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RE: Religion You Say? - 30/5/2012 11:51:46 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
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From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

OOOOK clearly you have not read what I typed and neither have you actually read the links. The Muslims in Indonesia threatened violence if the concert went ahead, this forced the concert organisers to abandon the gig despite the concert selling out in 2weeks, this shows the country is marginally run by a religious dictatorship which many of its citizens do not agree with.

Why should Gaga tone down her act, that's the whole point of it isn't it? if you don't want to see it then don't watch it right? so because you don't like it you threaten violence!? is that the way the Muslim religion works?


It's how most hardliners work. Duh. It's barely restricted to religion as well. Even Hinduism (cough Fire cough) and Christianity (far less today, thankfully) are guilty of this. They will commit violence even on those of their very same religion if it goes against what they believe is the interpretation of their religion.

quote:


And to counter your point, its a music concert, its hardly effecting the cultural dignity of Indonesia is it and since when have any Muslims changed or toned down their cultural stand points to suit anyone else?

The whole point is the hypocrisy involved here, so called religious followers that claim others are infidels and devil worshippers for simply wanting to see a certain musician yet threaten violence if they don't get their way. It is also very annoying and sad to see how these people always get their way and its not just in Indonesia either, I feel for the locals who wanted to have some fun and see the show.




You do realize that a big majority of the locals, especially in Java, are themselves Muslims and are not exactly comparable to the Muslims hardliners who caused this and the conservative Muslims in Aceh? I honestly wouldn't recommend to generalize this way, especially when discussing a country like Indonesia. There's a reason why in the Indonesian film industry they sometimes get porn stars to act in their films. It's like calling all Catholics crazy because of the protesters in the Philippines when Germanotta herself was raised as one.

Oh and...



Sorry if I offended any Muslims with the previously huge picture.


< Message edited by Deviation -- 30/5/2012 11:59:32 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Phubbs)
Post #: 31
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:12:47 AM   
Rhubarb


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ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 32
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:16:48 AM   
Deviation


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_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 33
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:21:30 AM   
Rhubarb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 34
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:24:13 AM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs
So what religion favours violence against your fellow man (generally these days), the religious cleric's or whoever want to protect their way of life and culture by banning an over the top singer and if they don't get their way they will resort to violence!? Is that the religious way of the Muslim faith then?


They didn't ban her, it was Lady Gaga's management who pulled the plug on it.

Personally I have no issue with a purposefully risqué performer being asked to tone things down in order to respect another countries culture. Thats kind of how the world works.

I'm not really sure how your violence rant ties in to this story either.




OOOOK clearly you have not read what I typed and neither have you actually read the links. The Muslims in Indonesia threatened violence if the concert went ahead, this forced the concert organisers to abandon the gig despite the concert selling out in 2weeks, this shows the country is marginally run by a religious dictatorship which many of its citizens do not agree with.

Why should Gaga tone down her act, that's the whole point of it isn't it? if you don't want to see it then don't watch it right? so because you don't like it you threaten violence!? is that the way the Muslim religion works?
And to counter your point, its a music concert, its hardly effecting the cultural dignity of Indonesia is it and since when have any Muslims changed or toned down their cultural stand points to suit anyone else?

The whole point is the hypocrisy involved here, so called religious followers that claim others are infidels and devil worshippers for simply wanting to see a certain musician yet threaten violence if they don't get their way. It is also very annoying and sad to see how these people always get their way and its not just in Indonesia either, I feel for the locals who wanted to have some fun and see the show.




While Phubbs has gone on a borderline anti-islam rant he's got a point. Religious twats banning concerts can't really be excused and put down to 'respecting their culture' - it's Lady Gaga FFS!

I've always said that the problem with a lot of muslims is that they need to chill out with the religion and stock up on the beers! Invite some girls and have a fucking party. This goes for right wing Christians, Jews and Hindus as well - stop telling everyone how to behave because deep down you're just fucking jealous - throw off the shackles and bust some moves to 50 Cent In Da Club



Its not an anti Islam rant, its pointing out a fact at how ridiculous and hypocritical these people are, just because they are Muslim doesn't mean I'm being racist or anti Islam, had it been anyone else I would be saying the same thing. Also the fact that the country seems to be governed by the hardliners as many regular folk would have like to have gone. Why should these people get their way is what I'm saying.

It annoys me how whenever people talk about things like this you are always labelled as racist or anti whatever, geez you can't say a thing anymore without someone accusing you of something

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)
Post #: 35
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:24:44 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ


_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 36
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:28:01 AM   
Rhubarb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 37
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:30:39 AM   
garvielloken


Posts: 1186
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

Yes, I just abused this thread to post about Virgins From Hell. I want to see Virgins from Hell.






Virgins From Hell is awesome. Lady Terminator, Mystics In Bali, The Devil's Sword and The Warrior are just as good. Indonesian films from the 80s were badass.

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Post #: 38
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:33:17 AM   
Rhubarb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 39
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:36:45 AM   
paul_ie86


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Post #: 40
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:39:39 AM   
Rhubarb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 41
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:47:27 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs
OOOOK clearly you have not read what I typed and neither have you actually read the links.


I did read your post, it was just a little difficult seeing your actual point through the haze of the hysterical and Islamaphobic rant that surrounded said point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs
The Muslims in Indonesia threatened violence if the concert went ahead, this forced the concert organisers to abandon the gig despite the concert selling out in 2weeks, this shows the country is marginally run by a religious dictatorship which many of its citizens do not agree with.


"The Muslims"? You mean all the muslims? Or just the hardliners? Because Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim nation you know, and the biggest one in the world. You're spouting nonsense, and jingoistic, agenda driven nonsense at that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs
Why should Gaga tone down her act, that's the whole point of it isn't it? if you don't want to see it then don't watch it right? so because you don't like it you threaten violence!? is that the way the Muslim religion works?


Why should she tone down the act? To respect the laws and wishes of the culture that she is placing herself in. Simples. Based on your first linked it article it appears to be the police that requested that she do so too, not "the muslims".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs
And to counter your point, its a music concert, its hardly effecting the cultural dignity of Indonesia is it and since when have any Muslims changed or toned down their cultural stand points to suit anyone else?


For one I think you're underestimating just how culturally affecting major events can be (musical or otherwise). The second half of your sentence is right wing rhetoric 101 and ground in nothing but your own personal discriminations (you only need to bring up "PC gone mad" and "'elf 'n' safety now for the full house). I have plenty of Muslim friends who have "changed or toned down their cultural stand points to suit" the needs of others, thats HOW WE ALL GET ALONG. It's the same with my friends who are Christian or any other religion, its about respect.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 31/5/2012 12:48:11 AM >

(in reply to Phubbs)
Post #: 42
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:48:39 AM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24508
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
Simples.



Ouch, you were doing so well.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 43
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:48:44 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phubbs


Its not an anti Islam rant, its pointing out a fact at how ridiculous and hypocritical these people are, just because they are Muslim doesn't mean I'm being racist or anti Islam, had it been anyone else I would be saying the same thing. Also the fact that the country seems to be governed by the hardliners as many regular folk would have like to have gone. Why should these people get their way is what I'm saying.


Only it isn't, it is a secular country which however gives some importance to the religious ministers and the Ulema Council and sometimes their views don't pass. It's actually governed by corruption.



< Message edited by Deviation -- 31/5/2012 12:50:54 AM >


_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Phubbs)
Post #: 44
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:50:21 AM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24508
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home
PS, blatantly she should not have had to tone down her act, when the people who are fans of hers bought tickets legitimately to see her perform, they didn't pay to see her perform a toned down show, and the police only told her to tone it down because of trouble from some nutjob hardliners. The OP might be a mad anti-islam nutjob too, but that doesn't diminish a good point in there (somewhere).

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 45
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:51:08 AM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24508
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home
pps



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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 46
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 12:55:14 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: garvielloken


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

Yes, I just abused this thread to post about Virgins From Hell. I want to see Virgins from Hell.






Virgins From Hell is awesome. Lady Terminator, Mystics In Bali, The Devil's Sword and The Warrior are just as good. Indonesian films from the 80s were badass.


I've been told they rival the Italians in filth and madness. Please tell me this is true.





_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to garvielloken)
Post #: 47
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 1:01:46 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb

PS, blatantly she should not have had to tone down her act, when the people who are fans of hers bought tickets legitimately to see her perform, they didn't pay to see her perform a toned down show, and the police only told her to tone it down because of trouble from some nutjob hardliners. The OP might be a mad anti-islam nutjob too, but that doesn't diminish a good point in there (somewhere).


I agree with your sentiment, but unfortunately we do live in a world where things like performances and concerts (and films, and lyrics and books) do differ on a state by state/cultural basis. I'm not saying I agree with this, but that I understand why it happens.

I'd be interested to find out if any of her work (concert DVD's, music videos) are either changed by her own people or by the countries censorship/certification people in advance of being screened to the public and things like that, just to see if there is a dramatic difference in Gaga's persona in Indonesia to Western Europe or the US. For all we know much of her work might already be adapted or filtered for different audiences around the world, to appeal to their sensibilities and cultural habits.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 31/5/2012 1:03:09 AM >

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 48
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 1:03:31 AM   
paul_ie86


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Post #: 49
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 1:03:56 AM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24508
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb

PS, blatantly she should not have had to tone down her act, when the people who are fans of hers bought tickets legitimately to see her perform, they didn't pay to see her perform a toned down show, and the police only told her to tone it down because of trouble from some nutjob hardliners. The OP might be a mad anti-islam nutjob too, but that doesn't diminish a good point in there (somewhere).


I agree with your sentiment, but unfortunately we do live in a world where things like performances and concerts (and films, and lyrics and books) do differ on a state by state/cultural basis. I'd be interested to find out if any of her work (concert DVD's, music videos) are either changed by her own people or by the countries censorship/certification people in advance of being screened to the public and things like that, just to see if there is a dramatic difference in Gaga's persona in Indonesia to Western Europe or the US. For all we know much of her work might already be adapted or filtered for different audiences around the world, to appeal to their sensibilities and cultural habits.


I kind of doubt it to be honest, with her. And it wouldn't make sense for her to be so reticent for her to tone down her show if she knew she was already being image-softened in that part of the world anyway.

< Message edited by Rhubarb -- 31/5/2012 1:04:10 AM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 50
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 1:04:25 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
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From: Enemies of Film HQ
I remember reading her performance was toned down for the Philippines (a very conservative Roman Catholic country which doesn't have divorce) and her concert in South Korea was rated AO. Fucking bizarre in the case of South Korea.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to adambatman82)
Post #: 51
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 1:04:59 AM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24508
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home
oh yeah



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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 52
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 1:11:49 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

I remember reading her performance was toned down for the Philippines (a very conservative Roman Catholic country which doesn't have divorce) and her concert in South Korea was rated AO. Fucking bizarre in the case of South Korea.


A quick google confirms that she toned down her performance when she played in front of the president too. The point being that she will adapt her performance if the situation calls for it.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 31/5/2012 1:13:15 AM >

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 53
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 1:19:42 AM   
Rhubarb


Posts: 24508
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: No Direction Home
but should she have to?



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quote:

ORIGINAL: FritzlFan

You organisational skills sicken me, Rhubarb.



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Post #: 54
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 1:29:20 AM   
Phubbs


Posts: 658
Joined: 3/4/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhubarb

but should she have to?





Exactly, no one is forcing anyone to actually watch so I fail to see why it would 'destroy our nation’s morality and ruin our dignity'
Slightly ridiculous statement.

Her previous performances have been toned down sure but maybe those times Gaga and her crews weren't threatened with violence? if you ask politely then maybe people will oblige, if you just threaten then it won't get you very far...depending haha.

(in reply to Rhubarb)
Post #: 55
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 9:32:34 AM   
jonson


Posts: 9074
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

For one I think you're underestimating just how culturally affecting major events can be (musical or otherwise). The second half of your sentence is right wing rhetoric 101 and ground in nothing but your own personal discriminations (you only need to bring up "PC gone mad" and "'elf 'n' safety now for the full house).


this cliche

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

I have plenty of Muslim friends who have "changed or toned down their cultural stand points to suit" the needs of others, thats HOW WE ALL GET ALONG. It's the same with my friends who are Christian or any other religion, its about respect.


followed by that cliche is brilliant. Can I use it in my sig please?

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Post #: 56
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 10:02:33 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

For one I think you're underestimating just how culturally affecting major events can be (musical or otherwise). The second half of your sentence is right wing rhetoric 101 and ground in nothing but your own personal discriminations (you only need to bring up "PC gone mad" and "'elf 'n' safety now for the full house).


this cliche

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

I have plenty of Muslim friends who have "changed or toned down their cultural stand points to suit" the needs of others, thats HOW WE ALL GET ALONG. It's the same with my friends who are Christian or any other religion, its about respect.


followed by that cliche is brilliant. Can I use it in my sig please?


I don't think I understand, I didn't use either in the context that you're implying though.

With regards to the "PC gone mad" line I was referring to it, not using it. The OP seems like the kind of person who would refer to "PC gone mad", based on the jargon spouted (and which I quoted).

As for my "friends" point the OP said "since when have any Muslims changed or toned down their cultural stand points to suit anyone else" and I simply pointed out that I know plenty of Muslims that have done so. I wasn't saying "I don't hate Muslims, some of my best friends are Muslim" or something of that ilk.

(in reply to jonson)
Post #: 57
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 10:14:41 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54583
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

I remember reading her performance was toned down for the Philippines (a very conservative Roman Catholic country which doesn't have divorce) and her concert in South Korea was rated AO. Fucking bizarre in the case of South Korea.


Not sure why - South Korea applies extensive censorship to music (and TV) via a government ministry. They have long lists of what can't be done and regularly update lists of songs they've acted against. The culture seems to pay lip service to an astonishing level of puritanism that doesn't apply to real life.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 58
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 10:24:24 AM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6286
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
At the risk of inciting a holy war, I feel that this thread is the appropriate one to mention that religious intolerence of music isn't exclusive to any one religion. And we don't even have to go back to the early days of rock & roll for examples - a mere 19 years ago, the predominantly DUP council of the fair town of Ballymena in Co Antrim decided to cancel a planned performance at the Showgrounds to save their constituents from "the four D's - drugs, drink, devil and debauchery".  The banned band?  Electric Light Orchestra.  I shit you not.

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Post #: 59
RE: Religion You Say? - 31/5/2012 10:28:15 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54583
Joined: 1/10/2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 60
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