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Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:01:08 PM   
Rgirvan44


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From: Punishment Park
So with all the Comic Con announcements coming out I am not feeling all that excited for the post Avengers Marvel universe and I think some of it might have to do with a creeping fatigue about the whole thing.

The Avengers was a great cap to a middling series of films, but you came out of the cinema feeling the whole experiment was successful. Now we have Iron Man 3, Thor 2 next yet. Captain America 2 and Guardians of the Galaxy in 2014 and Ant-Man somewhere in there as well.

So it will have been six years in 2013 since the release of Iron Man. In that time we will have had Iron Man appear in 4 films, and Loki and Thor appear in 3. I persume that Avengers 2 will be 2015 which means in 7 years Iron Man will have appeared at least 5 times.

Do you think this will lead to burnout? That these characters and the films won't be so special if it feels like they are churning them out? What happens when the new kid appears on the block? Should Marvel be spacing these films out a little more?

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 15/7/2012 7:06:21 PM >


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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:04:32 PM   
paul_ie86


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Yes.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:05:17 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54673
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I think Marvel's real problem has been poor director/writer choices. Maybe I'd feel more enthused if their back catalogue wasn't so poor - but when they've chosen better behind the camera the films have been better.

If they get that right I see less of a problem with new product. If they're all going to be Captain Americas? They're in cloud cuckoo land.


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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:05:22 PM   
Spaldron


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There's definitely going to come a point of over-saturation but judging by the success of Avengers we haven't quite reached it yet. As long as every 12 year old wants to drag his/her parents to see the latest CGI fest then the Marvel films will always turn a profit.

EDIT: Kenneth Branagh is hardly a poor director, neither is Shane Black.

< Message edited by Spaldron -- 15/7/2012 7:07:01 PM >


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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:08:24 PM   
Toast


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I was burnt out on those kinds of movies prior to the release of the first Iron Man movie.

So.... yes? Hopefully...

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:09:22 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8324
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They'll be fine as long as they keep making the films decent (as far as superhero stuff goes). Even the weaker films of the series, introducing unfamiliar (to the average person) characters have been wildly successful. As for spacing them out, I think keeping the momentum going is actually helping them, as it feels almost like a series rather than a few interlinked films. A couple of duds would derail the whole thing though.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:18:04 PM   
paul_ie86


Posts: 11422
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

There's definitely going to come a point of over-saturation but judging by the success of Avengers we haven't quite reached it yet. As long as every 12 year old wants to drag his/her parents to see the latest CGI fest then the Marvel films will always turn a profit.

EDIT: Kenneth Branagh is hardly a poor director, neither is Shane Black.


But are they the right choices for the material? Which is what I assume elab meant.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:18:47 PM   
UTB


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The speed in which these things are appearing is certainly removing the 'wow' factor for me. It'll end up feeling like a massive TV series.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:29:10 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8324
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

The speed in which these things are appearing is certainly removing the 'wow' factor for me. It'll end up feeling like a massive TV series.


I suppose it depends really. If they only released one a year, with the number of characters it would drag it out forever which I think would increase the chances of people getting bored. They are interlinked, but also different stories - there'll still be 5 years between the first Iron Man film and the 3rd one for instance, which is no different to the release habits of Harry Potter etc. If you had to wait 8 or 9 years for the resolution of that arc (since IM3 is the last RDJ is currently signed for) I probably wouldn't care as much.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:30:50 PM   
UTB


Posts: 9993
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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

The speed in which these things are appearing is certainly removing the 'wow' factor for me. It'll end up feeling like a massive TV series.


I suppose it depends really. If they only released one a year, with the number of characters it would drag it out forever which I think would increase the chances of people getting bored. They are interlinked, but also different stories - there'll still be 5 years between the first Iron Man film and the 3rd one for instance, which is no different to the release habits of Harry Potter etc. If you had to wait 8 or 9 years for the resolution of that arc (since IM3 is the last RDJ is currently signed for) I probably wouldn't care as much.


True, but at least with Harry Potter you knew there was an end in sight

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:31:46 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54673
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

EDIT: Kenneth Branagh is hardly a poor director, neither is Shane Black.


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

but when they've chosen better behind the camera the films have been better.



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:32:05 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8324
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

The speed in which these things are appearing is certainly removing the 'wow' factor for me. It'll end up feeling like a massive TV series.


I suppose it depends really. If they only released one a year, with the number of characters it would drag it out forever which I think would increase the chances of people getting bored. They are interlinked, but also different stories - there'll still be 5 years between the first Iron Man film and the 3rd one for instance, which is no different to the release habits of Harry Potter etc. If you had to wait 8 or 9 years for the resolution of that arc (since IM3 is the last RDJ is currently signed for) I probably wouldn't care as much.


True, but at least with Harry Potter you knew there was an end in sight


For a long while I wasn't so sure

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Post #: 12
RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:39:00 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18336
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


For a long while I wasn't so sure



I'm waiting for the spin off set in " The World of Harry Potter".

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:41:13 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54673
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I should add - the raccoon with the gun one is one of these isn't it? That I'll probably go and see 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 14
RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:41:33 PM   
Sutty


Posts: 3552
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From: the front row
I don't think Marvel are burning out. It's supply and demand. Make hay while the sun shines.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:43:13 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18336
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I should add - the raccoon with the gun one is one of these isn't it? That I'll probably go and see 



Guardian's of the Galaxy with Rocket Racoon.



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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:44:32 PM   
paul_ie86


Posts: 11422
Joined: 4/1/2007
From: Chelsea Hotel #2

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

EDIT: Kenneth Branagh is hardly a poor director, neither is Shane Black.


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

but when they've chosen better behind the camera the films have been better.




I missed that too.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:45:50 PM   
paul_ie86


Posts: 11422
Joined: 4/1/2007
From: Chelsea Hotel #2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty

I don't think Marvel are burning out. It's supply and demand. Make hay while the sun shines.


I think the question is that whether the public are burning out on Marvel, rather than Marvel burning out.

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Post #: 18
RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:48:53 PM   
clownfoot


Posts: 7934
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

So with all the Comic Con announcements coming out I am not feeling all that excited for the post Avengers Marvel universe and I think some of it might have to do with a creeping fatigue about the whole thing.

The Avengers was a great cap to a middling series of films, but you came out of the cinema feeling the whole experiment was successful. Now we have Iron Man 3, Thor 2 next yet. Captain America 2 and Guardians of the Galaxy in 2014 and Ant-Man somewhere in there as well.

So it will have been six years in 2013 since the release of Iron Man. In that time we will have had Iron Man appear in 4 films, and Loki and Thor appear in 3. I persume that Avengers 2 will be 2015 which means in 7 years Iron Man will have appeared at least 5 times.

Do you think this will lead to burnout? That these characters and the films won't be so special if it feels like they are churning them out? What happens when the new kid appears on the block? Should Marvel be spacing these films out a little more?


Rather have all of that than DC make Krypto the Wonderdog...

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:48:54 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54673
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: paul_ie86


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

EDIT: Kenneth Branagh is hardly a poor director, neither is Shane Black.


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

but when they've chosen better behind the camera the films have been better.




I missed that too.


This is why I've helpfully put it in bold and larger text.

Although a) I've thought very little on Iron Man so far and b) I'm not really getting the credentials of the other writer for part 3 given he wrote the most shitty superhero piece of shit ever to vomit on TV and pretty much nothing else, I'd consider giving it a chance to see what Black's done with it and the woeful Favreau is gone. He is a prime example of what, IMO, was the problem.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 15/7/2012 7:49:37 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 20
RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:49:13 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
The Potter thing is interesting because as has been mentioned we knew there was going to be an end.

Where is the end here? Marvel Studios only have one purpose - to make Marvel movies. So lets say RDJ hangs up his spurs with Avengers 2 in 2015 (after being given a huge payout) what happens? Do Marvel reboot Iron Man and start the whole thing again? Do they recast? What if the public rejects the new guy and how would that affect the interconnected things.

There are pluses and minues to the Marvelverse. One of them is that because of the interconnection they can only move forward. Superman Returns not doing well didn't affect The Dark Knight, but an Iron Man 4 not doing well doesn't just affect that movie, it affects all the other ones as well.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:50:12 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: paul_ie86


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty

I don't think Marvel are burning out. It's supply and demand. Make hay while the sun shines.


I think the question is that whether the public are burning out on Marvel, rather than Marvel burning out.


I mean, clearly they aren't this year with the Avengers doing so well. But at some point the swing is going to go the other way.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:50:30 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54673
Joined: 1/10/2005
Perhaps their core problem is they seem to be a profit generating org rather than a creative one?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 23
RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 7:52:58 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
It was interesting look at the websites how the Iron Man 3 panel got shunted to the side while everyone talked about this Phase 2. Is the idea becoming bigger than the films?

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 8:01:40 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
We talked a bit about this on twitter last night, but to reiterate my opinion: I think they're alright until Downey Jr. steps down. In my opinion the first hurdle was Iron Man 2, which is where it'd could have all fallen apart. The Avengers was the second hurdle, and that turned out better than anyone imagined. I think it's plain sailing 'til Downey Jr. goes, and then, well, I don't know.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 8:05:19 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
It was interesting look at the websites how the Iron Man 3 panel got shunted to the side while everyone talked about this Phase 2. Is the idea becoming bigger than the films?


The idea *is* the films tho, I don't see why they ought be separated for this kind of discussion. I do think there's a feel of building towards something bigger than the individual parts, but I don't have an issue with that because it worked so well with Phase 1. I do get a lot out of the individual parts too, but the bigger picture is a genuinely exciting prospect, especially in as well-trodden an area as the Hollywood blockbuster.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 8:06:08 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8324
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: paul_ie86


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty

I don't think Marvel are burning out. It's supply and demand. Make hay while the sun shines.


I think the question is that whether the public are burning out on Marvel, rather than Marvel burning out.


I mean, clearly they aren't this year with the Avengers doing so well. But at some point the swing is going to go the other way.


Only if they keep trotting out films at the level of Captain America or IM2 though, as elab mentioned. As long as they keep making films better than those two, I can't see people giving up on it because, let's face it, many people who don't go the movies regularly will go to see those kind of movies.

I am really interested to see what they do when RDJ's, Chris Evans' etc. deals are all done if those actors decide to move on (as I suspect they will). Part of me hopes they leave it at that (will never happen if the films are still making a boatload of cash), move on to other characters in the Marvel stable (there's certainly plenty of those) or just reboot the whole thing again (which I would greet with a huge amount of eye-rolling). I guess it's something they're already working on, but since they're working on a fairly truncated timescale I would have thought they would have to have a reasonably clear plan in place.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 8:08:41 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
Perhaps their core problem is they seem to be a profit generating org rather than a creative one?


Anyone familiar with Marvel's business record will be aware of how they aint particularly good with money! I don't understand tho, are you suggesting the two are mutually exclusive? From a creative standing I thought The Avengers was a great success. As I've said in a previous comment, what Marvel are doing with the blockbuster form is genuinely innovative, I don't see how we can throw accusations of anti-creativity at them.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 8:09:37 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19053
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
It was interesting look at the websites how the Iron Man 3 panel got shunted to the side while everyone talked about this Phase 2. Is the idea becoming bigger than the films?


The idea *is* the films tho, I don't see why they ought be separated for this kind of discussion. I do think there's a feel of building towards something bigger than the individual parts, but I don't have an issue with that because it worked so well with Phase 1. I do get a lot out of the individual parts too, but the bigger picture is a genuinely exciting prospect, especially in as well-trodden an area as the Hollywood blockbuster.


But the big picture only works if each cog within it functions well. Like I say, I just found it interesting that people didn't seem to want to write about Iron Man 3, but rather news about title cards and so on. There does seem to have been a shift in how people are looking at the films post-Avengers, along the lines you describe above.

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RE: Are Marvel Risking Burnout? - 15/7/2012 8:09:43 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8324
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

We talked a bit about this on twitter last night, but to reiterate my opinion: I think they're alright until Downey Jr. steps down. In my opinion the first hurdle was Iron Man 2, which is where it'd could have all fallen apart. The Avengers was the second hurdle, and that turned out better than anyone imagined. I think it's plain sailing 'til Downey Jr. goes, and then, well, I don't know.



I think they've negotiated a fair few pitfalls surprisingly well, better than I anticipated anyway. The could easily have come unstuck with Thor or Captain America as well as the two you mention.

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