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RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:54:49 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
With Vickers there is nothing in the film to support the idea she is anything other than what she is - the bitter, driven daugther of a trillionaire who is bitter about not having a son.


Okay then, if there is nothing in the film to support the idea that she is an android then how come so many of us have come out of the film convinced that she is one?

Re - Weyland being a trillionaire who is bitter about not having a son - I'm fairly sure we're in a position right now where one can decide on the sex of their baby. Surely its safe to presume that in the world of Prometheus such breakthroughs are very much of the norm? Especially for trillionaires who can seemingly still have kids way in to the twilight of their years.

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Post #: 121
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:56:47 PM   
The REAL Bozz


Posts: 3285
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I thought she was a bloke 'cause the med pod was only set up for fella's The avp wikki even lists her as Waylands son. hahaha

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Post #: 122
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:56:54 PM   
Nihilism in the UK

 

Posts: 111
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From: That house on Paper street.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nihilism in the UK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

I've just remembered something from the film in relation to a question posed by a forumite; what were the Engineer's running from? What could have been so terrifying that caused them to flee with their lives? We can all agree it wasn't the black goo or the acid -wielding snakes.



It's my belief that the Engineers were running from whatever comes out of the space jockey in Alien.


Errr different ship, different planet fella..


I don't think so. I thought this film was about explaining how that derelict ship in Alien gets there. The xenomorph that is birthed at the end must be a queen that will lay all of those eggs inside the derelict that the Nostromo crew will discover. That coupled with Shaw recording that warning transmission that the Nostromo will pick up. It makes sense.

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Post #: 123
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:58:39 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9050
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nihilism in the UK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nihilism in the UK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

I've just remembered something from the film in relation to a question posed by a forumite; what were the Engineer's running from? What could have been so terrifying that caused them to flee with their lives? We can all agree it wasn't the black goo or the acid -wielding snakes.



It's my belief that the Engineers were running from whatever comes out of the space jockey in Alien.


Errr different ship, different planet fella..


I don't think so. I thought this film was about explaining how that derelict ship in Alien gets there. The xenomorph that is birthed at the end must be a queen that will lay all of those eggs inside the derelict that the Nostromo crew will discover. That coupled with Shaw recording that warning transmission that the Nostromo will pick up. It makes sense.



It is definitely a different ship and a different planet. The planets have different names for starters

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Post #: 124
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:59:33 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

He seems pretty chilled by her opposing attitude in their scene together.


I'd blame Pearce's terrible make-up on that. The guy is like a walking piece of plastic!

Interestingly Pearce spent 20 days filming. Wonder if that translates in to anything substantial?

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Post #: 125
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:00:11 PM   
The REAL Bozz


Posts: 3285
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Scott confirmed it's a different planet and ship. End of.

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Post #: 126
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:00:33 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
With Vickers there is nothing in the film to support the idea she is anything other than what she is - the bitter, driven daugther of a trillionaire who is bitter about not having a son.


Okay then, if there is nothing in the film to support the idea that she is an android then how come so many of us have come out of the film convinced that she is one?

Re - Weyland being a trillionaire who is bitter about not having a son - I'm fairly sure we're in a position right now where one can decide on the sex of their baby. Surely its safe to presume that in the world of Prometheus such breakthroughs are very much of the norm? Especially for trillionaires who can seemingly still have kids way in to the twilight of their years.


I think you guys are trying to find meaning to a character that at the end of the day didn't contribute much to the film at all. To fill that gap you are creating a background that isn't there, and using the jokey comment by Elba to put it forward.

There is nothing in the film to suggest Weyland is interested in developing his androids further. There is nothing in the film to suggest Weyland and Vickers are anything other than what they are - you want a comparison - Gladiator and the relationship between the Emperor and his daughter. This is contained in Scott's work.

Mostly there is nothing to be gained from Vickers being in an android - it doesn't add a layer to the film because there is no pay off.

The arc is David and the pay off is - when his creator dies, does he begin a journey of gaining that soul Weyland said he lacked? Does it take the death of God for his beings to tread their own path. Vickers isn't in that debate.

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Post #: 127
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:00:39 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nihilism in the UK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nihilism in the UK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

I've just remembered something from the film in relation to a question posed by a forumite; what were the Engineer's running from? What could have been so terrifying that caused them to flee with their lives? We can all agree it wasn't the black goo or the acid -wielding snakes.



It's my belief that the Engineers were running from whatever comes out of the space jockey in Alien.


Errr different ship, different planet fella..


I don't think so. I thought this film was about explaining how that derelict ship in Alien gets there. The xenomorph that is birthed at the end must be a queen that will lay all of those eggs inside the derelict that the Nostromo crew will discover. That coupled with Shaw recording that warning transmission that the Nostromo will pick up. It makes sense.



It is definitely a different ship and a different planet. The planets have different names for starters


Yep, 100% different planet and ship. Scott goes in to this in last weeks Kermode/Mayo podcast if you want further proof.

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Post #: 128
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:01:04 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1106
Joined: 14/1/2009
I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you here Girv, you could say that Vickers shows just as many if not more minor character points/flaws (cold, calculating, unsympathetic) than what you would to use to argue a case for Ash. Not discounting the med-pod being designed for a man, would Vickers even need it ? And the whole scene with Elba, which is open to interpretation, did she have have sex to prove she is indeed human or was it done to simply silence his claims.

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Post #: 129
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:02:36 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
As for Weyland and the kids - simply we do not know. Maybe he did have sons at some point but they died - look at the Kennedy family. Not impossible to imagine. Maybe Weyland had genetic issues. Who knows? We can only go by what the film tells us, and I simply do not see anything but wishful thinking on the part of some of you about Vickers not being real.

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Post #: 130
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:02:41 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I think you guys are trying to find meaning to a character that at the end of the day didn't contribute much to the film at all. To fill that gap you are creating a background that isn't there, and using the jokey comment by Elba to put it forward.

There is nothing in the film to suggest Weyland is interested in developing his androids further. There is nothing in the film to suggest Weyland and Vickers are anything other than what they are - you want a comparison - Gladiator and the relationship between the Emperor and his daughter. This is contained in Scott's work.


That may well be the case, but its funny that so many people came out of the screening making the same sort of speculation. Interesting.


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Post #: 131
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:04:17 PM   
The REAL Bozz


Posts: 3285
Joined: 15/5/2007
I think it's gonner be confirmed sooner or later she's human guys. Much as I'd like to think otherwise. I think Rgirvan may have a point. Her character ultimately went nowhere. It was stupid. But there you go.

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Post #: 132
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:05:20 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you here Girv, you could say that Vickers shows just as many if not more minor character points/flaws (cold, calculating, unsympathetic) than what you would to use to argue a case for Ash. Not discounting the med-pod being designed for a man, would Vickers even need it ? And the whole scene with Elba, which is open to interpretation, did she have have sex to prove she is indeed human or was it done to simply silence his claims.


The pod was for Weyland. She knew her father was there - if they needed to escape from something, there would be a place for him.

Vickers being cold - well that is her character. Cold, driven, bitter - Ash was VERY different from that. He was curious, a little perverted and interested in the creature.

As for her having sex - she is clearly just after some fun. The scene is to give her a little humanity and show that she is in fact not the ice queen they all say she is.

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Post #: 133
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:06:38 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9050
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

He seems pretty chilled by her opposing attitude in their scene together.


I'd blame Pearce's terrible make-up on that. The guy is like a walking piece of plastic!

Interestingly Pearce spent 20 days filming. Wonder if that translates in to anything substantial?




Interestingly, Weyland is seen in one of the trailers in the background of the scene where Fifeld mutant goes on a rampage and some of the space suited guys are shooting at it. He is hobbling behind them. More evidence that big changes occured in the edit with this as it seems that Weyland and co were making their way to the buggy to go to the derelict ship at the same time as Fifeld mutant returns and goes ape in an original cut, whereas in the actual movie Weyland is now not in the scene.

Here, you can see him on the left of frame:



I'm absolutely fascinated now with what the hell actually went on behind the scenes with Prometheus and what the movie might have originally been. It feels like so much has been cut and altered and snippets from early trailers, coupled with those images from the art book have me absolutely convinced that huge changes were made, potentially very late in the game

< Message edited by DONOVAN KURTWOOD -- 6/6/2012 7:11:27 PM >


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Post #: 134
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:09:28 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I think you guys are trying to find meaning to a character that at the end of the day didn't contribute much to the film at all. To fill that gap you are creating a background that isn't there, and using the jokey comment by Elba to put it forward.

There is nothing in the film to suggest Weyland is interested in developing his androids further. There is nothing in the film to suggest Weyland and Vickers are anything other than what they are - you want a comparison - Gladiator and the relationship between the Emperor and his daughter. This is contained in Scott's work.


That may well be the case, but its funny that so many people came out of the screening making the same sort of speculation. Interesting.




I think this is what happens with a film which offers so much, but gives so little back. We are starting to create the film we want, and not the one that is on the screen. And I say this as someone as you know, who really likes it.

And as for why some have come out thinking that - well all the interviews and pre release speculation contained coy jokes about it. But that is just building hype and trying to draw people away from the true background to her character.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 135
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:10:58 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
"There may be two..." Ridley Scott talking about Androids in Prometheus, at comic-con last year. Link to the video here -

http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2414

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Post #: 136
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:12:22 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9050
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

"There may be two..." Ridley Scott talking about Androids in Prometheus, at comic-con last year. Link to the video here -

http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2414


See i remember that quote and was waiting for some kind of reveal in the movie. I honestly felt like we were just misled after seeing the movie. But i agree with you in that it's interesting that some of us are seeing things one way and some another

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Post #: 137
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:12:25 PM   
Scruffybobby

 

Posts: 4324
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: My House
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you here Girv, you could say that Vickers shows just as many if not more minor character points/flaws (cold, calculating, unsympathetic) than what you would to use to argue a case for Ash. Not discounting the med-pod being designed for a man, would Vickers even need it ? And the whole scene with Elba, which is open to interpretation, did she have have sex to prove she is indeed human or was it done to simply silence his claims.


The pod was for Weyland. She knew her father was there - if they needed to escape from something, there would be a place for him.

Vickers being cold - well that is her character. Cold, driven, bitter - Ash was VERY different from that. He was curious, a little perverted and interested in the creature.

As for her having sex - she is clearly just after some fun. The scene is to give her a little humanity and show that she is in fact not the ice queen they all say she is.


I'd have to agree with Girv here. I can kinda see where people are going with the android thing but that's only after the idea was raised here. I never got any kind of "robot vibe" from her whilst I was watching.


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Post #: 138
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:12:57 PM   
The REAL Bozz


Posts: 3285
Joined: 15/5/2007
Yeah but why not reveal it in Prometheus if she was one? A sequel may not even happen. It should. But it may not.

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Post #: 139
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:13:22 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

"There may be two..." Ridley Scott talking about Androids in Prometheus, at comic-con last year. Link to the video here -

http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2414


But there weren't two. Maybe there was at that point in an older script or maybe he was just being playful to hide the Weyland connection, who knows? We only have the film as it is, and the character as presented, to go by.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 140
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:13:31 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9050
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: The REAL Bozz

Yeah but why not reveal it in Prometheus if she was one? A sequel may not even happen. It should. But it may not.


This.

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Post #: 141
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:14:07 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9050
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

"There may be two..." Ridley Scott talking about Androids in Prometheus, at comic-con last year. Link to the video here -

http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2414


But there weren't two. Maybe there was at that point in an older script or maybe he was just being playful to hide the Weyland connection, who knows? We only have the film as it is, and the character as presented, to go by.


And im convinced that so many changes were made, im sure at one point there were two. they just changed it

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Post #: 142
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:14:17 PM   
The REAL Bozz


Posts: 3285
Joined: 15/5/2007
Getting crushed by the ship. You can't more final that that.

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Post #: 143
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:15:04 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: The REAL Bozz

Yeah but why not reveal it in Prometheus if she was one? A sequel may not even happen. It should. But it may not.


There ain't any bit her that wasn't crushed into soup at the end....

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 144
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:17:15 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

"There may be two..." Ridley Scott talking about Androids in Prometheus, at comic-con last year. Link to the video here -

http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2414


But there weren't two. Maybe there was at that point in an older script or maybe he was just being playful to hide the Weyland connection, who knows? We only have the film as it is, and the character as presented, to go by.


And im convinced that so many changes were made, im sure at one point there were two. they just changed it


I remember the "there may be two" comment but it was done with a smile. Remember at that point we had no idea about Weyland and his role. Making everyone think she was a robot and then AHA she is Weylands daughter seems more likley to me.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 145
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:17:57 PM   
The REAL Bozz


Posts: 3285
Joined: 15/5/2007
I should point out to those who are pro Droid-Vickers- there is debate going on at AVPgalaxy forums and IMDB too. So you're not crazy.

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Post #: 146
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:22:19 PM   
Nexus Wookie


Posts: 2326
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

"There may be two..." Ridley Scott talking about Androids in Prometheus, at comic-con last year. Link to the video here -

http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2414


But that doesn't mean there are two, surely? I think the idea of having two androids may have been alluded to, but ultimately didn't make the finished film.

I have to say that I think Vicker's is not an android. As much as that would make sense of her cold character, thats just the way she is. She's a stuck up bitch! I feel the film didn't give too much of a clue whether she was one, for me personally. But its still interesting, and until we get a definite answer from Ridley Scot as to whether Vicker's is or is not an android, this debate may carry on for some time!

< Message edited by Nexus Wookie -- 6/6/2012 7:25:14 PM >


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Post #: 147
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:23:00 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

"There may be two..." Ridley Scott talking about Androids in Prometheus, at comic-con last year. Link to the video here -

http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2414


But there weren't two. Maybe there was at that point in an older script or maybe he was just being playful to hide the Weyland connection, who knows? We only have the film as it is, and the character as presented, to go by.


And im convinced that so many changes were made, im sure at one point there were two. they just changed it


Exactly, the film is a mess, we're trying to draw definitives from something that is chaotically placed together!

(in reply to DONOVAN KURTWOOD)
Post #: 148
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:24:14 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
I think if folks hope there is a Deckard style reveal awaiting them on the Blu Ray...they may be disappointed.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 149
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 7:25:14 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1106
Joined: 14/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you here Girv, you could say that Vickers shows just as many if not more minor character points/flaws (cold, calculating, unsympathetic) than what you would to use to argue a case for Ash. Not discounting the med-pod being designed for a man, would Vickers even need it ? And the whole scene with Elba, which is open to interpretation, did she have have sex to prove she is indeed human or was it done to simply silence his claims.


The pod was for Weyland. She knew her father was there - if they needed to escape from something, there would be a place for him.

Vickers being cold - well that is her character. Cold, driven, bitter - Ash was VERY different from that. He was curious, a little perverted and interested in the creature.

As for her having sex - she is clearly just after some fun. The scene is to give her a little humanity and show that she is in fact not the ice queen they all say she is.


Like I said, open to interpretation.

So how would that infer Ash to be anymore of an Android than Vickers exacltly ? Ash was a medical science officer so that would suggest he might develop a curiousity for things. Vickers is cold and calculating but she is a boardroom member and top Exec of Weyland Corpand Corps ? David takes an interest in Peter O'Toole and shooting hoops but he was on is own on a ship for two years. What's to say that Androids especially different models share the same traits/interests, they would be designed to excel in any area they are put in hence the differences.

< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 6/6/2012 8:49:32 PM >

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Post #: 150
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