quote:

ORIGINAL: darkhart

I could see very little wrong in this film but I can understand how some people might be disappointed considering the long and feverish gestation period.... THIS IS NOT AN ALIEN FILM... nor did it promise to be.
What it is, is a very good sci-fi film with tension, scares and enough questions to be thought provoking long after the credits have rolled.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BatSpider

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkhart

I could see very little wrong in this film but I can understand how some people might be disappointed considering the long and feverish gestation period.... THIS IS NOT AN ALIEN FILM... nor did it promise to be.
What it is, is a very good sci-fi film with tension, scares and enough questions to be thought provoking long after the credits have rolled.

The biggest question was how the hell could Ridley Scott fail to se that the utterly shite script, dialogue, performances, and lame-ass creatures were going to result in a Nostromo-sized turkey. Maybe the only person who noticed was the poor sod in editing who had to piece random scenes together.

I'm sure Ridley is professionally embarrassed by the mess and will be pissed off once it's confirmed as a major box office flop. I just hope he takes note in the future to follow his own instincts and not use legions of talentless idiots like Lindelof stinking up current Hollywood, ever again.

That's why people are still discussing the film, because it's SEVERAL shades of crap, not just one shade. It's historically as well as hysterically freakin' bad. Which is not to say that other movies this summer aren't equally as rubbish, but they ain't pretending to be something they're not. Folks, let's kick and yell and DEMAND better mainstream movies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Pretentiousness subroutines engaged...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr E

Alien is my favourite film and I was so disappointed with this utter
turkey of a film I just had to write some thoughts. This is not much of
a review more of a list of all the bad points in this film. Quite
honestly there aren't many good points.

[WARNING - MAJOR SPOILERS]

BASIC FLAWS:

- Not scary at all, a complete lack of tension and suspense. In Alien
the edge of seat suspense was non-stop. every alien film has a different tone to every other one, and I felt a sense of foreboding and wondering what was gonna happen when it kicked off. Horses for courses. Alien is set on a mainly totally enclosed environment, this one has massive clear vistas the narrow and tone becomes more chaotic and fractured the more the film goes on. Big massive hopes, with the walls closing in as the film goes along depicted via the camerawork alone. Style matches content,

- Awful characters, clichéd sci-fi stereotypes. Too many characters
most of which were just plot devices waiting to die. somewhat necessary to the genre staples, with the wider themes being expressed in a simple context./color]

- Muddled and confusing storyline. It tried too hard to be an original
concept with deep, meaningful questions about our creators and where we
come from blah blah blah whilst also trying to be a horror film/prequel
to Alien. It failed and couldn't decide what it wanted to be. your opinion. By choosing to call the film Prometheus, Scott has invited us to look at that myth and compare/contrast how that story relates to aspects of the film and that provides the 'depth' of the film. I mean, for example, Prometheus is subjected to repeated and extreme abdominal agonies, part of him being torn out for seeking to align with/be equal to/discover the knowledge of his Gods, and Shaw, in wanting to stand next to her 'Gods' and find answers is being 'impudent' from a God's point of view in such a context and what happens to her? Extreme, repeated abdominal agony and something torn out of her. My own pretentious (if you like) take on any story designed to have 'levels' is to say shite like 'Look at a puddle. depending on how you look at it, you may see just the water it's made from, you may see a reflection of yourself, or you may see the entire sky.
Either come up with something completely original that is not connected
to the Alien universe in any way or do a full blown unpretentious Alien
prequel with a direct link between the space jockeys and the eggs/face
huggers/aliens/queen alien etc. There was no need for this awful film
to be connected to the alien universe and it may have slightly improved
had it not.given the evolution of the ooze into worms, bigger worms, etc, all the way to proto Alien, it could have existed as a stand alone story giving a 'what happens next ending, with the evolution to the alien we know yet to come or as a direct prequel, to me it does both

OTHER FLAWS:

- Bad dialogue. 'You wanna get laid?' scene - Absolutely no need for
this scene between vickers and janek. Added nothing. Film themes creation/birth/survival/creation driving everything a species does, so referencing sex isn't THAT odd and given the debate over whether Vickers is a robot, this would seem an attempt to confirm that she isn't (but it foreshadows the 'cant believe I nearly fucked a robot from Resurrection so it serves a function in it's film, references another part of the franchise AND doesn't settle the 'is she a robot' debate because in the later film the concept of robots being able to have sex is floated.
Also unfunny banter between two unnecessary co-pilots. lame but not ruinous

David talking to big white engineer in alien speak - probably one of
the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever seen, space jockey
then rips his head of for no reason. Brilliant! Not. Tons of other
examples I can't be bothered to list. There is a reason. David is attempting to speak to it in its own language, and it considers David beneath him. Not only beneath him, beneath the Engineer's creation too, a HOW DARE YOU ADDRESS ME reaction (lame comparative, geek tries to talk to 'cool kid', geek gets punched in the face for daring to believe he is worthy. Anyway, the created trying to speak to/be equal to the creator and getting punked by the creator is the theme, and this bit is the theme in action: someone wishing to align himself with 'God' and 'God's' reaction all in one brief moment

- Space Jockeys looked awful. Turns out they were just wearing suits
and are actually just big bald pumped up white guys who like to throw
people about. Giger must be laughing his head off. .physically superior 'gods' who wont lower themselves to talk to their creation,also frankenstein theme in reverse (kill your creation or it will kill you) the tension between creation and destruction depicted

- Score. Contributed nothing to the film. Created no tension
whatsoever.that's just an opinion, if the events left you cold, the music would jar, whatever it was

- Turns out Weyland is still alive and onboard the ship. It's supposed
to be a shock twist but no one cares. Guy Pearce is cast as Weyland and
wears the worst make up known to man. former, it's not that much of a surprise that he's on board (the 'recording' of Weyland would be very weird if he wasn't on board to point to exactly where Shaw and her other half were standing. The make up sucks, and hopefully there is some reason for casting Guy Pierce in the role, but can forgive the make up, personally

- hated the way most the crew didn't no what the mission was until they
got there. Unrealistic and downright bad writing. totally realisitic, in a company/organisation/life people very often know the ins and outs of their 'superiors' big picture plans and just do the job/thing they do. Vickers considers Shaw and employee, for example, and therefore not worthy of being treated as an equal. Also, those 'above' us having information/knowledge we don't have and attitudes to the 'unworthy' re knowing this stuff is totally in keeping with the Prmoetheus God/those the gods create themes

And finally to sum up...

Stupid black goo spills out of stupid vases. Stupid character gets
infected with stupid black goo because stupid android put it in his
stupid drink. Stupid character makes love with stupid Ripley wannabe.
Stupid character gets torched and dies. Stupid Ripley wannabe becomes
pregnant. Stupid Ripley wannabe cuts out stupid baby squid from her
tummy tum tum. Stupid squid turns into stupid giant squid which
impregnates stupid big bald white space jockey. Stupid alien rips its
way out of stupid space jockey's chest. Stupid film ends. Stupid film
makes no sense.

clearly it does make sense, since that's what happens, aside from the opinion that it is all stupid and happening for no good reason

I appreciate your analysis of the themes and how they fit in with the story of the original myth of Prometheus but to be honest if the story doesn't do it for you on the most basic level then you aren't really going to be encouraged to dig deeper and engage with the deeper layers are you?

Nobody tells their mates "I saw a film last night where the themes were fantastically well implemented and the symbolism was ever so clever. You should check it out!"

And the referencing of other Alien movies was one of the problems for me. They kept telling us it wasn't an Alien prequel only to reference it at every opportunity!

< Message edited by scary_ice -- 17/6/2012 4:01:50 PM >

(in reply to jobloffski)

quote:

ORIGINAL: antosh25

The gore and Special Effects were good, but there were Pott holes in the Script. Prometheus left me feeling confused and quite dissapointed.
thefilm was rushed ! Ridley should've taken his time to work on the plot of the film.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Happy Shrapnel


No, never seen it.






I watched it the night after I saw Prom and sorry, your wrong.
Alien has a unique quality in that its a movie that never seems to age, including the effects.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bennyboy1971

quote:

ORIGINAL: antosh25

The gore and Special Effects were good, but there were Pott holes in the Script. Prometheus left me feeling confused and quite dissapointed.
thefilm was rushed ! Ridley should've taken his time to work on the plot of the film.

Just as you should have taken time to read your post?

Sorry - I find it hard to respect your view if you can't use capital letters properly or even spell the word pot.

What next - moaning that it wasn't Aylean 5?

quote:

ORIGINAL: scary_ice

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Pretentiousness subroutines engaged...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr E

Alien is my favourite film and I was so disappointed with this utter
turkey of a film I just had to write some thoughts. This is not much of
a review more of a list of all the bad points in this film. Quite
honestly there aren't many good points.

[WARNING - MAJOR SPOILERS]

BASIC FLAWS:

- Not scary at all, a complete lack of tension and suspense. In Alien
the edge of seat suspense was non-stop. every alien film has a different tone to every other one, and I felt a sense of foreboding and wondering what was gonna happen when it kicked off. Horses for courses. Alien is set on a mainly totally enclosed environment, this one has massive clear vistas the narrow and tone becomes more chaotic and fractured the more the film goes on. Big massive hopes, with the walls closing in as the film goes along depicted via the camerawork alone. Style matches content,

- Awful characters, clichéd sci-fi stereotypes. Too many characters
most of which were just plot devices waiting to die. somewhat necessary to the genre staples, with the wider themes being expressed in a simple context./color]

- Muddled and confusing storyline. It tried too hard to be an original
concept with deep, meaningful questions about our creators and where we
come from blah blah blah whilst also trying to be a horror film/prequel
to Alien. It failed and couldn't decide what it wanted to be. your opinion. By choosing to call the film Prometheus, Scott has invited us to look at that myth and compare/contrast how that story relates to aspects of the film and that provides the 'depth' of the film. I mean, for example, Prometheus is subjected to repeated and extreme abdominal agonies, part of him being torn out for seeking to align with/be equal to/discover the knowledge of his Gods, and Shaw, in wanting to stand next to her 'Gods' and find answers is being 'impudent' from a God's point of view in such a context and what happens to her? Extreme, repeated abdominal agony and something torn out of her. My own pretentious (if you like) take on any story designed to have 'levels' is to say shite like 'Look at a puddle. depending on how you look at it, you may see just the water it's made from, you may see a reflection of yourself, or you may see the entire sky.
Either come up with something completely original that is not connected
to the Alien universe in any way or do a full blown unpretentious Alien
prequel with a direct link between the space jockeys and the eggs/face
huggers/aliens/queen alien etc. There was no need for this awful film
to be connected to the alien universe and it may have slightly improved
had it not.given the evolution of the ooze into worms, bigger worms, etc, all the way to proto Alien, it could have existed as a stand alone story giving a 'what happens next ending, with the evolution to the alien we know yet to come or as a direct prequel, to me it does both

OTHER FLAWS:

- Bad dialogue. 'You wanna get laid?' scene - Absolutely no need for
this scene between vickers and janek. Added nothing. Film themes creation/birth/survival/creation driving everything a species does, so referencing sex isn't THAT odd and given the debate over whether Vickers is a robot, this would seem an attempt to confirm that she isn't (but it foreshadows the 'cant believe I nearly fucked a robot from Resurrection so it serves a function in it's film, references another part of the franchise AND doesn't settle the 'is she a robot' debate because in the later film the concept of robots being able to have sex is floated.
Also unfunny banter between two unnecessary co-pilots. lame but not ruinous

David talking to big white engineer in alien speak - probably one of
the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever seen, space jockey
then rips his head of for no reason. Brilliant! Not. Tons of other
examples I can't be bothered to list. There is a reason. David is attempting to speak to it in its own language, and it considers David beneath him. Not only beneath him, beneath the Engineer's creation too, a HOW DARE YOU ADDRESS ME reaction (lame comparative, geek tries to talk to 'cool kid', geek gets punched in the face for daring to believe he is worthy. Anyway, the created trying to speak to/be equal to the creator and getting punked by the creator is the theme, and this bit is the theme in action: someone wishing to align himself with 'God' and 'God's' reaction all in one brief moment

- Space Jockeys looked awful. Turns out they were just wearing suits
and are actually just big bald pumped up white guys who like to throw
people about. Giger must be laughing his head off. .physically superior 'gods' who wont lower themselves to talk to their creation,also frankenstein theme in reverse (kill your creation or it will kill you) the tension between creation and destruction depicted

- Score. Contributed nothing to the film. Created no tension
whatsoever.that's just an opinion, if the events left you cold, the music would jar, whatever it was

- Turns out Weyland is still alive and onboard the ship. It's supposed
to be a shock twist but no one cares. Guy Pearce is cast as Weyland and
wears the worst make up known to man. former, it's not that much of a surprise that he's on board (the 'recording' of Weyland would be very weird if he wasn't on board to point to exactly where Shaw and her other half were standing. The make up sucks, and hopefully there is some reason for casting Guy Pierce in the role, but can forgive the make up, personally

- hated the way most the crew didn't no what the mission was until they
got there. Unrealistic and downright bad writing. totally realisitic, in a company/organisation/life people very often know the ins and outs of their 'superiors' big picture plans and just do the job/thing they do. Vickers considers Shaw and employee, for example, and therefore not worthy of being treated as an equal. Also, those 'above' us having information/knowledge we don't have and attitudes to the 'unworthy' re knowing this stuff is totally in keeping with the Prmoetheus God/those the gods create themes

And finally to sum up...

Stupid black goo spills out of stupid vases. Stupid character gets
infected with stupid black goo because stupid android put it in his
stupid drink. Stupid character makes love with stupid Ripley wannabe.
Stupid character gets torched and dies. Stupid Ripley wannabe becomes
pregnant. Stupid Ripley wannabe cuts out stupid baby squid from her
tummy tum tum. Stupid squid turns into stupid giant squid which
impregnates stupid big bald white space jockey. Stupid alien rips its
way out of stupid space jockey's chest. Stupid film ends. Stupid film
makes no sense.

clearly it does make sense, since that's what happens, aside from the opinion that it is all stupid and happening for no good reason

I appreciate your analysis of the themes and how they fit in with the story of the original myth of Prometheus but to be honest if the story doesn't do it for you on the most basic level then you aren't really going to be encouraged to dig deeper and engage with the deeper layers are you?

Nobody tells their mates "I saw a film last night where the themes were fantastically well implemented and the symbolism was ever so clever. You should check it out!"

And the referencing of other Alien movies was one of the problems for me. They kept telling us it wasn't an Alien prequel only to reference it at every opportunity!

Well, I anticipated the film being called Prometheus for a number of reasons, including the use of archetypes representing aspects of human folly writ large, so I had no trouble at all with the characterisation from the off. Every Alien film has different characterisation styles, and there is certainly contrast between the working class joes characterisation of Alien and the 'experts in their field' in Prometheus. My dealings with 'experts' make it entirely acceptable to me that when confronting something beyond their expertise, experts in this film reveal themselves to be as fallible as anyone else (even moreso, because being an expert in one thing can make people arrogant enough to believe themselves to be cleverer than they actually are, and thinking that is what makes people do things that are patently stupid).

I expected a certain kind of viewing experience, and I got what I was anticipating, which was not a film that would answer everything it set up, but one that went at 'play with fire, get burnt/curiosity killed the cat' from narrative, visual and thematic angles. Maybe I'd have reworded a few lines to make them a little less 'you can type this shit but you cant say it' (for example 'It's what I choose to believe' could have been rejigged to 'I'm taking a leap of faith' and that brings the religious and scientific perspectives together in one line, because all attempts to discover something/go out on a limb in any way require leaps of faith and you can take a leap of faith without faith seeming so much like the total naivety/mere hope the actual line made it appear to be), but I'm happy with the film I saw, even IF it seems to others I'm talking arse



< Message edited by jobloffski -- 18/6/2012 3:15:07 PM >

_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to scary_ice)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clownfoot

quote:

ORIGINAL: bennyboy1971

quote:

ORIGINAL: antosh25

The gore and Special Effects were good, but there were Pott holes in the Script. Prometheus left me feeling confused and quite dissapointed.
thefilm was rushed ! Ridley should've taken his time to work on the plot of the film.

Just as you should have taken time to read your post?

Sorry - I find it hard to respect your view if you can't use capital letters properly or even spell the word pot.

What next - moaning that it wasn't Aylean 5?

I think the word he was looking for was 'plot'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mclane1

The most annoying thing is we were taken for a ride by a trailer that billed it as an out right horror/ thriller when in fact it was quite light in tone, infact the score in the film was at times uplifting and jouyous?! in a way I'd liken to stargate. There were some clever bits don't get me wrong but it lacked any suspense, repace was a really poor choice. Still, it was worth a tenner to see the extended imax trailer for spiderman!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM
6. Not much else (maybe cast older actors for older roles rather than sticking a younger actor in unconvincing old-age make-up when he has absolutely no screen-time as a younger guy?)

quote:

1. DO NOT REMOVE YOUR HELMET on an alien planet, even if the air is apparently breathable. At least not without a thorough survey of the indigenous wildlife, microbial life, etc. beforehand.

quote:

2. DO NOT PET THE WILDLIFE. Especially when there is evidence of violent death all around you.

quote:

3. Run PERPENDICULAR to large falling buildings/towers/spacecraft, NOT along the line of its fall.

quote:

5. Apparently people in the near future can run away immediately after emergency major stomach surgery without much problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM

Visually stunning, as expected, but ultimately disappointing. I liked it to a degree, I wanted to like it a whole lot more, but there were just too many unanswered questions for it to work as a stand-alone film without a sequel(s), and just way too much stupid in it for a film that has pretenses of 'cerebral' to the point that its flaws nagged at me and stayed with me far more than any positives the film had when I left the cinema, and long afterwards.

What we learnt from Prometheus:

1. DO NOT REMOVE YOUR HELMET on an alien planet, even if the air is apparently breathable. At least not without a thorough survey of the indigenous wildlife, microbial life, etc. beforehand.

2. DO NOT PET THE WILDLIFE. Especially when there is evidence of violent death all around you.

3. Run PERPENDICULAR to large falling buildings/towers/spacecraft, NOT along the line of its fall.

4. Don't trust androids. Or scientists. Or corporations. Or gods. Or Damon Lindelof.

5. Apparently people in the near future can run away immediately after emergency major stomach surgery without much problem.

6. Not much else (maybe cast older actors for older roles rather than sticking a younger actor in unconvincing old-age make-up when he has absolutely no screen-time as a younger guy?)

It's not disappointing because it's not "Alien" enough, it's disappointing because it's just not smart enough - the script at times borders on (if not invades) moronic and the whole Chariot-of-the-Gods meet-our-makers plot is clumsily, vaguely, and at times cornily handled (I'm not sure if someone says "you just need to believe", but they might as well).

Theron is wasted. Pierce is bizarrely old throughout and thus, too, wasted. Rapace is unconvincing and makes a poor Ripley replacement, which is all she is, pretty much, motivations aside.

There is some goodness. Fassbender is excellent as David. Elba is charismatic and charming. It looks lovely. The 3D (in IMAX - I'd worry about brightness in non-IMAX) is subtle, going for depth over poking stuff in your face and therefore good (although worth £8 more than 2D is another question).

It does pose some interesting questions, but either its answers are dissatisfying (e.g. Elba reveals the entire reason for the aliens presence and reasons for being there in one throw-away speculative line and that's it) or simply left unanswered - even when the opportunity is there for more to be revealed (even if only snippets), the scriptwriter (Lost writer Damon Lindelof - alert!) chooses to opt for another monster-fight over dialogue or introspection every time, despite a great opening half-hour or so that promises the opposite. They may be saving some of these questions for a sequel (and the ending makes it clear they are), but on its own merits, the film fails to deliver on a lot of things it sets up. And while a sequel might solve some of the more puzzling things in this film and therefore retroactively improve some of it, it can't and won't undo a lot of the weaker elements regardless.

It's not exciting enough to be a dumb popcorn flick and it's not smart enough to be a cerebral science fiction classic - or anything enough to stand out, except maybe visually. It has delusions of grandeur that it fails to reach. And there's just too much damned stupid.

5/10

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

1. DO NOT REMOVE YOUR HELMET on an alien planet, even if the air is apparently breathable. At least not without a thorough survey of the indigenous wildlife, microbial life, etc. beforehand.

This was seen as a massive risk from the start and it was mostly already examined as being safe.

quote:

2. DO NOT PET THE WILDLIFE. Especially when there is evidence of violent death all around you.

I don't really understand this. They were already tired, nervous and dealing with their fears (conditions that never make you smart) by smoking and the other by trying to pet the HOLY FUCKING SHIT A NEW SPECIES. Him trying to pet the wildlife was well done. He knew it was wrong, he pushed himself twice before attempting to touch it again, yet curiosity won over logic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lazarus munkey

Hints at some big questions but has no idea how to tackle them.
A largely wasted cast and Rapace looked out of her depth.
Dull, dumb and the biggest disappointment in an age.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

But common sense takes a vacation in a situation as stressful as that, no matter what the job is. The air was breathable and mostly proven to be safe, the biologist had common sense trying to win but under the stress and situation, he went for the worst decision. I really think the foolishness makes sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM

[Falling space-ship: again, come on! They knew it was falling towards them. There was a shadow on the ground. They could see the shadow. I shouted it at the screen "RUN SIDEWAYS YOU STUPID FUCKS!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM


These are not the talking points intentioned by the filmmakers. We're meant to be discussing the Themes of the film, the Plot, The Story. Character Arcs... or at least how cool the monsters and space ships were... But we're spending as much time discussing Stupid Character Actions or Nonsensical Plot Points, perhaps even more than any of those things the filmmakers would like us to be discussing.