RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batman Silly?

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RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 1:43:45 PM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11357
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy
How do you think that conversation would go?
GORDON: I suspect there's an underground army
MAYOR EYELINER : What evidence do you have?
GORDON: Er, not much

MAYOR EYELINER: Ok Gordon, I'll go along with this because of your past record, I trust you. Who do you want to send down?

GORDON:

http://goo.gl/5ABBv

< Message edited by Hood_Man -- 11/8/2012 1:56:47 PM >

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1531

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 2:02:54 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy
How do you think that conversation would go?
GORDON: I suspect there's an underground army
MAYOR EYELINER : What evidence do you have?
GORDON: Er, not much

MAYOR EYELINER: Ok Gordon, I'll go along with this because of your past record, I trust you. Who do you want to send down?

GORDON:

http://goo.gl/5ABBv

(in reply to Hood_Man)

Post #: 1532

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 2:03:00 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

A duty of care to the welfare of the city? No cops in the city at all? Makes no sense!

You are contradicting yourself - if you suspect there's an army you don't send every cop in the city underground. If you know there's an army you don't send every single cop underground you call in the army or national guard.

Either way you don't send every single cop in the city underground

I was referring to the welfare of his cops. They are not soldiers. If he does suspect an underground terrorist army then sending a few units would probably result in the latter being wiped out, yes? Do you agree that "calling ALL units" is a real thing that happens, or at least a real thing that happens in movies, and that URGENT POSSIBLE TERRORIST THREATS warrant IMMEDIATE ACTION? How long do you think it takes to scramble the National Guard, assuming they'd even respond when there's no concrete proof of a threat?

If the city is virtually crime-free then what IMMEDIATE duty of care to Gotham's residents is not being met? It's not like Gordon assumed or should have assumed that the police would be down there for months!

And, again, Police Commisioners do not get to make the call to send in the Army. You might as well say Gordon should have got Superman to deal with it

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 1533

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 2:16:12 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

We're just repeating the same arguments over and over to try and get the last word in

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1534

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 2:25:41 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy
How do you think that conversation would go?
GORDON: I suspect there's an underground army
MAYOR EYELINER : What evidence do you have?
GORDON: Er, not much

MAYOR EYELINER: Ok Gordon, I'll go along with this because of your past record, I trust you. Who do you want to send down?

GORDON:

http://goo.gl/5ABBv

Amusing, but it was established in the movie that i) Gordon is probably going to be dumped by the Mayor ii) people don't take Gordon's fears about the sewers seriously (c.f. Modine overtly apologises for it). People are being wise after the event. Let's say a small unit would be sent down. What happens? They're wiped out. So what happens then - a "man down, calling all units" response. So the cops end up down there anyway but without the element of (they think) surprise. The movies all establish that Gordon has to do the best with what he's got an allocate responses accordingly. It cracks me up that people would view something like this as more plausible than what happens

GORDON: It could be a underground army and a terrorist threat, there's no time to waste, send half the units there!
MODINE: Half? The city's been virtually crime free for 8 years.
GORDON: Underground army or no underground army, nobody's jaywalking on my watch godammit!

In point of fact, wouldn't the army only be called in for threats the police CAN'T handle, i.e. not threats that they don't know if they can handle or not because they haven't devoted all their available resources to it?

(in reply to Hood_Man)

Post #: 1535

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 2:29:14 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

We're just repeating the same arguments over and over to try and get the last word in

You say that like it's a bad thing!

Hey, I'm hoping this thread will still be going when the Dark Knight Rises DVD/Blu-Ray comes out!!

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 1536

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 2:49:24 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

Let's ground this discussion in reality and remove TDKR completely from the argument :

Say the head of Scotland Yard gets information from tube workers that they've seen individuals operating in the underground network with weapons, could be terrorists, looks like there's a fair few of them but it's all a bit vague - no real accurate numbers.

At this point does he :
a) Inform the Mayor and David Cameron about what's happening and put a plan in place using S019 armed response and possibly even the army.
b) Call every single policemen in London up and send them into the Underground network.

Forget the film completely - which one is more logical. A or B - humour me here

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1537

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 3:21:06 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

Let's ground this discussion in reality and remove TDKR completely from the argument :

Say the head of Scotland Yard gets information from tube workers that they've seen individuals operating in the underground network with weapons, could be terrorists, looks like there's a fair few of them but it's all a bit vague - no real accurate numbers.

At this point does he :
a) Inform the Mayor and David Cameron about what's happening and put a plan in place using S019 armed response and possibly even the army.
b) Call every single policemen in London up and send them into the Underground network.

Forget the film completely - which one is more logical. A or B - humour me here

Firstly, your hypothetical scenario is not perfectly analagous. In your example, the evidence of the threat is only coming from tube workers (who may be misinformed, lying, high etc). Of course they wouldn't call in every unit based on some tube worker's say so, investigation would be required. Compare and contrast with DKR where its' the head of the police himself who has i) eye witness, personal evidence of the threat ii) the authority to send in units.

Secondly, you refer to informing the Mayor of London. That would be protocol certainly, and this is adressed in DKR when they say Mayor Eyeliner wouldn't want panic. Don't you think things like that happen all the time? Christ, it would be a bit hard to get hold of Boris Johnson when he spends so much time fannying about on zip-lines, ballin', appearing on TV etc

Aside from which your own example is about "informing" - do you now concede that it's still, broadly speaking, the Commisioner's call to actually make?

Thirdly, have you seen the fire and man power London has at its disposal, especially during the Olympics? They've mounted anti-aircraft missile launchers in residential areas dude! Gordon does not have a separate secret forces style army he can send in while the cops go stake out donut shops. He is making the best with what he has, which involves devoting man power in proportion to severity of threat. And he has hands on pointers towards the severity of the threat. He sent all units down because he could stop the threat. Since we're engaging in hypotheticals, let's say that a police commissioner DIDN'T use all the units of his disposal and *for that reason* failed to stop a mass terrorist attack. Don't you think the first question that would be asked in the subsequent enquiry would be "why did the commissioner not use ALL of his available resources when he both suspected the severity of the threat and ii) had, lacking the authority to send in the army, special secret units etc, no other card to play?

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 1538

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 3:25:49 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

Ok so say in London they had eyewitness personal evidence of the threat - would you choose A or B? And what's the Olympics got to do with it

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1539

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 3:31:51 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

Ok so say in London they had eyewitness personal evidence of the threat - would you choose A or B? And what's the Olympics got to do with it

A false dichotomy is exactly that alas. Did you learn nothing from DK?

First hand personal experience by the head of London's police would certainly warrant a serious reponse.

And I mentioned the Olympics because, to use your example, London has got more special forces, machine gun wielding police,Royal marines, black ops, etc dudes that it knows what to do with, so of course they wouldn't need to call on regular units in the same way as in gotham. Contrast with Gordon's situation, who has no separate army etc HE can send INSTEAD of the regular units. It's the regular units or nothing, and "nothing" isn't exactly an acceptable response to the threat

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 1540

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 3:39:13 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

Strangely you haven't answered the question about London though - would it be a logical move to send every single cop underground? Forget the film - were talking about London

And as for Gotham - it's clearly a major City in America, a country which has an enormous army and a National Guard. You telling me Gordon is living on an island with zero ability to escalate the matter and his only recourse is to send them all down to the last man underground?

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1541

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 3:57:21 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

Strangely you haven't answered the question about London though - would it be a logical move to send every single cop underground? Forget the film - were talking about London

And as for Gotham - it's clearly a major City in America, a country which has an enormous army and a National Guard. You telling me Gordon is living on an island with zero ability to escalate the matter and his only recourse is to send them all down to the last man underground?

I've answered the question. London has all the extra units that Gordon does not have, right? So why would they not use them, agreed?

Again, Gordon DOES NOT GET TO MAKE THE CALL TO SEND IN THE ARMY AND THE NATIONAL GUARD!!! He could escalate the matter by informing Mayor Eyeliner, he knows that Mayor Eyeliner wouldn't do anything without proof. Seriously, how often do you think the National Guard gets called out? You'd agree that the army would not be called in unless it's clear that the police can't handle the problem, correct? How do you imagine that conversation going?

GENERAL: So have you exhausted your state resources in attempting to neutralise the threat?
MAYOR EYELASHER: Er, no, most of the force is still devoted elsewhere for regular duties,but we sent a couple of units down the sewer and haven't heard from them
GENERAL: What is your major malfunction!? The National Guard is for genuine emergencies that the police have demonstrably been unable to handle. Stop wasting my time, Mayor Eyeliner

!!
(hangs up phone)

etc. Mayor Eyeliners COULD declare a State of Emergency, as would happen after an earthquake or the like, but you'd agree that its' certainly in keeping with Gordon's character that he'd use what resources he has to PREVENT an event that COULD lead to a State of Emergency that would warrant the Army/National Guard? I'm sure Gordon would love to just send the army in when he wanted, but that''s not things work.

Aside from which, we see the bridges being blown. You'd agree that there's no point in the continuity shown where Mayor Eyelashes could have definitively reported information to get the National Guard send in in time?

Bane's aware of escalation, that's why he blows the bridges. And we see the general monitoring the threat as soon as they're made aware of it, which is what would happen.

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 1542

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 4:12:04 PM

Dirk Miggler

Posts: 836
Joined: 14/1/2009

And it goes on and on and on ! You both know your never gonna change eithers minds about this don't you ?

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1543

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 4:19:34 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

So basically you're saying that in London they wouldn't have sent every single cop underground

You're argument for Gotham is that Gordon did not have access to military/ national guard, therefore he was forced to send all the cops underground.

But you also admit Gordon never escalated the matter - so therefore he never really knew the outcome if he did bother to take it further. You are completely speculating about how higher powers would react, in reality you have no idea. Logicially they would react in some way and provide some assistance, but Nolan could not allow that to happen because if the army piled in from the off it's the end of Bane before the story even kicks off. So he had to write in the ridiculous plot turn we've been discussing ad nauseam

All in all Gordon is guilty of criminal incompetence - he saw the threat as big enough to engage his entire force leaving his city completely unpoliced, but not big enough to inform the government. Nolan has hung Commissioner Gordon out to dry - which is a shame coz he's a great character.

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1544

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 4:34:13 PM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11357
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

And it goes on and on and on ! You both know your never gonna change eithers minds about this don't you ?

I know Fluke will appreciate this one, it's the Isner Mahut of film debates

(in reply to Dirk Miggler)

Post #: 1545

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 4:38:10 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

And it goes on and on and on ! You both know your never gonna change eithers minds about this don't you ?

I know Fluke will appreciate this one, it's the Isner Mahut of film debates

- nice work

What side of the argument do you guys come down on - no one else is really chipping in, probably because it doesn't actually warrant the amount of time we're putting into it

(in reply to Hood_Man)

Post #: 1546

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 4:55:07 PM

Dirk Miggler

Posts: 836
Joined: 14/1/2009

I don't really find it an issue, although I do get what your saying. For me he percieved Bane to be a big enough threat to warrant that much man power but obviously not to the point where he would bring in the Army/national gaurd, at this point you could argue Bane doesn't have an army, that comes later (Blackgate) so all the cops should be enough to bring them in no fuss. To be honest I hate and try my best not to pick into faults on that sort of level, this is a "film" at the end of the day no matter how "grounded" in reality it is. If Gordan or the Mayor or whoever called in the national gaurd whenever shit hit the fan then what would be the point of Batman and even this film.

So yes I get your point but I think the movie explains the situation well enough for it not to be an issue IMHO.

< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 11/8/2012 5:07:08 PM >

(in reply to Dirk Miggler)

Post #: 1547

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:12:21 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

So basically you're saying that in London they wouldn't have sent every single cop underground

You're argument for Gotham is that Gordon did not have access to military/ national guard, therefore he was forced to send all the cops underground.

But you also admit Gordon never escalated the matter - so therefore he never really knew the outcome if he did bother to take it further. You are completely speculating about how higher powers would react, in reality you have no idea. Logicially they would react in some way and provide some assistance, but Nolan could not allow that to happen because if the army piled in from the off it's the end of Bane before the story even kicks off. So he had to write in the ridiculous plot turn we've been discussing ad nauseam

All in all Gordon is guilty of criminal incompetence - he saw the threat as big enough to engage his entire force leaving his city completely unpoliced, but not big enough to inform the government. Nolan has hung Commissioner Gordon out to dry - which is a shame coz he's a great character.

Would London need to? No. Does Gordon have London style special forces, royal marines etc etc etc? No.

We're both speculating, The difference is, I'm doing so based on on what we're actually shown and what happens in reality, you're doing so from wackadoo, imperfect (to say the least) analogies about London. Again: POLICE COMMISIONERS DO NOT GET TO SEND IN THE ARMY. Seriously dude, if they did, then Gotham would have (pre Dent Act) more soldiers running about than it has mentally ill people in silly outfits

(hmm, maybe London is a good analogy for Gotham afterall!)

And if you think that my saying that police commisioners don't get to send in the army is mere speculation then what factual basis do YOU have for assuming Gordon can "send in the army"? Do you want to invoke how things would play out in reality in a "major American city" or not. Information on the US legislation relating to States of Emergency, who gets to invoke them and what likely responses would be is easily available.

And, again, we have information on Mayor Eyeliner's character, so it's not shooting-in-the-dark style speculation to note that Gordon's characterisation of the Mayor's likely response to the sewer exercise is indeed accurate.

And again, you ignored the question about WHEN EXACTLY he should have informed the Government. If he had sent down a few units to investigate then the bridges would have been blown anyway, agreed? As such the national guard couldn't get anyway, correct? Even if Gordon HAD the authority to send in the army (he doesn't) and even IF they would have been sent in without proof (they wouldn't) then they wouldn't have been able to get across anyway, would they?

And again with the 'inform the Government'. A chain of command is exactly that. At least you're no longer invoking "The White House" ("uh, Mr President, you've got a policeman from Gotham City on line one, he says it's urgent"

)

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 1548

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:15:21 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

We're just repeating the same arguments over and over to try and get the last word in

That's what online fandom's all about.

(That last one's me, BTW.)

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 11/8/2012 5:18:16 PM >

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 1549

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:16:07 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker
but Nolan could not allow that to happen because if the army piled in from the off it's the end of Bane before the story even kicks off.

The external bridges are blown around about the same time the police are trapped. When do you propose Gordon should have made the call to sent in the army (which he wouldn't get to do anyway, but for the sake of argument) anyway? Mobilising the National Guard is not like ordering pizza

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 1550

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:18:53 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

But you also admit Gordon never escalated the matter - so therefore he never really knew the outcome if he did bother to take it further. .

Actually, a police commisioner of a major american city (especially one with Gordon's experience of civic mayhem) would know about chain of command, States of Emergency (especially post 9/11), the limits of his power, and so on.

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 1551

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:20:31 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

We're just repeating the same arguments over and over to try and get the last word in

That's what online fandom's all about.

(That last one's me, BTW.)

Is the red smiley angry because the smiley to the left is shooting him in the bum? Understandable!

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 1552

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:21:00 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

And it goes on and on and on ! You both know your never gonna change eithers minds about this don't you ?

Oh, it's worse than that I'm afraid. It's already spread to other parts of the forum...

(in reply to Dirk Miggler)

Post #: 1553

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:22:44 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

We're just repeating the same arguments over and over to try and get the last word in

That's what online fandom's all about.

(That last one's me, BTW.)

Is the red smiley angry because the smiley to the left is shooting him in the bum? Understandable!

Shooting himself in the foot, more like. Um... Are you guys always like this with every film you see? If so, it must get pretty exhausting? For everybody...

IT'S. ONLY. A. MOVIE!

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 11/8/2012 5:24:45 PM >

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1554

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:23:21 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

And it goes on and on and on !

just a small town girl, living in a lonely world..

(in reply to Dirk Miggler)

Post #: 1555

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:24:27 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

We're just repeating the same arguments over and over to try and get the last word in

That's what online fandom's all about.

(That last one's me, BTW.)

Is the red smiley angry because the smiley to the left is shooting him in the bum? Understandable!

Shooting himself in the foot, more like. Um... Are you guys always like this with every film you see? If so, it must get pretty exhausting? For everybody...

This is the only Empire movie thread I've commented on since Tree of Life. Now *there's* a movie with "plot holes"!

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 1556

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:27:38 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

And dinosaurs - All That Godzilla Allows!

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 11/8/2012 5:28:33 PM >

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1557

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:32:23 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

And dinosaurs - All That Godzilla Allows!

Exactly! Actually I suppose both Malick and Nolan share a healthy aversion to CGI and predilection for old school moviemaking. I really loved Tree of Life, for the record. They should get Malick to do the Batman reboot!

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 1558

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:34:19 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

We're just repeating the same arguments over and over to try and get the last word in

That's what online fandom's all about.

(That last one's me, BTW.)

Is the red smiley angry because the smiley to the left is shooting him in the bum? Understandable!

Shooting himself in the foot, more like. Um... Are you guys always like this with every film you see? If so, it must get pretty exhausting? For everybody...

IT'S. ONLY. A. MOVIE!

Hey, if you think this is bad, check out the Batman v Bane (

) style, 549 message strong Jim Gordon's Dry-Cleaning/DKR plot holes thread http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/07/27/dark-knight-rises-sound-fury-theme-story-review-batman-plot-holes/

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 1559

RE: Are Realistic Super-Heroes an Oxymoron aka: Is Batm... - 11/8/2012 5:34:56 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

We're just repeating the same arguments over and over to try and get the last word in

That's what online fandom's all about.

(That last one's me, BTW.)

Is the red smiley angry because the smiley to the left is shooting him in the bum? Understandable!

Shooting himself in the foot, more like. Um... Are you guys always like this with every film you see? If so, it must get pretty exhausting? For everybody...

IT'S. ONLY. A. MOVIE!