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RE: Terrible review - 31/5/2012 5:33:19 PM   
Helen OHara

 

Posts: 3529
Joined: 15/9/2005
Oh, this film started so well with all the classic reviews thread tropes and then just got weird.

I'm genuinely confused by how many posts claim that spoilers were edited out. The only change made to the review after publication was the (swift) application of a spoiler warning for sensitive souls. We do these in the case of big films that people are all hyped about because that's where people tend to be hugely spoiler-sensitive; for the record, Ian himself doesn't think there are any spoilers in the review and certainly there are huge swathes of plot not addressed for just that reason.

I remain, as always, confused by people who think we "hype" films and then turn around and give them "mediocre" reviews. You would, presumably, prefer that we didn't write about anything in advance until we'd seen a locked cut and knew for certain it would be good? How odd. We cover films in production, and at that time all we can do is report what they're trying to do / hoping to make - with, often, discussion of the difficulties faced and problems they have to overcome. I'm not sure that qualifies as "hype" but hey, whatever. Conversely, having covered something prior to release do you think we should automatically give it a good review regardless of quality? Bizarre idea.

Third among the Review Complaints Greatest Hits list, there's the question of whether all three star films are created equally. They are, quite obviously, not. The blunt tools of the five star ratings are broad bands, every one. Obviously.

Finally, if we could avoid personal abuse of Ian, that'd be awesome. Incidentally, while he has written about Alien in the past, I think I'm right in saying confidently that he went into this film with an open mind, and used comparisons to Alien as a tool here to identify where this film was weak compared to a better sci-fi film, rather than because he wanted or expected this to be a carbon copy. He could as easily have used Blade Runner or 2001 or, heck, Close Encounters to do the same job.


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Post #: 211
RE: Terrible review - 31/5/2012 5:37:54 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8197
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helen OHara
Third among the Review Complaints Greatest Hits list, there's the question of whether all three star films are created equally. They are, quite obviously, not. The blunt tools of the five star ratings are broad bands, every one. Obviously.


I'm sorry, but this just won't do. The internet demands that all films be ranked accurately in order of quality within the framework of a 5-point rating system. Apparently failure to do so means some people can't decide whether a film is worth watching or not.

(in reply to Helen OHara)
Post #: 212
RE: Terrible review - 31/5/2012 5:38:15 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

quote:

ORIGINAL: drews

If Ian Nathan reviews The Dark Knight Rises and ONLY gives it 3 stars, people on here are gonna go into meltdown!!


I dont have an issuse with the Stars given.What I do have issues with is how the review was written and how it reads terribly negative only for the writer to give it a somewhat positive spin with a decent 3/5 rating.

It does seem rather negative to me. 3 stars is pretty good but it sounded like he was very disappointed.

I still want to see it, not sure when I can though...


The way it reads to me is that it's focusing heavily on the negatives to show exactly why it's a 3 star film rather than 4 or 5. It could be that Fassbender's performance alone is enough to kick it up from 2 to 3 stars. It could have been barely scraping three stars, but the reviewer felt there was enough in the film that it didn't justify the 2 star rating. Ultimately though I think that's the failing of the star system, no two people will have the same definition of what needs to be in a film to justify a three star rating and what needs to be there to justify a five.

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 213
RE: Terrible review - 31/5/2012 5:41:21 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helen OHara

Finally, if we could avoid personal abuse of Ian, that'd be awesome. Incidentally, while he has written about Alien in the past, I think I'm right in saying confidently that he went into this film with an open mind, and used comparisons to Alien as a tool here to identify where this film was weak compared to a better sci-fi film, rather than because he wanted or expected this to be a carbon copy. He could as easily have used Blade Runner or 2001 or, heck, Close Encounters to do the same job.



And if he had used a different film as a comparison the thread would have been flooded with people telling him he was stupid and he should just have used Alien.

(in reply to Helen OHara)
Post #: 214
RE: Its not meant to be an Alien movie Ian - 31/5/2012 5:58:37 PM   
Helen OHara

 

Posts: 3529
Joined: 15/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirtyfunkymonkey

Stop comparing it to the Alien franchise
... You constantly mention this yet Scott has said form the beginning that this is its own movie. If only you had that at the forefront of your mind when you watched this...


There's a sort of cosmic poetry to the timing of this.


_____________________________

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"Movies are forever, and sex doesn't last" - Mae West.
Post #: 215
RE: Its not meant to be an Alien movie Ian - 31/5/2012 6:01:29 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4338
Joined: 5/2/2012
They shouldn't compare it to Alien,they should compare it to AVP........
or not compare it at all.

< Message edited by OPEN YOUR EYES -- 31/5/2012 6:02:10 PM >

(in reply to Helen OHara)
Post #: 216
RE: Its not meant to be an Alien movie Ian - 31/5/2012 6:10:04 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Oh crazy review threads...I have missed you.


. Just think, we have Batman, Bond and The Hobbit all coming up.
Post #: 217
RE: Its not meant to be an Alien movie Ian - 31/5/2012 6:14:50 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4338
Joined: 5/2/2012
Well got the Tickets book for Tomowow in 3D (head-ache awaits).


@jace007
Please change your avatar, its distracting lol

< Message edited by OPEN YOUR EYES -- 31/5/2012 6:24:37 PM >

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 218
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:20:01 PM   
Helen OHara

 

Posts: 3529
Joined: 15/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: jace007

Empire film reviewers are a lot like IGN's game critics: "Ohhh, a big title's coming out soon, so we'll spite it and get more hits, because we're King sized douche-nozzles!"

Looking fwd to seeing this and being surprised. Hell, even Total Film gave P R O M E T H E U S 4/5 stars and their review was far more objective!

Seriously, someone needs to embargo idiots who purposely spoil it for others...you hate a film, fair enough - with the exception of the Twilight series, hahaha!


Genuine question, Jace, why do you think we'd get more hits for a muted review than a rave? How do you know that four stars is more "objective"? And why do you think a three-star review means we "hate" something?


_____________________________

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"Movies are forever, and sex doesn't last" - Mae West.
Post #: 219
RE: Its not meant to be an Alien movie Ian - 31/5/2012 6:21:33 PM   
jace007


Posts: 67
Joined: 14/5/2007
Hahaha, noooo, every time I try to, I get distracted as well.

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 220
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:21:37 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: jace007

Empire film reviewers are a lot like IGN's game critics: "Ohhh, a big title's coming out soon, so we'll spite it and get more hits, because we're King sized douche-nozzles!"

Looking fwd to seeing this and being surprised. Hell, even Total Film gave P R O M E T H E U S 4/5 stars and their review was far more objective!

Seriously, someone needs to embargo idiots who purposely spoil it for others...you hate a film, fair enough but steer that hate towards Steph Meyer and her Tween crap.


EDIT - All right, that was completely uncalled for. I haven't had enough sugar today.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 31/5/2012 6:22:59 PM >


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Post #: 221
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:22:16 PM   
jmebaby25

 

Posts: 272
Joined: 28/6/2006
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: jace007

Empire film reviewers are a lot like IGN's game critics: "Ohhh, a big title's coming out soon, so we'll spite it and get more hits, because we're King sized douche-nozzles!"

Looking fwd to seeing this and being surprised. Hell, even Total Film gave P R O M E T H E U S 4/5 stars and their review was far more objective!

Seriously, someone needs to embargo idiots who purposely spoil it for others...you hate a film, fair enough but steer that hate towards Steph Meyer and her Tween crap.


Blimey. I hope you're trolling here. Either that or the state of the human condition just took a sharp decline...

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Post #: 222
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:26:37 PM   
7eke


Posts: 158
Joined: 21/7/2007
Hi Mrs OHara, can Ian come out to play.

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Post #: 223
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:27:34 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think you guys are hyping yourselves up for disappointment, this thread ain't that crazy.

(in reply to jmebaby25)
Post #: 224
RE: Terrible review - 31/5/2012 6:30:54 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5055
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
Thank god there aren't more people like me who had a feeling the review might contain the odd spoiler therefore decided not to read it - imagine being deprived of this glorious thread?

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 225
RE: Was the reviewer listening to Ridley or not? - 31/5/2012 6:31:48 PM   
Filmfan 2


Posts: 1045
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Filmfan 2

I vividly remember buying a copy of The Sun or some other shitty red-top back in '99 purely for the supplement they had on The Phantom Menace. I was hyped for that film and when I opened up the supplement, there was a blow-by-blow summary of the plot, even a picture of Darth Maul being cut in half and falling into the pit. I was gutted!!!!!


Was that the Daily Record? I remember them advertising a big TPM feature only for it to essentially be a review of a pirate copy they'd bought on the black market. They printed pics of the whole film blow by blow (albeit really shitty and grainy like pirate tapes used to look like back then). Never but tabloids for film information basically. In fact just never buy tabloids.


That's the one!

I generally avoid the tabloids like the plague, but it was just that once for the supplement. I'd spent so long being excited about that movie, I almost felt liki crying when I had it spoiled. Looking back, mind, the film's a bit shit, but it felt like I'd had the air taken out my sails a littlet as I knew what happened in the climatic lightsaber battle.

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Post #: 226
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:32:27 PM   
jace007


Posts: 67
Joined: 14/5/2007
@ Helen O: Back in the days of Empire, when those reviewers gave a higher rating, it did feel like gospel and most of the time, they were spot-on. But nowadays, it seems your finest will poo-poo a highly anticipated project, simply because it didn't live up to your expectations. Ridley Scott is no fool and did well to avoid the obvious questions, he's a master. But look at The Dark Knight Rises: Any bets that whoever draws the short straw will give it 5/5 stars, simply because it's Chris Nolan?? (And I love the guy by the way!) I feel Empire's reviewers have taken the fun out of appreciating movies, with some exceptions like The Raid, which did deserve its 5 star rating.

(in reply to Helen OHara)
Post #: 227
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:38:29 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1106
Joined: 14/1/2009
88% on rotten tomatoes, i've scanned through some (spoiler cautious), there are some nice reviews popping up now !

(in reply to jace007)
Post #: 228
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:39:17 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54577
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: jace007

@ Helen O: Back in the days of Empire, when those reviewers gave a higher rating, it did feel like gospel and most of the time, they were spot-on. But nowadays, it seems your finest will poo-poo a highly anticipated project, simply because it didn't live up to your expectations. Ridley Scott is no fool and did well to avoid the obvious questions, he's a master. But look at The Dark Knight Rises: Any bets that whoever draws the short straw will give it 5/5 stars, simply because it's Chris Nolan?? (And I love the guy by the way!) I feel Empire's reviewers have taken the fun out of appreciating movies, with some exceptions like The Raid, which did deserve its 5 star rating.
)

Which reviewers?

Where's the back up for the suggestion the ratings have generally changed?

Where's the evidence a site gets more hits for not posting a rave review?

Have you seen the review threads where the posters disagreed with a high rating and post exactly the same kind of things you are but in reverse? (ie people make up arguments to go with their view of the film.)

Speaking of which - have you seen it yet to even be able to competent to judge whether you even agree with Ian Nathan's opinion? Because I'm not seeing a review. Which we'd love to see if you have. .

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(in reply to jace007)
Post #: 229
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:39:29 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14520
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
quote:

ORIGINAL: jace007

@ Helen O: Back in the days of Empire, when those reviewers gave a higher rating, it did feel like gospel and most of the time, they were spot-on. But nowadays, it seems your finest will poo-poo a highly anticipated project, simply because it didn't live up to your expectations. Ridley Scott is no fool and did well to avoid the obvious questions, he's a master. But look at The Dark Knight Rises: Any bets that whoever draws the short straw will give it 5/5 stars, simply because it's Chris Nolan?? (And I love the guy by the way!) I feel Empire's reviewers have taken the fun out of appreciating movies, with some exceptions like The Raid, which did deserve its 5 star rating.


So Empire give 'poor' ratings for films that don't meet expectations? Er...

But then they'll give 'good' ratings to people they like (because we all know that they hate Ridley Scott).

Except when they get the ratings right. In which case...they're right.

So much logic here, it's astonishing.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
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Post #: 230
RE: Terrible review - 31/5/2012 6:41:51 PM   
Filmfan 2


Posts: 1045
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helen OHara
. The only change made to the review after publication was the (swift) application of a spoiler warning for sensitive souls. We do these in the case of big films that people are all hyped about because that's where people tend to be hugely spoiler-sensitive; for the record, Ian himself doesn't think there are any spoilers in the review and certainly there are huge swathes of plot not addressed for just that reason.



If that's the case, Helen, then it's a recent innovation. I've read a number of reviews in the past that contained a pretty big spoiler here or there (and please don't ask me to cite them, as I can't remember and it was a little while back). It's bloody awful when it happens, like when a major hitherto-unknown-plot-point is revealed, or a character's fate discussed.


< Message edited by Filmfan 2 -- 31/5/2012 6:43:01 PM >


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Post #: 231
RE: What the hell Empire?! - 31/5/2012 6:42:25 PM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 3010
Joined: 28/11/2006
From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA
Critics thought Bladerunner was White upon release.

They're just people scrambling for web traffic at the end of the day.

Go to cinema
Buy ticket
Open eyes
Draw own conclusion




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Post #: 232
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:44:27 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

I think you guys are hyping yourselves up for disappointment, this thread ain't that crazy.


I dunno....this page has taken a turn into crazytown!

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Post #: 233
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:48:31 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: jace007

@ Helen O: Back in the days of Empire, when those reviewers gave a higher rating, it did feel like gospel and most of the time, they were spot-on. But nowadays, it seems your finest will poo-poo a highly anticipated project, simply because it didn't live up to your expectations. Ridley Scott is no fool and did well to avoid the obvious questions, he's a master. But look at The Dark Knight Rises: Any bets that whoever draws the short straw will give it 5/5 stars, simply because it's Chris Nolan?? (And I love the guy by the way!) I feel Empire's reviewers have taken the fun out of appreciating movies, with some exceptions like The Raid, which did deserve its 5 star rating.

http://i.imgur.com/ZyEs3.gif

< Message edited by Hood_Man -- 31/5/2012 6:49:02 PM >

(in reply to jace007)
Post #: 234
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:50:18 PM   
Whistler


Posts: 2959
Joined: 22/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: jace007

I don't troll, uh-uh. Empire's guilty of that crime.


Post #: 235
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:50:36 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10484
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

I think you guys are hyping yourselves up for disappointment, this thread ain't that crazy.


I dunno....this page has taken a turn into crazytown!


They've even turned against the Empire staff. Its a mutiny!!!!

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Post #: 236
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:51:04 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

quote:

ORIGINAL: jace007

@ Helen O: Back in the days of Empire, when those reviewers gave a higher rating, it did feel like gospel and most of the time, they were spot-on. But nowadays, it seems your finest will poo-poo a highly anticipated project, simply because it didn't live up to your expectations. Ridley Scott is no fool and did well to avoid the obvious questions, he's a master. But look at The Dark Knight Rises: Any bets that whoever draws the short straw will give it 5/5 stars, simply because it's Chris Nolan?? (And I love the guy by the way!) I feel Empire's reviewers have taken the fun out of appreciating movies, with some exceptions like The Raid, which did deserve its 5 star rating.


So Empire give 'poor' ratings for films that don't meet expectations? Er...

But then they'll give 'good' ratings to people they like (because we all know that they hate Ridley Scott).

Except when they get the ratings right. In which case...they're right.

So much logic here, it's astonishing.


It can basically be summed up as

PEOPLEHAVEDIFFERENTOPINIONSTOMERAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

(in reply to matty_b)
Post #: 237
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:51:22 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10484
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

http://i.imgur.com/ZyEs3.gif




_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 238
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:53:02 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12151
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

I think you guys are hyping yourselves up for disappointment, this thread ain't that crazy.


I dunno....this page has taken a turn into crazytown!


They've even turned against the Empire staff. Its a mutiny!!!!

I think I've turned up at just the right time

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-09-Psych.gif

(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 239
RE: Knock, knock! Who's there? Empire? Empire who? - 31/5/2012 6:57:53 PM   
Whistler


Posts: 2959
Joined: 22/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

I think you guys are hyping yourselves up for disappointment, this thread ain't that crazy.


I dunno....this page has taken a turn into crazytown!


They've even turned against the Empire staff. Its a mutiny!!!!

I think I've turned up at just the right time

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-09-Psych.gif


Hood, both of your last gifs made me piss myself.

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 240
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