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Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 7:42:29 AM   
Phubbs


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The final showdown for the next generation crew and FINALLY the Romulans get a chance to shine. Thing is they are overshadowed and pushed to the side by the Remans haha guess the Romulans had to wait for the reboot.

Sooo here we are again, Earth in danger from an alien race and 'Picard' also being abused by another alien race again. First he's assimilated now he's being mentally tortured by his power crazed clone who wants his blood...literately, some days huh.

I must admit I can't get my head around film responses at times, I've read this was looked upon negatively. Why? its actually a pretty good Trek adventure and possibly the slickest of the next gen films, maybe the best of the four. Certainly better than 'Insurrection' and 'Generations' and much more open for everyone instead of just the Trekkies, which is probably for the best if you think about it.

Plot wise this is total Star Trek, exactly as you would expect with overblown ideas and fantastic notions of sci-fi. Its not original and its not gonna surprise you but at the end of the day it does the job and entertains for the run time.
Hardy is the bad guy dressed in shiny black armour (and am I the only one who forgot all about him being in this?! I was like 'hey that's Tom Hardy!'), He's bald, he sounds like David Thewlis and he's unpredictable with bouts of sulky anger down to his young age, I presume that was intended. Put simply he was a darn good villain (finally) who was perfectly slimy enough to get under your skin, just what the franchise needed.

The rest of the bad guys all look really decent too. The Remans makeup/prosthetics are excellent infact, first really good Star Trek aliens I've seen to be truthful. OK they do look like a race of 'Nosferatu', infact a bit too close really, almost a complete rip off hehe but I must admit they look damn good, highly aggressive and imposing visually, kudos.

Actually the bad guys in this film coupled with the nice makeup and regal work/designs on the Romulans completely steal the show from the Enterprise crew. We all know the next gen crew are dull but they pale in comparison to the villainy on screen here, I actually wanted the bad guys to win this, would of been much more interesting.

It was also weak to see they finally got the balls to kill off one of the next gen crew ('Data') only to basically have him survive on by introducing an earlier model. I could see that coming miles away, and of course 'Data' conveniently manages to upload all his personal 'data' into the earlier model before he sacrifices himself. So basically 'Data' was killed but low and behold the replica earlier model takes his place complete with all 'Data's' personal memories and attributes, as if he had never left *groan*.

As I said earlier this is easily the best looking of the next gen films, probably all the Trek films. Production values look high as does everything in the film, all sets look quite swish with depth and a solid appearance. 'Picard' and his crew look as boring as ever in their grey uniforms but as I said before both the Romulans and Remans outfits all look superbly crafted and boarded more on 'Star Wars' quality.

Space sequences look delicious as they tend to in these films but this time the starships look much better than before. Its mainly cgi as usual but clearly much sharper and with some good looking weight to them, still not quite up to Mr Lucas' spaceships but getting close, the cloaking effect still looks a bit dodgy.
Must mention the rather sweet looking cityscape on Romulus at the start of the film, very much on form with another certain popular sci-fi fantasy, dare I say quite 'Naboo-ish'. A big kudos to the death sequence of the Romulan Imperial Senate also at the start. The infection and fast decay shown is some of the best cgi mixed with real time model work I've seen. These effects really put the film on good stead showcasing a newer sexier Trek offering.

I guess you could say this one film is merely an action film in Star Trek clothes and not exactly what Star Trek is all about. Where has all the exploration gone? the seeking out of new worlds and new civilisations etc...There is definitely more bias towards fighting, death, multiple laser blasting and even the obligatory action film 'car chase' sequence. But its hard to win with Star Trek, either its too flashy and gun-ho, not 'Trekkie' enough for the core fans. Or its too dull and slow for everyone like some of the older Trek films or its too in depth for non core fans and more of a Trekkie treat fan film.

Its not very original and is pretty much a cookie cutter production but what do you expect with Star Trek. Plenty of decent action in space and a bit on land with a moon buggy chase, some of the best effects so far (about time), great visual designs throughout with the usual high calibre imagination but maybe it loses the true Star Trek essence along the way?.

Entirely predictable to the last minute but ultimately very enjoyable like most of the good Trek adventures. Another good franchise bookend, this time for the next generation crew. It hasn't been as memorable as the classic crew films in my opinion but a valiant effort none the less.
Post #: 1
RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 10:33:39 AM   
jackcarter

 

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.

< Message edited by jackcarter -- 13/12/2012 8:38:10 PM >

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 11:54:20 AM   
Nexus Wookie


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I really like Nemesis; as Phubbs has pointed out, its way better than Generation's and Insurrection. I thought the visual effects were very well done. The opening buggy chase scene was really cool - it grabbed you by the ball's from the off. And the Romulan senate scene also stick's out as as a high point for me too; the set design and the look of the cityscape was brilliant - and reminded me of Naboo (with a dash of Coruscant) too.

I especially love the final battle in space; it looked visually stunning and the green tinge to the whole affair made it that more fun. I call it the 'Kryptonian space shoot-out'!

< Message edited by Nexus Wookie -- 10/7/2012 11:56:18 AM >


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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 1:01:20 PM   
NCC1701A


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

I really like Nemesis; as Phubbs has pointed out, its way better than Generation's and Insurrection. I thought the visual effects were very well done. The opening buggy chase scene was really cool - it grabbed you by the ball's from the off. And the Romulan senate scene also stick's out as as a high point for me too; the set design and the look of the cityscape was brilliant - and reminded me of Naboo (with a dash of Coruscant) too.

I especially love the final battle in space; it looked visually stunning and the green tinge to the whole affair made it that more fun. I call it the 'Kryptonian space shoot-out'!


Agree 100 %  don't get the hate for this film.  

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 3:34:47 PM   
Spaldron


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I really like this one too, very underrated, although Phubbs is correct about it being unoriginal.... its basically The Wrath of Khan Shinzon. As for it flopping it didn't help that it was released just weeks after Harry Potter and LOTR. Still I'd say Nemesis is the second best TNG film.

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 3:48:22 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
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I think looking back it was maybe best the way it turned out because the JJ reboot was very good in my opinion, surprising too I might add, but a very good film which is better than most of the older films.

I don't think more films with the next gen crew would of been the right move as the whole premise was getting very stale especially including all the classic crew films on top. Many critic's at the time mentioned how old the franchise and ideas were getting, just the same boring outcomes and adventures no matter how pretty they looked.

I think 'Nemesis' was a good film but I can see what they mean as it was pretty much by the numbers, they still couldn't even kill off a character properly, obviously too scared to take that route, but that's what they would of needed to stay afloat with more films.

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 3:55:07 PM   
directorscut


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It's cack.

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 4:22:17 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

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Having read your Star Trek reviews Phubbs I too currently portray the same bias towards the original Star Trek crew.
I just couldn't/cant get into the Generation crew even though I regard them more grounded than the original Shatner mob.

The only other Star Trek series I enjoyed would be Deep Space Nine,where the different concept gave more to the world of Star fleet as they weren't all hopping across Galaxys.

I think the J.J Abrams take on Star Trek was needed.Although I could forsee the Generations film continuing I,personally,felt they were losing there appeal to some Trek fans and new comers.
What J.J.Abrams did was give Star Trek a fresh emphasis for new and old fans and without sounding like a ass I think J.J did make Star Trek "cool" again.But I do hope that the next Star Trek will feel alittle less glossy and make certain characters ie the females alittle less cliche and men-driven.

< Message edited by OPEN YOUR EYES -- 10/7/2012 4:23:12 PM >

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 6:13:01 PM   
Nexus Wookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

It's cack.


That's a really insightful review directorscut.

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 6:15:30 PM   
directorscut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

It's cack.


That's a really insightful review directorscut.


I like my reviews to be concise and to the point.

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 6:21:59 PM   
Nexus Wookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

It's cack.


That's a really insightful review directorscut.


I like my reviews to be concise and to the point.


Yeah I noticed!

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 6:54:05 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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But DC is right.

It is rubbish.

I lay the blame firmly at the feet of Brett Spiner and his insistence on have an equal storyline to Stewart. One of the things the film does right is the idea of age which has been there since Generations. But like I say the B-4 subplot feels totally tacked on and unnecessary.

If Spiner really wanted to see Data dead he should have went the whole hog. The introduction of ANOTHER model is just lazy and an obvious fob to an actor. He also insists on singing in these films which I takes me out of them. Bet you it is in his contract.

I hate Data. He was annoying and never really developed. A one note character and I cannot fathom how Picard would see him in the same light as Kirk/Spock. B4 makes all that much worse and I wish they actually had the guts to get rid of him. If he wanted to come back I'm sure his evil brother could have been brought back to fight the crew.

Using Kahn as a template doesn't even make sense for the bad guy. Why is he so pissed off with Earth? But there is an interesting problem for him– keep the captain alive but disable the ship. Unfortunately the Next Gen movies were never really able to give the space ships the sense of grandeur the earlier films had. I think this is to do with the fact that those directors saw the Enterprise as a central character and shot it as such whereas effects shots are sent out to some technicians who don't have the eye for the awe inspiring. Look at the final shot of the ship in dock – the older films would have sold that scene much much better.

The film was sold as the final adventure but it never really felt that was the case – even with everyone saying buy to each other. Unlike the Undiscovered Country I felt there was maybe a story left (one thankfully without Data)

So if I was to do another one I would suggest –

Make sure it is something Stewart can get his teeth into. Without him this series would not work. The only times I really felt him engaged with the material were when he cried in Generations and his anger in First Contact. The last two films he didn't have a relatable threat.

Keep Data away. Not even his evil twin. And no B4. Also no more damn singing (it can't be a coincidence that the generally accepted three worst Treks all take time out for a singsong)

Give the other cast members something to do. Poor Crusher, who I think should have been the confident to Picard, was regulated to the background allowing Trois to take on her role.

If you can't find a position for Worf don't use him. Having him stumble into films and then being the comedy relief is a bit annoying and I can't imagine Michael Dorn being happy.


< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 10/7/2012 6:56:31 PM >


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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 7:03:39 PM   
rich


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It IS cack.

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 10/7/2012 8:47:27 PM   
Lazarus munkey


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I enjoyed it, never understood the vitriol it provoked.

In terms of the 'old crew vs. new crew' debate, I think they're about even. The overall quality of the later films is more consistent but they do look rather stagey and never really escaped the tv roots, probably because there wasn't such a leap in sfx capability as there was between the original show and first 6 movies. The earlier films are erratic in terms of quality (TFF remains the only 'bad' Trek film) but have a lot more charm than TNG who din't really show any outside of First Contact.

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 11/7/2012 6:55:36 AM   
Phubbs


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Personally I think Star Trek is almost done as a franchise. I read many reviews of this film saying how old and tired the entire setup was and how the plot was a retread of previous films etc...

I agree with this, the classic crew had six films and that was enough I think. The next gen crew had four films of which only one was really good (FC) and to be honest I think that is also enough for them. They were a terribly dull bunch and I also hated 'Data' and the fact no one had the balls to kill the bugger off completely, that's the kind of stuff that happens in an episode of 'Red Dwarf'.

The new reboot is new and flashy but different in one aspect, the new crew played by a new cast and showing the early days for the characters before they all meet up. This is why the reboot did so well, it was fresh, reasonably original and looked fantastic. This despite it being yet another retread with exactly the same notions /plot as 'Star Trek VI' 'Nemesis' and 'Kahn' only with a Romulan renegade this time.

The problem is thus, the reboot has been and gone, that new fresh idea is now done, gone, it has been used and to be honest it was a bit of a one hit wonder. I think they will get away with one more film in the reboot series but after that we will be back to square one again with the fact that Star Trek is old hat and has been completely sapped dry of all ideas and originality. In other words we will be retreading the same old stuff all over again with the new crew.

This is why the previous two series of films with the previous two crews stopped, because the originality dried up, the ideas dried up and audiences became bored and tired of the same old routine on offer, this is why 'Nemesis' failed badly.

Think about it, what can the reboot Star Trek offer? we all know the crew cannot die so that instantly takes away any edge of your seat tension, surprises and a lot of story ideas. How can the reboot carry on with the same old stuff? we all know what will happen, crew fight various bad guys or aliens or unknown entities but in the end they win and everything is OK and no one dies, what's the point?
The only way it could be different is the fact the reboot is set in an alternate dimension/reality so its possible that certain crew members could die as the normal rules no longer apply, but I'm not sure on that.

I think the reboot was great for a one off boost and that's all. I know the idea will be milked to death but it won't last long before everyone is saying its the same old story all over again but with a different cast. How many times can we see fights with renegade Klingons, Romulans, Remans or whoever? how many times can we see this new cast/crew do the same shit the previous two crews have done over the last ten films?!!

I honestly really can't see how Star Trek can carry on. Every avenue has been explored, they can't possibly go back any further with prequels and going any further in the future would be difficult if you ask me.

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 11/7/2012 7:11:55 AM   
Lazarus munkey


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You're forgetting one crucial point, the reboot deliberately created an alternate timeline so the characters' destinies were not set. It's a clean slate.

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RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 11/7/2012 12:19:20 PM   
NCC1701A


Posts: 4421
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From: Space Dock
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

Personally I think Star Trek is almost done as a franchise. I read many reviews of this film saying how old and tired the entire setup was and how the plot was a retread of previous films etc...

I agree with this, the classic crew had six films and that was enough I think. The next gen crew had four films of which only one was really good (FC) and to be honest I think that is also enough for them. They were a terribly dull bunch and I also hated 'Data' and the fact no one had the balls to kill the bugger off completely, that's the kind of stuff that happens in an episode of 'Red Dwarf'.

The new reboot is new and flashy but different in one aspect, the new crew played by a new cast and showing the early days for the characters before they all meet up. This is why the reboot did so well, it was fresh, reasonably original and looked fantastic. This despite it being yet another retread with exactly the same notions /plot as 'Star Trek VI' 'Nemesis' and 'Kahn' only with a Romulan renegade this time.

The problem is thus, the reboot has been and gone, that new fresh idea is now done, gone, it has been used and to be honest it was a bit of a one hit wonder. I think they will get away with one more film in the reboot series but after that we will be back to square one again with the fact that Star Trek is old hat and has been completely sapped dry of all ideas and originality. In other words we will be retreading the same old stuff all over again with the new crew.

This is why the previous two series of films with the previous two crews stopped, because the originality dried up, the ideas dried up and audiences became bored and tired of the same old routine on offer, this is why 'Nemesis' failed badly.

Think about it, what can the reboot Star Trek offer? we all know the crew cannot die so that instantly takes away any edge of your seat tension, surprises and a lot of story ideas. How can the reboot carry on with the same old stuff? we all know what will happen, crew fight various bad guys or aliens or unknown entities but in the end they win and everything is OK and no one dies, what's the point?
The only way it could be different is the fact the reboot is set in an alternate dimension/reality so its possible that certain crew members could die as the normal rules no longer apply, but I'm not sure on that.

I think the reboot was great for a one off boost and that's all. I know the idea will be milked to death but it won't last long before everyone is saying its the same old story all over again but with a different cast. How many times can we see fights with renegade Klingons, Romulans, Remans or whoever? how many times can we see this new cast/crew do the same shit the previous two crews have done over the last ten films?!!

I honestly really can't see how Star Trek can carry on. Every avenue has been explored, they can't possibly go back any further with prequels and going any further in the future would be difficult if you ask me.


We will have  to wait and see how the sequel to Star Trek -2009 holds up before we write Star Trek off. And has a fan of both the movies and the TV series (Voyager I could not get in to) I hope it carrys on.

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Post #: 17
RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 11/7/2012 4:35:54 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
Joined: 3/4/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey

You're forgetting one crucial point, the reboot deliberately created an alternate timeline so the characters' destinies were not set. It's a clean slate.


No I did mention that possibility in my message but whether it would work or not I'm not sure. Can/could you have an alternate timeline where some crew members are dead? or would that technically effect the first main timeline?

On the other hand, do the creators of the new reboot Star Trek actually have the balls to kill off a main crew member this time? it would be brash and bold but I think its what's needed for sure. If the crew remain invincible like previous crews then it will get boring fast.


< Message edited by Phubbs -- 11/7/2012 4:39:28 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 11/7/2012 4:55:23 PM   
jackcarter

 

Posts: 1859
Joined: 12/1/2006
quote:

This despite it being yet another retread with exactly the same notions /plot as 'Star Trek VI' 'Nemesis' and 'Kahn' only with a Romulan renegade this time.


i was quite shocked at how close to Nemesis it was with the Romulan threat, the Narada abit similar to shinzons ship, and the bald villain wanting to destroy earth and the ent chasing after leading to a final shoot out onboard the enemy ship.. even scotty little creature friend was like a mini version of those on the Mad Max planet

< Message edited by jackcarter -- 12/7/2012 11:26:40 AM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 12/7/2012 11:22:43 AM   
WilliamRoss

 

Posts: 7
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

No I did mention that possibility in my message but whether it would work or not I'm not sure. Can/could you have an alternate timeline where some crew members are dead? or would that technically effect the first main timeline?
Yes and no. Time travel usually changes the timeline like in First Contact, but there are also parallel realities established in TV-Star Trek (one reality for every possibility that exists), so it's basically whatever the author choses it to be.

quote:

On the other hand, do the creators of the new reboot Star Trek actually have the balls to kill off a main crew member this time? it would be brash and bold but I think its what's needed for sure. If the crew remain invincible like previous crews then it will get boring fast.
I wouldn't count on it, not even in the third and probably last movie of the series.

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Post #: 20
RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 12/7/2012 4:38:11 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
Joined: 3/4/2012
^So its very possible that the new reboot series will become dull pretty fast then what else can they do now which is different? The sequel will obviously be the crew fighting another villain or space beastie/entity whilst trying to stop another possible disaster in the process. This is the problem the previous films had over time.

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Post #: 21
RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 12/7/2012 4:50:45 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4381
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey

You're forgetting one crucial point, the reboot deliberately created an alternate timeline so the characters' destinies were not set. It's a clean slate.


No I did mention that possibility in my message but whether it would work or not I'm not sure. Can/could you have an alternate timeline where some crew members are dead? or would that technically effect the first main timeline?

On the other hand, do the creators of the new reboot Star Trek actually have the balls to kill off a main crew member this time? it would be brash and bold but I think its what's needed for sure. If the crew remain invincible like previous crews then it will get boring fast.



Aslong as the script holds up well,has that classic sci-fi adventure feel and the films in general are an enjoyable watch then I cant really see your point.
In your eyes the only way it can better itself is for the death of noticable crew members?,really,this isn't Eastenders.
So Although I can see them going down that route I wouldn't agree that it would be strongly needed, as you have put it.
And J.J Abrams did have the balls to kill-off the Vulcan-home planet,so I would say that was (is) a big deal in the Trek universe.

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Post #: 22
RE: Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) - 12/7/2012 4:58:17 PM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
Joined: 3/4/2012
I know its not a major element that needs to be done but we already have 10 films with 2 Trek crews doing exactly what you just said and when 'Nemesis' came around the general consensus was its all old hat and that's why it flopped. A new crew gives a fresh appeal initially but for how long? I'm not having a go at Star Trek as I enjoy the franchise and some of the films as you know but I'm just being realistic here hehe

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