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Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 8:16:24 AM   
great_badir


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...and probably invites the wrath of the Church of Scientology - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18653268

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 8:20:57 AM   
jonson


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I like Tom Cruise, as a movie star, he's pretty faultless, however she always looks like she's trapped in a marriage with an egotistical psycho, which I think we'll probably find out is now true.
Shame for the little kid though, she'll have to have a make-up bag and high heels in 2 houses now.

< Message edited by jonson -- 30/6/2012 8:21:14 AM >


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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 8:32:59 AM   
great_badir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson
she'll have to have a make-up bag and high heels in 2 houses now.


That makes her normal celeb offspring now then!

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 9:27:18 AM   
UTB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson

I like Tom Cruise, as a movie star, he's pretty faultless, however she always looks like she's trapped in a marriage with an egotistical psycho, which I think we'll probably find out is now true.


I think we will found out that she wasn't trapped and in fact wore the trousers between them.

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 9:55:44 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54677
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I don't like Cruise as a film star and have never rated him as an actor (and as I first saw him in Taps, I also can ignore the regular crap you get nowadays of being accused of forming opinions on off-screen stuff.) - I can't even get beyond one hand in counting films he's in I even like.

But given the rumours about slight implosions in the Co$ behemoth (high profile people leaving etc) this might be a well-timed out. The problem, of course, is that those who stay in the cult when someone leaves have to completely cut them off - so my only hope here is that Holmes manages to save at least that one kid from growing up in that frakked up pseudo-religion.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 30/6/2012 10:07:54 AM >


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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 10:52:25 AM   
kumar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I don't like Cruise as a film star and have never rated him as an actor (and as I first saw him in Taps, I also can ignore the regular crap you get nowadays of being accused of forming opinions on off-screen stuff.) - I can't even get beyond one hand in counting films he's in I even like.

But given the rumours about slight implosions in the Co$ behemoth (high profile people leaving etc) this might be a well-timed out. The problem, of course, is that those who stay in the cult when someone leaves have to completely cut them off - so my only hope here is that Holmes manages to save at least that one kid from growing up in that frakked up pseudo-religion.


Which is quite sad really when it does say she is seeking sole custody. I like Cruise a lot, but I really dont get the Scientology thing. Be what you want and what not but ive never been able to get my head around the CoS.

Edit: ill reserve judgement until Cruise has sex with his dog to spite his ex wife.

< Message edited by kumar -- 30/6/2012 10:59:07 AM >


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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 1:28:54 PM   
BigKovacs


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The CoS will probably say that she had sex with a dog, you know how the church can get a little spiteful when it gets cross.

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 2:16:36 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8327
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I bet that crazy bastard tries to disconnect the shit out of her.

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 2:37:49 PM   
donethinking


Posts: 431
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From: Haggisland
I'm not a fan of cruise, i mean he always comes across as a nice enough guy.....but there seems to be a monster huge ego underneath and fuck knows what the hell he was on about saying if he drove past a road accident he has to stop because as a scientologist/knob head he knows they're the only people that can really help! yeah Tom fuck off ya stunted cunt!

< Message edited by donethinking -- 30/6/2012 2:38:27 PM >

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 3:15:30 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5113
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quote:

ORIGINAL: donethinking

I'm not a fan of cruise, i mean he always comes across as a nice enough guy.....but there seems to be a monster huge ego underneath and fuck knows what the hell he was on about saying if he drove past a road accident he has to stop because as a scientologist/knob head he knows they're the only people that can really help! yeah Tom fuck off ya stunted cunt!


Aye, that's basically why celebrities are attracted to it - fame and fortune is one thing but even billionaire's get bored: here's a religion that tells them they're not only wealthy and idolised but they've achieved it because they're special, as in having superpowers.Has Will Smith came out yet? Only a matter of time I reckon, judging by the humourless self-aggrandising tripe he's started talking in interviews.
It'll be interesting to see if Katie Holmes remains a scientologist. If (as seems to be expected) she leaves the church then there's no way anyone can claim the cult had nothing to do with her binning him.

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 3:28:42 PM   
Spaldron


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Its a shame she married him as it really damaged her "promising acting career".............




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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 3:36:43 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8327
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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
It'll be interesting to see if Katie Holmes remains a scientologist. If (as seems to be expected) she leaves the church then there's no way anyone can claim the cult had nothing to do with her binning him.


Did she ever join the cult? I'm assuming she must have, I don't imagine Scientologists being the live and let live sort, but did she ever come out and confirm she was a cultist?

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 3:44:09 PM   
adambatman82

 

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I went to my local church of scientology for a period a few years ago. An ex-girlfriend was making a documentary about them and she needed someone to go along to their meetings and see what it was all about. I have to admit that having been raised Catholic, and having attended Catholic school to the age of 16 nothing that I saw in my time with the scientologists especially freaked me out, or struck me as particularly odd: the greatest annoyance came with expensive books being hawked every time I went in.

As I said on twitter yesterday, all religions look weird to outsiders, Scientology is no different to Catholicism or Christianity as far as I'm concerned.

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 3:44:50 PM   
horribleives

 

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Actually now you mention it I don't even know - I just assumed she joined too after he drugged her tea or put some mind-control device in her ear while she slept.

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 3:47:46 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan
Did she ever join the cult? I'm assuming she must have, I don't imagine Scientologists being the live and let live sort, but did she ever come out and confirm she was a cultist?


Neither are you from the sounds of things. I really don't get the widespread criticism of something that most of us know very little about, who cares what beliefs a complete stranger lives by?

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 3:52:04 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
Scientology is no different to Catholicism or Christianity as far as I'm concerned.


No its very different.

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 3:57:54 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
As I said on twitter yesterday, all religions look weird to outsiders, Scientology is no different to Catholicism or Christianity as far as I'm concerned.


It's a wee bit weirder. Just a bit.

As for Katie Holmes, there were rumours when they married that her parents were angry that Cruise wanted to convert her because she as brought up a Catholic......


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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 3:58:23 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
Scientology is no different to Catholicism or Christianity as far as I'm concerned.


No its very different.


How so?

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Post #: 18
RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 4:01:55 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
As I said on twitter yesterday, all religions look weird to outsiders, Scientology is no different to Catholicism or Christianity as far as I'm concerned.


It's a wee bit weirder. Just a bit.


Why is it though? There's no difference: both serve up a set of beliefs and teachings and their followers follow. I guess its socially more acceptable to ridicule and mock Scientology than it is any of the major religions, but thats about it. They're all hokey and odd, but who am I to judge something that someone else gets something positive out of?

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 4:07:57 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54677
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
As I said on twitter yesterday, all religions look weird to outsiders, Scientology is no different to Catholicism or Christianity as far as I'm concerned.


It's a wee bit weirder. Just a bit.


Why is it though? There's no difference: both serve up a set of beliefs and teachings and their followers follow. I guess its socially more acceptable to ridicule and mock Scientology than it is any of the major religions, but thats about it. They're all hokey and odd, but who am I to judge something that someone else gets something positive out of?


One reason - the status of the cult is an issue because it costs us money. Giving it religious status allows it tax benefits which other more sensible countries have not been foolish enough to do.

The heavy selling tactics are those of a cult - and repeated accusations of bugging and following those who want to leave etc bring it into the more worryingly criminal side of things. Most religions don't start doing that when people (or for Scientology, the cash cows) want to leave. Or end up with the kind of criminal charges Co$ has from the 70s, including Hubbard's wife. Haggis' resignation letter also makes for an amusing read.

I'm an atheist - for me it should be as you say Adam, they're all much of a muchness. I find the origin of something like Mormonism almost as amusing as Hubbard's cash con idea. But even I can draw the line on what fell out of it.

I agree it's entirely one thing if something gets benefit from something without harm to others. But here there is a child - and Co$ rules demand an absolute cut-off for family/friends/loved ones who leave the church. That's cult behaviour, IMO.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 30/6/2012 4:08:18 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 4:18:26 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
Scientology is no different to Catholicism or Christianity as far as I'm concerned.


No its very different.


How so?


One is a religion and the other is a cult. I'm saying this as a non-believer if that gives perspective.


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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 4:27:06 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
One reason - the status of the cult is an issue because it costs us money. Giving it religious status allows it tax benefits which other more sensible countries have not been foolish enough to do.


I guess we're straying in to the territory of "what makes a religion a religion?" here. The tax issue is annoying, but having a government dictate what is and isn't allowed to be a religion strays very close to dangerous territory. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to start their own religion if they want to?

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
The heavy selling tactics are those of a cult - and repeated accusations of bugging and following those who want to leave etc bring it into the more worryingly criminal side of things.


As I said before, I messed around with them a few years ago, and never found myself witness to any hard sell as such (except for the frequent pushes to buy books!). I've actually felt more pestered by my Christian friends to go along to their churches than I did then. I can imagine that if you've had a different experience with them, which it sounds like you have, that you'd feel differently tho.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
But here there is a child - and Co$ rules demand an absolute cut-off for family/friends/loved ones who leave the church.


I'm genuinely struggling to find an authoritative source confirming that this is the case, but admit that if it were then it would be odd. Does Cruise not have a relationship with his other kids then?

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 30/6/2012 4:30:03 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 4:29:41 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
Scientology is no different to Catholicism or Christianity as far as I'm concerned.


No its very different.


How so?


One is a religion and the other is a cult. I'm saying this as a non-believer if that gives perspective.



Religion, cult, its all semantics (especially to an atheist surely?). From the perspective of a non-believer, which is the same POV as me, I can't see why you'd be so keen to make the distinction: surely its all a nonsense and who cares what people who aren't us do to make them feel good (provided it's within the law, which scientology is).

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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 4:46:57 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
As I said on twitter yesterday, all religions look weird to outsiders, Scientology is no different to Catholicism or Christianity as far as I'm concerned.


It's a wee bit weirder. Just a bit.


Why is it though?


Aliens. Plus, it was invented by a science-fiction writer in the 50s. This isn't a religion that has been around for thousands of years that facts and interpretation get muddled and mixed up, most of the evidence of its conception is there.

And I know many Catholics and none of them, that is to say zero amount of the Catholic people I know have tried to get me to convert to their religion.

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 30/6/2012 4:47:53 PM >


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RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 4:56:17 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench
Aliens. Plus, it was invented by a science-fiction writer in the 50s.


Well, when you put it like that!

On an unrelated note though, I do personally actually believe in aliens, whereas I'm not sure I can say the same thing about angels.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench
This isn't a religion that has been around for thousands of years that facts and interpretation get muddled and mixed up, most of the evidence of its conception is there.


Yeah I think that's the big problem with the perception of Scientology to us lot. My ultimate point isn't really about the legitimacy of this one religion, but of all religions. That we know of the man that literally invented the religion does make Scientology an easier whipping boy than Christianity, but if you look in to it the origins of what we consider to be Christianity (Emporor Constantine) are just as weird and questionable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_and_Christianity

I'm not defending Scientology, I'm just saying they're all pretty much the same.

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Post #: 25
RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 4:58:09 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8327
Joined: 31/7/2008
Established religions make as little sense to me as Scientology, however at least they have the benefit of having existed for as long as civilization and are therefore deeply engrained on a cultural (and sometimes legal) basis. Scientology is younger than my stepdad, was made up by a pulp science-fiction writer to make money and has aliens in it. The religions may be bollocks, but scientology is obvious bollocks. Plus it does it all with a rather nasty streak and has none of the charitable side of religions.

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Post #: 26
RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 5:01:01 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8327
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan
Did she ever join the cult? I'm assuming she must have, I don't imagine Scientologists being the live and let live sort, but did she ever come out and confirm she was a cultist?


Neither are you from the sounds of things. I really don't get the widespread criticism of something that most of us know very little about, who cares what beliefs a complete stranger lives by?


Depends on what those beliefs require you to do, I suppose. Some belief systems require people to die (not saying that scientology does of course, that only relies on harassment and bullying). I don't care what you believe in, just don't be mental.

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Post #: 27
RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 5:10:49 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

Established religions make as little sense to me as Scientology, however at least they have the benefit of having existed for as long as civilisation


Most common religions aren't actually that old though. Modern Christianity was established around 300 AD, while Islam was established around 600 AD. If humans have been around for around 6000 years most of what we consider to be religions have only been around for around a quarter of that.

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Post #: 28
RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 5:17:03 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench
Aliens. Plus, it was invented by a science-fiction writer in the 50s.


Well, when you put it like that!

On an unrelated note though, I do personally actually believe in aliens, whereas I'm not sure I can say the same thing about angels.


Me too (well, I believe in some sort of life out there), but the fact that Scientology 'teaches' us that we are actually immortals from another planet who have forgotten our real nature is bollocks and, as I pointed out earlier, weirder than your souls going somewhere better (or worse) after you die. Which is also bollocks in my opinion. I believe in evolution, I believe we are from this planet, not another nor from a bearded dude in the sky who, let's face it, comes across as a bit of a dick a lot of the time

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench
This isn't a religion that has been around for thousands of years that facts and interpretation get muddled and mixed up, most of the evidence of its conception is there.


Yeah I think that's the big problem with the perception of Scientology to us lot. My ultimate point isn't really about the legitimacy of this one religion, but of all religions. That we know of the man that literally invented the religion does make Scientology an easier whipping boy than Christianity, but if you look in to it the origins of what we consider to be Christianity (Emporor Constantine) are just as weird and questionable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_and_Christianity

I'm not defending Scientology, I'm just saying they're all pretty much the same.



And I agree with you, but like I say, I just think Scientology comes across as a bit more strange because you can trace its origins back. I don't believe in God, but his creation goes back much further and all the origins of 'him' as a deity have been changed throughout the years to suit specific people over time (as you pointed out).

Knowing what we know, through actual Science, aliens, the way Hubbard has described them haven't been here yet. And because of the length of time the legend of God has been around, I understand more why people believe in God. If you know what I mean.


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Post #: 29
RE: Katie Holmes comes to her senses... - 30/6/2012 5:17:52 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8327
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

Established religions make as little sense to me as Scientology, however at least they have the benefit of having existed for as long as civilisation


Most common religions aren't actually that old though. Modern Christianity was established around 300 AD, while Islam was established around 600 AD. If humans have been around for around 6000 years most of what we consider to be religions have only been around for around a quarter of that.


I guess it's all relative, but I would consider that to be old. Very few other existing institutions can claim to be as old, for example. The influence as a result is significant, even in a fairly secular country such as the UK. Perhaps in a millennia or two Scientology will be the same, but for now it simply isn't.

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