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RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:34:25 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18905
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

Many of the "problems" are people saying we're not told/shown x. I'm asking whether this is necessarily a flaw, given the type of movie Nolan is making.

Well the day for night thing is something of an issue and one which got raised quite a lot for X Men 3. But because Nolan is a better director than Ratner we try and make excuses, rather than just accept that these things happen.

But it is twilight when the stock exchange scene starts - is it even a proper a continuity error? And so too with the police and their beards. We see a pallet of supplies; if people are going to be ludicrously pedantic then shouldn't they also note that the one pallet of supplies isn't enough to keep 3,000 cops alive for five months? And so on.

It's not twilight at all. It is day time. Bright honest to goodness daytime and in one cut mid chase it becomes night time. X Men 3 at least tried to show the day changing. TDKR didn't go that far.

I've seen the move three times, and I maintain that we get an aeriel shot that suggests twilight. But obviously, for things like this, there's no legal way to provide screen shots, so I don't mind dropping the point.

Yes, snap - I have seen it three times as well. And it goes from daylight to pitch black in a shot. It's fine - these things happen.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1291

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:35:29 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

jjj

(in reply to elab49)

Post #: 1292

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:41:24 PM

Deviation

Posts: 26908
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

I never got why Bane kept the cops alive. Why?

It's a social revolution. The prisoners become free men, the oppresive guardians of freedom become prisoners. Remember that, for all the audience knows of Bane's ultimately evil scheme, he's coming as a liberator (which is why the reading of the speech, Declaration of Independence, Robbispierre etc scheme is so good). We're shown the 99% marching, glad that the storm that Selina alluded to has come. That wouldn't have happened if Bane had just flat out murdered every cop in the city.

But who would care? They were still going to Hiroshima the city out of existence Nobody saw the cops for five months. We never even got a scene about their relatives. Nobody knew of their condition and they weren't afraid of killing cops still outside. It's just stupid, and stupid that lead to Bane's defeat.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1293

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:42:08 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I think there are 'issues' raised that seem easily addressed in context and don't jar with the world/scenario created. They're maybe the easy ones though.

I think the core idea with the cutting off of Gotham is a problem though. From Neeson's speech in the first film about leaving the city to find the lowest depths itself before destruction and Bane's repetition with the whole go mad thing. And then - nothing. Did they all sit around and learn how to knit for a few months?

Serious question: what would you do in that circumstance? Stay in and try and stay out of trouble? It's obvious that's indeed what a lot of people in the movie do. I know people don't always like the DKR's political subtext, but I thought the scenes of shops without much food and people queing outside like in Communist Russia was a good touch.

If a bit random given it just makes you think about the logistics of supplies.

And it isn't really what I'd do - it's what the objective was, the descent to hell and chaos and then the cleansing, just like daddy wanted. And that was - um, nowhere. Instead, after some not entirely convincing ransacking, crooks just did what crooks did - not exactly a revolution.

As for logics of supplies, Bane has a nuclear bomb to blackmail the Government with. He could request a 1000 black swans, a gold plated helicopter and some tap-dancing monkeys and he'd probably get it.

But the 'revolution' has to be natural. Bane has a lot of goons, but if 12 million people viewed him as a tyrant and rose up there could be problems. Remember also that Bane wants to poison the soul of Gotham with hope. A situation that was immediate hell on earth for everyone would not accomplish that.

(in reply to elab49)

Post #: 1294

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:45:14 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

I never got why Bane kept the cops alive. Why?

It's a social revolution. The prisoners become free men, the oppresive guardians of freedom become prisoners. Remember that, for all the audience knows of Bane's ultimately evil scheme, he's coming as a liberator (which is why the reading of the speech, Declaration of Independence, Robbispierre etc scheme is so good). We're shown the 99% marching, glad that the storm that Selina alluded to has come. That wouldn't have happened if Bane had just flat out murdered every cop in the city.

But who would care? They were still going to Hiroshima the city out of existence Nobody saw the cops for five months. We never even got a scene about their relatives. Nobody knew of their condition and they weren't afraid of killing cops still outside. It's just stupid, and stupid that lead to Bane's defeat.

Who would care? WE THE OMNIPOTENT AUDIENCE know that the city's blowing up in five months anyway, the people of Gotham do not. You don't think that people might question the 'revolution' if every cop was killed, and that, in a city of 12 million people, that isn't a chance Bane could take. Aside from which, he's a sadist. Bane keeping the police underground for five months before killing everyone anyway is, like him putting Batman in the pit to torture his spirit, the kind of thing he would do. "Your punishment must be more severe" and all that..

(in reply to Deviation)

Post #: 1295

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:45:33 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18905
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

Where are these 12 million then? Where is there any evidence of the normal man on the street rising up against the city? It isn't there. We are shown Bane and his goons, along with the crimminals he released. That is all who is there for the final fight.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1296

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:46:52 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
Scott Pilgrim vs Expendables death match

Now that's a movie I'd like to see!

(in reply to elab49)

Post #: 1297

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:48:08 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18905
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

I never got why Bane kept the cops alive. Why?

It's a social revolution. The prisoners become free men, the oppresive guardians of freedom become prisoners. Remember that, for all the audience knows of Bane's ultimately evil scheme, he's coming as a liberator (which is why the reading of the speech, Declaration of Independence, Robbispierre etc scheme is so good). We're shown the 99% marching, glad that the storm that Selina alluded to has come. That wouldn't have happened if Bane had just flat out murdered every cop in the city.

But who would care? They were still going to Hiroshima the city out of existence Nobody saw the cops for five months. We never even got a scene about their relatives. Nobody knew of their condition and they weren't afraid of killing cops still outside. It's just stupid, and stupid that lead to Bane's defeat.

Who would care? WE THE OMNIPOTENT AUDIENCE know that the city's blowing up in five months anyway, the people of Gotham do not. You don't think that people might question the 'revolution' if every cop was killed, and that, in a city of 12 million people, that isn't a chance Bane could take. Aside from which, he's a sadist. Bane keeping the police underground for five months before killing everyone anyway is, like him putting Batman in the pit to torture his spirit, the kind of thing he would do. "Your punishment must be more severe" and all that..

So why do they openly kill cops and you know...hang military people above the city? Bane is clearly not worried about being seen to kill these people, what does a bunch of cops trapped under the ground matter? Wouldn't they be persumed to be dead anyway?

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1298

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:48:51 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Where are these 12 million then? Where is there any evidence of the normal man on the street rising up against the city? It isn't there. We are shown Bane and his goons, along with the crimminals he released. That is all who is there for the final fight.

I'd imagine they're at home. That's where I'd be.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)

Post #: 1299

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:49:20 PM

Deviation

Posts: 26908
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

But there was nothing close to natural about the revolution. It was letting dangerous people known to be dangerous out. It was putting people who were doing very fine being guardians of the city underground and jack shit knows what happens to them for five months. It's was the Alice in Wonderland of revolutions with even a crazy court within it.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1300

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:50:47 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

but again - I realise that you don't think we get as much of a sense of an epic city as in DK and Batman Begins. Fair dos.

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1301

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:50:55 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18905
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Where are these 12 million then? Where is there any evidence of the normal man on the street rising up against the city? It isn't there. We are shown Bane and his goons, along with the crimminals he released. That is all who is there for the final fight.

I'd imagine they're at home. That's where I'd be.

So it is a revoltuion where nobody comes out and revolts? So what does that make it? A criminal takeover of the city, which is what it is. Bane doesn't actually believe the stuff he is saying, and people within the city don't buy it either.

If you want a comparison - Rickman in Die Hard. Says one thing to the cops outside and does a different thing inside in front of everyone else.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1302

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:52:39 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

But there was nothing close to natural about the revolution. It was letting dangerous people known to be dangerous out. It was putting people who were doing very fine being guardians of the city underground and jack shit knows what happens to them for five months. It's was the Alice in Wonderland of revolutions with even a crazy court within it.

If you don't think that kangaroo courts like that would happen in the real world, you have a cheerier view of human nature than me. The people in blackgate where denied parole. Even idealistic cop John Blake expresses doubts about the fairness of the Dent Act. We're shown Selina being put in blackgate for a reason, so we know that the people being realised aren't all drooling Arkham style super serial killer types.

(in reply to Deviation)

Post #: 1303

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:54:25 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

And remember the courts exist because ''crime'' is still not being tolerated (c.f. the scene with Selina and the kid with the apple).

(in reply to Deviation)

Post #: 1304

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:55:18 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I think there are 'issues' raised that seem easily addressed in context and don't jar with the world/scenario created. They're maybe the easy ones though.

I think the core idea with the cutting off of Gotham is a problem though. From Neeson's speech in the first film about leaving the city to find the lowest depths itself before destruction and Bane's repetition with the whole go mad thing. And then - nothing. Did they all sit around and learn how to knit for a few months?

But of course. None of it adds up. It's a movie and these things seldom do - Bond villain plots, say. They all require a willing suspension of disbelief to some degree or another. It's just some of us are more willing to suspend our disbelief than others, it seems.

I read a thing on IMDb where some guy went on and on very authoritatively about CIA procedure and how at the start a real CIA guy wouldn't do this and wouldn't do that and blah, blah, blah... To which my automatic response was - that'll be the same CIA that didn't see 9/11 coming. I didn't say that to him of course. Like I said, I actually go out of my way to avoid getting into slanging matches with these people.

Besides, the first and last time I confronted an irate Yank online he came out with the usual "Pinko, Limey fag - you'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for us, etc" tirade. (I didn't think people actually resorted to cliches like that.) But that was OK. I told him if it wasn't for the French, he'd still be British. Besides, I'm Scottish. That didn't go down at all well. So I told him that I thanks to my fibre-free diet of haggis and deep fried Mars bars I could not give a shit and bid him adieu. And that was on the Guardian forums of all places!

That's a true story.

(I'm a bit of a plot hole connoisseur, actually. I've already mentioned Blade Runner. But Return of the Jedi has some belters too. Why is the "armed and fully operational" second Death Star unable to generate its own shields? If it was all a trap, why give the rebels the location of the real shield generator in the first place? Why not pack them off to a dummy shield generator? And why doesn't the Empire ever put protective barriers round any of those bottomless chasms it has dotted all over the place? Health and safety clearly isn't an issue when you're evil. Especially when, as with The Dark Knight Rises, a lot of such plot "holes" exist just so the good guys can win in the end, of course. If Bane had killed all those cops - as surely he would have, in reality, like - then Batman would have been stuffed, basically. Willing suspension of disbelief, you see? I also like to think I've come up with one of the best plot holes - why didn't Gordon just pin Harvey Dent's crimes on The Joker? It's not like anyone would believe his denials. Especially when ultimately he was responsible for Dent's crimes. Still a bloody good film, though! Which would have been stuffed frankly had Gordon done the obvious thing. Heh.)

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 8/8/2012 12:07:17 AM >

(in reply to elab49)

Post #: 1305

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 7/8/2012 11:57:14 PM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

I never got why Bane kept the cops alive. Why?

It's a social revolution. The prisoners become free men, the oppresive guardians of freedom become prisoners. Remember that, for all the audience knows of Bane's ultimately evil scheme, he's coming as a liberator (which is why the reading of the speech, Declaration of Independence, Robbispierre etc scheme is so good). We're shown the 99% marching, glad that the storm that Selina alluded to has come. That wouldn't have happened if Bane had just flat out murdered every cop in the city.

But who would care? They were still going to Hiroshima the city out of existence Nobody saw the cops for five months. We never even got a scene about their relatives. Nobody knew of their condition and they weren't afraid of killing cops still outside. It's just stupid, and stupid that lead to Bane's defeat.

Who would care? WE THE OMNIPOTENT AUDIENCE know that the city's blowing up in five months anyway, the people of Gotham do not. You don't think that people might question the 'revolution' if every cop was killed, and that, in a city of 12 million people, that isn't a chance Bane could take. Aside from which, he's a sadist. Bane keeping the police underground for five months before killing everyone anyway is, like him putting Batman in the pit to torture his spirit, the kind of thing he would do. "Your punishment must be more severe" and all that..

So why do they openly kill cops and you know...hang military people above the city? Bane is clearly not worried about being seen to kill these people, what does a bunch of cops trapped under the ground matter? Wouldn't they be persumed to be dead anyway?

Bane says that if outsiders interfere the bomb will go off. The special forces guys are outsiders. It's a warning.

Bane says overtly that the police will be given supplies - not killing them is consistent with the character's sadism (the plan, remember, is "keep them underground for five months while the city they guarded decends into chaos, before nuking everyone anyway")

(in reply to Rgirvan44)

Post #: 1306

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:01:12 AM

Deviation

Posts: 26908
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

But there was nothing close to natural about the revolution. It was letting dangerous people known to be dangerous out. It was putting people who were doing very fine being guardians of the city underground and jack shit knows what happens to them for five months. It's was the Alice in Wonderland of revolutions with even a crazy court within it.

If you don't think that kangaroo courts like that would happen in the real world, you have a cheerier view of human nature than me. The people in blackgate where denied parole. Even idealistic cop John Blake expresses doubts about the fairness of the Dent Act. We're shown Selina being put in blackgate for a reason, so we know that the people being realised aren't all drooling Arkham style super serial killer types.

Only revolutions don't tend to work that way (OH HEY, let's just release all the violent thugs in our prisons, EQUALITY!!!) and the whole "Death...by exile" driven by a Mad Hatter thing is so outlandish that it can only happen in Alice in Wonderland. It was goofy and insane, and wonderfully so. Also, there was very little questioning of the Dent Act, almost an afterthought.

Also, Selina was extemely dangerous. She was a known criminal who proved many times to be capable of killing.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1307

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:01:52 AM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

I read a thing on IMDb where some guy went on and on about CIA procedure and how at the start a real CIA guy wouldn't do this and wouldn't do that and blah, blah, blah... To which my automatic response was - that'll be the same CIA that didn't see 9/11 coming. I didn't say that to him of course. Like I said, I actually go out of my way to avoid getting into slanging matches with these people.

I'd ask if a real CIA operative wouldn't have better things to do than argue about Batman movies on the internet

Yeah, and we all know that the real CIA always do everything by the book, and never do anything dodgy, which is why we don't have rendition flights and government-mandated tor..er, wait a minute

If people thought it was implausible, then fair enough, but I have to laugh at people who claim to be experts on very high and secretive areas of information expounding on the right way to do things (isn't artistic license exactly that, anyway?). One of the points on that unhinged 99 points list is the guy talking about how turning the reactor into a bomb is too speedy and not realistic. Now, I don't know for sure that the author is NOT an expert on nuclear physics and neutron bombs, but....

< Message edited by cerebusboy -- 8/8/2012 12:21:42 AM >

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 1308

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:02:03 AM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

So the more posts, the madder the thread? Cheers. Somebody said the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was a biggie earlier. I'll maybe check that one out first. Wish me luck - I'm going outside, I may be some time... ("Hates. Why did it have to be hates...?")

No, come on dude, stay here and let's make it the biggest thread ever! If people get tired of discussing the movie, we can always just talk about Marion Cotillard's boobs!

I'm there.

(I wish!)

EDIT: Er... Don't tell me missus!

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1309

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:03:56 AM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

O/T

Fortunately posters on the Dr Who thread in Small Screen do all the hard work looking for info so the rest of us don't have to. And are currently dischuffed at supposedly big midnight announcements it seems

Do you blame me?

Actually, mere hours before the announcement I was saying to people "I'm looking forward to seeing how grotesquely misused the word 'iconic' is in this case".

_____________________________

Invisible Text for SPOILERS: "color=#F1F1F1" Spoiler text "/color" , then change the quotation marks to square brackets.

(in reply to elab49)

Post #: 1310

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:05:47 AM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

But there was nothing close to natural about the revolution. It was letting dangerous people known to be dangerous out. It was putting people who were doing very fine being guardians of the city underground and jack shit knows what happens to them for five months. It's was the Alice in Wonderland of revolutions with even a crazy court within it.

If you don't think that kangaroo courts like that would happen in the real world, you have a cheerier view of human nature than me. The people in blackgate where denied parole. Even idealistic cop John Blake expresses doubts about the fairness of the Dent Act. We're shown Selina being put in blackgate for a reason, so we know that the people being realised aren't all drooling Arkham style super serial killer types.

Only revolutions don't tend to work that way (OH HEY, let's just release all the violent thugs in our prisons, EQUALITY!!!) and the whole "Death...by exile" driven by a Mad Hatter thing is so outlandish that it can only happen in Alice in Wonderland. It was goofy and insane, and wonderfully so. Also, there was very little questioning of the Dent Act, almost an afterthought.

Also, Selina was extemely dangerous. She was a known criminal who proved many times to be capable of killing.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about. If it's merely civil unrest that appears similar to a 'revolution' then that will do for Bane's five month purposes. Aside from which I think you could argue that external attacks on certain fundamental aspects of a society (e.g. currency) can result in 'revolutionary' changes and/or chaos even if they're not a revolution in the vox populi sense.

We're told about Selina's rapsheet, mostly thefts, and the kills we're actually shown (as in the bar scene) are surely closer to self-defence/justifiable homicide that overt murders.

(in reply to Deviation)

Post #: 1311

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:06:07 AM

Deviation

Posts: 26908
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

Bane says that if outsiders interfere the bomb will go off. The special forces guys are outsiders. It's a warning.

Which shows that the man takes no chances whatsoever, hence, killing your biggest problem while underground should have been the first thought, even while pretending that they are still alive.

quote:

Bane says overtly that the police will be given supplies - not killing them is consistent with the character's sadism (the plan, remember, is "keep them underground for five months while the city they guarded decends into chaos, before nuking everyone anyway")

It's also consistent with stupid. Bane killed anyone who proved a threat or could have been one, alongside with killing of those who failed. Instead, he leaves a group of people who were always very capable of biting back alive. Sure he left Wayne alive, but Wayne had zero chances to go away. The cops were right under him. It's a stupid train of thought that he adopted.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1312

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:07:37 AM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

So the more posts, the madder the thread? Cheers. Somebody said the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was a biggie earlier. I'll maybe check that one out first. Wish me luck - I'm going outside, I may be some time... ("Hates. Why did it have to be hates...?")

No, come on dude, stay here and let's make it the biggest thread ever! If people get tired of discussing the movie, we can always just talk about Marion Cotillard's boobs!

I'm there.

(I wish!)

EDIT: Er... Don't tell me missus!

I can't believe that Selina and Marion didn't hook up in DKR. Now that's a "plot hole"!

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 1313

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:11:00 AM

Deviation

Posts: 26908
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

I'm not sure what we're arguing about. If it's merely civil unrest that appears similar to a 'revolution' then that will do for Bane's five month purposes. Aside from which I think you could argue that external attacks on certain fundamental aspects of a society (e.g. currency) can result in 'revolutionary' changes and/or chaos even if they're not a revolution in the vox populi sense.

The economic aspects weren't even that fundamental to the plot, let alone the start of the "revolution". It's never close to being convincing as a revolution, which is what Bane wanted people to convince. Also, I didn't have much of a problem with the five months thing, with this line, I realized how contrived it is.

quote:

We're told about Selina's rapsheet, mostly thefts, and the kills we're actually shown (as in the bar scene) are surely closer to self-defence/justifiable homicide that overt murders.

Yeah, but they still show how dangerous she is and the thefts were enough to make somebody as discreet as her noticed. Selina was still a lethal thief.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1314

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:12:32 AM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

O/T

Fortunately posters on the Dr Who thread in Small Screen do all the hard work looking for info so the rest of us don't have to. And are currently dischuffed at supposedly big midnight announcements it seems

Do you blame me? Actually, mere hours before the announcement I was saying to people "I'm looking forward to seeing how grotesquely misused the word 'iconic' is in this case".

Way, waaaaaaay

but Withnail is quite iconic. If by "iconic" you mean "quoted by lots of students over the years" and "not really known for anything else." Tom Baker's iconic for pretty much that reason too, is he not? As is, it must be said, Christian Bale!

EDIT: Well, that and Patrick Bat(e)man. And the kid in Empire of the Sun. Which no-one went to see. And is underrated, BTW.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 8/8/2012 12:16:01 AM >

(in reply to Darth Marenghi)

Post #: 1315

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:16:40 AM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

Bane says that if outsiders interfere the bomb will go off. The special forces guys are outsiders. It's a warning.

Which shows that the man takes no chances whatsoever, hence, killing your biggest problem while underground should have been the first thought, even while pretending that they are still alive.

Not really. If the impetus was just on taking no chances he'd have nuked Gotham without the five month build up. And killing the special forces guys is not about not taking chances, it's about sending a message.

quote:

Bane says overtly that the police will be given supplies - not killing them is consistent with the character's sadism (the plan, remember, is "keep them underground for five months while the city they guarded decends into chaos, before nuking everyone anyway")

quote:

It's also consistent with stupid. Bane killed anyone who proved a threat or could have been one, alongside with killing of those who failed. Instead, he leaves a group of people who were always very capable of biting back alive. Sure he left Wayne alive, but Wayne had zero chances to go away. The cops were right under him. It's a stupid train of thought that he adopted.

Why should Bane have known the cops are capable of biting back if he's the one keeping them alive? At any time, say if they tried to escape, he could kill them all. And Bane didn't kill Fox, nor Selina. I certainly don't mind conceding that Bane was prone to hubris (wouldn't you be if you'd just beaten Batman without breaking sweat?) But,as with Bruce's escaping, that doesn't make his plans stupid. Bane lacks the audience's omnipotent knowledge.

(in reply to Deviation)

Post #: 1316

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:24:51 AM

Deviation

Posts: 26908
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

Not really. If the impetus was just on taking no chances he'd have nuked Gotham without the five month build up. And killing the special forces guys is not about not taking chances, it's about sending a message.

And for the sake of sending a message, he does something as silly as leave the cops alive. Jesus, this is why I couldn't love this film when it walks with thoughts like this.

quote:

Why should Bane have known the cops are capable of biting back if he's the one keeping them alive? At any time, say if they tried to escape, he could kill them all. And Bane didn't kill Fox, nor Selina. I certainly don't mind conceding that Bane was prone to hubris (wouldn't you be if you'd just beaten Batman without breaking sweat?) But,as with Bruce's escaping, that doesn't make his plans stupid. Bane lacks the audience's omnipotent knowledge.

Of course he didn't kill Fox and Selina. Fox was "helping" him and Selina had helped him trap Batman. It was part of Selina's plan to remain alive. Also, did Bane ever tell the outside world that he left the cops alive? It's still leaving them alive for silly reasons which prove really convenient to his defeat. Our most threatening villian people, a fool who has the logic of some of the weakest Bond villians.

And actually, Bruce had little chance to escape, him escaping was also quite silly, but I don't really care for movie biology, so there, and criticising that would really be nitpicking.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 8/8/2012 12:26:12 AM >

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to cerebusboy)

Post #: 1317

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:51:52 AM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

Look, all these things are worked out ass-backwards for the sake of the story the writers and director want to tell. It takes three months for the reactor core to decay then explode cos it gives Batman the window he requires to recover. Bane doesn't kill the cops cos Batman would be stuffed at the end without them - all that "to give the people false hope" stuff, while cleverly worked out, is still just window dressing to disguise a necessary plot development essential to the predetermined outcome the filmmakers want - as with most movies like this, the good guy winning in the end.

(You ever notice how Bond always just happens to be issued with just the right gadgets he'll need later? 007 never goes: "Aw, shite! I wish I still that exploding dildo thing from the last film!" Also he's never issued with a gadget he doesn't use. Funny that.)

It's all smoke and mirrors and misdirection, it's just Nolan is better at it than most. Indeed, it's been observed that part of the attraction for Nolan of The Prestige was that all that stuff about pledges and turns, etc was a sly metaphor for the filmmaking process itself. It's all sleight-of-hand. Some people inevitably feel tricked or cheated. Me? I admire the mechanics.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 8/8/2012 10:27:06 AM >

(in reply to Deviation)

Post #: 1318

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 12:55:08 AM

Lazarus munkey

Posts: 1651
Joined: 20/3/2006
From: out of nowhere

1504 posts and I bet no one has had their opinion changed on this film.

_____________________________

"Because I got the answers"

Last 5 seen
Chronicle 4/5
The Amazing Spider-Man 3/5
Young Adult 4/5
21 Jump Street 4/5
The Apartment 5/5

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 1319

RE: The Boring Knight Rises..Again - 8/8/2012 9:45:14 AM

cerebusboy

Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

Not really. If the impetus was just on taking no chances he'd have nuked Gotham without the five month build up. And killing the special forces guys is not about not taking chances, it's about sending a message.

And for the sake of sending a message, he does something as silly as leave the cops alive. Jesus, this is why I couldn't love this film when it walks with thoughts like this.

Silly? The cops are only of use because Batman comes back! If you think it's acceptable that Bane wouldn't think Batman would escape, then Bane can hardly be expected to worry about Batman using the cops as an army surely? If they'd tried to escape, he could have killed them. Indeed, we are specifically shown (the scene with Blake about to free them) that there are soldiers guarding the exit and it wouldn't take much to throw some grenades down. Aside from which, even if the cops DID escape, and faced off as in the final film, they would have been mowed down by the operational tumblers that Bane had! (Again, which were only put out of commission due to Batman).

(in reply to Deviation)

Post #: 1320