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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/8/2012 10:13:22 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 4/3/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prophet_of_Doom


quote:

kumar

I looked out for that the second time I saw it, and it really does come down to Batman jumping out last minute over the ocean, which is a bit daft I reckon. I was able to follow quite closely this time around, despite being a bit drunk. This maybe because I wasnt completely lost in an IMAX screen (they really are big). The middle really does lag, though i suppose it does help us realise how long batman is supposed to have been gone. My main gripe about the ending is Alfred. The ending is emotional in itself, but Michael Caine smacks it out of the park, it was a beautiful scene, which I think having Wayne be alive at the end cheapened.

Bane was just awesome though, I loved every bit of his scene time. Is it a bit much to have asked for more Bat v Bane?


I had exactly the same main gripe. Although the ending was the one most people wanted (me included) and it tied up everything nicely, it just made a nonsense of that absolutely heart-wrenching moment where Alfred is clearly torn to his very soul by a sense of responsibility for what has happened. And then he sees Batman in that cafe and realises he's okay and not so much as a lump in the throat. If Batman's death had torn Alfred apart, the realisation that he was - in fact - alive, would surely have left him a blubbing wreck on the floor?!?! So it just felt like it cheapened that wonderful previous scene with Caine.


You don't think Lucius would have told him about the autopilot being fixed? or Gordon telling him about the bat-signal being replaced? Then finding out the pearls were still missing and he tracked it to the exact same place that he told wayne about earlier. I think by then he knew he was alive, the meeting at the cafe was just to say thank you and sorry to Alfred. And they both did what Alfred said he wanted which was to not say anything, just nod and know that Bruce was happy.

(in reply to Prophet_of_Doom)
Post #: 391
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 25/8/2012 10:46:26 PM   
Prophet_of_Doom

 

Posts: 756
Joined: 15/2/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Prophet_of_Doom


quote:

kumar

I looked out for that the second time I saw it, and it really does come down to Batman jumping out last minute over the ocean, which is a bit daft I reckon. I was able to follow quite closely this time around, despite being a bit drunk. This maybe because I wasnt completely lost in an IMAX screen (they really are big). The middle really does lag, though i suppose it does help us realise how long batman is supposed to have been gone. My main gripe about the ending is Alfred. The ending is emotional in itself, but Michael Caine smacks it out of the park, it was a beautiful scene, which I think having Wayne be alive at the end cheapened.

Bane was just awesome though, I loved every bit of his scene time. Is it a bit much to have asked for more Bat v Bane?


I had exactly the same main gripe. Although the ending was the one most people wanted (me included) and it tied up everything nicely, it just made a nonsense of that absolutely heart-wrenching moment where Alfred is clearly torn to his very soul by a sense of responsibility for what has happened. And then he sees Batman in that cafe and realises he's okay and not so much as a lump in the throat. If Batman's death had torn Alfred apart, the realisation that he was - in fact - alive, would surely have left him a blubbing wreck on the floor?!?! So it just felt like it cheapened that wonderful previous scene with Caine.


You don't think Lucius would have told him about the autopilot being fixed? or Gordon telling him about the bat-signal being replaced? Then finding out the pearls were still missing and he tracked it to the exact same place that he told wayne about earlier. I think by then he knew he was alive, the meeting at the cafe was just to say thank you and sorry to Alfred. And they both did what Alfred said he wanted which was to not say anything, just nod and know that Bruce was happy.


It's a difficult one ... because I'm obviously projecting what I think would be genuine human emotions on what is essentially a comic adaptation. But I think even with all as you have described ... after all that he and Alfred had been through together ... and having seen, in that one scene, the huge amount of baggage that Alfred carried ... that it would have been impossible for Alfred to contain his emotions. There would have been so much gone left unsaid between them. Alfred would always have had slight doubts in his mind ... that Lucius or Gordon were just trying to reassure him etc ... The difficulty is that I wouldn't want to lose either moment. I thought Alfred's breakdown was one of the most affecting moments in the trilogy (and one of the most honest pieces of acting I've seen from Caine) and I don't think it would have worked in the context of the film (nor would I have wanted it) if Alfred had shown huge amounts of emotion in that final scene. But, I just don't believe that the two scenes could exist in the same film without one of them telling the audience a lie in some respect. The only way around it would have been for Alfred to simply been present at the funeral, without his 'breakdown'. But then I'd lose my favourite moment!

(in reply to giggity)
Post #: 392
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 26/8/2012 8:36:07 AM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
The ending gives Alfred the fulfillment of his dearest wish. He would already have had his emotional reaction upon learning of Brice's survival.

The ending fulfils every one of Bruce's wishes, re the creation of Batman as an everlasting symbol for Gotham, with any suitable person able to wear the suit, and the chance of a normal life that Rachel represented (but only from his POV), with Selina.

The ending gives the two guys everything they wanted, and everything they needed, and Nolan gets away with potential cheese admirably.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Prophet_of_Doom)
Post #: 393
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 26/8/2012 10:16:00 AM   
Prophet_of_Doom

 

Posts: 756
Joined: 15/2/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

The ending gives Alfred the fulfillment of his dearest wish. He would already have had his emotional reaction upon learning of Brice's survival.

The ending fulfils every one of Bruce's wishes, re the creation of Batman as an everlasting symbol for Gotham, with any suitable person able to wear the suit, and the chance of a normal life that Rachel represented (but only from his POV), with Selina.

The ending gives the two guys everything they wanted, and everything they needed, and Nolan gets away with potential cheese admirably.


Completely disagree (and it seems to be the reason why most people thought that the ending was all in Alfred's mind) but I have to value your opinion. That said, it's also the ending I wanted, so I can't complain. Not that it's stopped me

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 394
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 30/8/2012 6:37:58 PM   
the anomaly


Posts: 6423
Joined: 20/6/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity


quote:

ORIGINAL: the anomaly


quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity


quote:

ORIGINAL: the anomaly


quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity


quote:

ORIGINAL: kumar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah

How it should have ended Dark Knight Rises

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLyoog562x4&list=UUHCph-_jLba_9atyCZJPLQQ&index=1&feature=plcp

Alot of time HISHE are shits and giggles. However sometimes they makes valid points like Transformers 2 or Matrix Revolution. The ending including Clark Kent in one of the alternatives ending is brilliant and it's a shame Nolan never went down that route. Imaging having Routh's Clark Kent having a drink with Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle. Implying Superman arrived in time to save Batman from the explosion. That makes more sense than having Batman having to glide ten miles in thirty seconds.


I looked out for that the second time I saw it, and it really does come down to Batman jumping out last minute over the ocean, which is a bit daft I reckon. I was able to follow quite closely this time around, despite being a bit drunk. This maybe because I wasnt completely lost in an IMAX screen (they really are big). The middle really does lag, though i suppose it does help us realise how long batman is supposed to have been gone. My main gripe about the ending is Alfred. The ending is emotional in itself, but Michael Caine smacks it out of the park, it was a beautiful scene, which I think having Wayne be alive at the end cheapened.

Bane was just awesome though, I loved every bit of his scene time. Is it a bit much to have asked for more Bat v Bane?


Not really, the scene is still pretty fantastic regardless. To me the ending is great for two reasons,
1. In the comics, Bruce Wayne will never have a happy ending. He will always be Batman, he will always sacrifice and will always suffer to save Gotham. Same with the previous films, Even in the animated series Batman Beyond, when Bruce is no longer Batman. Bruce is shown as old, alone, angry. The ending to Dark Knight Rises finally gave him a happy ending, he has his own life to live now. Ever since he was a little boy he's been lost and not known where he belongs in the world and constantly fighting out of vengeance, but finally he gets some happiness, he's with Selina and he can go do whatever he wants and leave Gotham.
2. Bruce knows he was wrong in the way he acted towards Alfred and to say he's sorry he constructs Alfred's biggest wish. He gets Selina to wear the pearls with the tracking device so alfred can find them. He sits at the same cafe that he told him about earlier and he shows him he's okay and finally happy. It's both Bruce saying sorry and thank you for all he's done. It's a very beautiful moment between the two.



Missed that line on the first watch. But that's another reason why it's clear he is alive.

On another note Bruce is wounded in Dark Knight Rises and despite two people who bring him back to life (Selina/Talia) betraying him, it's quite a change of character for him to try again and trust right away. Which again marks a huge change in character and progression for him to carry on.

I have to say though ...I can't see Bruce just leaving Blake to it. I'd think he'd at least train him to Batman at some point. I do wonder if he'd leave Bruce Wayne dead forever. Hell he'd lost a shit load of his money as noted at the end of the film the fraud wasn't sorted. Sure he was rich but ... rich enough to fund another Batman?


As soon as the gates close on Batman when catwoman takes him to Bane you see the regret on her face, and she spends the rest of the movie sorry for what she did. Bruce suspects theres more good to her, and right at the end she kisses him so I'd gather by then he trusts her. Plus we don't know how long the cafe scene is after the explosion of the bomb.

He didn't just leave him to it, he gave Blake all of the resources that Bruce owned to use. It wasn't all new stuff but the stuff he already owned like the suit, batpod etc...



Bruce Wayne


Educated at the best schools / Prviately
Travels the globe undercover to study the mind of a criminal
Trains & educates himself physically
Trained by the league of shadows to become Ras's right hand/successor
Becomes Batman & co develops tech with Fox

Blake
Trained as a cop
Handed the bat cave

Id say thats leaving him to it! Sure Bruce trusts him and believes his background suits but he'd have loads to teach Blake. Even if Blakes years in the GCPD out weigh Waynes travels Bruce could still teach him to be Batman.

The how it should have ended was hillarious as always :) "Get busy swimming, or get busy dying" :D


Well going back to Batman Begins, when duelling with ra's on the ice Bruce says "I've had training" and Ra's replies "Training is nothing, Will is everything. The will to act" It wasn't the training that made Bruce Batman it was his will to know what to do at a seconds notice and as we saw from Rises, Blake was very instinctive and acted on everything from finding gordon, to driving across half the city while it was under attack to rescue Gordon.


Think your splitting hairs here.

I've already agreed that Batman saw potential in Blake. I'm just pointing out the fact he would benefit from training from Bruce.

(in reply to giggity)
Post #: 395
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 11/9/2012 3:49:16 AM   
max314


Posts: 2746
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: London
BLAKE TO BRUCE: Midichlorians told me you were Batman.

_____________________________

MAX

Laying the 314 on your candy ass.

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Post #: 396
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 11/9/2012 3:57:23 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
You totes posted in this thread right now on purpose, Max...

< Message edited by homersimpson_esq -- 11/9/2012 4:01:05 AM >


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Post #: 397
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 13/9/2012 8:33:04 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2180
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan
I thought that might be it, but it leaves the question of how she knew, given it was all off the books and that Bane must have known about it for some time given the set-up he had underneath


Ra's al Ghul in BB:

"You are defending a city so corrupt, we (LoS) have infiltrated, every level of its infrastructure"

If you're going to have such a large 'warehouse' area for your applied sciences gear, it's bound to attract someone's attention. And since the LoS were resurgent and had re-built themselves over that eight-year gap, they would have conducted their own reconnoiter of Bruce Wayne's legacy shall we call it. Plus think about the staff needed to man such a place, technicians, security guards, handymen etc. Positions the LoS could infiltrate with their own men, perhaps even with sleeper agents.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Judge
O, and anyone who starts a favourite film thread without seeing the film really does just want to have a big thread to their name.


*Gavel hits* "You have been sentenced by the Judge!"


quote:

ORIGINAL: thedrin

In fact, it would almost make Batman taking the blame for Dent's crimes meaningless if he couldn't retire after doing so. Dent's work would allow Batman to retire. The film establishes this and, imo, doesn't retract this. Batman taking the fall for Dent allows Dent's work to be completed. I wasn't entirely certain at the end of The Dark Knight if this would happen, but the opening act of The Dark Knight Rises makes it clear that Dent's work was completed in light of his heroism.


Exactly. The eight-year gap was necessary because Batman's sacrifice needed gravitas, it needed impact and that could only be felt if enough time had elapsed to see the result of Batman sacrificing his name for the 'good' of the city.

Vadersville, remember what Alfred said in TDK:

"They'll hate you for it, but that's the point of Batman, he can be the outcast. He can make the choice that no one else can make, the right choice."

Even if Bruce didn't consciously think in the aftermath: "my sacrifice is to lay Batman to rest" - he nonetheless sacrificed him and by virtue of not donning the cape and cowl for eight years. He had retired just like he intended to, only it came at the price of Dent's life and his ruinous actions. As Alfred has warned Bruce: "you thought there wouldn't be casualties?"


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville
The auto-pilot scene alone debunks it yet people continue to go on... That said, I also can't believe that some people think that Liam Neeson was playing the ghost of Ra's Al Ghul. Besides the fact that its made clear Bruce is hallucinating, this version of Ra's confirms that Bane is his son, which is later shown to be false. The reason why this version of Ra's says that is because its what Bruce thinks is true at that time. If it were actually Ra's' ghost he would know Bane wasn't his son.


Let's not forget the pearls that were unaccounted for which had a GPS tracking device for Alfred to monitor where Bruce and Selina were. Well it's highly likely that Ra's was a hallucination, Bruce's guilt and despair manifest. However, I think it's a perfectly valid reading to say that Ra's could genuinely have been he in spirit form, tormenting Bruce when he is at his weakest. I loved the line "there are different forms of immortality" (again coming back to teach Bruce another lesson - as he used to chide Bruce: "you never learned to mind your surroundings"..."you took my advice about theatricality a bit...literally!"). Of course "deception and theatricality are powerful agents"


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghidorah
Actually the point I was making it was a nice way to end the trilogy. However Nolan also added many homages to the previous film and constantly giving us the impression Batman will die. It wasn't needed and made the overall film worst. I also got the impression Nolan's ego got too big and you could see it in most of the Batman's scenes. Most of Rises' Batman scenes were completely different to the previous films. It felt like Nolan tried to make everytime Batman appeared on the scene he was cool and Nolan tried to make them excitable as possible. Not tense like in the previous films but giving us the impression it's cool to be Batman.


I don't know about that, seems a bit of a spurious claim about Nolan. To me, Batman in this film felt much differently to the other films. It's almost as though he was a bit more refined...almost more 'distinguished'. His poise was slightly different, almost as though this was a Batman who had a lot of experience and just seemed more assured perhaps. I think how Nolan did that was fascinating.

Right, I haven't given my verdict on the film: quite simply amazing. It easily beats TDK for me. Perhap this isn't a popular comment to make and I'm not trying to be contrarian here, but I honestly feel as though people get too caught up with Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker in TDK. I think they tend to be more forgiving of the flaws in that film. And despite it's elaborate staging and grand spectacle, it's a very emotionally cool film. It has a lot of clever ideas and scenes in it, and it delves into some quite weighty issues but there's simply no emotional heft in the film. For me, that's because Bruce Wayne/Batman felt oddly missing or sidelined in the film. Now it's an ensemble film but then aren't the others too? It's peculiar but here's how I felt after my first cinematic of each film: I came out of the BB viewing feeling utterly exhilirated and wowed; I came out of the TDKR viewing feeling slightly maudlin at the conclusion of a trilogy but stunned at its epicness; yet I was almost dulled and disappointed after my TDK viewing. And it has to be because I felt there was very little emotional engagement with the second film. There was no warmth between Rachel and Bruce (they should have kept on Katie Holmes). Dent's behavior after Rachel's death felt a bit too contrived and there were elements of his prior behaviour that were too (to coin a popular Empire phrase) 'on-the-nose'. Alfred and Bruce were the closest thing to being the 'heart' of the film but it lacked the tenderness of the first film. And we mostly had a Bruce Wayne who felt like the ice sculpture piece of the film. I think my disappointment also stemmed from my expectations for the film that were so high due to my level of enjoyment from watching BB.

So going into the third film, I had slightly mixed emotions. There was excitement but it was slightly dulled by my disengagement with the second film. I didn't want my hopes to be dashed once again, but boy was I in for a surprise. As soon as I saw Batman return during the chase, I felt like a little kid again. Four years worth of waiting and finally the watchful protector, the silent guardian, the dark knight had made his spectacular return.

Despite the numerous threads running through the film, I didn't find them too convoluted or overdone. The scale was larger, the stage was larger and the spectacle was certainly larger. I thought Bane was outstanding and I feel the ADR work improved the voice. Rather than sounding like an OAP dying for his last pack of Regal, he sounded authoritative and so assured. Yesh he does sound a bit Darth Connery but it works. The voice almost has a supernatural element to it and I think it made Bane seem like not just a guy with big muscles and a mask, but more like a terrible wraith. As Ra's would've put it. I wasn't too surprised when Talia made her appearance as most of us if not all of us knew she was in the film (you can't have Ra's but no Talia!). I have to say, Bruce and Alfred share their best scenes in the trilogy here. You could sense that palpable sense of sorrow, pain and anguish in Alfred's voice as he pleaded with Bruce not to go 'back out there'. And the weight and burden of carrying that terrible secret about Rachel...the way his voice broke, a man weary with worry and stress because the most precious thing to him only wanted to go out there to fail, so that his pain could be taken away. Really, this trilogy is Bruce Wayne's trilogy and whilst he seems absent in the second installment, the first and third entries make up for it and really just tell a fascinating, sometimes harrowing but utterly compelling tale of why one man decided to create an everlasting symbol that could stand anything arrayed against it.

There are a few niggly things that bothered me. Namely that Batman wasn't in the film as much. Sure it is Bruce Wayne's story, nonetheless it felt as though Batman was an afterthought slightly and his presence was sorely missed. But when he did turn up, the scenes were just incredible. And props to the guys for filming the most brutal scene in the trilogy. No music, just a lot of tension and a sense of foreboding: the first encounter between Bane and Batman. You could just sense Batman's desperation in fighting Bane and the way Bane just hammered Batman was difficult to watch but necessary to show. I thought Bane and Talia's plan to torture Bruce and Gotham made the Joker's play look small-scale. The Joker merely sought to corrupt the soul of Gotham, Bane and Talia wanted to torture every fibre of it, offer a fleeting moment of hope and then cruelly take it away. Going back to the lack of action, I felt the Bat Tumbler was sorely missed. I really don't understand it, but it seems that the Tumbler was very maligned after BB? I get the whole idea of introducing new vehicles with each film but the Tumbler was an incredible bit of production design which really fuelled what came after it. Seeing as there were other prototypes, I at least expected some amphibious version that could have been a proto-Batboat. As Nathan Crowley had said right after the release of TDK that he would like to design a Batboat should there be a third film. I realise production designs are always at the whim of the script, but seeing as Gotham has waterways and Wayne Manor is beyond the city limits, they could have accomodated it somehow. However, saying that the Batpod did shine and the Bat was a nice bit of kit. Did anyone feel though the Batpod when it performed it sideways roll it looked too CGI? There's one scene where we see the Batpod perform such a manoeuver in TDK and it looked real. I understand that they probably used a stunt driver for that one, hence why the difference. Still, it was a little bit distracting.

I just wanted to conclude by saying how much I thought they did such an excellent job of tying everything up. The story really came full-circle, and the great thing is it didn't feel wedged or jammed in. It's very clever how the "why do we fall?" theme (absent from the second film) came back to prominence when Bruce was in the pit. And how that scene contrasted with Bruce's first fall into the well (except he had to get himself out without the safety of a rope and with a re-discovered fear of death not bats). I really liked how they tied in Ra's talking about his wife being "taken" from him and how the third film elaborated on it without contradicting the first film. I think that's a testament to Chris Nolan and David Goyer's writing that left enough room for interpretation with that line in BB. I was thoroughly impressed with the soundtrack. I know the likes of Dr Lenera () aren't fans of Hans Zimmer and his Media Ventures protégés, but I felt the soundtrack more than made its impact with some very clever variations and new themes for Bane and Catwoman. I disagree that the Joker's screechy almost tortured theme was more memorable, Bane's had more punch.

A bit of an essay here, but then the The Dark Knight Trilogy merits such lengthy discussion. An example of fine film making by Nolan & Co and really one that has elevated Batman once again.

< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 13/9/2012 8:41:40 PM >


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Post #: 398
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 22/11/2012 7:33:13 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12191
Joined: 30/9/2005
Who knew Batman had such a potty mouth?

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6849597/batman-cant-stop-thinking-about-sex


(in reply to Emyr Thy King)
Post #: 399
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 24/11/2012 12:32:21 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 6994
Joined: 18/11/2006
a shot of selina from the BD-



http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a440493/dark-knight-rises-anne-hathaway-in-catwoman-featurette-watch.html


a girl's go to eat.

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Post #: 400
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 2/12/2012 4:06:34 PM   
Ref


Posts: 7432
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Leicester
Pre-ordered TDKR, was posted on Tuesday - got it yesterday. Brilliant Saturday night movie viewing at the Ref household

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Post #: 401
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 3/12/2012 10:25:32 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 6994
Joined: 18/11/2006
buy a bit of batman-

http://www.deadline.com/2012/12/tvs-original-batmobile-to-be-auctioned-off/

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Post #: 402
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 6/12/2012 10:55:57 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4394
Joined: 5/2/2012
I loved itand it will certainly get repeated viewings in my house.

One thing stood out,concerning all three Films as a whole,was the fact that they were all so different from each other in there creation/inceptions.

Batman Begins is very much like a independent Noir Art house film.It was very much,for me, a somewhat Claustrophobic take on Gothams worldly state and being.Everything about the film gave you the sense that this fictional character (batman) could only work in that part of the world.While the reality was outside Gotham everything other-wordly was in it.

The Dark Knight is somewhat the opposite.It was fictionally more grounded in our world ie the 9/11 references,so in that sense it felt like a film which was reaching out to the viewers own world situations.
The Joker holding the flame for the terrorists while Gotham and especially Bruce Wayne resembled America's fear over something/someone they knew little about.
I think the film went alittle to far with its sense of self importance because ,for me, Batman became all to real in this film.
A great film but it did lose some of that fictional charm that the first portrayed really well.

The Dark Knight Rise for me is a film with its intentions of being just that.A great film.
The film had that knowing wit/charm in its concept.It was a film that wanted to give a truer reflection of the caped crusader from the comics.The film had the purpose of being more fictional than something which was more grounded ie TDK.
The more the film was playing the more I felt of past action,stylized films.And know film came more to my mind than that of Sean Connery's and Terence Young's Dr No.
The film (TDKR) had that looseness to it.It wasn't taking it self seriously.And when you think about the concept/plot and characters in the film Nolan (and crew) could have easily have made TDKR more Darker than it actually was,but they purposefully drew back on that.
For me TDKR is the best and truer reflection of its comic counter part.It has that inconsistency and looseness in it which make Comic Books such a fine art medium,but this time it has transcended to the big screen.

Concerning the trilogy as its self.I don't think you can say it flows as good as the LOTR trilogy,but I don't think that's its intentions.
Its a strange case of the three films being unique and individual but at the same time being grouped in the same origins.
All three films stand on there own.You could even (loosely) say that the three films feel like they were directed by three different directors.

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 403
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 6/12/2012 12:03:29 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 4/3/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

I loved itand it will certainly get repeated viewings in my house.

One thing stood out,concerning all three Films as a whole,was the fact that they were all so different from each other in there creation/inceptions.

Batman Begins is very much like a independent Noir Art house film.It was very much,for me, a somewhat Claustrophobic take on Gothams worldly state and being.Everything about the film gave you the sense that this fictional character (batman) could only work in that part of the world.While the reality was outside Gotham everything other-wordly was in it.

The Dark Knight is somewhat the opposite.It was fictionally more grounded in our world ie the 9/11 references,so in that sense it felt like a film which was reaching out to the viewers own world situations.
The Joker holding the flame for the terrorists while Gotham and especially Bruce Wayne resembled America's fear over something/someone they knew little about.
I think the film went alittle to far with its sense of self importance because ,for me, Batman became all to real in this film.
A great film but it did lose some of that fictional charm that the first portrayed really well.

The Dark Knight Rise for me is a film with its intentions of being just that.A great film.
The film had that knowing wit/charm in its concept.It was a film that wanted to give a truer reflection of the caped crusader from the comics.The film had the purpose of being more fictional than something which was more grounded ie TDK.
The more the film was playing the more I felt of past action,stylized films.And know film came more to my mind than that of Sean Connery's and Terence Young's Dr No.
The film (TDKR) had that looseness to it.It wasn't taking it self seriously.And when you think about the concept/plot and characters in the film Nolan (and crew) could have easily have made TDKR more Darker than it actually was,but they purposefully drew back on that.
For me TDKR is the best and truer reflection of its comic counter part.It has that inconsistency and looseness in it which make Comic Books such a fine art medium,but this time it has transcended to the big screen.

Concerning the trilogy as its self.I don't think you can say it flows as good as the LOTR trilogy,but I don't think that's its intentions.
Its a strange case of the three films being unique and individual but at the same time being grouped in the same origins.
All three films stand on there own.You could even (loosely) say that the three films feel like they were directed by three different directors.



That's quite an interesting viewpoint on dark knight rises, despite everyone always saying that the films are majorly realistic, i've never found them all too realistic, and whenever I watch Dark Knight Rises I always get a strong batman the animated series feel as if this is the kind of batman film the creators would make, I mean the tale of two cities influenced kangaroo court scene with Jonathan Crane as a judge, I could completely see that as something Batman the animated series would have done, add to that the off kilter portrayal of Bane in this and Catwoman too. I loved it!

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 404
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 8/12/2012 2:42:16 AM   
rich


Posts: 5065
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
"Some days you just can't get rid of the bomb..."

Finally saw this. Easily the weakest entry, still had it's moments overall. Pacing and editing is really messy, muddled the story points without reason in a few places, these have been discussed at length already so I won't go into it. Unconvincing romance plots. Cliff Hanger style intro is the most fun part. Bane's exit from the movie was just a mind boggling choice. Thought he was fun overall, but the BD sound mix is really weird in places. Dialogue needs work, again (I came back to STOP YOU.... urrgh) but I didn't notice as many weird bit-parts like the other two movies. Still entertaining overall, just bigger flaws than the previous Nolan movies Batman or otherwise. Individual scenes stand out rather than the movie as a whole, show trials, Selina stuff early on, Bane's plan from the stadium onwards. Perhaps it will seem better on another viewing when I can concentrate better knowing the overall story. Not sure about the soundtrack at this stage, needs to be looked at more closely.

3/5


Side note; what exactly was freaking that guy out so much when he said something about Bane being pure evil? It reminded me of that Robocop men's room scene

Side note 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkMPZ7WeDck&feature=player_embedded

< Message edited by rich -- 9/12/2012 2:23:12 PM >


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Post #: 405
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 11/12/2012 11:47:28 AM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

Agree with a lot of those points, especially the ones about Bane's fate and Matthew Modine. The chase where he just abandons trying to catch a bunch of guys who'd shot up and robbed the stock exchange was ridiculous. It started so well, with the cop saying to his rookie partner something along the lines of "You're going to see a show tonight boy!" as Batman re-emerges from his (weird) self-imposed exile, but that stupid decision makes it such a daft scene. I'd also forgotten that apparently a broken back can be fixed by hauling someone up on a rope and physically pushing the bones back in - a medical procedure so effective it allows the patient to endure two bone-jarring falls with a rope around your waist and another pounding by the guy who broke it in the first place.


But in the circumstances, Batman is the guy who has been on the run for 8 years and killed Harvery Dent (who, given Gordon's lie, was only slightly more revered than God at this point). I don't think it was unreasonable that they go after Batman than Bane.

I actually liked Modine's development. He starts out as the selfish/cowardly cop and gradually gains some confidence/courage, him seeing the Batsign was a very nice touch imo.


They had a hundred cars. I am pretty sure they could have covered both Batman and Bane.


Actually it's a nice spin on TDK, in which Batman and Gordon both went after the wrong baddies instead of focusing on The Joker, and then reaping the consequences.

My take on the film now t's out for home viewing:

On second viewing, and third, increasingly better film. TDK feels very small once you've got into richer detail and wider scope TDKR. It's a story with a novelistic cinematic sweep following a very very good morality play.

And, entering smug mode, a long time ago I suggested that the ultimate defeat of Bane would involve the blades on Batman's gauntlets, just like they got him the advantage over his mentor and the Joker. Only on third viewing did I hear the sound of Banes mask being sliced by the gauntlet blades. Go me, etc

Seriously, though, the scope of this film, once you;ve got used to the new faces and they're no longer new faces, and the soundtrack, with the Deshi Deshi Bashra Bashra chant being all over the film, as a symbolic memory for Bane's despair in the prison he couldn't escape, symbolising inspiration and triumph for Bruce and as rhythmic drum version of the chant symbolising the struggle/climb against Bane, pretty fucking stirring stuff.

Miranda Tate features more in the film literally and in terms of actions than she originally seemed to, Matthew Modine's character arc is pretty strong, and he's also an in-joke: no Joker in the film, but he did play PRIVATE Joker in Full metal Jacket (and in Miranda Tate's sadistic reference to the 'slow knife' there is a surely a call back there to the Joker preferring knives because guns are too quick? and all the events of TDKR are the direct and continuing consequences of the actions of the Joker, in TDK, so it can hardly be said there is no part of the film for the Joker, even in the absence of a man in clown make up). The new faces in the cast, while making the film seem a little all over the place on first view all have crucial parts to play in the big scheme of things.

Could go on, wont. Except to say:

In pure filmmaking terms, TDKR soars above every other blockbuster this year, for the story it tells and in it's confidence as a film (that it is a film that will work better once you know who the new characters are and how they fit into the overall scheme of things) is Nolan's great achievement, Bruce Wayne's need to become Batman to survive, and ultimately his need to be free of Batman to actually live is masterfully realised, with an unambiguously happy ending that will only frustrate people who want to see heroes make the ultimate sacrifice, changing nothing on the process and don't really understand the story Nolan announced in BB, developed in TDK and brought to fruiting in TDKR: the creation of an everlasting symbol to inspire good, not merely the putting on of a costume to hunt down criminals and beat the crime out of them

How does Batman survive the explosion? It doesn't really matter, but he could have simply released the cable, dropping the bomb into the water, 'dampening' the explosion enough to make it possible (because his armoured military craft was flying hundred of miles per hour, away from the explosion)'The Bat' would not be blown up as onlookers assumed. Or, given the point of flagging up the auto pilot had been repaired before the first fight with Bane,, he could even have baled out before the bat headed out to sea (using the explosion he caused as cover.

Theatricality and deception, powerful agents, and all that...



< Message edited by jobloffski -- 11/12/2012 1:19:19 PM >


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 406
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 11/12/2012 12:01:51 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4394
Joined: 5/2/2012
Its easily one of my favorite films this year.
As I've said on a previous post all three films are very different,while this one is very true to Millers the Dark Knight Returns.There is also a few nods to Batman Year One in there to,if you can find them.



*I think the criticism from some of the Bomb moment is harsh in my opinion.
Yes people think back to the humorous Adam Wests caped crusaders memorable "Some days you just can't get rid of the bomb" quote,but in this film it was clearly alot different.Batman New what to do with the bomb,it wasn't as-if he was flying round the city thinking of the same Adam West quotations.The only comparison is the fact that two of them had to get rid of a bomb,that's it.

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 407
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 11/12/2012 12:58:21 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
I think its a direct reference to the Adam west sequence in which Batman had to get rid of a bomb, and after it blew up, Robin looked out over water thinking Batman was dead, when he wasn't. Flipping an previouslycomedic idea into a serious one is a perfectly legitimate approach to telling a new twist on an old tale (in fact, it's emblematic of Nolan's entire approach to the series, which WAS considered a joke before he got the gig). And even if Bale had growled 'some days you just can't rid of a bomb' it would have still worked just as well, and been in keeping with "So that's what that feels like".

People see the link they see in this instance. Pretty sure Nolan at least set out to create the link, or at least didn't shy away from it after noticing it was there. It was the very first thing that occurred to me, the second one being that Nolan was playing it slightly for gags anyway, because the soon too explode, highly unstable bomb hit the road and buildings before being whisked away to safety, and that obviously was something that had to be done deliberately by the fillmakers concerned.

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 11/12/2012 1:03:02 PM >


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 408
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 12/12/2012 3:38:50 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
I wish I had this movie on BluRay already, but nope... I'm under orders to not buy anything in my Amazon Wish List for the two months preceding Christmas, so I guess I'll have to wait for Santa to hopefully get a second viewing of this movie. My favourite of the year - in case people haven't noticed. Delivered on all of my expectations, and exceeded them, too.
My only gripes with it are Blake's story about how he figured out who Batman is (A smile? Really?), and that one shot of Batman still in the Bat just seconds before the bomb went off. Without that shot, the ending would have been perfect, but with it it just makes no sense.

A lot of people seem to lament Christopher Nolan's choice to give his series a grounding in reality that prevents Batman from being the "superhero". This is strange, because from day one, this approach seemed to me to be a lot more faithful to the comics than the movies that have outwardly tried to have a comic book tone. Maybe it's just that my favourite Batman stories are the grittier ones, with less fantastic plots/villains, but a movie series that focused on the reasons a real man without superpowers would do something like become Batman to fight criminals just seem to be more in line with my idea of Batman than a series of him fighting superpowered villains and pretty much being perfect at everything would be.

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 409
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 12/12/2012 8:10:42 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2351
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I wish I had this movie on BluRay already, but nope... I'm under orders to not buy anything in my Amazon Wish List for the two months preceding Christmas, so I guess I'll have to wait for Santa to hopefully get a second viewing of this movie. My favourite of the year - in case people haven't noticed. Delivered on all of my expectations, and exceeded them, too.
My only gripes with it are Blake's story about how he figured out who Batman is (A smile? Really?), and that one shot of Batman still in the Bat just seconds before the bomb went off. Without that shot, the ending would have been perfect, but with it it just makes no sense.

A lot of people seem to lament Christopher Nolan's choice to give his series a grounding in reality that prevents Batman from being the "superhero". This is strange, because from day one, this approach seemed to me to be a lot more faithful to the comics than the movies that have outwardly tried to have a comic book tone. Maybe it's just that my favourite Batman stories are the grittier ones, with less fantastic plots/villains, but a movie series that focused on the reasons a real man without superpowers would do something like become Batman to fight criminals just seem to be more in line with my idea of Batman than a series of him fighting superpowered villains and pretty much being perfect at everything would be.


That shot of Batman in the cockpit just seconds before the bomb detonates is in my opinion, him in the crafts ejection pod ( like the one Bond uses to escape the exploding chopper in Goldeneye).The autopilot sent the Bat out to sea but he had ejected beforehand.

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 410
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 12/12/2012 11:21:31 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3098
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I wish I had this movie on BluRay already, but nope... I'm under orders to not buy anything in my Amazon Wish List for the two months preceding Christmas, so I guess I'll have to wait for Santa to hopefully get a second viewing of this movie. My favourite of the year - in case people haven't noticed. Delivered on all of my expectations, and exceeded them, too.
My only gripes with it are Blake's story about how he figured out who Batman is (A smile? Really?), and that one shot of Batman still in the Bat just seconds before the bomb went off. Without that shot, the ending would have been perfect, but with it it just makes no sense.

A lot of people seem to lament Christopher Nolan's choice to give his series a grounding in reality that prevents Batman from being the "superhero". This is strange, because from day one, this approach seemed to me to be a lot more faithful to the comics than the movies that have outwardly tried to have a comic book tone. Maybe it's just that my favourite Batman stories are the grittier ones, with less fantastic plots/villains, but a movie series that focused on the reasons a real man without superpowers would do something like become Batman to fight criminals just seem to be more in line with my idea of Batman than a series of him fighting superpowered villains and pretty much being perfect at everything would be.


That shot of Batman in the cockpit just seconds before the bomb detonates is in my opinion, him in the crafts ejection pod ( like the one Bond uses to escape the exploding chopper in Goldeneye).The autopilot sent the Bat out to sea but he had ejected beforehand.


I think that is probably exactly what has happened. Batman is in a smaller flying vehicle, like a flying version of how the Batpod came out of the Tumbler. Heck he even looks down out the window. As if he's looking down at the Bat.


< Message edited by Vadersville -- 12/12/2012 11:22:08 PM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 411
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 14/12/2012 10:43:13 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4394
Joined: 5/2/2012
How come Banes motley crew didn't also use a Bat-Wing?
By my recollection there were two Bat-wings,one blown up and one still in the weapons division (both fixed concerning the auto-pilt situation).

Also,how do the prisoners in the cave/pit survive?

(in reply to Vadersville)
Post #: 412
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 14/12/2012 12:18:02 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
I thought there was only one. I only saw one of them, at least.

Also, I guess food gets thrown down there. It's hardly important.

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 413
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 14/12/2012 12:22:57 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4394
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I thought there was only one. I only saw one of them, at least.

Also, I guess food gets thrown down there. It's hardly important.


But if there was only one,surely it would of been blown-up?
Plus the Bat-wing in the last scene with Morgan Freeman was grey.


Yeah the prisoner food thingy is irrelevant to a degree,but one of interest.

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 414
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 14/12/2012 12:25:06 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I wish I had this movie on BluRay already, but nope... I'm under orders to not buy anything in my Amazon Wish List for the two months preceding Christmas, so I guess I'll have to wait for Santa to hopefully get a second viewing of this movie. My favourite of the year - in case people haven't noticed. Delivered on all of my expectations, and exceeded them, too.
My only gripes with it are Blake's story about how he figured out who Batman is (A smile? Really?), and that one shot of Batman still in the Bat just seconds before the bomb went off. Without that shot, the ending would have been perfect, but with it it just makes no sense.

A lot of people seem to lament Christopher Nolan's choice to give his series a grounding in reality that prevents Batman from being the "superhero". This is strange, because from day one, this approach seemed to me to be a lot more faithful to the comics than the movies that have outwardly tried to have a comic book tone. Maybe it's just that my favourite Batman stories are the grittier ones, with less fantastic plots/villains, but a movie series that focused on the reasons a real man without superpowers would do something like become Batman to fight criminals just seem to be more in line with my idea of Batman than a series of him fighting superpowered villains and pretty much being perfect at everything would be.


That shot of Batman in the cockpit just seconds before the bomb detonates is in my opinion, him in the crafts ejection pod ( like the one Bond uses to escape the exploding chopper in Goldeneye).The autopilot sent the Bat out to sea but he had ejected beforehand.


I think that is probably exactly what has happened. Batman is in a smaller flying vehicle, like a flying version of how the Batpod came out of the Tumbler. Heck he even looks down out the window. As if he's looking down at the Bat.



That's a bit Deus Ex Machina for my liking. The bit highlighted above was my main problem as well and while I've pretty much got over it and accepted that yes it was something that came out of the blue with no foreshadowing whatsoever that saved him. That seriously cheapens the ending for me.

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Post #: 415
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 14/12/2012 12:37:16 PM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 799
Joined: 2/9/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I thought there was only one. I only saw one of them, at least.

Also, I guess food gets thrown down there. It's hardly important.


But if there was only one,surely it would of been blown-up?
Plus the Bat-wing in the last scene with Morgan Freeman was grey.


Yeah the prisoner food thingy is irrelevant to a degree,but one of interest.


Isn't there a scene where we see John Blake organising the passing of food and water down to them (I seem to remember that). And I'm still convinced we only ever see one "Bat" - still waiting to see if I get the Blu ray as a present as I've been told I can't look or buy anything off my Amazon wishlist until after Christmas!!



< Message edited by Discodez -- 14/12/2012 12:38:29 PM >

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 416
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 14/12/2012 12:38:48 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
I think he was talking about the pit that Bruce is in, not the people trapped in the sewers. But yes, supplies are sent down to the sewers.

(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 417
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 14/12/2012 12:39:46 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4394
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I thought there was only one. I only saw one of them, at least.

Also, I guess food gets thrown down there. It's hardly important.


But if there was only one,surely it would of been blown-up?
Plus the Bat-wing in the last scene with Morgan Freeman was grey.


Yeah the prisoner food thingy is irrelevant to a degree,but one of interest.


Isn't there a scene where we see John Blake organising the passing of food and water down to them (I seem to remember that). And I'm still convinced we only ever see one "Bat" - still waiting to see if I get the Blu ray as a present as I've been told I can't look or buy anything off my Amazom wishlist until after Christmas!!




Your thinking of the Police situation.
I'm thinking of the prisoners in the pit (the one Bruce climbed out of).

(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 418
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 14/12/2012 12:41:14 PM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 799
Joined: 2/9/2010
Fair enough ..

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 419
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 14/12/2012 12:44:57 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's been told that their not allowed to buy this until after Christmas, by the way. Seriously... it's killing me!

(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 420
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