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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:23:28 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

**SPOILERS**

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
But hey this goes back to my point in the review - if Bats didn't know this, then maybe he shouldn't have barged right into the HQ to take him on. It is dumb writing.


Isn't this addressed slightly by the conversation between Wayne and Alfred before all that? Not very satisfactorily I grant you, but there's a lot of Alfred trying to impress upon him that Bane is a dangerous opponent and Wayne asserting that he always rises to the challenge (if you'll excuse the pun?).


Sure, but was that his plan? To just go in and fight and army by himself and then punch Bane? Bats is usually smart than that. You know - if he just got Catwoman to point on a map where the base was he could likely have figured out what they were trying to steal.

It is done this way because they needed Bane to do what Bane does in the shortest possible time and at the cost of storytelling.


Surely it was because, in the battle between hope and despair for Gotham's soul, it was obvious that Gotham needed Batman as Visible Symbol (c.f. all those scenes with Blake and the kid)? A stealth mission would not have accomplished that.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 301
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:24:08 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54574
Joined: 1/10/2005
But he also knows he at least had links or was part of the League of SHadows. That's not exactly a stroll in the woods fightwise. 

_____________________________

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 302
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:24:15 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

**SPOILERS**

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
But hey this goes back to my point in the review - if Bats didn't know this, then maybe he shouldn't have barged right into the HQ to take him on. It is dumb writing.


Isn't this addressed slightly by the conversation between Wayne and Alfred before all that? Not very satisfactorily I grant you, but there's a lot of Alfred trying to impress upon him that Bane is a dangerous opponent and Wayne asserting that he always rises to the challenge (if you'll excuse the pun?).


Sure, but was that his plan? To just go in and fight and army by himself and then punch Bane? Bats is usually smart than that. You know - if he just got Catwoman to point on a map where the base was he could likely have figured out what they were trying to steal.

It is done this way because they needed Bane to do what Bane does in the shortest possible time and at the cost of storytelling.


Surely it was because, in the battle between hope and despair for Gotham's soul, it was obvious that Gotham needed Batman as Visible Symbol (c.f. all those scenes with Blake and the kid)? A stealth mission would not have accomplished that.



But he wasn't being visable when he went down and fought Bane. It was the very opposite of that in fact.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 303
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:25:29 PM   
ChickMagnet

 

Posts: 1765
Joined: 19/5/2008
From: Salford
OK, so me and tweets have just got back from seeing and I have to say that I personally loved it, though I did have 2 niggles with writing in the film and one with myself - all 3 are in the Spoiler-tastic bit below, pointed out to ensure it isn't ruining the flick for other people going to see it:















SPOILERS

Firstly, I am pissed at myself for not picking up on the Talia Twist - I was fuming when they did the whole Bane is Ra's Ah Gul's kid thing, and even mentioned to the missus that Ra's had a daughter not a son - knowing that Talia and Bruce did have a mini-relationship kind of thing in the books, I feel I should've seen that one coming.

However, one thing I did see coming was the final scene - as soon as Alfred mentioned it earlier on, you knew that was how it was going to end, I'm just saddened that they had to show Wayne and Kyle on screen, in my eyes the perfect time to finish it was when Alfred smiled.

Finally, did they really need to have Blake revealed to be called Robin? Obviously that gets people thinking we may get a Robin based flick, where as if they do go down this route I would've preferred Blake reveal his name as Dick Grayson and they do a Nightwing flick instead


Having said the above though, I agree with Empire giving it 5 stars - Bane was slightly hard to hear at times, but it was a story that kept me guessing, nobody really had a bad part on screen and it was the perfect end to the trilogy.

(in reply to demoncleaner)
Post #: 304
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:29:36 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy




The CIA guy just knew Bane wore a mask. It's hardly obvious it's primarily an aid to breathing, given that it's deliberately designed to be bad ass and scary. Do the CIA even know Bane's origin story? And it's not like there's big gas tanks on the back of Bane that would lead to people to guess that he was breathing in painkilling gas. Bane, to a casual observer, is just a scary guy in a scary outfit.


The CIA guy asked if it would hurt if he took it off - the inference being he knew it was a breathing tool.

And you can see the mechanics of the mask as it works - Batman isn't an idiot. Or at least he shouldn't be. Wayne had plenty of info on Bane - he seemed to be well known.


It's not necessarily an inference that he knew it was for breathing problems . Threatening to tear the mask of "the masked man" in the context of aggressive interrogation is hardly a proof that the CIA knew it was for breathing problems (which it's not, anyway). Aside from which Bane is playing possum when the CIA guy sees him up close, whereas Batman is literally fighting for his life in his first fight for Bane, hardly conducive to ruminations on whether Bane is connected to some kind of anaesthetic gas system for an injury we can't and that (to riot in understatement) hardly seems to be curbing his physical movement.

Did Batman really have great info on Bane? Didn't the Batcomputer just come back with general stuff on him being a mercenary (with nothing about the league of shadows)? And you'll need to elaborate on what you mean by the mechanics working - the mask is fixed metal, it's not like we see movements obviously suggestive of gas being pumped in from somewhere.








It is Alfred who tells Wayne that Bane was connected to the LoS - so they do have quite a bit of detail. I am sure - "always wears mask" is in there.

As for the mechanics - it isn't a single piece - wires pop out of it - the ones Talia puts back in at the end for example.



Batman always wears a mask! So did Scarecrow! And the Joker had a "war paint" disguise! I'd argue that in the world Nolan has established "anaesthetic gas mask" is VERY low down the list of reasons people (Batman included) would suspect Bane of wearing a mask for. And the mask is obviously metal, and "punch metal" is unlikely to be anyone's idea of an obvious go to fight move.

Talia puts the wires int after they've been punched out, it's hardly obvious (from the "unpunched" mask - I'll try and find a good picture) that the mask has weak spots, let alone that the weak spots will cripple Bane (i.e. even if the mask did look like Batman could easily punch it off that would hardly mean that he, or the audience, should expect that doing so will cripple Bane because he's connected to anaesthetic)

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 305
dear flexijerkoff - 20/7/2012 8:30:02 PM   
mclane1


Posts: 367
Joined: 7/2/2009
you are a funny guy. watch ironman 2 instead or Spawn , you'll like them more
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr FlexiJerkOff

A massive let-down. Can't believe what I have just seen. Feel like I've just been taken for a mug. A 3 star movie that loses a star for the cheap way in which it ends. Simply not good enough.



< Message edited by mclane1 -- 20/7/2012 8:31:26 PM >


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If the cash is there, we do not care.
Post #: 306
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:31:14 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickMagnet

OK, so me and tweets have just got back from seeing and I have to say that I personally loved it, though I did have 2 niggles with writing in the film and one with myself - all 3 are in the Spoiler-tastic bit below, pointed out to ensure it isn't ruining the flick for other people going to see it:








Never mind Dick Grayson, if we're following up a Batman film where Bats and Talia have sex, the obvious way forward would be to include Damian Wayne - easily the greatest of all the Robins



< Message edited by cerebusboy -- 20/7/2012 8:32:14 PM >

(in reply to ChickMagnet)
Post #: 307
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:35:28 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy




The CIA guy just knew Bane wore a mask. It's hardly obvious it's primarily an aid to breathing, given that it's deliberately designed to be bad ass and scary. Do the CIA even know Bane's origin story? And it's not like there's big gas tanks on the back of Bane that would lead to people to guess that he was breathing in painkilling gas. Bane, to a casual observer, is just a scary guy in a scary outfit.


The CIA guy asked if it would hurt if he took it off - the inference being he knew it was a breathing tool.

And you can see the mechanics of the mask as it works - Batman isn't an idiot. Or at least he shouldn't be. Wayne had plenty of info on Bane - he seemed to be well known.


It's not necessarily an inference that he knew it was for breathing problems . Threatening to tear the mask of "the masked man" in the context of aggressive interrogation is hardly a proof that the CIA knew it was for breathing problems (which it's not, anyway). Aside from which Bane is playing possum when the CIA guy sees him up close, whereas Batman is literally fighting for his life in his first fight for Bane, hardly conducive to ruminations on whether Bane is connected to some kind of anaesthetic gas system for an injury we can't and that (to riot in understatement) hardly seems to be curbing his physical movement.

Did Batman really have great info on Bane? Didn't the Batcomputer just come back with general stuff on him being a mercenary (with nothing about the league of shadows)? And you'll need to elaborate on what you mean by the mechanics working - the mask is fixed metal, it's not like we see movements obviously suggestive of gas being pumped in from somewhere.








It is Alfred who tells Wayne that Bane was connected to the LoS - so they do have quite a bit of detail. I am sure - "always wears mask" is in there.

As for the mechanics - it isn't a single piece - wires pop out of it - the ones Talia puts back in at the end for example.



Batman always wears a mask! So did Scarecrow! And the Joker had a "war paint" disguise! I'd argue that in the world Nolan has established "anaesthetic gas mask" is VERY low down the list of reasons people (Batman included) would suspect Bane of wearing a mask for. And the mask is obviously metal, and "punch metal" is unlikely to be anyone's idea of an obvious go to fight move.



Actually Batman seems to know why Scarcrow wears a mask in Begins, because he rips it off of him before giving him a dose of toxin.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 308
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:36:02 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8220
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

Batman always wears a mask! So did Scarecrow! And the Joker had a "war paint" disguise! I'd argue that in the world Nolan has established "anaesthetic gas mask" is VERY low down the list of reasons people (Batman included) would suspect Bane of wearing a mask for. And the mask is obviously metal, and "punch metal" is unlikely to be anyone's idea of an obvious go to fight move.

Talia puts the wires int after they've been punched out, it's hardly obvious (from the "unpunched" mask - I'll try and find a good picture) that the mask has weak spots, let alone that the weak spots will cripple Bane (i.e. even if the mask did look like Batman could easily punch it off that would hardly mean that he, or the audience, should expect that doing so will cripple Bane because he's connected to anaesthetic)


The first thing Batman does when he gets hold of Scarecrow in BB is tear his mask off. All Joker wants Batman to do is remove his mask. Completely ignoring Bane's makes Batman seem dumb. Even if you remove the common sense involved in thinking "Hmm, he's wearing a mask. Perhaps removing it might help", the wearing of and removing of masks is a theme in all the films.

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 309
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:36:18 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

**SPOILERS**

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
But hey this goes back to my point in the review - if Bats didn't know this, then maybe he shouldn't have barged right into the HQ to take him on. It is dumb writing.


Isn't this addressed slightly by the conversation between Wayne and Alfred before all that? Not very satisfactorily I grant you, but there's a lot of Alfred trying to impress upon him that Bane is a dangerous opponent and Wayne asserting that he always rises to the challenge (if you'll excuse the pun?).


Sure, but was that his plan? To just go in and fight and army by himself and then punch Bane? Bats is usually smart than that. You know - if he just got Catwoman to point on a map where the base was he could likely have figured out what they were trying to steal.

It is done this way because they needed Bane to do what Bane does in the shortest possible time and at the cost of storytelling.


Surely it was because, in the battle between hope and despair for Gotham's soul, it was obvious that Gotham needed Batman as Visible Symbol (c.f. all those scenes with Blake and the kid)? A stealth mission would not have accomplished that.



But he wasn't being visable when he went down and fought Bane. It was the very opposite of that in fact.



Are you talking about the final battle? Before Bane gets punched through the glass, we're quite deliberately shown him beating up gotham policemen before Batman steps up, pick on someone your own size style, to get Bane's attention.



(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 310
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:37:50 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
No I am talking about the first fight.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 311
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:41:51 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

Batman always wears a mask! So did Scarecrow! And the Joker had a "war paint" disguise! I'd argue that in the world Nolan has established "anaesthetic gas mask" is VERY low down the list of reasons people (Batman included) would suspect Bane of wearing a mask for. And the mask is obviously metal, and "punch metal" is unlikely to be anyone's idea of an obvious go to fight move.

Talia puts the wires int after they've been punched out, it's hardly obvious (from the "unpunched" mask - I'll try and find a good picture) that the mask has weak spots, let alone that the weak spots will cripple Bane (i.e. even if the mask did look like Batman could easily punch it off that would hardly mean that he, or the audience, should expect that doing so will cripple Bane because he's connected to anaesthetic)


The first thing Batman does when he gets hold of Scarecrow in BB is tear his mask off. All Joker wants Batman to do is remove his mask. Completely ignoring Bane's makes Batman seem dumb. Even if you remove the common sense involved in thinking "Hmm, he's wearing a mask. Perhaps removing it might help", the wearing of and removing of masks is a theme in all the films.


The Joker and Scarecrow are not physical matches for Batman, and paint and hoods are easier to take off than fixed metal. I'd argue that, when Batman is literally fighting for his life, "try and punch this guy's mask off" is very far from the obvious move .
Remember Bane catching Batman's fist in their first fight? Batman can hardly afford to take his eyes off Bane's hands and openings for body shots to start whaling on a metal mask.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 312
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:44:43 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy




The CIA guy just knew Bane wore a mask. It's hardly obvious it's primarily an aid to breathing, given that it's deliberately designed to be bad ass and scary. Do the CIA even know Bane's origin story? And it's not like there's big gas tanks on the back of Bane that would lead to people to guess that he was breathing in painkilling gas. Bane, to a casual observer, is just a scary guy in a scary outfit.


The CIA guy asked if it would hurt if he took it off - the inference being he knew it was a breathing tool.

And you can see the mechanics of the mask as it works - Batman isn't an idiot. Or at least he shouldn't be. Wayne had plenty of info on Bane - he seemed to be well known.


It's not necessarily an inference that he knew it was for breathing problems . Threatening to tear the mask of "the masked man" in the context of aggressive interrogation is hardly a proof that the CIA knew it was for breathing problems (which it's not, anyway). Aside from which Bane is playing possum when the CIA guy sees him up close, whereas Batman is literally fighting for his life in his first fight for Bane, hardly conducive to ruminations on whether Bane is connected to some kind of anaesthetic gas system for an injury we can't and that (to riot in understatement) hardly seems to be curbing his physical movement.

Did Batman really have great info on Bane? Didn't the Batcomputer just come back with general stuff on him being a mercenary (with nothing about the league of shadows)? And you'll need to elaborate on what you mean by the mechanics working - the mask is fixed metal, it's not like we see movements obviously suggestive of gas being pumped in from somewhere.








It is Alfred who tells Wayne that Bane was connected to the LoS - so they do have quite a bit of detail. I am sure - "always wears mask" is in there.

As for the mechanics - it isn't a single piece - wires pop out of it - the ones Talia puts back in at the end for example.



Batman always wears a mask! So did Scarecrow! And the Joker had a "war paint" disguise! I'd argue that in the world Nolan has established "anaesthetic gas mask" is VERY low down the list of reasons people (Batman included) would suspect Bane of wearing a mask for. And the mask is obviously metal, and "punch metal" is unlikely to be anyone's idea of an obvious go to fight move.



Actually Batman seems to know why Scarcrow wears a mask in Begins, because he rips it off of him before giving him a dose of toxin.


Yes, but it's easy to rip off that mask (in contrast to saying Batman should know to start punching a fixed metal mask when he's fighting for his life), and that mask turns out to be a disguise, which is what you'd expect (in contrast to the view that Batman should somehow know that Bane's mask is an anaesthetic gas supplying weak spot).

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 313
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:46:18 PM   
SWOTBM


Posts: 1998
Joined: 6/5/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

Batman always wears a mask! So did Scarecrow! And the Joker had a "war paint" disguise! I'd argue that in the world Nolan has established "anaesthetic gas mask" is VERY low down the list of reasons people (Batman included) would suspect Bane of wearing a mask for. And the mask is obviously metal, and "punch metal" is unlikely to be anyone's idea of an obvious go to fight move.

Talia puts the wires int after they've been punched out, it's hardly obvious (from the "unpunched" mask - I'll try and find a good picture) that the mask has weak spots, let alone that the weak spots will cripple Bane (i.e. even if the mask did look like Batman could easily punch it off that would hardly mean that he, or the audience, should expect that doing so will cripple Bane because he's connected to anaesthetic)


The first thing Batman does when he gets hold of Scarecrow in BB is tear his mask off. All Joker wants Batman to do is remove his mask. Completely ignoring Bane's makes Batman seem dumb. Even if you remove the common sense involved in thinking "Hmm, he's wearing a mask. Perhaps removing it might help", the wearing of and removing of masks is a theme in all the films.


The Joker and Scarecrow are not physical matches for Batman, and paint and hoods are easier to take off than fixed metal. I'd argue that, when Batman is literally fighting for his life, "try and punch this guy's mask off" is very far from the obvious move .
Remember Bane catching Batman's fist in their first fight? Batman can hardly afford to take his eyes off Bane's hands and openings for body shots to start whaling on a metal mask.


I would argue the opposite. Batman knows, as Alfred has pointed out to him, that Bane is physically superior. He would then look for any weakness. Looking at Bane the only possible weakness would be the mask.

_____________________________

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(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 314
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:46:47 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy




The CIA guy just knew Bane wore a mask. It's hardly obvious it's primarily an aid to breathing, given that it's deliberately designed to be bad ass and scary. Do the CIA even know Bane's origin story? And it's not like there's big gas tanks on the back of Bane that would lead to people to guess that he was breathing in painkilling gas. Bane, to a casual observer, is just a scary guy in a scary outfit.


The CIA guy asked if it would hurt if he took it off - the inference being he knew it was a breathing tool.

And you can see the mechanics of the mask as it works - Batman isn't an idiot. Or at least he shouldn't be. Wayne had plenty of info on Bane - he seemed to be well known.


It's not necessarily an inference that he knew it was for breathing problems . Threatening to tear the mask of "the masked man" in the context of aggressive interrogation is hardly a proof that the CIA knew it was for breathing problems (which it's not, anyway). Aside from which Bane is playing possum when the CIA guy sees him up close, whereas Batman is literally fighting for his life in his first fight for Bane, hardly conducive to ruminations on whether Bane is connected to some kind of anaesthetic gas system for an injury we can't and that (to riot in understatement) hardly seems to be curbing his physical movement.

Did Batman really have great info on Bane? Didn't the Batcomputer just come back with general stuff on him being a mercenary (with nothing about the league of shadows)? And you'll need to elaborate on what you mean by the mechanics working - the mask is fixed metal, it's not like we see movements obviously suggestive of gas being pumped in from somewhere.








It is Alfred who tells Wayne that Bane was connected to the LoS - so they do have quite a bit of detail. I am sure - "always wears mask" is in there.

As for the mechanics - it isn't a single piece - wires pop out of it - the ones Talia puts back in at the end for example.



Batman always wears a mask! So did Scarecrow! And the Joker had a "war paint" disguise! I'd argue that in the world Nolan has established "anaesthetic gas mask" is VERY low down the list of reasons people (Batman included) would suspect Bane of wearing a mask for. And the mask is obviously metal, and "punch metal" is unlikely to be anyone's idea of an obvious go to fight move.



Actually Batman seems to know why Scarcrow wears a mask in Begins, because he rips it off of him before giving him a dose of toxin.



So all the bad guys Batman have faced before Bane that have worn masks have done so as disguises, not secret gas mask anesthetic systems? That's my point! "Bane" sounds like a bad guy with a secret identity.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 315
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:55:04 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

Batman always wears a mask! So did Scarecrow! And the Joker had a "war paint" disguise! I'd argue that in the world Nolan has established "anaesthetic gas mask" is VERY low down the list of reasons people (Batman included) would suspect Bane of wearing a mask for. And the mask is obviously metal, and "punch metal" is unlikely to be anyone's idea of an obvious go to fight move.

Talia puts the wires int after they've been punched out, it's hardly obvious (from the "unpunched" mask - I'll try and find a good picture) that the mask has weak spots, let alone that the weak spots will cripple Bane (i.e. even if the mask did look like Batman could easily punch it off that would hardly mean that he, or the audience, should expect that doing so will cripple Bane because he's connected to anaesthetic)


The first thing Batman does when he gets hold of Scarecrow in BB is tear his mask off. All Joker wants Batman to do is remove his mask. Completely ignoring Bane's makes Batman seem dumb. Even if you remove the common sense involved in thinking "Hmm, he's wearing a mask. Perhaps removing it might help", the wearing of and removing of masks is a theme in all the films.


The Joker and Scarecrow are not physical matches for Batman, and paint and hoods are easier to take off than fixed metal. I'd argue that, when Batman is literally fighting for his life, "try and punch this guy's mask off" is very far from the obvious move .
Remember Bane catching Batman's fist in their first fight? Batman can hardly afford to take his eyes off Bane's hands and openings for body shots to start whaling on a metal mask.


I would argue the opposite. Batman knows, as Alfred has pointed out to him, that Bane is physically superior. He would then look for any weakness. Looking at Bane the only possible weakness would be the mask.



Alfred tells Bruce that Bane is physically superior but Bruce, at that point, doesn't accept it (the conversation is consistent with Alfred worried Bruce will get killed if he gets back in the saddle and Bruce, perhaps hubristically, shrugging off those doubts). If I was fighting someone physically superior, I'd try and kick them in the balls or something (but then, I am from Glasgow. I'd maintain that a solid metal mask is very far from an obvious "weakness".

(in reply to SWOTBM)
Post #: 316
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:55:23 PM   
ChickMagnet

 

Posts: 1765
Joined: 19/5/2008
From: Salford

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickMagnet

OK, so me and tweets have just got back from seeing and I have to say that I personally loved it, though I did have 2 niggles with writing in the film and one with myself - all 3 are in the Spoiler-tastic bit below, pointed out to ensure it isn't ruining the flick for other people going to see it:








Never mind Dick Grayson, if we're following up a Batman film where Bats and Talia have sex, the obvious way forward would be to include Damian Wayne - easily the greatest of all the Robins




I think I may have just wee'd a little at the prospect of Damian Wayne appearing on the big screen

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 317
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:57:10 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

No I am talking about the first fight.



ah, mea culpa. In that case I'd reassert my point about Selina. You might argue that it's dumb of Batman to trust her, but he is obviously out of practice, and at the very least the decision is thematically consistent (the tensions between Bruce Wayne the fallible human and transcendent Batman etc)

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 318
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 9:03:42 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006


And what evidence does Batman have in the first fight that Bane has *any* physical weaknesses, let alone an obvious one? Bane catches Batman's punch and then hits him harder than he's been hit before. Those circumstances are hardly conducive to Batman having a lucky guess that Bane's big scary metal mask is actually an achilles heel!

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 319
RE: What a film...what a trilogy - 20/7/2012 9:08:03 PM   
Lazarus munkey


Posts: 1650
Joined: 20/3/2006
From: out of nowhere
This thread's gone mental.

Who'd have thunk it?

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Post #: 320
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 9:17:10 PM   
TheMightyBlackout


Posts: 225
Joined: 28/4/2012
From: Oxford, UK
On the whole, it's as dark and intense as the previous two films in the series. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but always around the same watermark. For a Batman film, there's not a lot of Batman. When he is around, everything's so 'explodey' that it's difficult to enjoy his presence.
Overall, it's very enjoyable, but it just feels like there's too much story fighting for attention, and the flow suffers as a result. The Dark Knight Rises doesn't seem to have the intrigue or fun of its predecessors.

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Post #: 321
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 9:24:57 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickMagnet


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickMagnet

OK, so me and tweets have just got back from seeing and I have to say that I personally loved it, though I did have 2 niggles with writing in the film and one with myself - all 3 are in the Spoiler-tastic bit below, pointed out to ensure it isn't ruining the flick for other people going to see it:








Never mind Dick Grayson, if we're following up a Batman film where Bats and Talia have sex, the obvious way forward would be to include Damian Wayne - easily the greatest of all the Robins




I think I may have just wee'd a little at the prospect of Damian Wayne appearing on the big screen



"-tt-"

(in reply to ChickMagnet)
Post #: 322
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 9:38:34 PM   
Ballschin

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 5/3/2008
Some parts were truly spectacular but other parts left me very disappointed. My main issue is that the character of Batman as a symbol, an urban legend/myth, is almost completely disregarded in this film. Gone is the Batman who emerges at night, and fights crime from the shadows. Here he brazenly walks down the street in midday and flies a plane round blowing the holy hell out of everything he sees.

That and the fact that he disappears for a good hour in the middle for plot reasons makes it feel less like a Batman film than the other two.

The ending also could have been handled better - I liked that he survived but it could surely have been hinted at, like just Gordon's light being repaired, then the film ending. I feel like the studio stepped in here and forced a more obvious ending incase "stupid" audiences didn't like the ambiguity. And the John Blake/Robin/replacing Batman nonsense just seemed absurd. That was surely only included incase the studio get cold feet with regards to a complete reboot.

Having said all that there were still bits thats totally wowed me, when Batman first comes out of retirement and appears mid chase amongst the motor bikes you really get a sense of him as an almost mythical being, appearing out of nowhere to the shock and delight of onlookers. Bane's brutality was awesome (his death was very unsatisfying for such a powerhouse character) and Catwoman was undoubtedly the star of the show, great as character and unbelievably sexy.

Probably 4 stars in the end, my least favourite of the 3 but still very good.

(in reply to TheMightyBlackout)
Post #: 323
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 9:59:48 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ballschin

Some parts were truly spectacular but other parts left me very disappointed. My main issue is that the character of Batman as a symbol, an urban legend/myth, is almost completely disregarded in this film. Gone is the Batman who emerges at night, and fights crime from the shadows. Here he brazenly walks down the street in midday and flies a plane round blowing the holy hell out of everything he sees.

That and the fact that he disappears for a good hour in the middle for plot reasons makes it feel less like a Batman film than the other two.

The ending also could have been handled better - I liked that he survived but it could surely have been hinted at, like just Gordon's light being repaired, then the film ending. I feel like the studio stepped in here and forced a more obvious ending incase "stupid" audiences didn't like the ambiguity. And the John Blake/Robin/replacing Batman nonsense just seemed absurd. That was surely only included incase the studio get cold feet with regards to a complete reboot.

Having said all that there were still bits thats totally wowed me, when Batman first comes out of retirement and appears mid chase amongst the motor bikes you really get a sense of him as an almost mythical being, appearing out of nowhere to the shock and delight of onlookers. Bane's brutality was awesome (his death was very unsatisfying for such a powerhouse character) and Catwoman was undoubtedly the star of the show, great as character and unbelievably sexy.

Probably 4 stars in the end, my least favourite of the 3 but still very good.



Come on, Batman has to come out at daytime - this is, as he makes clear, war : not a time where it's possible to stick to just fannying about at night! Personally, I like the way that, whatever else one may say about the film, it was a genuine escalation, requiring new challenges from Batman (wouldn't it have felt a bit retrograde for him to go back to just cracking some skulls at night, Batman Begins style?)

I'm a bit puzzled by some in this thread (not you, just saying) who query Batman's retirement. Crime's been down in Gotham for the past 8 years, and the plan concocted at the end of The Dark Knight basically worked. Why would Bruce risk creating some more Joker-style escalation? Crime's down because of the Dent Act, and the Dent Act wouldn't have passed if Batman hadn't taken the fall for his murder. Of course, Bruce is taking his eye off the ball (c.f. the orphanage not getting funding) in other ways, but it's not like Batman's "retirement" is an obvious dereliction of duty or anything.





(in reply to Ballschin)
Post #: 324
RE: Tom Hardy obviously re-dubbed all his dialogue afte... - 20/7/2012 10:02:26 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cameron1975Williams

Catwoman was surplus to requirements.


Seriously? How would the plot and themes have worked without her?
Post #: 325
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 10:27:27 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ballschin

Some parts were truly spectacular but other parts left me very disappointed. My main issue is that the character of Batman as a symbol, an urban legend/myth, is almost completely disregarded in this film. Gone is the Batman who emerges at night, and fights crime from the shadows. Here he brazenly walks down the street in midday and flies a plane round blowing the holy hell out of everything he sees.

That and the fact that he disappears for a good hour in the middle for plot reasons makes it feel less like a Batman film than the other two.

The ending also could have been handled better - I liked that he survived but it could surely have been hinted at, like just Gordon's light being repaired, then the film ending. I feel like the studio stepped in here and forced a more obvious ending incase "stupid" audiences didn't like the ambiguity. And the John Blake/Robin/replacing Batman nonsense just seemed absurd. That was surely only included incase the studio get cold feet with regards to a complete reboot.

Having said all that there were still bits thats totally wowed me, when Batman first comes out of retirement and appears mid chase amongst the motor bikes you really get a sense of him as an almost mythical being, appearing out of nowhere to the shock and delight of onlookers. Bane's brutality was awesome (his death was very unsatisfying for such a powerhouse character) and Catwoman was undoubtedly the star of the show, great as character and unbelievably sexy.

Probably 4 stars in the end, my least favourite of the 3 but still very good.



Come on, Batman has to come out at daytime - this is, as he makes clear, war : not a time where it's possible to stick to just fannying about at night! Personally, I like the way that, whatever else one may say about the film, it was a genuine escalation, requiring new challenges from Batman (wouldn't it have felt a bit retrograde for him to go back to just cracking some skulls at night, Batman Begins style?)

I'm a bit puzzled by some in this thread (not you, just saying) who query Batman's retirement. Crime's been down in Gotham for the past 8 years, and the plan concocted at the end of The Dark Knight basically worked. Why would Bruce risk creating some more Joker-style escalation? Crime's down because of the Dent Act, and the Dent Act wouldn't have passed if Batman hadn't taken the fall for his murder. Of course, Bruce is taking his eye off the ball (c.f. the orphanage not getting funding) in other ways, but it's not like Batman's "retirement" is an obvious dereliction of duty or anything.







They are talking about getting rid of the Dent Act when the movie starts.

_____________________________

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(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 326
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 11:06:31 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ballschin

Some parts were truly spectacular but other parts left me very disappointed. My main issue is that the character of Batman as a symbol, an urban legend/myth, is almost completely disregarded in this film. Gone is the Batman who emerges at night, and fights crime from the shadows. Here he brazenly walks down the street in midday and flies a plane round blowing the holy hell out of everything he sees.

That and the fact that he disappears for a good hour in the middle for plot reasons makes it feel less like a Batman film than the other two.

The ending also could have been handled better - I liked that he survived but it could surely have been hinted at, like just Gordon's light being repaired, then the film ending. I feel like the studio stepped in here and forced a more obvious ending incase "stupid" audiences didn't like the ambiguity. And the John Blake/Robin/replacing Batman nonsense just seemed absurd. That was surely only included incase the studio get cold feet with regards to a complete reboot.

Having said all that there were still bits thats totally wowed me, when Batman first comes out of retirement and appears mid chase amongst the motor bikes you really get a sense of him as an almost mythical being, appearing out of nowhere to the shock and delight of onlookers. Bane's brutality was awesome (his death was very unsatisfying for such a powerhouse character) and Catwoman was undoubtedly the star of the show, great as character and unbelievably sexy.

Probably 4 stars in the end, my least favourite of the 3 but still very good.



Come on, Batman has to come out at daytime - this is, as he makes clear, war : not a time where it's possible to stick to just fannying about at night! Personally, I like the way that, whatever else one may say about the film, it was a genuine escalation, requiring new challenges from Batman (wouldn't it have felt a bit retrograde for him to go back to just cracking some skulls at night, Batman Begins style?)

I'm a bit puzzled by some in this thread (not you, just saying) who query Batman's retirement. Crime's been down in Gotham for the past 8 years, and the plan concocted at the end of The Dark Knight basically worked. Why would Bruce risk creating some more Joker-style escalation? Crime's down because of the Dent Act, and the Dent Act wouldn't have passed if Batman hadn't taken the fall for his murder. Of course, Bruce is taking his eye off the ball (c.f. the orphanage not getting funding) in other ways, but it's not like Batman's "retirement" is an obvious dereliction of duty or anything.







They are talking about getting rid of the Dent Act when the movie starts.



Calls, presumably from the Gotham branch of the ACLU, that the Mayor is resisting because the act has been so successful. Aren't most of Blackgate's inhabitants there because of the Dent Act? From a crime-fighting, Batman perspective the act has demonstrably been a success, even if "only" for 8 years.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 327
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 11:39:47 PM   
jon5000


Posts: 1089
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA
What a let down! So disappointed.

So much wrong with this film I don't know where to begin! The pacing was way too fast, leaving most characters completely underdeveloped. Some of the exposition/dialogue was cringeworthy at times. The action was your typical summer blockbuster fair... I honestly think this film, Transformers 3 and The Avengers are basically the same film, no? Hollywood has got to move on from this city destruction lark. It's just becoming meaningless now.

On a positive, it made me realise what an outstanding film The Dark Knight is. Tom Hardy, for all his efforts is no Ledger. Ledger is this trilogy's villain. Heck, he is this trilogy. I'm so disappointed with this film in comparison... dare I say it, I think Nolan has lost it. This and Inception. Meh.

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 328
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 12:06:34 AM   
Leonard or Sammy

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 9/10/2010
POTENTIAL SPOILERS ARE IN THIS POST, PLEASE SKIP OVER NOW





ballschin......poor old Nolan, he has been slated for not staying true to the comic books. When he sticks to the comics and batman has his back broken, put in prison and needs to recover, what else could he do?

I personally thought it was a great movie. I am a big fan of Nolan and all his movies, BUT unlike a lot of people on here I appreciate he is making blockbusters here. Yes, he TRIES to have all the movies grounded in reality, but we are still talking about a comic book movie. It, like TDK, does contain plot holes, and big flights of fancy. Show me a comic book movie that does not. If Nolan and co. stopped making blockbusters or comic book movies tomorrow, I am sure we will get excellently written, well acted and directed movies which will be much more challenging than most movies released in the last 10-20 years.

People are judging Nolan very harshly. (oddly enough, the Nolan haters seem to be most disappointed because it does not live up to their expectations or its not the best movie ever made) Look at what he achieved with BB. That was only meant to be a one-off movie which led into Burtons Batman. In that movie he was able to ground it very well in reality because of the villains used. (Scarecrow, LOS using a mind altering drug). We all saw clearly how Batman "began" and how "real" that could be. Unfortunately when he agreed to do TDK and TDKR he had raise the anti, and had to TRY and make scenes grounded in reality, that simply do not come across well as grounded in our reality.

I see people are moaning about him not ripping off Banes mask, have you seen how tight it was on his head? how could he possibly take it off, and how he could of got close enough to do it? There is also no way he would of known what the mask was for in the first fight. We only know why Bane wears mask does because we all researched Bane before the movie. All he knew was he grew up in a prison and was a good fighter.

Also, before the fight, Alfred talks about Bruce possibly wanting to die. I think Bruce wanted to fight Bane, not only, because he was not afraid to be beaten, or killed, but because he had never been beaten before and clearly thought he could take him down.

Back to the movie, I feel it is stronger than TDK, and that Bane is much more formidable, intelligent and believable villain than the Joker and is just pure unrelenting evil throughout the film. I don't feel the movie is too long and more time could have been spent with certain characters if required. It closes the three movies together nicely and certainly left me wanting more. I personally felt the the first 30-40 minutes were very slow and really picked up in the final two-thirds. Anne Hathaway was simply excellent in her role, as was Bale. Caine too shone, as did JGL and Gary Oldman, in fact I can't recall a badly acted part. The script is, as always, of a high quality and this is what sets this, TDK and BB apart from all other comic book and summer blockbuster movies. I could follow the plot pretty well and had no real questions about what had happened and why in the movie I felt great sadness at certain points, and like most, was close to tears at one point in the movie...towards the end. The first fight scene is a sight to behold, the lack of music and Banes sheer strength and ability to take anything thrown at him, is like nothing I have ever seen before. The threat to all involved is prominent through-out the film, and certainly to Batman.

I like the ending, even if it is a tiny bit cheesy, but again it is a comic book movie that tries (and succeeds to a pretty large extent) to be grounded in reality.

As stated above there are niggles in the movie (its rare for a movie not to) and you have allow the fantasy take over at certain points, but that should not detract from the overall excellence of this movie. Watch it as a stand alone and DO NOT compare it to TDK. They are completely different movies and should be treated as such.

It also beats Avengers hands down, not that there was a great deal with the avengers

I can't really rate it a 5 star movie (a five star experience) but a four-four and a half star movie.

We have been completely spoilt with this trilogy, and it will be extremely difficult for someone to better this.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 329
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 21/7/2012 12:50:48 AM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3080
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonard or Sammy

People are judging Nolan very harshly. (oddly enough, the Nolan haters seem to be most disappointed because it does not live up to their expectations or its not the best movie ever made) Look at what he achieved with BB. That was only meant to be a one-off movie which led into Burtons Batman.



What??? Batman Begins is a reboot not a prequel!

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