So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really?

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So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 8:41:15 AM

The Bantam Menace

Posts: 185
Joined: 21/5/2007

In the excellent Batman article in the mag someone clearly says that Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. I seem to remember that the end of Batman Begins Jim Gordon showing Batman a playing card with a Joker on it. Batman then says he's gonna investigate and runs off.
Is that sequel bainting?

Post #: 1

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 8:59:26 AM

thedrin

Posts: 546
Joined: 9/1/2007
From: Ireland

I read an article or interview a few years back where Nolan said or was quoted as saying that they didn't put that scene into Batman Begins with the intention of it leading onto a sequel. It was only after the film proved to be very popular (though not necessarily because it proved to be very popular) that he and his co-screenwirters decided that they wanted to return to the material. That scene was in the film for another reason which I don't remember.

< Message edited by thedrin -- 8/6/2012 9:01:34 AM >

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Post #: 2

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 9:48:30 AM

elab49

Posts: 51579
Joined: 1/10/2005

Did anyone actually believe him? At the end of one film when he wants to do another he leaves with a tease of the greatest villain in the Batman cannon who, as it turns out, appears in the sequel. Yeh - there was a completely different good reason for that.

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Post #: 3

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 10:10:22 AM

Discodez

Posts: 777
Joined: 2/9/2010

I never believed him when he said that either! They all knew when they put that final scene in that Bat-fans would be salivating like dogs for the sequel.

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Post #: 4

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 11:16:47 AM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

I remember reading at the time how the reference to the Joker had a double intention - were the film to be successful then it would hint at a sequel, but were it not to be then it could be deemed a fairly clean tie-in to the Burton movies (Wayne murderer excepted).

Lets not forget that the project that eventually resulted in Batman Begins did initially start out as a prequel to the existing Burton and Schumacher films too, so this is kinda sorta believable.

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Post #: 5

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 12:22:12 PM

jcthefirst

Posts: 4076
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor

Yeah, I'm with elab on this.

Besides, it's Batman. Did any of you think it wouldn't lead to sequels even without the Joker card bit at the end?

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Post #: 6

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 12:46:58 PM

Dirk Miggler

Posts: 823
Joined: 14/1/2009

Its a great scene, and probably the best example of sequel baiting done right and with the events in Begins the films ending was always going to leave a feeling of 'more to come'. The joker card was just a smart move and was the icing on the cake, it really got people going for a sequel.

So yeah, Nolan was talking out of his arse there.

(in reply to jcthefirst)

Post #: 7

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 1:06:00 PM

jobloffski

Posts: 1837
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere

Nolan often seems disingenuous in his statements, but he does what he does skilfully enough to avoid accusations of being an out and out bullshitter.

Begins ends with good old fashioned 'leave em wanting more' teasing, As well as guaranteeing that whoever directed the sequel (because it apparently wasn't a given that he'd do it even if BB was a hit), they'd have to do a Joker film.

It's sequel baiting AND tying the hands of your successor if you don't stay in post to show that card, at that time.

Storytelling is manipulation of the perceptions/expectations of the person being told the story. Done badly it sets your teeth on edge, done well, it is totally accepted,. And 'incepting' the idea of the Joker being in the sequel was totally the latter.

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 8/6/2012 1:11:32 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 2:32:06 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Nolan often seems disingenuous in his statements, but he does what he does skilfully enough to avoid accusations of being an out and out bullshitter.

Begins ends with good old fashioned 'leave em wanting more' teasing,

Nice point actually. It'd be fair to add that description to the end of Inception too, which I'm 99% certain will never see sequelisation.

(in reply to jobloffski)

Post #: 9

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 5:11:07 PM

jon5000

Posts: 1087
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA

Maybe he felt obliged to do that by the studio? After all, it was his first film on that scale in terms of production and budget, so maybe there was an own-ice to have that device on the end for the franchise rather than his own artistic tastes?

I mean, he didn't do it in TDK.

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Post #: 10

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 5:47:08 PM

jobloffski

Posts: 1837
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere

No, he didn't foreshadow the next special guest vilain, but he ended the film with Batman injured, on the run, taking the blame for a number of murders, Gordon having to pretend to be hunting Batman down, with Batman likely for some time to be hated and despised by the very people he had devoted his life to protecting.

So he left the story in chaos, needing completion, another (admittedly more sophisticated) way of baiting the hook sequel wise. And regardless of not picking the next film up directly from there, the aftermath of the end of TDK will be conveyed SOMEHOW during TDKR.

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 8/6/2012 5:58:39 PM >

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Post #: 11

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 6:13:48 PM

thedrin

Posts: 546
Joined: 9/1/2007
From: Ireland

quote:

Elab:
Did anyone actually believe him? At the end of one film when he wants to do another he leaves with a tease of the greatest villain in the Batman cannon who, as it turns out, appears in the sequel. Yeh - there was a completely different good reason for that.

What I referred to was something said circa 2008 in the run up to The Dark Knight. I've no doubt that the studio always intended there to be sequels, but I'm content to believe that Nolan wasn't always interested in doing it.

< Message edited by thedrin -- 8/6/2012 6:15:20 PM >

(in reply to jobloffski)

Post #: 12

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 6:15:35 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

Maybe he felt obliged to do that by the studio? After all, it was his first film on that scale in terms of production and budget, so maybe there was an own-ice to have that device on the end for the franchise rather than his own artistic tastes?

I mean, he didn't do it in TDK.

This.

Nolan was a risk for the studio at the time and didnt have nearly the same clout while he was filming begins as he does now.Maybe he didnt like putting that Joker card in at the end but was pretty much '' encouraged '' to do so.

(in reply to jon5000)

Post #: 13

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 6:17:30 PM

Dirk Miggler

Posts: 823
Joined: 14/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

Maybe he felt obliged to do that by the studio? After all, it was his first film on that scale in terms of production and budget, so maybe there was an own-ice to have that device on the end for the franchise rather than his own artistic tastes?

I mean, he didn't do it in TDK.

This.

Nolan was a risk for the studio at the time and didnt have nearly the same clout while he was filming begins as he does now.Maybe he didnt like putting that Joker card in at the end but was pretty much '' encouraged '' to do so.

Well I'm glad he did, it's ace !

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 14

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 8/6/2012 6:23:44 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1625
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

Maybe he felt obliged to do that by the studio? After all, it was his first film on that scale in terms of production and budget, so maybe there was an own-ice to have that device on the end for the franchise rather than his own artistic tastes?

I mean, he didn't do it in TDK.

This.

Nolan was a risk for the studio at the time and didnt have nearly the same clout while he was filming begins as he does now.Maybe he didnt like putting that Joker card in at the end but was pretty much '' encouraged '' to do so.

Well I'm glad he did, it's ace !

Agreed.It was the perfect end to a truly great Batman origin story.

(in reply to Dirk Miggler)

Post #: 15

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 9/6/2012 5:16:54 AM

giggity

Posts: 240
Joined: 4/3/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Nolan often seems disingenuous in his statements, but he does what he does skilfully enough to avoid accusations of being an out and out bullshitter.

Begins ends with good old fashioned 'leave em wanting more' teasing, As well as guaranteeing that whoever directed the sequel (because it apparently wasn't a given that he'd do it even if BB was a hit), they'd have to do a Joker film.

It's sequel baiting AND tying the hands of your successor if you don't stay in post to show that card, at that time.

Storytelling is manipulation of the perceptions/expectations of the person being told the story. Done badly it sets your teeth on edge, done well, it is totally accepted,. And 'incepting' the idea of the Joker being in the sequel was totally the latter.

What makes you say that?

As for the actual question of if it's sequel baiting or not. Has anyone here read Batman: Year One? I ask because the ending in that is almost the same as the ending of Batman Begins, and because Begins was based mostly on Year One, I always saw it as more of influenced by that. I mean i'm sure Warner Brothers was more than happy they were teasing the Joker (and more films) at the end of the film and didnt object at all but i think in Nolan's and Goyer's minds, it was more about using something from the comic.

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Post #: 16

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 9/6/2012 5:20:57 PM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity

As for the actual question of if it's sequel baiting or not. Has anyone here read Batman: Year One? I ask because the ending in that is almost the same as the ending of Batman Begins, and because Begins was based mostly on Year One, I always saw it as more of influenced by that. I mean i'm sure Warner Brothers was more than happy they were teasing the Joker (and more films) at the end of the film and didnt object at all but i think in Nolan's and Goyer's minds, it was more about using something from the comic.

Yeah, reading through the thread I was just about to say that I'd always assumed it was a homage to that comic and really nothing more than that.

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Post #: 17

RE: So Chris Nolan doesn't do sequel baiting. Really? - 19/6/2012 9:53:20 PM

OldGrey

Posts: 439
Joined: 4/2/2006
From: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity

As for the actual question of if it's sequel baiting or not. Has anyone here read Batman: Year One? I ask because the ending in that is almost the same as the ending of Batman Begins, and because Begins was based mostly on Year One, I always saw it as more of influenced by that. I mean i'm sure Warner Brothers was more than happy they were teasing the Joker (and more films) at the end of the film and didnt object at all but i think in Nolan's and Goyer's minds, it was more about using something from the comic.

Yeah, reading through the thread I was just about to say that I'd always assumed it was a homage to that comic and really nothing more than that.

I feel the same - while a big deal was made at the time that this wasn't a movie version of Year One, it has several references to Year One including that ending which is near identical ! There are also quotes from Year One in the film as well as direct plot lifts.
Whether this is sequel baiting or not is anyones guess but it is certainly not proved by the ending to Batman begins alone !

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