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RE: Spoilers or what! - 11/6/2012 2:37:16 PM   
makins

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 15/12/2011
for me i just took the dna match to mean the engineers are not aliens at all but just some variant form of human being. its movie fantasy sci-fi science anyway remember guys. the whole "dna" scientific basis of jurassic park is complete nonsense and they didnt do too badly with it. if you put too much logic onto any of these kinds of films they all fall apart. for me i just enjoy them for the escapism and the thrill of the ride and have fun debating the various plot points and ideas raised in the film with my frinds and family, and prometheus has certainly provided that in spades lol.

edit:
also just read an interview with ridley where he confirms that the first cut of the movie was inm fact 2 hrs 27 and was cut down to 1 hr 59 to get to the studios desired 2 hr running time. hopefully the missing footage will show up on dvd or bluray at some point

< Message edited by makins -- 11/6/2012 5:23:55 PM >

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 781
RE: Spoilers or what! - 11/6/2012 2:57:04 PM   
Filmfan 2


Posts: 1050
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Not getting the hate some have for this film. Not at all. Apologies for the following ramble.

Why did men create androids? Because they could. Why did David do the things he did? Because he could, and to see what would happen. He does what his own creator did.


David dares to attempt to speak to the creator of his creator in his own language. The enraged engineer rips David's head off and kills Weyland with his own creation. The creators of the engineers also seem have have used the creation of the Engineers to kill them. Visual and thematic poetry

Prometheus had his liver torn out over and over again for daring to try and take the power of the gods...Shaw suffers abdominal agonies for her act of 'Promethea'.

Wont ramble on endlessly about such things, it's these little moments that make this a GOOD film, and as for the dialogue, I've heard much much worse. Literally the lines (of dialogue) are to be looked between. The dialogue is functional, it does what it has to do, simply, briefly, and sometimes clunkily, but not ruinously so.

I've read someone complain that we aren't told how the captain reached his conclusion the planet contained an armoury...fuckin' hell, we were shown a big chamber with the 'vases' stacked up like shells, and there was a time lapse in the film that would have given ample opportunity for this to be discussed.

Why did the person who mapped out the chambers get lost? He released 'drones' to scan the area and create the map, he didn't actually have the map with him, and he and the other guy blundered into areas that hadn't been mapped out yet while panicking,

Why did the biologist beckon the snake like thing to him? Because he is seeing something nobody else in his field has ever seen, and it doesn't initially look threatening. THE THRILL OF DISCOVERING SOMETHING NEW OVERRIDING YOUR LOGIC AND THE RESULT BEING YOU END UP IN DANGER IS WHAT THE FUCKING FILM IS ABOUT, This is not a scene that is ludicrously written, it is entirely keeping with the core idea driving the film.

What's the deal with 'Zombie Fifield? He was infected by a bio weapon that had sentience and that sentience was engineered to kill humans. He went back to the ship and started to kill humans. Why is that a stupid plot development? It's totally in keeping with the things we are told by the film. What is so wrong with such a scene?

Why did Shaw's other half not mention what was happening to him and have sex with shaw? Because he was infected by sentient, DNA altering parasites and serve what became his body's function: continue the life cycle of his 'passengers'

How did Shaw get around after the abdominal surgery? She REPEATEDLY administers painkillers to herself , so the worst of the pain is medicated to a degree AND she is running for her life. You'll crawl or whatever, no matter how much agony you are in, to stay alive (the survival instinct of Shaw that becomes part of the Alien species, see Alien for Ashe's comments on the survival and adaptability of the creature we now know to contain Shaw in it;s DNA, and the destructive killer nature of the Engineer provides the other side of its nature). an, as mentioned, the reason for her repeatedly suffering abdominal agony in the film is directly tied to the fate of the mythical Prometheus: to try elevate yourself to equal status with the gods, and if you are not of strong enough character to stand by them as an equal, you will be punished for your impudence.

Is Vickers a Robot? It's irrelevant, Whether she is, or isn't, her 'father' has rejected her in favour of the 'son he always wanted' and she's pissed at her 'creator' for abandoning her.

And the derided ending, it's still in keeping with the use of the Prometheus Myth: The Engineer is destroyed by what he created, and what is then created will kill it's (in evolutionary terms) it's creators over and over again. Every time an Alien bursts from someone, the experience the agony of this Prometheus, so the over and over again nature of Aliens being birthed ties in with the punishment of prometheus. If (according to this film at least) we all have elements of the Engineer 'prometheus' race in us, we suffer the abdominal agonies the Engineer who birthed the Proto-Alien suffers, his punishment is symbolic of the punishment of his race for dabbling in creation and his punishment is ours, the price of dabbling in creation without an 'after care plan' (ie create something that can think for itself and it wont take kindly to being told what to do and will learn by the example it is shown). And in classical film structure, the film begins and ends, with an engineer being killed as the price of creating new life. It's not a tacked on ending, it is a framing device/bracketing for all that happens between.

And depending on how you watch the films now, Alien1-4 contain elements that come together in Prometheus or Prometheus contains elements that splinter apart and re-appear in fragments throughout the (chronologically) next four films...exactly how the DNA of the engineer at the start of the film broke down and then started to reform, developing into different types of like, all containing some/mostof/all the coding of their progenitor. The bald convicts of Alien 3, the bald scientists of Resurrection, the bald engineers, the suicide of Ripley to stop the Alien getting to earth, the sacrifice of the Prometheus to stop the goo getting to earth, the idea of fucking a robot, androids with their own agenda/with the moral compass of a child who just does things to see what happens, etc the DNA of the films sharing elments but also being different, blah blah blah, etc...

The themes and concerns of the previous films have come full circle via prometheus, which can now go ff on it's own narrative path, and if anybody wanted to, once the prometheus cycle is complete, an Alien 5 can happen, on Earth, taking into account the mythology created by Prometheus and any sequels, without Ripley, where the chickens finally come home to roost for those still intent on getting the Alien to Earth, for reasons we STILL aren't entirely sure of.

Not sure I'd call 'Classic' quite yet, but this is far from the dumb-assed turkey that seems to have gotten so many people so angry (IMO, of course). Things like the size disparity between the SJ in Alien and the Engineers in Prometheus...

We don't know if the Engineers in Prometheus are the 'only available size' of their race, or whether for example, warriors might be bigger.. We don't know if the Alien eggs in Alien are 'refined' by the Engineers to be a weapon, or if the engineers killed in the Prometheus 'flashbacks' were killed by not being able to control something they created. That seems likely. Just takes a little imagination to wonder why things don't seem to make total sense. Yet...

It's implied that this is the origin of the alien xenomorph, by some weird hybrid of their biological weapon / Elizabeth's human DNA / and the Space Jockey's DNA... then why is their a picture of one on the wall? The xenomorph probably already existed, because the seeding of the 'baby' into Shaw produced something that would produce eventually produce an alien. So it's probably happened elsewhere/the 'temple is a factory for producing that very end result, by whatever evolutionary path it needs to take to get there?

Also, if the Space Jockey has the same DNA as us why does the alien come out of it but only a giant facehugger out of Elizabeth? There aren't any facehuggers yet, this is the stage of evolution the creature is at it needs to evelbe fromm ooze, into worms, into snakes, into facehuggers, into aliens, that then become able to lay eggs. On other planets/in other locations, this evolutionary stage may have been reached, but on the planet in the film, there is only the ooze to start the process off.

If we have exactly the same DNA then why are we so different? We share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees. The base of life grows from whatever environmental conditions in which it finds itself


All supposition of course, but hopefully logical


The only terrible thing about Prometheus as far as I'm concerned is seeing it in 3D is distracting, because, for example there may be characters in the mid ground and background doing stuff but the 3D effect draws attention to the foreground, where there's a feckin' rock drawing your eye to it.

Bring on the Prometheus retail release!


Once again, you prove why you're my favourite poster on this site. I was hoping you were going to post something more in-depth in regards to your thoughts on this movie, and you've delivered. A very well argued post, and it reconciles some of the problems I still had with the film after a few viewings with the film as it stands..

The only point I'd disagree with is in regards to Holloway having sex with Shaw. At that point, he wasn't aware that he had anything wrong with him and it's only during the 'morning after' that he notices the little worm in his eye.

< Message edited by Filmfan 2 -- 11/6/2012 2:59:34 PM >


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(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 782
RE: Spoilers or what! - 11/6/2012 3:51:28 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere

quote:

ORIGINAL: Filmfan 2


Once again, you prove why you're my favourite poster on this site. I was hoping you were going to post something more in-depth in regards to your thoughts on this movie, and you've delivered. A very well argued post, and it reconciles some of the problems I still had with the film after a few viewings with the film as it stands..

The only point I'd disagree with is in regards to Holloway having sex with Shaw. At that point, he wasn't aware that he had anything wrong with him and it's only during the 'morning after' that he notices the little worm in his eye.


Ah, memory lapse...I've only seen it the once. Thanks, for the comment, by the way

_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Filmfan 2)
Post #: 783
RE: No continuity problem - 11/6/2012 5:07:35 PM   
Woger


Posts: 3815
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: bdmrmapf

If noone else has figured this out yet and commented... Prometheus lands on LV-223.... the crew in Alien lands on LV-426... Sir Ridley told us this was not what let up to Alien... can you see that now? Of course the jockey is not in the same position... the payload is different (atmoshphere and eggs ((organic)) in Alien, not in Prometheus)... there is something between the two movies we havnt seen.... YET! hopefully


Well for a start the jockeys have gone from canisters to eggs; but another thing about a sequel is that there will probably have to be another ship from earth, I don't think there will be a film with just Shaw and a rubber head.

_____________________________

Eddie: "Weve been burgaled"
Richie: You may have been, but I have never in my life. As a christian I am so tightly clenched, oh you mean burgaled
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There were originally five horsemen of the apocalypse. Jack Bauer said he would travel by foot
Post #: 784
RE: No continuity problem - 11/6/2012 5:07:39 PM   
Woger


Posts: 3815
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: bdmrmapf

If noone else has figured this out yet and commented... Prometheus lands on LV-223.... the crew in Alien lands on LV-426... Sir Ridley told us this was not what let up to Alien... can you see that now? Of course the jockey is not in the same position... the payload is different (atmoshphere and eggs ((organic)) in Alien, not in Prometheus)... there is something between the two movies we havnt seen.... YET! hopefully


. . .

_____________________________

Eddie: "Weve been burgaled"
Richie: You may have been, but I have never in my life. As a christian I am so tightly clenched, oh you mean burgaled
- - -
There were originally five horsemen of the apocalypse. Jack Bauer said he would travel by foot
Post #: 785
RE: continuing the no continuity problem - 11/6/2012 7:38:06 PM   
TheDukeAbides

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/6/2012
Review about the review - too heavy on the spoilers. I didn't read a single review about this film beforehand (I only listened to Kermode's) and I've since been about to make my feelings known to my mates who have yet to see it without having to resort to any finer details.

Of course this can lead to much hyperbole about what I think is good and bad about the film but the it is up to them to decide whether they still wish to go and see it or not.

After I saw it that was when I went searching out reviews, looking for people with feelings akin to mine and I found it here and have been following this thread ever since.

That so more many people have felt to need to contributed (one or two posts to count, myself included), be it to the positive or the negative has shown just how polarising this film actually is.

On a sidenote, it is good to see the IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes scores slowing coming down as more people see it.
Post #: 786
RE: continuing the no continuity problem - 11/6/2012 7:38:43 PM   
TheDukeAbides

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/6/2012
I'm assuming people get the same 'Server Error' messages who do double posts....

And still get 'Server Error' messages when trying to correct their double post.

< Message edited by TheDukeAbides -- 11/6/2012 7:43:15 PM >
Post #: 787
extended and directors cut.. - 11/6/2012 7:46:21 PM   
vicandbob

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/3/2008
More from Ridley regarding an extended cut and a directors cut...


Ridley Scott ended up doing a Directorís Cut for Alien and Blade Runner. He has said that there will not be a directorís cut for Prometheus.
However, there may be an extended cut. Spoilers ahead.

In a recent interview with Collider (embedded below) Scott talked about the cut and deleted scenes.

The Blu-ray will have about 30 minutes of deleted scenes (he mentions one where Noomi Rapaceís fight with the Engineer is longer) and the extended cut may be 20 minutes longer, but he is not sure whether to do it or not.

Youíre going to do an extended cut on the Blu-ray/DVD. Is it a lot longer?
SCOTT: Twenty minutes.

So thereís, like, twenty minutes that will be added back in for a longer version?
SCOTT: Maybe. But Iím so happy with this engine, the way it is right now. I think itís fine. I think it works. It can go in a section where, if you really want to tap in, look at the menu. To see how things are long, and itís too long. Dramatically, Iím about putting bums on seats. For me to separate my idea of commerce from artóIíd be a fool. You canít do that. I wouldnít be allowed to do the films I do. So Iím very user friendly as far as the studios are concerned. To a certain extent, Iím a businessman. Iím aware thatís what I have to do. Itís my job. To say, ďScrew the audience.Ē You canít do that. ďAm I communicating?Ē is the question. Am I communicating? Because if Iím not, I need to address it.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 788
prometheus review - 11/6/2012 7:47:07 PM   
the_driver


Posts: 23
Joined: 30/5/2012
I loved Prometheus and i think people are being in some cases in my opinion unnecessarily harsh on the film, with the dialogue which i think is talking more about the where we came from aspect and the bigger picture, unlike Alien in which they talk about their worker pay etc, this can be excused because Prometheus which is about these big ideas like where we came from, this theme demands it to be spoken about in this matter, half of the questions would not be answered if they all talked about how much they made, which is touched upon by Fifield and Janek.

_____________________________

'I don't carry a gun. I drive' -Drive
'I aim to misbehave' Serenity
Listen up, maggots. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else' Fight Club

(in reply to TheDukeAbides)
Post #: 789
RE: extended and directors cut.. - 11/6/2012 7:59:46 PM   
TheDukeAbides

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/6/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicandbob

More from Ridley regarding an extended cut and a directors cut...


Ridley Scott ended up doing a Directorís Cut for Alien and Blade Runner. He has said that there will not be a directorís cut for Prometheus.
However, there may be an extended cut. Spoilers ahead.

In a recent interview with Collider (embedded below) Scott talked about the cut and deleted scenes.

The Blu-ray will have about 30 minutes of deleted scenes (he mentions one where Noomi Rapaceís fight with the Engineer is longer) and the extended cut may be 20 minutes longer, but he is not sure whether to do it or not.

Youíre going to do an extended cut on the Blu-ray/DVD. Is it a lot longer?
SCOTT: Twenty minutes.

So thereís, like, twenty minutes that will be added back in for a longer version?
SCOTT: Maybe. But Iím so happy with this engine, the way it is right now. I think itís fine. I think it works. It can go in a section where, if you really want to tap in, look at the menu. To see how things are long, and itís too long. Dramatically, Iím about putting bums on seats. For me to separate my idea of commerce from artóIíd be a fool. You canít do that. I wouldnít be allowed to do the films I do. So Iím very user friendly as far as the studios are concerned. To a certain extent, Iím a businessman. Iím aware thatís what I have to do. Itís my job. To say, ďScrew the audience.Ē You canít do that. ďAm I communicating?Ē is the question. Am I communicating? Because if Iím not, I need to address it.


Funnily enough I was going to do a review on this based on how cynically exploitive this movie actually was and Scott all but goes and confirms it.

It would be a part excuse as to why I found this movie so dreadful, that somethings must have been cut out in order to appease 'evil' studio execs.

But then why wouldn't the director and all those involved in the film be equally as culpable, they are indeed in the business of making money.

So whoop-dee-do, there may or may not be director's cuts, or workprints, or even more pocketing draining sequels - to exploit both those who love the film and wish to see more and those who want to love the film and hope there is something more.

I think the third camp is trying their damnedest to make sure this film makes no more money and neither does any subsequent release associated with it.

(in reply to vicandbob)
Post #: 790
RE: extended and directors cut.. - 11/6/2012 8:00:08 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4393
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicandbob

More from Ridley regarding an extended cut and a directors cut...


Ridley Scott ended up doing a Directorís Cut for Alien and Blade Runner. He has said that there will not be a directorís cut for Prometheus.
However, there may be an extended cut. Spoilers ahead.

In a recent interview with Collider (embedded below) Scott talked about the cut and deleted scenes.

The Blu-ray will have about 30 minutes of deleted scenes (he mentions one where Noomi Rapaceís fight with the Engineer is longer) and the extended cut may be 20 minutes longer, but he is not sure whether to do it or not.

Youíre going to do an extended cut on the Blu-ray/DVD. Is it a lot longer?
SCOTT: Twenty minutes.

So thereís, like, twenty minutes that will be added back in for a longer version?
SCOTT: Maybe. But Iím so happy with this engine, the way it is right now. I think itís fine. I think it works. It can go in a section where, if you really want to tap in, look at the menu. To see how things are long, and itís too long. Dramatically, Iím about putting bums on seats. For me to separate my idea of commerce from artóIíd be a fool. You canít do that. I wouldnít be allowed to do the films I do. So Iím very user friendly as far as the studios are concerned. To a certain extent, Iím a businessman. Iím aware thatís what I have to do. Itís my job. To say, ďScrew the audience.Ē You canít do that. ďAm I communicating?Ē is the question. Am I communicating? Because if Iím not, I need to address it.


Really depends what these 20 extra minutes contain and rether it makes much difference to the theatre release.
By the sounds of it not much.

(in reply to vicandbob)
Post #: 791
RE: extended and directors cut.. - 11/6/2012 8:03:54 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
I am such a Blade Runner nerd that I know the scene he wants to open the sequel on.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 792
RE: extended and directors cut.. - 11/6/2012 8:05:49 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4393
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I am such a Blade Runner nerd that I know the scene he wants to open the sequel on.


Oh give me a clue?

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 793
RE: extended and directors cut.. - 11/6/2012 8:16:24 PM   
makins

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 15/12/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I am such a Blade Runner nerd that I know the scene he wants to open the sequel on.


hehe, you and me both, the storyboards are in the book 'film directing shot by shot' by steve katz, the jawbone scene ?

if he does do it it would be a great opening.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 794
RE: extended and directors cut.. - 11/6/2012 9:10:00 PM   
vicandbob

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/3/2008
Will Harrison fords character be the replicant farmer being retired?

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 795
RE: extended and directors cut.. - 11/6/2012 9:12:08 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: makins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I am such a Blade Runner nerd that I know the scene he wants to open the sequel on.


hehe, you and me both, the storyboards are in the book 'film directing shot by shot' by steve katz, the jawbone scene ?

if he does do it it would be a great opening.


Yeah that's the one!

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to makins)
Post #: 796
RE: extended and directors cut.. - 12/6/2012 1:22:38 AM   
Gazz


Posts: 873
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I am such a Blade Runner nerd that I know the scene he wants to open the sequel on.


Yeah, the moment I read it on Collider I got goosebumps. Lets hope we get the ripped out jaw too!

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 797
RE: Fassbender Rules - 12/6/2012 7:06:57 AM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5181
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
What was Weyland's last words again?

And what was it David replied?



WEYLAND
There's nothing.

DAVID
I know. Have a good journey, Mr Weyland.


My, how existentialist! (They'd obviously read the rest of the script and/or just watched the last episode of Lost!) But that pales into insignificance next to this metatextual bombshell just a few minutes later:

The answer is irrelevant.


Sez it all really. Even the film-makers think Prometheus is a lot of sound, fury and production values signifying nothing. They'd have been as well saying this film is irrelevant! (I realise it's only a movie, but that's just taking the piss.)



Well, no. I think the point with that line of dialogue is that it's the question that is truly relevant as it drives human endeavour and imagination. David isn't good or evil; he is curious and has no moral framework which stops him from exploring that curiosity. Ultimately it doesn't really matter why humans were created by the Engineers; in fact, knowing the answer to that question would likely stunt our growth and evolution. And what answer could possibly satisfy? This is all dealt with earlier in the film with the somewhat clumsy talk of religion and faith.

< Message edited by furrybastard -- 12/6/2012 7:11:24 AM >

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 798
It exists because it can - 12/6/2012 5:00:02 PM   
TheDukeAbides

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/6/2012
Very hard to reviewn without sounding patronising to someone who holds the opposing view.

Review 1 of this film - as a stand-alone film without mention the 'A-word'.

As an avoider of 3D I was (as I expected) mightly impressed with the visuals of the film, from the real environments, to the stages and even to the CGI everyone had worked their butts off to stimulate the eyes of the viewing audience. A cinema viewing is a must, which is a shame that you'd have to part with your cash to see this.

I've seen far, far worse films so I think a 3/5 rating is fair - I suppose it now just depends on the tone of the review.

I found it a suspense-free zone for a start. Not concentrating on characterisation (of the humans at least) made it very hard (read impossible) for me to care about any of them, be they fighting to survive or scrificing themselves.

To that end this film reminded me of an inverse 'Event Horizon' or 'Sunshine'. The hard work was done in the first 2 acts of the film, only to be shat on by the final act.

Prometheus was like this in that it gets the 3/5 for at least trying to tell a story - whatever 'big questions' it is proposed to ask are neither here nor there because, answered or not, left to the audiences own imagination or not, everything this film did was 2nd rate with regards the script and the characters.

Someone said that the hard part about writing a song was not what you put in, but what you left out. I don't care, simply because it appears the makers didn't appear to care.

So in essence it felt like one mighty big piss take - "why did the Engineers create humans (and then apparently want to destroy them)?" , "why did humans create androids?", "why did Scott bother making this film?"

The answer to all 3 is seemingly 'because they can' with the addition to the latter question of there being a shedload of cash to extort from people.

It didn't know whether it wanted to be and in the end it failed on just about everything and just ended up, existing.
Post #: 799
RE: Liked it - 13/6/2012 9:04:50 AM   
dalitis8

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 28/5/2012
The flaws of "Prometheus" according to me:

a) Too many characters, which means that the director has no time to develop or to integrate within the story.

b) No clear-cut central premise. OK, apparently we want to meet our makers, but this gets confused with the sci-fi/horror tendencies of the movie.

c) Cheesy dialogue, and totally unnecessary min-sub-plots.


What is good about "Prometheus":

a) Stunning 3D visual effects.

b) Michael Fassbender and Noomi Rapace. The film should have revolved around them more. And maybe the Charlize Theron character should have been taken more seriously. Instead of being a rich girl/bitch/boss with a pointless penchant for IR sex (other than the now obligatory PC moment of any big Hollywood production) she could have actually played a sinister role in the movie. Maybe even prove to be a robot herself, having a competing agenda with Fassbender.

c) The xenomorph at the end. Should have found a way to include him in the film's action. All the other creatures in the film are but poor substitutes.
Post #: 800
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 9:24:55 AM   
dalitis8

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 28/5/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Big Stevie

All in all, disappointing.
I hope to be proven wrong and it will grow to be the recognised as the great film it aspires to be.
Alternatively, its a bag of crap and Ridley Scott is laughing all the way to the bank



This film is by no means guaranteed to succeed. It had a decent opening but I don't think it can hold strongly enough in order to be considered a success. With at least 120m in production costs, it will require at least 150m stateside to be considered a minor hit. A lot will also depend on what it does internationally.

On a more general note, despite the fact that most people seem to believe that Hollywood productions are eminently profitable, the reality is radically different. The (vast) majority of film productions actually make a loss.
Post #: 801
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 10:23:34 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1274
Joined: 31/3/2010
I saw this for a second time on Sunday night and one week on the cinema was almost empty - uh-oh...

Can you even begin to imagine the howls of fanboy outrage if Prometheus stiffs and there is no prequel-sequel? When after a 33 year wait, Sir Ridley asked more questions than he answered? An object lesson then in why would-be franchise-generating movies like this need to be more self-contained. The end of Prometheus leaves questions hanging which could and should have been answered in this film while still leaving room for a future sequel which, let's face it, would be a helluva lot more likely to happen if this film was more satisfying.

That's twice I've seen it now and, for all its flaws, unreconstructed fanboy that I am, I liked it. But each time the collective "Huh!?!" from the rest of the auditorium when the credits rolled at the end was palpable. Not a recipe for good word-of-mouth - I don't know a single non-fanboy/normal person who liked it. Then compare that with the word-of-mouth generated by the Chestburster scene in Alien - I still remember my babysitter raving about it when I was a kid!

(On a second viewing I thought that great, big, Lovecraftian squid thing which grabs The Engineer looked like... a giant Facehugger. Or is that Stath-hugger?)

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 13/6/2012 10:48:29 AM >

(in reply to dalitis8)
Post #: 802
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 10:51:49 AM   
makins

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 15/12/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

I saw this for a second time on Sunday night and one week on the cinema was almost empty - uh-oh...



i saw it for the second time at the weekend and the cinema was packed - uh-oh.... just sayin.

by the way my copy of the prometheus 'art of the film" book arrived yesterday and i would highly recommend anybody with even a vague interest in how the visuals for a production like this are put together to treat yourself to a copy, the artworks are completely stunning.

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 803
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 10:54:12 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1274
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr E


Stupid black goo spills out of stupid vases. Stupid character gets
infected with stupid black goo because stupid android put it in his
stupid drink. Stupid character makes love with stupid Ripley wannabe.
Stupid character gets torched and dies. Stupid Ripley wannabe becomes
pregnant. Stupid Ripley wannabe cuts out stupid baby squid from her
tummy tum tum. Stupid squid turns into stupid giant squid which
impregnates stupid big bald white space jockey. Stupid alien rips its
way out of stupid space jockey's chest. Stupid film ends. Stupid film
makes no sense.


I think I'm detecting a theme here.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 13/6/2012 10:56:45 AM >
Post #: 804
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 11:00:47 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1274
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: makins


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

I saw this for a second time on Sunday night and one week on the cinema was almost empty - uh-oh...



i saw it for the second time at the weekend and the cinema was packed - uh-oh.... just sayin.

by the way my copy of the prometheus 'art of the film" book arrived yesterday and i would highly recommend anybody with even a vague interest in how the visuals for a production like this are put together to treat yourself to a copy, the artworks are completely stunning.


I think I'll stick to my dog-eared copy of Giger's Alien, thanks. Just sayin'...

Delighted as I was to see so many of his unused Alien designs (the breast-like Pyramid structure, the earliest Facehugger design) why wasn't Giger more involved with this? Was he even asked?

While I'm sure the revelation that his "Space Jockey" design was in fact a spacesuit was as much of a surprise to Giger as it was to everyone else, I can't help thinking the Engineers woulda been more impressive had Giger designed them. The obvious disparity between the "Space Jockey" and its occupant was the most jarring thing about Prometheus for me - the Engineer simply didn't look like he belonged in that suit.

Sorry.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 13/6/2012 11:13:19 AM >

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Post #: 805
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 11:26:41 AM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 3010
Joined: 28/11/2006
From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA

Finally saw it at the BFI IMAX last night. 3 Stars is bang on for me. Clunky dialogue, convoluted and poorly acted in places... yet I found it strangely enjoyable as it went along . Perhaps it was just seeing something that bonkers! Some crazy stuff in there and better to have tried something different and partly failed than churn out the same old guff again I say.

If this was (more or less) the foundation of the 2 part Alien: Paradise they initially planned, then they should definitely have stuck with 2 parts for this story. There was just tooooo much in Prometheus and ideas and characters werenít fully explored and developed. It rushed along too much, robbing itself of proper pacing, tension and development. They should have slowed the pace of this down and ended it with discovery of the last remaining jockey. Then picked it up in a year or so to finish the story with part 2. Oh well....

But like I say... strangely enjoyable for me.


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Post #: 806
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 11:33:28 AM  1 votes
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
Pretentiousness subroutines engaged...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr E

Alien is my favourite film and I was so disappointed with this utter
turkey of a film I just had to write some thoughts. This is not much of
a review more of a list of all the bad points in this film. Quite
honestly there aren't many good points.

[WARNING - MAJOR SPOILERS]

BASIC FLAWS:

- Not scary at all, a complete lack of tension and suspense. In Alien
the edge of seat suspense was non-stop. every alien film has a different tone to every other one, and I felt a sense of foreboding and wondering what was gonna happen when it kicked off. Horses for courses. Alien is set on a mainly totally enclosed environment, this one has massive clear vistas the narrow and tone becomes more chaotic and fractured the more the film goes on. Big massive hopes, with the walls closing in as the film goes along depicted via the camerawork alone. Style matches content,

- Awful characters, clichťd sci-fi stereotypes. Too many characters
most of which were just plot devices waiting to die. somewhat necessary to the genre staples, with the wider themes being expressed in a simple context./color]

- Muddled and confusing storyline. It tried too hard to be an original
concept with deep, meaningful questions about our creators and where we
come from blah blah blah whilst also trying to be a horror film/prequel
to Alien. It failed and couldn't decide what it wanted to be. your opinion. By choosing to call the film Prometheus, Scott has invited us to look at that myth and compare/contrast how that story relates to aspects of the film and that provides the 'depth' of the film. I mean, for example, Prometheus is subjected to repeated and extreme abdominal agonies, part of him being torn out for seeking to align with/be equal to/discover the knowledge of his Gods, and Shaw, in wanting to stand next to her 'Gods' and find answers is being 'impudent' from a God's point of view in such a context and what happens to her? Extreme, repeated abdominal agony and something torn out of her. My own pretentious (if you like) take on any story designed to have 'levels' is to say shite like 'Look at a puddle. depending on how you look at it, you may see just the water it's made from, you may see a reflection of yourself, or you may see the entire sky.

Either come up with something completely original that is not connected
to the Alien universe in any way or do a full blown unpretentious Alien
prequel with a direct link between the space jockeys and the eggs/face
huggers/aliens/queen alien etc. There was no need for this awful film
to be connected to the alien universe and it may have slightly improved
had it not.given the evolution of the ooze into worms, bigger worms, etc, all the way to proto Alien, it could have existed as a stand alone story giving a 'what happens next ending, with the evolution to the alien we know yet to come or as a direct prequel, to me it does both

OTHER FLAWS:

- Bad dialogue. 'You wanna get laid?' scene - Absolutely no need for
this scene between vickers and janek. Added nothing. Film themes creation/birth/survival/creation driving everything a species does, so referencing sex isn't THAT odd and given the debate over whether Vickers is a robot, this would seem an attempt to confirm that she isn't (but it foreshadows the 'cant believe I nearly fucked a robot from Resurrection so it serves a function in it's film, references another part of the franchise AND doesn't settle the 'is she a robot' debate because in the later film the concept of robots being able to have sex is floated.

Also unfunny banter between two unnecessary co-pilots. lame but not ruinous

David talking to big white engineer in alien speak - probably one of
the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever seen, space jockey
then rips his head of for no reason. Brilliant! Not. Tons of other
examples I can't be bothered to list. There is a reason. David is attempting to speak to it in its own language, and it considers David beneath him. Not only beneath him, beneath the Engineer's creation too, a HOW DARE YOU ADDRESS ME reaction (lame comparative, geek tries to talk to 'cool kid', geek gets punched in the face for daring to believe he is worthy. Anyway, the created trying to speak to/be equal to the creator and getting punked by the creator is the theme, and this bit is the theme in action: someone wishing to align himself with 'God' and 'God's' reaction all in one brief moment

- Space Jockeys looked awful. Turns out they were just wearing suits
and are actually just big bald pumped up white guys who like to throw
people about. Giger must be laughing his head off. .physically superior 'gods' who wont lower themselves to talk to their creation,also frankenstein theme in reverse (kill your creation or it will kill you) the tension between creation and destruction depicted

- Score. Contributed nothing to the film. Created no tension
whatsoever.that's just an opinion, if the events left you cold, the music would jar, whatever it was

- Turns out Weyland is still alive and onboard the ship. It's supposed
to be a shock twist but no one cares. Guy Pearce is cast as Weyland and
wears the worst make up known to man. former, it's not that much of a surprise that he's on board (the 'recording' of Weyland would be very weird if he wasn't on board to point to exactly where Shaw and her other half were standing. The make up sucks, and hopefully there is some reason for casting Guy Pierce in the role, but can forgive the make up, personally

- hated the way most the crew didn't no what the mission was until they
got there. Unrealistic and downright bad writing. totally realisitic, in a company/organisation/life people very often know the ins and outs of their 'superiors' big picture plans and just do the job/thing they do. Vickers considers Shaw and employee, for example, and therefore not worthy of being treated as an equal. Also, those 'above' us having information/knowledge we don't have and attitudes to the 'unworthy' re knowing this stuff is totally in keeping with the Prmoetheus God/those the gods create themes

And finally to sum up...

Stupid black goo spills out of stupid vases. Stupid character gets
infected with stupid black goo because stupid android put it in his
stupid drink. Stupid character makes love with stupid Ripley wannabe.
Stupid character gets torched and dies. Stupid Ripley wannabe becomes
pregnant. Stupid Ripley wannabe cuts out stupid baby squid from her
tummy tum tum. Stupid squid turns into stupid giant squid which
impregnates stupid big bald white space jockey. Stupid alien rips its
way out of stupid space jockey's chest. Stupid film ends. Stupid film
makes no sense.

clearly it does make sense, since that's what happens, aside from the opinion that it is all stupid and happening for no good reason


< Message edited by jobloffski -- 13/6/2012 12:30:46 PM >


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Post #: 807
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 11:43:54 AM   
makins

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 15/12/2011
quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

I think I'll stick to my dog-eared copy of Giger's Alien, thanks. Just sayin'...



very nice. I have a very treasured but quite battered 1979 softcover copy myself i bought secondhand in the mid 80s from forbidden planet when they were still at their old address just off denmark street in a dirty and cramped but wonderful little shop. they had comics in one store and film and tv stuff in another and i practically lived in the film and tv one for most of my teeage years lol. anyway all the text in the book was in french but it was the only version you could get at that time they were like hens teeth very rare not like now pick them up on amazon for a fiver or whatevr, but i was and am such an alien nerd i had to have it even if i didnt have a clue what the descriptions and text were saying. i bought the hardback titan version years later and even though it was in english it didn't have the same appeal to me as my battered old original, though at least i now knew what giger was saying. anyway i dont think liking and enjoying prometheus and alien is a mutually exclusive thing i believe they compliment each other beautifully , but i see you are a hater and we will never agree so i will just leave it at that i think haha, peace ♥ .

< Message edited by makins -- 13/6/2012 11:58:01 AM >

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 808
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 12:29:30 PM   
makins

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 15/12/2011
quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

hopefully there is some reason for casting Guy Pierce in the role, but can forgive the make up, personally



i read somewhere they shot a scene where david watches weylands dreams in hypersleep and in them he's a young man again sailing on a yacht surrounded by beautiful women but the scene was cut.

< Message edited by makins -- 13/6/2012 12:30:57 PM >

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 809
RE: Thin film (spoilers) - 13/6/2012 12:44:26 PM   
pauljthomas


Posts: 722
Joined: 15/11/2006
From: a more wretched hive of scum & villainy
quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr E


Stupid black goo spills out of stupid vases. Stupid character gets
infected with stupid black goo because stupid android put it in his
stupid drink. Stupid character makes love with stupid Ripley wannabe.
Stupid character gets torched and dies. Stupid Ripley wannabe becomes
pregnant. Stupid Ripley wannabe cuts out stupid baby squid from her
tummy tum tum. Stupid squid turns into stupid giant squid which
impregnates stupid big bald white space jockey. Stupid alien rips its
way out of stupid space jockey's chest. Stupid film ends. Stupid film
makes no sense.


I think I'm detecting a theme here.


To me, that is the best & most accurate review I have seen so far. Prometheus is a bland film & basically, the trailer pretty much tells us everything about the film.


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