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RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 7:41:05 PM   
snaze1


Posts: 281
Joined: 2/3/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: snaze1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

I'm explaining to you why it got criticism, Notting Hill for many conjures up images of diversity, images that were lacking in the film. That's why the film gets criticised as racist. The title places emphasis on the location. It's really that simple. And I want you to explain why White Chicks is REAL racism. If you're calling it racist then you should be able to explain why.


Because if you had two white men dressing up as two black women and acting out the stereotypes of that race's gender people and naming it "Black Chicks" everyone would consider that racist and get all up in arms about it?




I don't think you've actually seen the film. The jokes aren't about the stereotypes of white women, they're about rich, elite, white women. The Paris Hilton's of the world. It's not about a gender or race of women, it's about a certain section of society. And having characters dress up as characters of another race doesn't automatically make a film racist, having two black men dressed up as two white women can have much to say about gender, race and social class. And the reverse has been done. Or are we conveniently ignoring Robert Downey Jr's Oscar nomination for playing a character blacking up in Tropic Thunder? White Chicks doesn't work as a film, at all, but a film isn't racist simply because it has a character playing a character of a different race.

quote:

And that is far more racist in my opinion than a load of pc nonsense about a film that in no way, shape or form was intended to be racist


So because something doesn't intend to be racist it means it can't be racist? There's no such thing as unintentional racism?


I have (unfortunately) seen white chicks and i stand by my reasons for it being racist.
Any caricature of a group of people be they white, black or skyfuckingblue is racist.
As i say would it be racist if the film were called Black chicks?
I think you will find if you do a little research that White chicks has been accussed of racism far more than Notting hill.
And yes i do believe that the Robert Downey Juniour character in Tropic Thunder is racist in exactly the same way the characters in White chicks are and there was the same (justified) uproar at the time it was released.
And as for your other point, there is such a thing as unintentional racism but that is at least defendable.
Do you actually think that Richard Curtis is racist?

< Message edited by snaze1 -- 2/8/2012 7:48:24 PM >

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 31
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 7:50:35 PM   
snaze1


Posts: 281
Joined: 2/3/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq




If you posted a picture of him when his skin got lighter Snaze would lose his mind.


So by that comment are you actually saying I'M a racist????


(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 32
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 7:55:21 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: snaze1

I have (unfortunately) seen whit chicks and i stand by my reasons for it being racist.
As i say would it be racist if the film were called Black chicks?



If it was called Black Chicks? No. If the film was similar to White Chicks? No. If the film was nothing other than a mean-spirited assault on black women? Yes. But that's not what White Chicks was.

quote:

I think you will find if you do a little research that White chicks has been accussed of racism far more than Notting hill.


I know it has. Quite often by people looking for an example to throw up to try and dismiss claims of white on black racism in other films. So let's run with the assumption that White Chicks is racist because it has two black men in white face, and Notting Hill is also racist because it completely ignores the racial diversity of an area famous for the Notting Hill Carnival, a celebration of racial diversity. One is overt racism, one is unintentional. Why did you feel the need to try and counter the claims of racism in one film, by dragging in an unrelated film that you believe shows reverse racism? Why not just argue your feelings that Notting Hill isn't racist? Why try and one up with an example of what you feel is REAL racism? And why choose black on white racism for an example of REAL racism? What makes that more real to you?

quote:

And as for your other point, there is such a thing as unintentional racism but that is at least defendable.


You do realise that you've phrased that to suggest a form of racism is defendable?

quote:

Do you actually think that Richard Curtis is racist?


Once again, have I said at any point that Notting Hill is a racist film? No, I think he hasn't written anything of value in over twenty years, just preachy and manipulative crap, but I don't think he's racist. I also don't think he would have been criticised anywhere near as much if he'd called the film Kensington.

quote:

So by that comment are you actually saying I'M a racist????


It was a joke based on you thinking REAL racism is shown in White Chicks.

(in reply to snaze1)
Post #: 33
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 8:48:49 PM   
snaze1


Posts: 281
Joined: 2/3/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: snaze1

I have (unfortunately) seen whit chicks and i stand by my reasons for it being racist.
As i say would it be racist if the film were called Black chicks?



If it was called Black Chicks? No. If the film was similar to White Chicks? No. If the film was nothing other than a mean-spirited assault on black women? Yes. But that's not what White Chicks was.

quote:

I think you will find if you do a little research that White chicks has been accussed of racism far more than Notting hill.


I know it has. Quite often by people looking for an example to throw up to try and dismiss claims of white on black racism in other films. So let's run with the assumption that White Chicks is racist because it has two black men in white face, and Notting Hill is also racist because it completely ignores the racial diversity of an area famous for the Notting Hill Carnival, a celebration of racial diversity. One is overt racism, one is unintentional. Why did you feel the need to try and counter the claims of racism in one film, by dragging in an unrelated film that you believe shows reverse racism? Why not just argue your feelings that Notting Hill isn't racist? Why try and one up with an example of what you feel is REAL racism? And why choose black on white racism for an example of REAL racism? What makes that more real to you?

quote:

And as for your other point, there is such a thing as unintentional racism but that is at least defendable.


You do realise that you've phrased that to suggest a form of racism is defendable?
quote:

Do you actually think that Richard Curtis is racist?


Once again, have I said at any point that Notting Hill is a racist film? No, I think he hasn't written anything of value in over twenty years, just preachy and manipulative crap, but I don't think he's racist. I also don't think he would have been criticised anywhere near as much if he'd called the film Kensington.

quote:

So by that comment are you actually saying I'M a racist????


It was a joke based on you thinking REAL racism is shown in White Chicks.


Yes in the same way you phrased it to seem like you claimed Notting hill is racist. If someone does something that cause offence unintentionally then yes, it is defendable.

I give up.
I really cant be bothered to argue with somone who is that thick that they would defend claims that Notting hill IS racist but White chicks IS NOT So how about we throw this open to anyone that wants to give their opinion either way


< Message edited by snaze1 -- 2/8/2012 8:51:17 PM >

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 34
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 10:10:11 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: snaze1


Yes in the same way you phrased it to seem like you claimed Notting hill is racist.



No, I didn't. Read the thread again. Someone else called the film racist. Several other people asked why. I answered them by explaining why there had been criticism of the film in the past. Maybe if you'd tried entering the debate like a normal poster, rather than acting aggressively and name-calling, you would understand that.

quote:

If someone does something that cause offence unintentionally then yes, it is defendable.


You haven't actually defended it though, have you? Not once. You've trolled me, you've dragged in other films, you've tried to dismiss any criticism of the film, but you haven't given any kind of thoughtful defence of the film. Your way of defending the film was insults and attempting to change the topic.

quote:

I really cant be bothered to argue with somone who is that thick


And again with the insults, I direct you to the Empire rules

quote:

5. Malicious or overtly antagonistic attacks on other members just for the sake of it (trolling).



quote:

they would defend claims that Notting hill IS racist but White chicks IS NOT


Actually, as explained, I answered the queries of the first few posters, then one poster tried to make a comparison that didn't work, I explained why it didn't work. And as for White Chicks, I asked you to explain why you thought it was REAL racism. Your answer consisted of A. Because black men are in whiteface. B. It wouldn't be allowed in reverse. The example I gave you of Downey Jr proves that it is not only allowed in reverse, it was in a film that got much more acclaim than White Chicks and even got Downey an Oscar nomination. So that wipes out reason B. So your logic for claiming that White Chicks is REAL racism is that it has black men in whiteface. You were asked to explain why that's automatically offensive and you haven't give one reason. So let's take a look at your reasoning again on this thread.

1. Notting Hill has received criticism in the past because of the lack of racial diversity in a film set in an area known for being racially diverse. You've dismissed anyone who feels that may be a problem as a politically correct idiot.

2. You think that someone in white face is not only automatically racist, regardless of context, but REAL racism.

(in reply to snaze1)
Post #: 35
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 10:15:29 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
I'm just a mod, standing in front of a forumite, asking him to play nice.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
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(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 36
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 10:17:47 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

I'm just a mod, standing in front of a forumite, asking him to play nice.

Are you a mod? I hadn't noticed.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 37
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 10:22:32 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

I'm just a mod, standing in front of a forumite, asking him to play nice.


Are you a mod? I hadn't noticed.


Wrong film. 

You've made a fool out of me, and you've made the life I lead foolish too.


_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 38
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 10:31:37 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

I'm just a mod, standing in front of a forumite, asking him to play nice.


Are you a mod? I hadn't noticed.


Wrong film. 

You've made a fool out of me, and you've made the life I lead foolish too.


Bugger me for a bunch of bananas.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 39
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 10:37:56 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

I'm just a mod, standing in front of a forumite, asking him to play nice.


I thought I was.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 40
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:01:36 PM   
snaze1


Posts: 281
Joined: 2/3/2007
"You utter prick"

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 41
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:04:35 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: snaze1

"You utter prick"


Another mature contribution to the thread.

(in reply to snaze1)
Post #: 42
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:06:37 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think he's quoting Spike from Notting Hill.

Which I believe actually went "You daft prick"

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 43
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:08:40 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
Oh, I know. But given that it wasn't actually part of the flow of the conversation it's also fairly obviously snaze trying to get in yet another spot of trolling.

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 44
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:09:44 PM   
snaze1


Posts: 281
Joined: 2/3/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

I think he's quoting Spike from Notting Hill.

Which I believe actually went "You daft prick"


Yeah that was what i was going for, not seen it for a while

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 45
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:10:29 PM   
snaze1


Posts: 281
Joined: 2/3/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Oh, I know. But given that it wasn't actually part of the flow of the conversation it's also fairly obviously snaze trying to get in yet another spot of trolling.


I was actually trying to add a little humour to the thread & lighten things up a bit.

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 46
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:11:56 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: snaze1


quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Oh, I know. But given that it wasn't actually part of the flow of the conversation it's also fairly obviously snaze trying to get in yet another spot of trolling.


I was actually trying to add a little humour to the thread & lighten things up a bit.



Course you were. Just like all the other insults you threw around were just attempts at humour.

(in reply to snaze1)
Post #: 47
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:19:30 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
Don't make me break out the puppy and the kitten, fellas.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 48
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:21:48 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Don't make me break out the puppy and the kitten, fellas.

Sounds fabulous, I'll have a glass of that!

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 49
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:24:33 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Don't make me break out the puppy and the kitten, fellas.

Sounds fabulous, I'll have a glass of that!


It's not like that, you filth.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 50
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:29:00 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
It's obviously Homer's fault for not modding the thread properly. Too busy getting facts about Blair Witch wrong.

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 51
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:34:13 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Don't make me break out the puppy and the kitten, fellas.

Sounds fabulous, I'll have a glass of that!


It's not like that, you filth.


(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 52
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:38:00 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson
Too busy getting facts about Blair Witch wrong.


Oh, I have missed something, where is this?


_____________________________

Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 53
RE: Notting Hill - 2/8/2012 11:56:19 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

It's obviously Homer's fault for not modding the thread properly. Too busy getting facts about Blair Witch wrong.

Oh man, you'd better triple check your every post for grammar errors from now on

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 54
RE: Notting Hill - 3/8/2012 12:23:49 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Great now I have SHE in my head.

Thanks a bunch guys.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 55
RE: Notting Hill - 3/8/2012 9:07:20 AM   
snaze1


Posts: 281
Joined: 2/3/2007
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Oh, I know. But given that it wasn't actually part of the flow of the conversation it's also fairly obviously snaze trying to get in yet another spot of trolling.


Oh dear, someone disagree with you so they are obviously a troll.
Actually i was not the only person to disagree with your views on page 1 of the thread so maybe your views belong in unpopular opinions.

But then i would imagine that makes me a troll.
Like i said, anyone else care to pitch in with an opinion on this argument

< Message edited by snaze1 -- 3/8/2012 9:08:44 AM >

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 56
RE: Notting Hill - 3/8/2012 9:36:07 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: snaze1

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Oh, I know. But given that it wasn't actually part of the flow of the conversation it's also fairly obviously snaze trying to get in yet another spot of trolling.


Oh dear, someone disagree with you so they are obviously a troll.
Actually i was not the only person to disagree with your views on page 1 of the thread so maybe your views belong in unpopular opinions.



You're not a troll because you disagree with me. You're a troll because

A. You didn't enter the thread with a calm, reasonable attempt to debate. Your first post here was a personal attack.


quote:

Great, another Politically correct idiot who sees "racism" everywhere when there is none and would probably defend REAL racist stuff like "White chicks" because its black people being racist to whites!


B. Because you keep trying to create strawman arguments. You keep saying they're my views, or my opinions. Even though it's been explained to you more than once in the thread that the views aren't actually mine, that I'm explaining why there has been past criticism of the film as racist. You choose to ignore this.

C. Because instead of debating the merits of whether Notting Hill is or isn't racist, you tried to shift the focus to a completely unrelated film. You haven't once attempted to actually engage with the topic.

D. When asked why you think White Chicks is racist, you gave two reasons, one that was proven wrong (that it wouldn't be allowed in reverse), and one you've refused to expand on (why whiteface is automatically racist, regardless of context).

E. You've avoided explaining why it's REAL racism, despite being asked several times.

F. When you couldn't find anything to say to back up your points, you resorted to yet another personal attack

quote:

I really cant be bothered to argue with somone who is that thick


You stormed in to try and stir up an argument, refused to back up your assertions, refused to engage with questions asked of you, kept making the same claims repeatedly, even when told that wasn't the case, and you kept throwing around insults. That's why you're a troll.

(in reply to snaze1)
Post #: 57
RE: Notting Hill - 3/8/2012 9:44:37 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20117
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Then why are you feeding him?

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 58
RE: Notting Hill - 3/8/2012 9:46:22 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park


_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 59
RE: Notting Hill - 3/8/2012 9:53:02 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
Ok, fair enough, it did reach a point where I should have just ignored the baiting. I should know better by now.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 60
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