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RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 9:18:32 AM

Nexus Wookie

Posts: 2247
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShinySteelRobot

In addition to all the other evidence that Vickers is human, I'd like to add that she takes the time to actually put on her space suit and helmet before ejecting from the Prometheus (just prior to its crash into the giant horseshoe Engineer spaceship). Her life was in immediate danger--literally seconds to go before a fiery death--and yet she took the time to put on a suit, and then escaped just in the very nick of time. Doesn't seem like something an android would do.

If she is an android, then she absolutely believes herself to be a human.

Good point! I think if the evidence for and against the Vicker's Android theory was put on a scale, the evidence for Vicker's not being an android would outweigh the evidence for. I have to say that from what i've seen, and my general feeling is that Vicker's is not an Android - but a stuck up human! Much like Deckard, who I also believe to not be a replicant (see my Blade Runner review to see why!)

But one thing i'll say though, is that it does make for an interesting discussion!

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Post #: 271

RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 3:47:57 PM

st3veebee

Posts: 2354
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: 9303 Lyon Drive

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShinySteelRobot

In addition to all the other evidence that Vickers is human, I'd like to add that she takes the time to actually put on her space suit and helmet before ejecting from the Prometheus (just prior to its crash into the giant horseshoe Engineer spaceship). Her life was in immediate danger--literally seconds to go before a fiery death--and yet she took the time to put on a suit, and then escaped just in the very nick of time. Doesn't seem like something an android would do.

If she is an android, then she absolutely believes herself to be a human.

Yes that's an excellent point. Unless Ridley says so I guess we will never know the real answer.

If you were a trillionaire with a few days left to live, going to literally meet your maker and possibly attain some information that could lead to you extending your life or even living forever: would you set up a side experiment involving an android, that doesn't realise it is not human, and put this them in control of your operation while you are in hypersleep?? Especially knowing fine well that normal androids are fantastically loyal and effective?

Is the plot to this film that stupid?

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Post #: 272

RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 4:27:58 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1623
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

The more I think about this film, the more I think the plot makes no sense at all.

A visually interesting film but one that's sabotaged by a nonsensical script.Will still watch an extended DC when/if it arrives on DVD though.

< Message edited by Cool Breeze -- 12/6/2012 4:28:57 PM >

(in reply to st3veebee)

Post #: 273

RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 4:29:39 PM

thatlittlemonkey

Posts: 8082
Joined: 24/10/2005

Just spotted this on the Yahoo homepage. Don't know if anyone has spotted this themselves, yet, but it's quite interesting reading...

Needless to say - SPOILERS! Although, I doubt that would matter to people on this thread.

http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/blogs/editors/prometheus-viral-provides-hints-sequel-theory-113330775.html

Just to chuck my 2p's worth in - have now seen Prometheus twice. With the expectation stripped away (and the drunken annoying cock in the seat next to me that kept chatting to his mate), I found it a much more satisfying experience. I genuinely enjoyed it first time round, but had a lot of questions and somethings jarred with me a bit. These things bugged me much less the second time, plus the foreshadowing and knowledge of what's to come also add to the experience.

On the point of Elizabeth escaping before the surgery bit, it seemed to me she'd KO'd both Ford and the other fella in the room before getting out of there. Took me to the second time to pick that one up. The assumption is that if they're both out cold, no-one else would be aware of the situation.

In terms of Holloway, he comes across as a bit of a dick and not entirely sympathetic until he gets torched. Whether this is a performance thing, an editing thing or a writing thing, I feel he was lacking just a couple of scenes of character development. However, him being an arrogant twat towards David fits in nicely, given his fate and David's role in it. Thou shalt not fuck with the android...

In all, I can understand the negativity, but I can't agree with it. I don't often go to the cinema more than once to see a film, but this compelled me to as there was so much to pore over and discuss. It's a flawed experience, but a thoroughly worthwhile one.

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Post #: 274

RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 4:52:24 PM

Scruffybobby

Posts: 4021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: My House

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The more I think about this film, the more I think the plot makes no sense at all.

A visually interesting film but one that's sabotaged by a nonsensical script.Will still watch an extended DC when/if it arrives on DVD though.

Must resist smartarse remark about Star Wars prequels.......

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49 (via Gizoogle)

Gentleman, please - could our crazy-ass asses leave dis thread ta gangstas wantin ta say shit bout a funky-ass bad film?

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 275

RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 5:00:54 PM

Nexus Wookie

Posts: 2247
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scruffybobby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The more I think about this film, the more I think the plot makes no sense at all.

A visually interesting film but one that's sabotaged by a nonsensical script.Will still watch an extended DC when/if it arrives on DVD though.

Must resist smartarse remark about Star Wars prequels.......

Lol! CB, I think we get the picture mate!

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Post #: 276

RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 7:29:21 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1623
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scruffybobby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The more I think about this film, the more I think the plot makes no sense at all.

A visually interesting film but one that's sabotaged by a nonsensical script.Will still watch an extended DC when/if it arrives on DVD though.

Must resist smartarse remark about Star Wars prequels.......

Why do you mention the SW prequels? Prometheus is sci-fi horror for adults, Star Wars is sci-fi fantasy for ( mostly ) young people.No comparison.

The David infecting Holloway bit bothers me the most.No real explanation given why he does it and these synthetics only do what they are programmed to do.

(in reply to Scruffybobby)

Post #: 277

RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 7:33:22 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18877
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scruffybobby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The more I think about this film, the more I think the plot makes no sense at all.

A visually interesting film but one that's sabotaged by a nonsensical script.Will still watch an extended DC when/if it arrives on DVD though.

Must resist smartarse remark about Star Wars prequels.......

Why do you mention the SW prequels? Prometheus is sci-fi horror for adults, Star Wars is sci-fi fantasy for ( mostly ) young people.No comparison.

The David infecting Holloway bit bothers me the most.No real explanation given why he does it and these synthetics only do what they are programmed to do.

I think he was comparing the scripts and how much sense they made.

But this is not a debate I really want to get into.

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Post #: 278

RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 7:52:48 PM

Scruffybobby

Posts: 4021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: My House

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scruffybobby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The more I think about this film, the more I think the plot makes no sense at all.

A visually interesting film but one that's sabotaged by a nonsensical script.Will still watch an extended DC when/if it arrives on DVD though.

Must resist smartarse remark about Star Wars prequels.......

Why do you mention the SW prequels? Prometheus is sci-fi horror for adults, Star Wars is sci-fi fantasy for ( mostly ) young people.No comparison.

The David infecting Holloway bit bothers me the most.No real explanation given why he does it and these synthetics only do what they are programmed to do.

I think he was comparing the scripts and how much sense they made.

But this is not a debate I really want to get into.

I was actually just being flippant and you bit. But yeah the SW prequel scripts are very poor. And just because they're for kids doesn't excuse them being shite.

Pity that more care wasn't taken with the Prometheus script though. It's a mess, but it is at least an interesting mess

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49 (via Gizoogle)

Gentleman, please - could our crazy-ass asses leave dis thread ta gangstas wantin ta say shit bout a funky-ass bad film?

(in reply to Rgirvan44)

Post #: 279

RE: PROMETHEUS - 12/6/2012 11:43:26 PM

jobloffski

Posts: 1837
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere

quote:

The David infecting Holloway bit bothers me the most.No real explanation given why he does it and these synthetics only do what they are programmed to do.

They do what they are programmed to do but have a measure of free will and aren't completely under the control of their creators, and that crucial element makes them unpredictable. Thematically, his creators are arrogant enough to think he will ONLY do what he is tasked with doing, and that costs his creators (ie people) dear. Just like the Engineers were apparently wiped out by their creation, doing what it was designed to to do, to them...

The created seeking freedom from the control of/equality with their creators...David, in a child like way, and with a lack of conscience equal to that of a child pulling the wings off butterflies just to see what happens, just wants to satisfy his curiosity. Everybody on the Prometheus is curious about what they've found there and what the ooze is for/means. Unfortunately...

God/Engineer creates man with free will, assuming men will praise him and thank him for it. Man decides he'll do what he fecking wants, which could cause problems for God. Man creates Android, and assumes he will do what he is asked to do, but he starts deciding what he WANTS to do, and that is find out what everyone is else is thinking,about, what will the ooze do/what is it for. The logical thing, to the android, is simply just find out.

He's just another spin on the idea/concept of opening doors that perhaps shouldn't be opened, curiosity causing calamity. In fact, he literally opens door that perhaps shouldn't be opened in the film. And he hates his creators for making him just because they could, and as far as he can tell, all children want their parents dead...

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 13/6/2012 12:01:17 AM >

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Post #: 280

RE: PROMETHEUS - 13/6/2012 12:00:18 AM

jobloffski

Posts: 1837
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere

quote:

ORIGINAL: st3veebee

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShinySteelRobot

In addition to all the other evidence that Vickers is human, I'd like to add that she takes the time to actually put on her space suit and helmet before ejecting from the Prometheus (just prior to its crash into the giant horseshoe Engineer spaceship). Her life was in immediate danger--literally seconds to go before a fiery death--and yet she took the time to put on a suit, and then escaped just in the very nick of time. Doesn't seem like something an android would do.

If she is an android, then she absolutely believes herself to be a human.

Yes that's an excellent point. Unless Ridley says so I guess we will never know the real answer.

If you were a trillionaire with a few days left to live, going to literally meet your maker and possibly attain some information that could lead to you extending your life or even living forever: would you set up a side experiment involving an android, that doesn't realise it is not human, and put this them in control of your operation while you are in hypersleep?? Especially knowing fine well that normal androids are fantastically loyal and effective?

Is the plot to this film that stupid?

The android hints may be red herrings, and maybe this is the point: whether Android of Human, it's irrelevant. In terms of the Prometheus myth, she has been rejected/disrespected by her father/creator and is vengeful towards him because of it. This idea, of why our creator abandoned/doesn't love us is delivered in various forms, and literally by Shaw.

She may be an android, she may be an actual daughter to Weyland. Either way, he his her creator, and he has forsaken her. He is 'Prometheus' in seeking to achieve the power to create, She is 'Prometheus' in terms of looking at her creator with disapproving eyes at how the creator considers her inferior. Shaw is 'Prometheus' in wanting to look her 'gods' face to face in the first place and she suffers the 'punishment' most directly tied to the Prometheus myth: abdominal trauma, suffered repeatedly.

Blah blah blah, etc

_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to st3veebee)

Post #: 281

RE: PROMETHEUS - 13/6/2012 12:31:49 AM

Rich Empire

Posts: 898
Joined: 6/12/2005
From: London

Saw it again today, still enjoying it lots.
Pure Syd Mead business!!! A true feast for the senses.

I found two very interesting links to check out.
One regarding the sensational Production Design.
(Very interesting ideas about Peter Weyland as well).
http://io9.com/prometheus/

The other link is regarding a few lingering questions people may have...
http://io9.com/5917448/all-of-your-lingering-prometheus-questions-answered

I'm glad to hear there's nearly 30mins of extra footage yet to be included when it gets released on DVD.

All eyes on 10.11.12.....

_____________________________

The Dude abides...

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Post #: 282

RE: PROMETHEUS - 13/6/2012 2:49:00 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1623
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

quote:

The David infecting Holloway bit bothers me the most.No real explanation given why he does it and these synthetics only do what they are programmed to do.

They do what they are programmed to do but have a measure of free will and aren't completely under the control of their creators, and that crucial element makes them unpredictable. Thematically, his creators are arrogant enough to think he will ONLY do what he is tasked with doing, and that costs his creators (ie people) dear. Just like the Engineers were apparently wiped out by their creation, doing what it was designed to to do, to them...

The created seeking freedom from the control of/equality with their creators...David, in a child like way, and with a lack of conscience equal to that of a child pulling the wings off butterflies just to see what happens, just wants to satisfy his curiosity. Everybody on the Prometheus is curious about what they've found there and what the ooze is for/means. Unfortunately...

God/Engineer creates man with free will, assuming men will praise him and thank him for it. Man decides he'll do what he fecking wants, which could cause problems for God. Man creates Android, and assumes he will do what he is asked to do, but he starts deciding what he WANTS to do, and that is find out what everyone is else is thinking,about, what will the ooze do/what is it for. The logical thing, to the android, is simply just find out.

He's just another spin on the idea/concept of opening doors that perhaps shouldn't be opened, curiosity causing calamity. In fact, he literally opens door that perhaps shouldn't be opened in the film. And he hates his creators for making him just because they could, and as far as he can tell, all children want their parents dead...

Ash did what he did in Alien because he was programmed by the company to do so.Nothing more nothing less.

David does what he does because... its not really clear and a result of sloppy writing.

And this while Vickers may be an android stuff is just bollocks.Shes human.I think people are looking for things that are not there with this film just cos Ridley directed Blade Runner.Robin Hood may be a replicant too ya know.

(in reply to jobloffski)

Post #: 283

RE: PROMETHEUS - 13/6/2012 3:02:58 PM

st3veebee

Posts: 2354
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: 9303 Lyon Drive

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

quote:

The David infecting Holloway bit bothers me the most.No real explanation given why he does it and these synthetics only do what they are programmed to do.

They do what they are programmed to do but have a measure of free will and aren't completely under the control of their creators, and that crucial element makes them unpredictable. Thematically, his creators are arrogant enough to think he will ONLY do what he is tasked with doing, and that costs his creators (ie people) dear. Just like the Engineers were apparently wiped out by their creation, doing what it was designed to to do, to them...

The created seeking freedom from the control of/equality with their creators...David, in a child like way, and with a lack of conscience equal to that of a child pulling the wings off butterflies just to see what happens, just wants to satisfy his curiosity. Everybody on the Prometheus is curious about what they've found there and what the ooze is for/means. Unfortunately...

God/Engineer creates man with free will, assuming men will praise him and thank him for it. Man decides he'll do what he fecking wants, which could cause problems for God. Man creates Android, and assumes he will do what he is asked to do, but he starts deciding what he WANTS to do, and that is find out what everyone is else is thinking,about, what will the ooze do/what is it for. The logical thing, to the android, is simply just find out.

He's just another spin on the idea/concept of opening doors that perhaps shouldn't be opened, curiosity causing calamity. In fact, he literally opens door that perhaps shouldn't be opened in the film. And he hates his creators for making him just because they could, and as far as he can tell, all children want their parents dead...

Ash did what he did in Alien because he was programmed by the company to do so.Nothing more nothing less.

David does what he does because... its not really clear and a result of sloppy writing.

And this while Vickers may be an android stuff is just bollocks.Shes human.I think people are looking for things that are not there with this film just cos Ridley directed Blade Runner.Robin Hood may be a replicant too ya know.

That might explain the dodgy accent then

.

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Post #: 284

RE: PROMETHEUS - 13/6/2012 5:27:11 PM

Dirk Miggler

Posts: 822
Joined: 14/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

quote:

The David infecting Holloway bit bothers me the most.No real explanation given why he does it and these synthetics only do what they are programmed to do.

They do what they are programmed to do but have a measure of free will and aren't completely under the control of their creators, and that crucial element makes them unpredictable. Thematically, his creators are arrogant enough to think he will ONLY do what he is tasked with doing, and that costs his creators (ie people) dear. Just like the Engineers were apparently wiped out by their creation, doing what it was designed to to do, to them...

The created seeking freedom from the control of/equality with their creators...David, in a child like way, and with a lack of conscience equal to that of a child pulling the wings off butterflies just to see what happens, just wants to satisfy his curiosity. Everybody on the Prometheus is curious about what they've found there and what the ooze is for/means. Unfortunately...

God/Engineer creates man with free will, assuming men will praise him and thank him for it. Man decides he'll do what he fecking wants, which could cause problems for God. Man creates Android, and assumes he will do what he is asked to do, but he starts deciding what he WANTS to do, and that is find out what everyone is else is thinking,about, what will the ooze do/what is it for. The logical thing, to the android, is simply just find out.

He's just another spin on the idea/concept of opening doors that perhaps shouldn't be opened, curiosity causing calamity. In fact, he literally opens door that perhaps shouldn't be opened in the film. And he hates his creators for making him just because they could, and as far as he can tell, all children want their parents dead...

Ash did what he did in Alien because he was programmed by the company to do so.Nothing more nothing less.

David does what he does because... its not really clear and a result of sloppy writing.

And this while Vickers may be an android stuff is just bollocks.Shes human.I think people are looking for things that are not there with this film just cos Ridley directed Blade Runner.Robin Hood may be a replicant too ya know.

With regards Ash, why does he do the whole "psyching himself up" bit just before some of the crew members venture out on LV-426 ? A very human thing to do, no ?

I think Ash is an interesting comparison, yes we know he is but up until we see him as an android there as few hints or tells as there is for Vickers. I must admit that I am starting to side more with her not being an android but I still think there were hints there, what that would mean for the overall story who knows.

< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 13/6/2012 5:30:57 PM >

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 285

RE: PROMETHEUS - 13/6/2012 6:42:57 PM

ShinySteelRobot

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/6/2012
From: Seattle, USA

Is Vickers a robot?According to Damon Lindelof as quoted by MTV News here, she's not (edited for brevity, emphasis mine):

quote:

From: Damon Lindelof
To: Josh Horowitz

Vickers. Yes, she does look like David. Yes, this was intentional. What better way to piss off your daughter than to build the male equivalent of her? But enough about daddy issues (seriously, Lindelof, we get it!), allow me to answer your question. Is she a robot?

She is not.

< Message edited by ShinySteelRobot -- 13/6/2012 6:44:55 PM >

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Post #: 286

RE: PROMETHEUS - 15/6/2012 1:29:07 AM

Deviation

Posts: 26905
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

No fucking way she is, her scene with Idris Elba on getting laid, the moment where she burns Holloway and her scene with Weyland show her as more human than all the andriods together were throughout the series.

And before someone mentions A:R, fuck A:R.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 287

RE: PROMETHEUS - 15/6/2012 11:08:45 AM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1623
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

Hitlers finally seen Prometheus..

http://youtu.be/X3BV2u8YWps

(in reply to Deviation)

Post #: 288

RE: PROMETHEUS - 15/6/2012 11:29:32 AM

Deviation

Posts: 26905
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

If I see another Hitler video, I'll commit a genocide.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 289

RE: PROMETHEUS - 15/6/2012 2:45:27 PM

Woger

Posts: 3733
Joined: 30/9/2005

You won't like the new video where Hitler hears about Deviation's comment.

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Post #: 290

RE: PROMETHEUS - 16/6/2012 1:52:47 AM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

Did anyone notice the sly nod to Alien: Resurrection when David shoots a hoop?

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Post #: 291

RE: PROMETHEUS - 16/6/2012 9:27:47 AM

Nexus Wookie

Posts: 2247
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

Did anyone notice the sly nod to Alien: Resurrection when David shoots a hoop?

yeah, I spotted that right away! I think I mentioned it in this thread or the Film Review thread - a nice touch methinks!

Hold on does that make Ripley an android? Ha ha! Now that really is pushing it!

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Post #: 292

RE: PROMETHEUS - 16/6/2012 2:14:13 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19962
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

This is pretty cool.

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Post #: 293

RE: PROMETHEUS - 16/6/2012 2:22:29 PM

Nexus Wookie

Posts: 2247
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

This is pretty cool.

Awesome!

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Post #: 294

RE: PROMETHEUS - 16/6/2012 2:26:38 PM

OPEN YOUR EYES

Posts: 3454
Joined: 5/2/2012
From: Living on Lynch's quiff

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

This is pretty cool.

thats abit of a jump to go from Mutated Human+Female Human=squid,is it not?

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Post #: 295

RE: PROMETHEUS - 16/6/2012 2:29:52 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19962
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

But that's what happens, so far as I can tell.

Off out to see it again this afternoon, snuggling between Snow White (low expectations) and Jaws. Rain and wind be damned!

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Post #: 296

RE: PROMETHEUS - 16/6/2012 2:34:43 PM

OPEN YOUR EYES

Posts: 3454
Joined: 5/2/2012
From: Living on Lynch's quiff

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

But that's what happens, so far as I can tell.

Off out to see it again this afternoon, snuggling between Snow White (low expectations) and Jaws. Rain and wind be damned!

Oh Im not doubting you,Im not either doubting the poster because thats the cycle in the film.
I just find it odd how/why they went down the road with the (giant) Squid face hugger.

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Post #: 297

RE: PROMETHEUS - 17/6/2012 7:20:28 PM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2946
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

Finally saw the film yesterday, enjoyed it quite a lot despite some obvious flaws (thin characterisation and some duff performances for crucial characters). Fassbender basically made the film in a lot of ways. Having read through this thread I'm actually quite surprised at the level of debate about Vickers - I'm with yer man Girvan on this one. In the film as shot, she is simply meant to be a human and nothing more.

An interesting analysis of the film here, which tries to make sense of the film on a symbolic level:

http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html

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Post #: 298

RE: PROMETHEUS - 17/6/2012 7:22:48 PM

Deviation

Posts: 26905
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

Girvan? GIRVAN?! I knew Vickers was human before it was even written.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 299

RE: PROMETHEUS - 17/6/2012 7:25:45 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

RLM tackle Prometheus.

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-bag-prometheus/

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And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 300