different to usual suspension of disbelief when watching many movies?

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Post #: 684
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:48:14 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 660
Joined: 3/4/2012
Because this franchise has always been targeted at a more adult audience, that's it 'thing', a gritty realistic Batman...which is cool yes. 'BB' was decent and 'TDK' was decent but this film loses it completely. There are so many issues with the film and this is why its been picked at, the fact its been mega hyped doesn't help either. Without a huge fanfare I reckon many folk wouldn't bother so much with the plot issues, they may have accepted it as more of a decent film, a surprise decent film, but when its heralded like it has been this is what happens.

Its not just with 'TDKR', if any film was like this I would still say the same thing, I just think there is favouritism with this one

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Post #: 685
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:54:26 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1837
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From: elsewhere
 Well there would be favouritism or at least good feeling towards a film in a section of the forum called Favourite Films.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 4:58:21 PM   
rich


Posts: 4139
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
 No there should be a decent discussion instead of this nonsense at the drop of a hat

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 5:37:02 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1837
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
 Well, yes, of course. But by the time a film has been speculated upon for several years pre-release, championed and/or damned in the review pages post release and opinions on the actual film are formed, there's not really a lot else to say that hasn't already been cheered, bitched and moaned about a million times to the same minimal avail.

And on that note, I'll probably give it a rest myself.

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 2/1/2013 5:51:40 PM >

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 7:57:02 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 18905
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From: Punishment Park
 I really hate not liking this movie and being in the company of others who don't like it. It feels like we all get grouped together.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/1/2013 8:12:49 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 240
Joined: 4/3/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I really hate not liking this movie and being in the company of others who don't like it. It feels like we all get grouped together.



I feel the same way about liking the film and trying to talk about why I like it on a site like badass digest who it seems like anyone they've seen talk about why they like the film is a massive fanboy or 'batjihadist'. It's really hard to have a debate or get your point across when the other person's just thinking 'sure, keep wanking off to Nolan...' or getting a tonne of downvotes.

< Message edited by giggity -- 2/1/2013 8:13:17 PM >

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