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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 5:19:52 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14520
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
Ironically, I heard every line from Bane just fine - it was a couple of other characters - Batman and Blake spring to mind - that were occasionally muffled.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 5:22:34 PM   
demoncleaner


Posts: 2379
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast
I lost the line....

VERY MILD SPOILER

...Bane says to the Special Forces Captain.  It sounded badass...along the lines of "Apology accepted Captain Needa".  Anyone catch it?

END SPOILER

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Post #: 272
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 5:42:39 PM   
nhassell


Posts: 237
Joined: 23/8/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000


quote:

ORIGINAL: nhassell

Seen it (in IMAX, no less). Perfect ending to what, in my opinion, is the greatest trilogy in the history of film.


What was the sound like? I've heard that IMAX has no problems with understanding dialogue, whereas in other cinemas (I saw it at Odeon Leceister Sq) some of the dialogue is unintelligable.
I could hear pretty much everything fine. I was sitting right in the middle about 15 or so rows back from the front, so not near the speakers or anything. I missed a few of Bane's lines, but nothing important.

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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 5:45:37 PM   
fiercehairdo

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Regards the films politics.....Nolan, on camera at the premiere, confirmed he made no intention of putting any political message into the Batman films. So, from the horses mouth there is no political message contained within, not from his perspective. So, when the maker of the film says so, who are we to argue either way? I'm not sure if he has confirmed in interviews before that any of his Bat films were meant to carry any kind of political message, so am not sure if the latest interview contradicts something else he said previously. I guess I can only take a film director at his/her word and then critique his/her movie and its message based on my own viewing of it, and in terms of The Dark Knight Rises, I never once got any suggestion that the story was trying to carry any political message. It felt far smaller than that, much more about one persons story rather than that of the world around him. Certainly never felt like there was an underlying message in support of the wealthy or that people rising up against the wealthy and elite should be crushed and stopped. It never comes across like that.


Works of art can carry meanings and implications way beyond their authors intentions. If someone claims they didn't intend a certain meaning doesn't mean it doesn't convey a certain idea nevertheless. It's called the intentional fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorial_intent).

There are undoudtedly political implications/association detectable in these films. He is either aware of them and consciously created the films that way or he is ignorant to the underlying ideas being conveyed unintentionally which I'd suggest is a much worse position.

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Post #: 274
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:05:40 PM   
film man aidy

 

Posts: 333
Joined: 8/3/2007
Initial thoughts on 'Pros and Cons'

Pros -  SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The superb Batman/Bane punchup half way through. Mirrored the comic book perfectly.
The cameo appearances were great, although I would have liked some finality to the Scarecrow character.
The "Why don't you use your full name?" question to Gordon Levitt. Really made me smile.
Great last couple of scenes. The last one in particular left me salivating for a follow up that's unfortunately not going to happen.
Chase scenes were suitably epic, but was interesting to see Nolan having to rely on more CG than usual with the Bat flying sequences.
Michael Caine - nuff said.

Cons - SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too long i'm afraid. The film's contents just didn't justify 165 odd minutes.
Bane's voice - I don't care what anyone else says, put quite simply, I STRUGGLED TO UNDERSTAND HIM! It was also too metallic/Darth Vader like. Because you can barely see his jaw move as he spoke, it gave the impression of being dubbed at a later date which it probably was. It was almost like someone was doing a commentry narrating on a bluray...
Way too many scenes of people being shepherded around Gotham, on and off of buses, in and out out schools and tunnels. With a bit of harsher editing, this could have taken up some the film's flabby middle act. It even reminded me a bit of all the duller sequences  in Die Hard 3, revolving around the school with lots of characters you couldn't care less about.
Not enough of the fabulous Michael Caine.


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RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:07:27 PM   
burtbondy


Posts: 167
Joined: 16/11/2007
Bane's voice sounded a lot like Alex's principle in A Clockwork Orange. As for the film , I liked it a lot more than the previous two , which i didn't really like at all. I'd say best of the 3.

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Post #: 276
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:08:42 PM   
film man aidy

 

Posts: 333
Joined: 8/3/2007
Did also get a Man of Steel trailer. Looking good, although the teaser was very slight. The Comic-Con trailer, with Russel Crowe's voiceover was far more impressive. Why not just use that?

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Post #: 277
sound even on IMAX tricky at times, just a heads up - 20/7/2012 6:33:44 PM   
mclane1


Posts: 367
Joined: 7/2/2009
i gave it 5 stars and i stand by that its just so solid and entertaining. BUT there were the odd lines from Bane that were very difficult to understand- not that it takes anything away from the movie so dont worry. also i ddint get the Superman teaser! I did get an extended SKYFALL trailer thought that was spot on!
quote:

ORIGINAL: nhassell


quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000


quote:

ORIGINAL: nhassell

Seen it (in IMAX, no less). Perfect ending to what, in my opinion, is the greatest trilogy in the history of film.


What was the sound like? I've heard that IMAX has no problems with understanding dialogue, whereas in other cinemas (I saw it at Odeon Leceister Sq) some of the dialogue is unintelligable.
I could hear pretty much everything fine. I was sitting right in the middle about 15 or so rows back from the front, so not near the speakers or anything. I missed a few of Bane's lines, but nothing important.



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RE: sound even on IMAX tricky at times, just a heads up - 20/7/2012 6:47:56 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
I come to this film as a Nolan fanboy – Inception is one of my favourite films of the decade so far, and I truly love all his work up to now. Which is why the following makes me sad.

Messy, needlessly complex and overstuffed yet also strangely empty, the Dark Knight Rises is the least successful Nolan Batman film and very likely his worst film to date.

While there are moments that remind you of who is behind the camera, the film doesn’t seem to come alive in the way that Begins and TDK did. It is like Nolan had lost all his enthusiasm for the franchise and instead went off and had some fun filming individual sequences, ignoring the numerous script flaws.

I should say that I saw the previous two Nolan Batman films back to back in IMAX on the same night as Rises.

There will be spoilers from here on in so you have been warned.

SPOILERS




I know that this is a common complaint, but the eight year gap where we are told Bruce stopped being Batman after he got home driving down that road on the Pod is hugely disappointing. It means that Wayne only operated on the streets for a year and some change. The epic battle with crime reduced to a curious event in the history of Gotham. It reduces the power of moments such as

“I didn’t thank you”
“And you won’t have to!”

Or

“I think you and I are destined to do this forever”

Hey, guess not Joker! It really is hard to square the circle if you watch The Dark
Knight and 10mins later Rises come on. The actual idea of an eight year gap is a good one – it allows wiggle room for the whole “where is the Joker?” thing and would just as adequately set up the idea of an exhausted and depressed Bruce.

Indeed by the time Rises starts, the so called Dent Act which was brought in to fight crime following his death, is being considered in some circles to be too much. A Batman still wandering the streets would be a healthy reminder about why the Act was brought in, thus fulfilling the role Wayne agreed to.

Imagine fighting crime for eight years, even as the figures are falling and continuing to be hated by everyone? That would turn you into a lonely soul, and also give motivation for billionaire Bruce Wayne to try and do more good in the world.

Instead we have this odd situation where Batman hasn’t existed, and Wayne is barely there for nearly a decade. There was no indication in The Dark Knight that Bruce was going to stop being Batman once he took the fall. In fact his biggest character trait in Begins was a guilt complex over his parent’s death spurring him on to fight crime. That the love of his life dies, and he just sits back feels wrong for the character that has been set up in these movies.

Thankfully Bale plays it somewhat lighter in the first 40 minutes of the film than you suspect given the set up. This is in part to Anne Hathaway who is the bright shining star of Rises. After six hours of the Nolan series I was ready for someone like Selina Kyle – fun and willing to undercut the seriousness of any situation. As Bruce becomes increasingly interested in her, and what exactly she was stealing from Wayne, I was on board the film. But this is also when the bloat began to hit in earnest.

The subplot with Kyle and the billionaire who is so bland and uninteresting I got him confused with his henchman on numerous occasions, starts to put some drag on the film. Why does Bane need him? It is clear Bane and Kyle know each other – could he have not just hired her to get the finger prints and then carry out the attack on the stock exchange? It wouldn’t have taken much to change the construction subplot as well – just have Bane muscle his crew into construction projects or heck just plant bombs under the noses of a complacent Gotham City Police Force. The guy does nothing, adds nothing and isn’t even a useful McGuffin like the Chinese banker in
TDK.

People are praising Michael Caine, and while he gives a good performance, Alfred is all over the place in this film. In Begins he was all about protecting the Wayne legacy and ensuring that Bruce lived up to his father’s name and ideals. In the Dark Knight he was the voice expressing why Wayne had to keep fighting, despite the loss of Rachel. Now in Rises we are told he never wanted Bruce to come back, and had hoped in the seven years he vanished in Begins, that he would have settled down?

The deuce? Make up your mind Alfred! I also didn’t buy that he would leave Wayne and never return. These guys fell out, but they would have rebuilt that relationship. Too much water under the bridge.

Elsewhere, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, playing Gotham cop John Blake, is doing some digging about gangs living in the sewers under the city. A masked man is recruiting the abandoned of the city and putting them to work in a subplot which reminded me of the 1990 movie Teenage Ninja Turtles. For some reason, Matthew Mordine’s deputy Commissioner dismisses Blake’s claims as fantasy. I sat there thinking…what? If Mordine had been in the police force for decades then surely compared to ninjas using a water vapour machine to infect the people of Gotham with a fear toxin, or a guy dressed as clown blowing up hospitals, the idea of an underground base of soldiers would seem somewhat reasonable.

Gordon investigates but gets caught by Bane who finds a speech he had written revealing the truth of Harvey Dent. This was such a laboured way to get Bane to spill the beans to the people of Gotham – was there literally no better idea than that?

While all these cogs are moving Wayne puts back on the mask and following an attack on the stock exchange pursues Bane and his team on bikes. Mordine’s dumb as dishwasher character orders everyone to pursue Batman and not even a couple of cars go after the guys who just shot up and killed a lot of people in the centre of Gotham. This is nonsense of the highest order.

The attack on the stock exchange helps Bane to wipe Wayne enterprises of all its money, making Bruce broke. This is mostly played for laughs as he is kicked out of a board meeting, the lights on Wayne manor go out and so on. He is more than happy to hand over the company, and the energy generator to a woman named Miranda Tate, whom he also takes a romantic interest in. I suppose this was meant to represent the further destruction of Wayne, but really, wealth has never been a big part of his life. The only importance he ever attached to it was in relation to protecting the Wayne family name.

Eventually Batman goes to confront Bane by…walking through the front door? He allows himself to be tricked by Catwoman and saunters into the middle of the brightly lit HQ of the bad guy and his army. What was his plan even if Kyle hadn’t betrayed him? This isn’t the resourceful Batman we know and love – he has been replaced by someone far dumber. Anyway in a fight which is sort of ok – I kept wondering why Bats wouldn’t be trying his best to get that mask off of Bane – Bane does the one thing his character is known for. But it is sort of just there.

The central McGuffin is a device built by Wayne Enterprise to provide clean energy for the city, but which gets distorted by Bane who uses it as a tool to unleash his army onto the streets. Sound familiar? It isn’t Rises fault that the Avengers did this already, but it does sort of make it feel like a bit “been there, done that” subplot. Even the opening sequence is about the bad guy kidnapping the key scientist to the project felt oddly similar.

To get people’s attention Bane destroys the football stadium in the scene we have all seen in the trailers. That is about as big as the film gets by the way – the hospital explosion in TDK is far more effective, and impressive. What is Bane’s plan? Why it is to detonate a bomb derived from the energy source which Wayne was intending to use for his renewables project. It is set to go off in three months.

In front of the world Bane kills the one man who could defuse it - some Russian guy who is at the centre of an impressive sequence at the start of the film but literally offers nothing else afterwards. This would have been just as effective if it were Fox who was kidnapped at the start, and then gets shot in Gotham stadium. It would have raised the stakes and jolted the audience.

Bane further destroys all the access points in and out of the city and orders the US military to stay away, and that no one in Gotham would be allowed to leave either. His strategy as explained to Wayne is fulfilling the work of Ra’s Al Ghul and making Gotham suffer before ultimate destruction. His three month stay of execution is to give the citizens a hope they will never be able to claim. Underneath Bane’s feet is the Gotham police department, led down into the sewers as a trap. An injured Gordon, Blake and Mordine along with a few others survive up surface.

They literally have a ticking time bomb with three months to go. Why three months?
There is a famous saying that the only thing separating civilisation and anarchy is three square meals. Could they not have done it for a month? Heck they are an off-shoot of the League of Shadows – how about throwing some more of that fear toxin about to juice things up? I will come back to this issue in a moment.

Bane recruits an army of prisoners and I presume disgruntled Gotham citizens and they go off and attack the rich people because boo rich people. But given it is the bad guys who are doing it, you wonder who in the 99% movement Nolan supported? What political subtext exists is muddled in a way which is a stark contrast to that of TDK.

Bane also reveals the contents of Gordon’s letter to everyone, but I have to wonder why anyone would even believe him? He had a handwritten letter, which no one would actually be able to prove who it came from. But oh well…

Watching from afar is Wayne who, with a broken back, lies at the bottom of a pit in India. His recovery process basically involves a prisoner popping his back bone back in, and then lots and lots of push ups. Problem solved. And then he has to climb out of a hole only one person has ever done before!

We are meant to see that these events last over a three month period but boy you sure as heck couldn’t tell. The police officers, entombed under Gotham, get food and besides a little dirt seem a-ok. Plenty of tubby ones sitting around there. Gordon and co all pretty much look and dress the same as they did before the attack. We never really see the average Gotham citizen and whether it is a struggle to survive. Our heroes pretty much walk around the city in broad daylight no problem. Batman Begins showed more suffering to be honest.

This undercuts the film – if I am not feeling that the city is as broken as Wayne’s back then the stakes aren’t as high. The only time the movie hints at a crazy upside down world is at the courthouse where Scarcrow holds court sentencing people to death or exile, which both amount to the same thing. High up on a lectern, surrounded by books, and with a suit that is falling apart, this is the one little taste we get of what should have been a heightened world.

HOWEVER I still think even if Ledger was with us, he wouldn’t be in this film. The Joker is simply too powerful a character and would displace Bane as the lead big bad. If Ledger was here, I suspect if they did use him, the movie would be radically different.

In many ways the three month thing reminded me of 30 Days of Night where we were supposed to believe that the townspeople who survived the attack were suffering, when it looked like all they did was grow beards. They don’t even grow beards here.

So of course Wayne becomes the second person to climb out of the pit and he heads back to Gotham with JUST ONE DAY BEFORE THE BOMB GOES OFF. What an amazing piece of luck.

Batman gathers everyone together, rescues the police and takes the fight to Bane. This consists of a few hundred cops running up to a few hundred of Bane’s forces and having an almighty fist fight.

Blake is ordered to get as many citizens out of the city before the bomb goes off.
What this in the end consists of is a school bus of orphans. Remember those big crowd scenes in TDK. Nothing like that in Rises. No sense of scale, no sense of what the wider population are doing.

Batman and Bane go for it in round two, and in typical Rocky style Bats gets the upper hand…until gasp! Is it revealed that Tate is Liam Nesson’s daughter and she is the one, not Bane, who got out of the pit. A betrayal like that is only as good as the prior set up, and really we never got to know Tate/Talia and as such it fell flat.

As Talia goes off with the bomb ticking down to the final minutes, Bane is left with Batman and you think another fight is about to break out until he is blown up by Catwoman on the Batpod who then makes a quip about the “no gun” policy to Wayne.

So Bane, who was built up as a feared warrior, someone who destroyed Batman and conquered a city, is taken out in most anti-climactic way possible and becomes a punch line. It undermines him as a character and re-watches will shift my perception of him as a threat.

At least if you are going to kill him like that, have it be Alfred who comes back with a shotgun or something. One last moment for mending the bridge between the two men. Might have been manipulative, but you know, it would have been a chance for the showman within Nolan to emerge.

A chase scene ensues involving Batman and his Batwing chasing down Tate and the bomb. The sequence is fun, but again comparisons to TDK abound. I think because it didn’t feel like the bad guys had the upper hand, I wasn’t too engaged in the action. Batman and Catwoman tear through the convoy.

Tate then crashes the lorry with the bomb, and dies the same way as her father. The bomb is still going and so of course Batman drags it away on the Batwing, where it is detonated some miles out from the city, thus ensuring that the good people of Gotham aren’t burned to death, but may face major radiation issues in the coming months and decades.

The public finally are seen, coming out of their homes, looking pretty normal and doing just fine. I mean, come on – surely we should have seen some form of lower society form. Finite resources being fought for by rival gangs and so on. I want to see that film!

With Batman/Wayne dead the empire is divided up. In a groan inducing moment we find out Blake’s real name, which frankly wasn’t needed. Alfred sits in a café, and we focus on his face as he smiles and I wish, I so wish, that we had left the film on that moment.

The audience knows what it means. But nope got to spell it out, so there is Bruce, who didn’t die saving the city, living what looks like a normal life. I don’t have problems with this; but Nolan should have trusted Caines performance to tell the audience what he was looking at, plus it would have been a fine final magic trick from the director to the audience and led to huge debates.

The final shots are Joseph Gordon-Levitt in the Batcave and now I get sad that we won’t see that movie being made…or maybe we will?

So that is a summary of my disappointments with the film – but let’s get more positive.
I liked the theme of the film – about the need for a clean slate. Wayne wants another life but cannot escape the confines of his family/Batman. Alfred wants out from the cycle of tragedy which underpins the Waynes. Catwoman wants her sins erased. Gordon wants the guilt which tore up his family lifted. Blake is struggling to balance the need for justice with the politics of policing. Everyone wants something new.

I liked most of the performances – Hathaway as mentioned was a standout. I really liked Bane – no, he isn’t Joker, but he had a certain swagger about him, and combined with what turned out to be a really interesting choice of voice, really helped Hardy to command the screen. Couldn’t help but notice his background in this film was pretty much the same one he had in Star Trek. I just wish they would have given him a bit more to do. He is undermined at the end.

Jospeh Gordon-Levitt is good as well – a good kid who just wants to do the right thing. Again I wish that he had more to do. He is thrown to the side in the final act.

In the end, this is Bale’s film – I liked him in this a lot more than TDK where he really did embrace the broody side. He is often bemused here, and is reaching out to people. Catwoman really helps the character come out of his shell. Bale has done a stand up job in the role and is nowhere near as miserable as some people would have you believe. Dry yes, but not joyless.

Individual sequences also work well. The opening is a truly great Bond moment, and the action is well directed.

But there is just so much bloat. The billionaire, the congressman, Juno Temple, Mordine, whose desertion and return to the police ranks for the final battle don’t mean a damn thing. Maybe if the police were getting beaten and from another corner you saw him leading normal people into battle it might have been better. But in the movie he is dumb and useless and does nothing useful ever.

I do think the movie needed to be longer, but I also think it needed to be better written. It is overcooked but stretched far too thin.

For all that, The Dark Knight Rises is watchable, and you will likely be entertained.
But it simply doesn’t hold a torch to Begins or TDK, let alone the other Nolan films.

Three stars.




< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 20/7/2012 10:18:16 PM >


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Post #: 279
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 6:58:50 PM   
SWOTBM


Posts: 1998
Joined: 6/5/2007
SPOILERS FOR THE DARK KNIGHT RISES


I wouldn't say it was a massive disappointment, but as the review notes, it was always going to be tough to top TDK. I really struggled to hear what Bane was saying half the time and it just seemed like a big guy mumbling his way through the film (not quite as bad a growling his way through a film though ). As a villain Bane was imposing and he was an altogether different type of adversary. But I felt the film didn't exploit the physical contest between them, apart from the two set-pieces.

This contests themselves were particularly disappointing, especially with the benefit of reading the Knightfall saga. Bane comprehensively thrashes Batman in the sewers, but in their rematch (I believe the TV said the siege had been going on for 54 days?) Batman not only manages to hold his own but beat him? I found that hard to believe. The whole Gotham under siege/NML felt forced and just a way to shoe-horn in the Batman's recovery.

I didn't like the way Blake figured out BW=Batman, if everyone could solve the mystery that easily then it's not really a mystery. As a character Blake worked pretty well and I have no problem with the whole passing of the cape and cowl. But if they knew this from the outset (ie before Batman Begins), why not introduce the character at the very start? That would have given them ample time to build up the character (like with Fox, Gordon). Actually, speaking of Fox, did he die in the end? I remember him climbing up the ladder but I don't recall seeing him afterwards. That kinda undermines my point about Blake though, oh well

I never thought about the end being a figment of Alfred's imagination. It's an interesting theory, but I don't buy it. For the reasons people have already discussed and I honestly don't think DC would let Bruce Wayne get killed off in the movies. It would have worked better if they have cut that scene, or had the guy just be the same random guy Alfred saw earlier on. That would definitely have given some closure to the trilogy, but might be a bit too depressing for some.

Despite all that, I still think it is a great film. Bale put in the best performance of the series, Caine got some good scenes and Oldman was immense as always. I was pretty meh about Catwoman, Hathaway did a good job. But for the sake of the story, it would have been better if there was a protector of Gotham who stepped into Batman's shoes whilst he was away. I thought I was going to be Blake, but obviously not. The soundtrack was beautiful and I loved action sequences.

I don't get the deal about the political implications/associations. So what if there are? That line of thinking takes a rather patronising view of the audience; passive sheep taking everything they see as gospel. They audience, or at least I do, will make their own mind up of any themes which exist in the film/book/tv shows/video games etc.

Overall, not as good as the TDK (and yes, it should be judged against the rest of the films in the trilogy imo) but still a good attempt at trying to top what I view as the best (actually second best now, I did like the Avengers ) superhero film.

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Post #: 280
RE: sound even on IMAX tricky at times, just a heads up - 20/7/2012 7:01:50 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54577
Joined: 1/10/2005
Re Rgirvan's review. I echo the bafflement in some of this. I mean, apart from the time period for Wayne to learn the true way, there was no other reason for the time period for the bomb. The court scenes hardly fitted what Bane wanted to do - what 'ordinary' citizens (the ones who apparently ripped the rich apartments apart for the hell of it?) suddenly become so nuts it's Scarecrow up there? No - the 'citizens' there had to be the crims. In which case, why keep wittering on about destroying Gotham. That was nonsense.

Me? I didn't think much of Bale in the film and that's been a problem throughout. The reason I probably liked the film a little more than you was so much of it wasn't him - spending time with JGL and Oldman in Gotham was far more enjoyable. Hathaway was much better than the trailers had led you to expect, JGL was great. And, like you, I was really disappointed by Ben Mendelsohn - he was so good in Animal Kingdom, and there was just nothing there in this.

Some of the dialogue was just so leaden though - the snapy one-liners at the Bane/Bats battle in the daylight? Yikes - Stan Lee could write better


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ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 281
RE: sound even on IMAX tricky at times, just a heads up - 20/7/2012 7:38:32 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006
quote:

Stan Lee could write better



To paraphrase Dave Sim, in reference to the famous 'Marvel Method', Stan Lee is such a great writer that the artists drew the stories and Stan wrote them *afterwards*, and they still rocked!



As a fan of both Batman (which is bit like saying one is a fan of boobs or oxygen, but still...) and Nolan, I think S P O I L E R S

I can understand why some people didn't like the ending (it's as if Jesus in the Last Temptation of Christ had chosen hoes over Saving Mankind!



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Post #: 282
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:41:03 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM


This contests themselves were particularly disappointing, especially with the benefit of reading the Knightfall saga. Bane comprehensively thrashes Batman in the sewers, but in their rematch (I believe the TV said the siege had been going on for 54 days?) Batman not only manages to hold his own but beat him? I found that hard to believe.



Batman was only able to beat Bane because the guy in the prison explains about his mask being connected to anaesthetic, so Batman knew to try and knock the tubes out. If he hadn't had this information, then it's unlikely that he would have tried to punch a metal mask in the rematch, meaning that the result would have been the same as their first fight.


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Post #: 283
RE: - 20/7/2012 7:42:04 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
What a horrible post.

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Post #: 284
RE: RE: - 20/7/2012 7:43:14 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

What a horrible post.


Seconded. Utterly despicable bullshit, trying to twist a tragedy to suit musicals dislike of the film.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 285
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:43:25 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM


This contests themselves were particularly disappointing, especially with the benefit of reading the Knightfall saga. Bane comprehensively thrashes Batman in the sewers, but in their rematch (I believe the TV said the siege had been going on for 54 days?) Batman not only manages to hold his own but beat him? I found that hard to believe.



Batman was only able to beat Bane because the guy in the prison explains about his mask being connected to anaesthetic, so Batman knew to try and knock the tubes out. If he hadn't had this information, then it's unlikely that he would have tried to punch a metal mask in the rematch, meaning that the result would have been the same as their first fight.




Yet this was hardly any secret knowledge - the CIA guy knew about it as well. Also it is a mask for breathing. Even if I didn't know the details I could guess it might be a weak spot.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 286
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:48:43 PM   
SWOTBM


Posts: 1998
Joined: 6/5/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM


This contests themselves were particularly disappointing, especially with the benefit of reading the Knightfall saga. Bane comprehensively thrashes Batman in the sewers, but in their rematch (I believe the TV said the siege had been going on for 54 days?) Batman not only manages to hold his own but beat him? I found that hard to believe.



Batman was only able to beat Bane because the guy in the prison explains about his mask being connected to anaesthetic, so Batman knew to try and knock the tubes out. If he hadn't had this information, then it's unlikely that he would have tried to punch a metal mask in the rematch, meaning that the result would have been the same as their first fight.




Yet this was hardly any secret knowledge - the CIA guy knew about it as well. Also it is a mask for breathing. Even if I didn't know the details I could guess it might be a weak spot.


Exactly. Another example of dumbing down of Batman.

Plus he would have been weaker (3 months out to recover in a prison with next to no medical/training facilities?) in the rematch which made it all the more unbelieveable.

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(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 287
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:53:42 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54577
Joined: 1/10/2005
Musicals - feel free to discuss that in the News thread. If you troll this thread like that again, it may be you that's removed not just the post.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to SWOTBM)
Post #: 288
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:54:41 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006



The CIA guy just knew Bane wore a mask. It's hardly obvious it's primarily an aid to breathing, given that it's deliberately designed to be bad ass and scary. Do the CIA even know Bane's origin story? And it's not like there's big gas tanks on the back of Bane that would lead to people to guess that he was breathing in painkilling gas. Bane, to a casual observer, is just a scary guy in a scary outfit.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 289
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:56:47 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy




The CIA guy just knew Bane wore a mask. It's hardly obvious it's primarily an aid to breathing, given that it's deliberately designed to be bad ass and scary. Do the CIA even know Bane's origin story? And it's not like there's big gas tanks on the back of Bane that would lead to people to guess that he was breathing in painkilling gas. Bane, to a casual observer, is just a scary guy in a scary outfit.


The CIA guy asked if it would hurt if he took it off - the inference being he knew it was a breathing tool.

And you can see the mechanics of the mask as it works - Batman isn't an idiot. Or at least he shouldn't be. Wayne had plenty of info on Bane - he seemed to be well known.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 290
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 7:59:03 PM   
RevolloveR

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 2/5/2007
Reference to 'giant alligators' in the sewer system = Croc for any future continuation?

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 291
RE: sound even on IMAX tricky at times, just a heads up - 20/7/2012 8:02:54 PM   
Greggieboy

 

Posts: 240
Joined: 28/4/2006
I actually enjoyed this more than 'The Dark Knight' which I have always had a lot of problems with.

However it is overlong, some the plot/ plot twists are annoyingly dumb. But the action and fight sequences are amazing, Micheal Caine is excellent.

Did the film really need Catwoman? I thought there was going to be a bit of backstory to her but it never appeared. People cant see through Batmans mask but everyone in Gotham could tell she was Selina Kyle.

2 nice cameos as well.

Still think you need proffesional cave explorers to get Christopher Nolans head out of his own ass though

_____________________________

Last Few Films Seen:Captain America;77/100 Harry Potter 7b; 85/100 Super 8; 74/100 X Men;First Class;76/100Fututre Films: Cowboys & Aliens, ROTPOTA, Cars 2, , Bridesmaids (at some point)

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 292
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:03:23 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SWOTBM


This contests themselves were particularly disappointing, especially with the benefit of reading the Knightfall saga. Bane comprehensively thrashes Batman in the sewers, but in their rematch (I believe the TV said the siege had been going on for 54 days?) Batman not only manages to hold his own but beat him? I found that hard to believe.



Batman was only able to beat Bane because the guy in the prison explains about his mask being connected to anaesthetic, so Batman knew to try and knock the tubes out. If he hadn't had this information, then it's unlikely that he would have tried to punch a metal mask in the rematch, meaning that the result would have been the same as their first fight.




Yet this was hardly any secret knowledge - the CIA guy knew about it as well. Also it is a mask for breathing. Even if I didn't know the details I could guess it might be a weak spot.


Exactly. Another example of dumbing down of Batman.

Plus he would have been weaker (3 months out to recover in a prison with next to no medical/training facilities?) in the rematch which made it all the more unbelieveable.



Come on, would a viewer who had the knowledge Batman did of Bane in their first fight REALLY have been thinking something along the lines of "punch the guy in his scary metal mask! it's bound to be a weak spot!"? Bane's appearances in the movie to that point surely suggested it was more likely that he wore the mask as a scary disguise (not exactly a lot of scenes of Bane wheezing with breathing problems!).

It seems like an obvious weak point because we (the well informed audience) knows that Bane's connected to gas. But the costume designer quite deliberately avoided obvious gas tanks. And what about the scene where Bane's topless with Commissioner Gordon (sounds like slash fiction.. ? It's hardly obvious to characters around Bane that he has a weak spot on the mask.

And, given how close the actual fight still is, I think Nolan makes it obvious that Batman would have had his ass handed to him if he'd just tried to have a standard fist fight with Bane again.

(in reply to SWOTBM)
Post #: 293
RE: sound even on IMAX tricky at times, just a heads up - 20/7/2012 8:04:19 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54577
Joined: 1/10/2005
Batman relying on someone morally ambiguous and giving the closure of the character - of course it needed Catwoman (or similar). 

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Greggieboy)
Post #: 294
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:06:14 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
We know that a) the CIA causally know that the mask was breathing piece and b) Wayne had access to records about Bane.

Not to mention he sounds like he struggles to breath when he talks.

But hey this goes back to my point in the review - if Bats didn't know this, then maybe he shouldn't have barged right into the HQ to take him on. It is dumb writing.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 295
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:10:02 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8197
Joined: 31/7/2008
**SPOILERS**

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
But hey this goes back to my point in the review - if Bats didn't know this, then maybe he shouldn't have barged right into the HQ to take him on. It is dumb writing.


Isn't this addressed slightly by the conversation between Wayne and Alfred before all that? Not very satisfactorily I grant you, but there's a lot of Alfred trying to impress upon him that Bane is a dangerous opponent and Wayne asserting that he always rises to the challenge (if you'll excuse the pun?).

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 296
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:12:28 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

**SPOILERS**

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
But hey this goes back to my point in the review - if Bats didn't know this, then maybe he shouldn't have barged right into the HQ to take him on. It is dumb writing.


Isn't this addressed slightly by the conversation between Wayne and Alfred before all that? Not very satisfactorily I grant you, but there's a lot of Alfred trying to impress upon him that Bane is a dangerous opponent and Wayne asserting that he always rises to the challenge (if you'll excuse the pun?).


Sure, but was that his plan? To just go in and fight and army by himself and then punch Bane? Bats is usually smart than that. You know - if he just got Catwoman to point on a map where the base was he could likely have figured out what they were trying to steal.

It is done this way because they needed Bane to do what Bane does in the shortest possible time and at the cost of storytelling.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 297
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:14:59 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy




The CIA guy just knew Bane wore a mask. It's hardly obvious it's primarily an aid to breathing, given that it's deliberately designed to be bad ass and scary. Do the CIA even know Bane's origin story? And it's not like there's big gas tanks on the back of Bane that would lead to people to guess that he was breathing in painkilling gas. Bane, to a casual observer, is just a scary guy in a scary outfit.


The CIA guy asked if it would hurt if he took it off - the inference being he knew it was a breathing tool.

And you can see the mechanics of the mask as it works - Batman isn't an idiot. Or at least he shouldn't be. Wayne had plenty of info on Bane - he seemed to be well known.


It's not necessarily an inference that he knew it was for breathing problems . Threatening to tear the mask of "the masked man" in the context of aggressive interrogation is hardly a proof that the CIA knew it was for breathing problems (which it's not, anyway). Aside from which Bane is playing possum when the CIA guy sees him up close, whereas Batman is literally fighting for his life in his first fight for Bane, hardly conducive to ruminations on whether Bane is connected to some kind of anaesthetic gas system for an injury we can't and that (to riot in understatement) hardly seems to be curbing his physical movement.

Did Batman really have great info on Bane? Didn't the Batcomputer just come back with general stuff on him being a mercenary (with nothing about the league of shadows)? And you'll need to elaborate on what you mean by the mechanics working - the mask is fixed metal, it's not like we see movements obviously suggestive of gas being pumped in from somewhere.






(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 298
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:21:41 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy




The CIA guy just knew Bane wore a mask. It's hardly obvious it's primarily an aid to breathing, given that it's deliberately designed to be bad ass and scary. Do the CIA even know Bane's origin story? And it's not like there's big gas tanks on the back of Bane that would lead to people to guess that he was breathing in painkilling gas. Bane, to a casual observer, is just a scary guy in a scary outfit.


The CIA guy asked if it would hurt if he took it off - the inference being he knew it was a breathing tool.

And you can see the mechanics of the mask as it works - Batman isn't an idiot. Or at least he shouldn't be. Wayne had plenty of info on Bane - he seemed to be well known.


It's not necessarily an inference that he knew it was for breathing problems . Threatening to tear the mask of "the masked man" in the context of aggressive interrogation is hardly a proof that the CIA knew it was for breathing problems (which it's not, anyway). Aside from which Bane is playing possum when the CIA guy sees him up close, whereas Batman is literally fighting for his life in his first fight for Bane, hardly conducive to ruminations on whether Bane is connected to some kind of anaesthetic gas system for an injury we can't and that (to riot in understatement) hardly seems to be curbing his physical movement.

Did Batman really have great info on Bane? Didn't the Batcomputer just come back with general stuff on him being a mercenary (with nothing about the league of shadows)? And you'll need to elaborate on what you mean by the mechanics working - the mask is fixed metal, it's not like we see movements obviously suggestive of gas being pumped in from somewhere.








It is Alfred who tells Wayne that Bane was connected to the LoS - so they do have quite a bit of detail. I am sure - "always wears mask" is in there.

As for the mechanics - it isn't a single piece - wires pop out of it - the ones Talia puts back in at the end for example.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 299
RE: The Dark Knight Rises - 20/7/2012 8:21:59 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

We know that a) the CIA causally know that the mask was breathing piece and b) Wayne had access to records about Bane.

Not to mention he sounds like he struggles to breath when he talks.

But hey this goes back to my point in the review - if Bats didn't know this, then maybe he shouldn't have barged right into the HQ to take him on. It is dumb writing.



I disagree that Bane sounds like he struggles to breathe. His voice is scary and sardonic - a tad droll in places - not Darth Vader after 40 B & H. Remember his "do you feel like you're in charge"? to the banker's sidekick? For most of the movie Bane is about brutal efficiency - he doesn't "struggle" to do anything.

And if, as far as Batman is concerned, Bane is just a wheezy mercenary (i.e. not exactly up there with the Joker, Ra's as Ghul and others he's defeated), then why would he be afraid of walking into a straight fist fight? Aside from which he does so because he trust Selina (admittedly a mistake, but its' one of the story's strengths that he shows the conflicts between fallible human Bruce Wayne and transcendent Batman)


(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 300
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