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RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 1:37:47 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
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From: PLANET G
I dont believe Vickers was a synthetic.

They completely wasted her character 100%, man that was frustrating. What's the point in writing her escape from the Prometheus only to crush her literally moments later? Her death sealed the deal that her character serves absolutely zero purpose in the story and does absolutely nothing whatsoever of any relevance in the end. I was expecting that there was going to be something of note that she would do in the finale but no, the writers had nothing for her, rendering her pointless. Also if she is a synthetic, why on earth leave it ambiguous? What purpose does that serve?

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Post #: 91
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 1:39:04 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: st3veebee

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy.

Was Vickers a synthetic?  Absolutely. 


I'm really torn on this: definitely need to see it again.

Comparing her to David: why was she so keen to prove herself as human to Elba? Being "anatomically correct" might be to make the rest of the crew feel more at ease: but being completely believeable as a sexual partner? Really? (I suppose she could be some kind of sexbot- to keep randy crewmen away from the other women).

The father line was interesting: and I kind of aggree it must have been some kind of bladerunner nod: especially considering she was only 30-40 and Weyland was 180? Something doesn't add up.



I'm certain she's an android too. Thats what I figured the "father" reveal to be, but it was just a little too poorly executed. Plus it ties in to the first Alien, in which the Android's true form was kept a secret from the rest of the crew. That David is so openly a 'droid is a bit of a red herring in this respect. Weyland is experimented with Androids that slide in to society unknown. As someone with a younger brother I can see echoes of the relationship between a pair of siblings in the relationship between David and Vickers too (the way in which she orders him around etc)!

The replicants in BR are anatomically correct too (ones a stripper isn't she?), and its implied that Deckard sleeps with Sean Young.

Interesting sidenote - Vickers was the name of a world-renown Sheffield engineering firm. As Scott is from the North of England, and coupled with the companies ubiquitousness in the middle of the 20th Century I doubt this is a coincidence.

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Post #: 92
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 1:42:03 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
If she is an android then her agenda is at odds with her fathers agenda, as she torches Holloway. David infected him (presumably on instructions from weyland) to see what the black goo would do and Vickers was the one to cut this experiment very short. Why didnt Weyland mention this to Vickers in their scene together?

There are so many gaping holes and inconsistencies in the movie. It was still a very enjoyable film though

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Post #: 93
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 1:43:17 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

I dont believe Vickers was a synthetic.

They completely wasted her character 100%, man that was frustrating. What's the point in writing her escape from the Prometheus only to crush her literally moments later? Her death sealed the deal that her character serves absolutely zero purpose in the story and does absolutely nothing whatsoever of any relevance in the end. I was expecting that there was going to be something of note that she would do in the finale but no, the writers had nothing for her, rendering her pointless.

I disagree. Plus, if she is a synthetic, then theres always the chance that her internals will be backed up.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD
Also if she is a synthetic, why on earth leave it ambiguous? What purpose does that serve?


To groom discussion ala Blade Runner? Plus, if she does actually turn out to be a synthetic then within the world of Prometheus thats a pretty major revelation, in the evolution of he androids in that series (the idea of a synthetic being the heir and eventual head of Weyland is a pretty interesting idea).

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Post #: 94
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 1:46:08 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

I dont believe Vickers was a synthetic.

They completely wasted her character 100%, man that was frustrating. What's the point in writing her escape from the Prometheus only to crush her literally moments later? Her death sealed the deal that her character serves absolutely zero purpose in the story and does absolutely nothing whatsoever of any relevance in the end. I was expecting that there was going to be something of note that she would do in the finale but no, the writers had nothing for her, rendering her pointless.

I disagree. Plus, if she is a synthetic, then theres always the chance that her internals will be backed up.



So what purpose did she serve in the end of the story? Why write her escape from the Prometheus then her death by (frankly) mega stupidity straight after (run to the side Vickers!!!!! )

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Post #: 95
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 1:57:10 PM   
Nexus Wookie


Posts: 2326
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: st3veebee

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy.

Was Vickers a synthetic?  Absolutely. 


I'm really torn on this: definitely need to see it again.

Comparing her to David: why was she so keen to prove herself as human to Elba? Being "anatomically correct" might be to make the rest of the crew feel more at ease: but being completely believeable as a sexual partner? Really? (I suppose she could be some kind of sexbot- to keep randy crewmen away from the other women).

The father line was interesting: and I kind of aggree it must have been some kind of bladerunner nod: especially considering she was only 30-40 and Weyland was 180? Something doesn't add up.



I'm certain she's an android too. Thats what I figured the "father" reveal to be, but it was just a little too poorly executed. Plus it ties in to the first Alien, in which the Android's true form was kept a secret from the rest of the crew. That David is so openly a 'droid is a bit of a red herring in this respect. Weyland is experimented with Androids that slide in to society unknown. As someone with a younger brother I can see echoes of the relationship between a pair of siblings in the relationship between David and Vickers too (the way in which she orders him around etc)!

The replicants in BR are anatomically correct too (ones a stripper isn't she?), and its implied that Deckard sleeps with Sean Young.

Interesting sidenote - Vickers was the name of a world-renown Sheffield engineering firm. As Scott is from the North of England, and coupled with the companies ubiquitousness in the middle of the 20th Century I doubt this is a coincidence.



Wow! I think Prometheus has started a 'is she or isn't she' debate, much like Blade Runner before it (but on a lesser scale?). So instead of Deck-A-Rep, we now have Vick-A-Rep!

I love how this film is generating so much debate amongst the fan's! The truth is, whether you liked the fil m or not, it does pose some questions. Whether it be Vickers, the Engineer's, Fifield's resurrection, or the sex of the Xenomorph towards the end!

I myself am currently on the fence about whether Vicker's is an andoird or not, I think there's valid reason's for and against her being one. But I felt her demise was very poor. Adambatman82 makes a very interesting point about the sibling rivalry aspects.

So many questions!

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Post #: 96
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 2:02:58 PM   
st3veebee


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From: 9303 Lyon Drive
We first see Vickers exercising alone after being in hypersleep: what's the point in an android exercising and sweating profusely (presuming that was sweat).

Why was she so concerned with saving herself when Elba decided to kamikazee?

THis is where more footage would infintely help the film: more background on VIckers character would have been brilliant.





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Post #: 97
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 2:49:44 PM   
Nexus Wookie


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Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity
I've just remembered something from the film in relation to a question posed by a forumite; what were the Engineer's running from? What could have been so terrifying that caused them to flee with their lives? We can all agree it wasn't the black goo or the acid -wielding snakes.

I remember David, just before opening the doors to the main chamber, touching something on the wall, something green and sticky which is asscociated with the certain presence of Xenomorph's so this leads me to believe that it was a Xenomorph which may have been accidently created/released aboard the ship and responsible for their deaths. Did anyone else remember that small moment when David touches the green slime and sniff's it? He said something on the lines of 'interesting' aswell, but i've forgotten. This film definitely merits a second viewing!

< Message edited by Nexus Wookie -- 6/6/2012 2:51:10 PM >


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Post #: 98
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 2:57:32 PM   
sharkboy


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From: Belfast
We never know exactly what her agenda was, only that it was often contrary to David's - he was all in favour of getting Weyland to the surviving engineer, she was dead set against any contact.  Perhaps that's more why she torched Holloway (and in tying in with the sibling rivalry theory, don't forget her total lack of amusement when hologram Weyland described David as his son) - to spite David.   Or perhaps her main agenda was just the safety of her ship and crew. 

Or here's one to ponder - what if she doesn't accept that she's synthetic?  Remember the trailer that featured Weyland's presentation?  He declared that he wanted to make androids that were totally indistinguishable from humans - wouldn't that include mental development as well as physical traits (including sweating)?  In the trailer, Weyland claims that to do this would be to become God.  Maybe Vickers is an atheist.

Oh, and one other thing - we never see Vickers in cryosleep.  Our first view of her is when she is doing push-ups in her undies.  Whos to say that she hadn't been awake the whole trip as well and was just doing her usual morning routine?

I get the feeling that any future director's cut will either have us all nodding in realisation or screaming blue murder!

< Message edited by sharkboy -- 6/6/2012 3:00:01 PM >


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Post #: 99
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 3:08:51 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

I dont believe Vickers was a synthetic.

They completely wasted her character 100%, man that was frustrating. What's the point in writing her escape from the Prometheus only to crush her literally moments later? Her death sealed the deal that her character serves absolutely zero purpose in the story and does absolutely nothing whatsoever of any relevance in the end. I was expecting that there was going to be something of note that she would do in the finale but no, the writers had nothing for her, rendering her pointless.

I disagree. Plus, if she is a synthetic, then theres always the chance that her internals will be backed up.



So what purpose did she serve in the end of the story? Why write her escape from the Prometheus then her death by (frankly) mega stupidity straight after (run to the side Vickers!!!!! )


Her purpose was two-fold - she was the sceptic to Rapace's believer, and she is (and this is presuming she is an android) the roots of the stealthily placed android amongst unknowing colleagues. This is a theme that continues in to Alien with Ash.

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Post #: 100
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 3:13:56 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

We never know exactly what her agenda was, only that it was often contrary to David's - he was all in favour of getting Weyland to the surviving engineer, she was dead set against any contact.


And she wanted her dad dead so she could take over the "family" business, which in itself leads to the rather tantalising notion of an android being in charge of Weyland.

I tells ya, she's backed up somewhere, and a replacement Vickers will open Prometheus 2! We already know that there is more than one "David" based on the way in which he dyes his hair blonde (ala Peter O'Toole in Larry of Arabia) to stand out from the rest of his brethren. Vickers is a sign of a more advanced, people fooling android that comes to fruition with Ash.

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Post #: 101
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 3:23:03 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
If shes an android shes the worst programmed one ever as she goes completely against the wishes/ ideals of her creator/ programmer, weyland. It just doesnt make sense to me! I fully accept that others think she is but i really dont, and it doesnt make sense that she is based on her actions in the movie! I guess its good that we're all taking different things from it though. I just hope we do get that sequel otherwise all this is moot. I just cant understand this and cant see any way of it being revealed in the sequel as being a lame copout. 'Surprise! We fooled you! Shes an android!' Itll just seem like they decided on it after the fact.

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Post #: 102
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 4:40:18 PM   
Nihilism in the UK

 

Posts: 111
Joined: 26/2/2011
From: That house on Paper street.

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

I dont believe Vickers was a synthetic.

They completely wasted her character 100%, man that was frustrating. What's the point in writing her escape from the Prometheus only to crush her literally moments later? Her death sealed the deal that her character serves absolutely zero purpose in the story and does absolutely nothing whatsoever of any relevance in the end. I was expecting that there was going to be something of note that she would do in the finale but no, the writers had nothing for her, rendering her pointless.

I disagree. Plus, if she is a synthetic, then theres always the chance that her internals will be backed up.



So what purpose did she serve in the end of the story? Why write her escape from the Prometheus then her death by (frankly) mega stupidity straight after (run to the side Vickers!!!!! )


Her purpose was two-fold - she was the sceptic to Rapace's believer, and she is (and this is presuming she is an android) the roots of the stealthily placed android amongst unknowing colleagues. This is a theme that continues in to Alien with Ash.


And also into Resurection with Call don't forget.

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Post #: 103
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 4:51:06 PM   
Nihilism in the UK

 

Posts: 111
Joined: 26/2/2011
From: That house on Paper street.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

I've just remembered something from the film in relation to a question posed by a forumite; what were the Engineer's running from? What could have been so terrifying that caused them to flee with their lives? We can all agree it wasn't the black goo or the acid -wielding snakes.



It's my belief that the Engineers were running from whatever comes out of the space jockey in Alien.

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Post #: 104
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 5:35:50 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1106
Joined: 14/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nihilism in the UK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

I've just remembered something from the film in relation to a question posed by a forumite; what were the Engineer's running from? What could have been so terrifying that caused them to flee with their lives? We can all agree it wasn't the black goo or the acid -wielding snakes.



It's my belief that the Engineers were running from whatever comes out of the space jockey in Alien.


Errr different ship, different planet fella..

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Post #: 105
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 5:52:14 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Unless there is something cut from the film about it, then no way is Vickers an android. There is depth in the film, but not that much!

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Post #: 106
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:01:29 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1106
Joined: 14/1/2009
What depth was their in Alien with regards Ash ? It was never implied or hinted he was an android up until the reveal, I can't see why Vickers can't be and why it would be any worse for it.

< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 6/6/2012 6:02:14 PM >

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Post #: 107
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:17:10 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
But why not reveal it in the movie then? It just seems odd. Let's say there's a sequel and that vickers was indeed an android, and she's in it. People will just say that they decided after the fact. Especially as there's a scene in prometheus where they joke about it and then go to lengths to indicate she's not (janek flirtation as apparent intercourse).

Another thing i was thinking about and puzzled by is this: How come,. when they witness the hologram of the three space jockeys running from something, the jockeys are all wearing the elephantine mask? The movie shows us clearly that the trunk mask ONLY comes on when they get into the chair to fly the ship. There are 3 of them wearing the mask, but the mask is part of the chair that forms over them. Even if its not, how come 3 of them have the pilot mask on when theyre in the area of only the one ship? it doesn't make any sense to me.

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Post #: 108
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:37:44 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1106
Joined: 14/1/2009
I can't really answer that Donovan, withought going into "wild theory" territory, I suppose you could dsay that in Alien the company does possibly have prior knowledge of the the Jockeys/alien that's even before seeing this film. With Prometheus destroyed, all the crew and scientists dead and with Shaw and David off galaxy trotting, where's the link ? It could be Vickers.

Personally I doubt people would imply that it was after the fact as its quite clearly implied she could be on more than one occasion. The death scene is a bit ambiguous as we see Shaw walking away from the exact same situation two minutes later.

Ridley could just be throwing red herrings all over the place though but it's still fun to speculate.

< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 6/6/2012 6:39:13 PM >

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Post #: 109
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:42:32 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
check these out, from the Art of Prometheus book. Solid proof that fifeld initially was supposed to transform into some kind of creature and that they didnt end up either showing it, or shooting it. Man i wish we couldve gone down this route more:






Thanks to Robotpo at prometheus Forums.

It just convinces me even more that SO MUCH was cut out of this movie.

< Message edited by DONOVAN KURTWOOD -- 6/6/2012 6:45:08 PM >


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Post #: 110
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:42:54 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

What depth was their in Alien with regards Ash ? It was never implied or hinted he was an android up until the reveal, I can't see why Vickers can't be and why it would be any worse for it.


There was loads of depth to Ash in Alien - not least the slightly perverted side he seemed to have. And the whole point about it not being revealed was that it would shock audiences.

With Vickers there is nothing in the film to support the idea she is anything other than what she is - the bitter, driven daugther of a trillionaire who is bitter about not having a son.

What would the point of her being an android be? She doesn't do anything to suggest she is an andriod and there is no pay off within the film. The comment asking if she is one is a joke about her icy she is - the pay off is the fact she sleeps with him.

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Post #: 111
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:43:45 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

I can't really answer that Donovan, withought going into "wild theory" territory, I suppose you could dsay that in Alien the company does possibly have prior knowledge of the the Jockeys/alien that's even before seeing this film. With Prometheus destroyed, all the crew and scientists dead and with Shaw and David off galaxy trotting, where's the link ? It could be Vickers.

Personally I doubt people would imply that it was after the fact as its quite clearly implied she could be on more than one occasion. The death scene is a bit ambiguous as we see Shaw walking away from the exact same situation two minutes later.

Ridley could just be throwing red herrings all over the place though but it's still fun to speculate.


Oh i totally agree, the fun is in the speculation. I guess the movie is doing something right if we're discussing it so much and have different takes on events and characters!

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Post #: 112
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:43:59 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
Kinda gutted they didn't go down that path DK. I really wanna know went on behind the scenes with this film...

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Post #: 113
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:44:14 PM   
The REAL Bozz


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This debate is great. I love it. Here's what I think. I saw the film. I saw her death. I thought it was stupid. Really silly, as DK said. Do I think she's a droid??? No. I don't. BUT if she came back as one there is enough hints to back up such a reveal and that's where I disagree with DK. It would defo not look like they just decided to bring her back for the sake of it. Put it this way. I wouldn't roll my eyes if she did pop back in a sequel. But I don't think she will. I think she's crushed. I think she's peatnut butter. Sadly.

I'm ignoring those pics DK. I wanna buy the Art of book and be wowed! lol.

< Message edited by The REAL Bozz -- 6/6/2012 6:45:27 PM >


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Post #: 114
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:45:06 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD
If shes an android shes the worst programmed one ever as she goes completely against the wishes/ ideals of her creator/ programmer, weyland. It just doesnt make sense to me!


Thats kind of the point being made though - she's an advanced, more evolved version of David. A big sister. We've seen that David can be manipulated (programmed) in to being devious, the manner in which computers work (a form learned behaviour) makes it perfectly appropriate for one to believe that the next model would have an evolved form of the artificial intelligence groomed on David.

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Post #: 115
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:47:06 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD
If shes an android shes the worst programmed one ever as she goes completely against the wishes/ ideals of her creator/ programmer, weyland. It just doesnt make sense to me!


Thats kind of the point being made though - she's an advanced, more evolved version of David. A big sister. We've seen that David can be manipulated (programmed) in to being devious, the manner in which computers work (a form learned behaviour) makes it perfectly appropriate for one to believe that the next model would have an evolved form of the artificial intelligence groomed on David.



But what gets me is that Weyland doesnt seem bothered by this at all! She could totally screw up his plans in every way as she inherently disagrees with what hes doing! He seems pretty chilled by her opposing attitude in their scene together.

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Post #: 116
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:48:50 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: The REAL Bozz

This debate is great. I love it. Here's what I think. I saw the film. I saw her death. I thought it was stupid. Really silly, as DK said. Do I think she's a droid??? No. I don't. BUT if she came back as one there is enough hints to back up such a reveal and that's where I disagree with DK. It would defo not look like they just decided to bring her back for the sake of it. Put it this way. I wouldn't roll my eyes if she did pop back in a sequel. But I don't think she will. I think she's crushed. I think she's peatnut butter. Sadly.

I'm ignoring those pics DK. I wanna buy the Art of book and be wowed! lol.


Ha, theyre amazing pics Bozz, you should have a quick peek at least! The death scene was incredibly stupid and pointless. Why build the character up like that AND have her escape from the Prometheus crash, onlly to kill her in such a throwaway and unimaginative manner?

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Post #: 117
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:49:05 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
Seriously where are you guys getting this android stuff from? There is nothing in the film to support it. Not even Blade Runner "glowing eyes" level of debate.

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Post #: 118
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:49:32 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9131
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Kinda gutted they didn't go down that path DK. I really wanna know went on behind the scenes with this film...


You and me both dude. it feels like Fox or someone changed a lot of stuff drastically during the course of this movies production/ post production

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Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 119
RE: PROMETHEUS - 6/6/2012 6:53:00 PM   
The REAL Bozz


Posts: 3285
Joined: 15/5/2007
I know DK. I loved her. David and Vickers where fantastic mate. Loved the two of them. (I didn't care for Shaw at all really) TBH I think they did that to basically catch the auidence off guard. A shock ( silly and stupid) death. She was all about being in control and when she fell on her arse and that ship is coming at her and she's all "No, no, no" it's hitting the point home, in a lame way and because they need to tie her up, she can't always be in control. I think she was human but I'd LOVE it if it came out she was in fact a droid. Great build up, boss character, LAME pay-off. Stupidest part of the film for me.

Or clone her. That could work. Nah, I think she's gone though.

< Message edited by The REAL Bozz -- 6/6/2012 6:54:43 PM >


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Films I've watched
Star Trek Into Darkness ***
Iron Man 3 *****
Evil Dead (2013) ***
Bait 3D ***

(in reply to DONOVAN KURTWOOD)
Post #: 120
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