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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 21/1/2013 1:06:16 PM

great_badir

Posts: 4172
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle

Interesting the number of people saying about how people have "low standards" and don't care how or what they are watching.

A good proportion of downloads these days are in HD, very often 1080p ("do you have consider", etc), both films and TV shows. Even if the film or TV show is not in HD, there is invariably a DVD rip which is effectively as good as watching a DVD.

So when you bring that in to the mix, it is blatantly people who just refuse to pay to see it at the cinema or buy it on blu ray or DVD.

As I said a couple of pages ago, I have illegally downloaded films in the past, but am now a reformed character and haven't done so for a number of years. The closest I get these days is watching South Park being streamed online - something which Trey and Matt do not mind - and some films on YouTube (mainly stuff which is pretty much impossible to get hold of in this country - load of also-ran spaghetti westerns, for example). Most of my mates are forever downloading stuff and they have, literally, terrabytes worth of stuff. I'm convinced that one of them, one day, is going to come a cropper.

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Post #: 241

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 21/1/2013 1:20:35 PM

sanchia

Posts: 16685
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Also, I'm not sure if it has been cleared up, but is downloading copyrighted material technically classed as theft, or is it some other crime? Also, what are the laws regarding the download of tv shows that are only available on pay tv channels? What about the streaming/downloading of PPV events such as MMA and Boxing? I know loads of people that stream boxing to avoid having to pay the PPV costs via Sky/Virgin etc, is that technically an illegal act due to copyright? What about watching the Premiership games via other broadcasters online, I'm thinking of the channels from Dubai/UAE etc. If I stream those and dont pay, is it the same criminal act as downloading a Blu Ray rip from a torrent site? Or is there a distinction between the two? If there is no distinction and they are the same copywright infringement style crime, what are peoples thoughts on those acts as opposed to the act of downloading a Blu Ray rip?

Apparently it is not theft but infringement of a non tangible article (according to Professor Stuart Green of Rutger Law School) and as such cannot be called theft. It makes the assumption that the person would buy that film/music in the first place which cannot be proven to be correct. It is apparently a term which various businesses have attempted to attach to downloading as it is more emotive and more likely to gain a response from juries than if defined as the intangible product it actually is.

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Post #: 242

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 21/1/2013 2:01:49 PM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

Also, I'm not sure if it has been cleared up, but is downloading copyrighted material technically classed as theft, or is it some other crime? Also, what are the laws regarding the download of tv shows that are only available on pay tv channels? What about the streaming/downloading of PPV events such as MMA and Boxing? I know loads of people that stream boxing to avoid having to pay the PPV costs via Sky/Virgin etc, is that technically an illegal act due to copyright? What about watching the Premiership games via other broadcasters online, I'm thinking of the channels from Dubai/UAE etc. If I stream those and dont pay, is it the same criminal act as downloading a Blu Ray rip from a torrent site? Or is there a distinction between the two? If there is no distinction and they are the same copywright infringement style crime, what are peoples thoughts on those acts as opposed to the act of downloading a Blu Ray rip?

Apparently it is not theft but infringement of a non tangible article (according to Professor Stuart Green of Rutger Law School) and as such cannot be called theft. It makes the assumption that the person would buy that film/music in the first place which cannot be proven to be correct. It is apparently a term which various businesses have attempted to attach to downloading as it is more emotive and more likely to gain a response from juries than if defined as the intangible product it actually is.

Interesting, so as things stand, anyone downloading dvd/bluray rips online can't be classed a thief? I assume that a person that rips a dvd/bluray and uploads it would be classed differently and would be guilty of a different crime, also presumaly not theft (unless they had actually stolen a copy of the film to then upload)?

I also assume that a person uploading a dvd/bluray rip to a torrent site would be classed the same as someone uploading a rip to something like You Tube? So why do some people class watching a ripped copy of a movie on You Tube differently to downloading a rip from a torrent site? Was it Cool Breeze that said that, I'd have to check back a few pages, but it might've been? For me, there isn't much of a moral difference between watching a rip of a dvd/blu on You Tube and downloading it to burn to a disc. Obviously watching public domain movies online is a different story, but if I watched Armageddon on You Tube (I just did a quick search for full movies on You Tube and that came up top) there cant be much of a moral difference between that and downloading it, sticking it on a disc and watching it on my dvd player.

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Post #: 243

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 21/1/2013 2:09:37 PM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Bottom line: illegal downloading is wrong, and hurts the film industry.It also hurts retail outlets which is especially notable this week with the closure of HMV resulting in a lot of job losses.

On this, I think I mentioned it before, but I'd be really interested to read the articles/studies that you;ve based this on, got a link?

I was under the impression that HMV's demise was more related to some questionable business models that couldn't stand up to the (legal) music download market? I've not seen/read anything to suggest that piracy or illegal movie downloads have had a direct impact on HMV or lead to it's current situation, likewise Blockbuster.

I'm sure others are far more clued up with this type of thing, and elab touched on it, but all indications are that the industry is perfectly healthy and box office takings and records are being broken on an almost weekly basis during the Summer period. I'm not sure that (i.e. I dont know, and have never read any studies to confirm/deny it) piracy has an negative impact on smaller bidet/indie films either. Most people that I know that download don't download indie movies, they download the big blockbuster movies (Dark Knight Rises, Avengers, Brave and Skyfall being the ones I most commonly noted last year), no one was getting smaller movies like VHS (apart from me, I downloaded that as it looked like a UK release was never coming). So yea, I dunno if Piracy is really killing the industry and leading to high street closures like you say, but you know, if people can provide me with more info, I'd be happy to read.

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Post #: 244

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 21/1/2013 10:29:26 PM

Incanus

Posts: 15971
Joined: 23/7/2008
From: Winterfell

In my consideration, a discussion that tends to rely on the fleeting and somewhat vague notion of what is moral or immoral will inevitably devolve into a discussion of opinion.

Rather, the legal argument, if any, should be made (and perhaps debunked appropriately) to determine the legal nature of sharing copies of films via the Internet.

As to the initial question, if specific evidence were to be provided by either side in this raging battle, say, in the form of numbers and proper associations, then a more solid base for discussion would be made available. Even then, however, this evidence would have to be shown to be causally linked to the killing of the industry, or, on the contrary, inconsequential thereto.

And remember, one has to prove first that there is in fact a "killing" involved, to which what the industry commonly refers to as "piracy" greatly contributes right now.

A key word is "industry." Industry turns out products: items to be commercially exploited. In this sense, money that the industry would expect to end up in its pockets is being lost to it.

On the other hand, a film is a work of art: once it's out, it's hard to control who and how one has access to it.

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Post #: 245

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 21/1/2013 10:42:20 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19962
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From: Springfield

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Post #: 246

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 21/1/2013 11:09:36 PM

Incanus

Posts: 15971
Joined: 23/7/2008
From: Winterfell

It's always a comfort to know, Homer.

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Post #: 247

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 23/1/2013 7:31:58 PM

Moorish

Posts: 278
Joined: 17/10/2005
From: Scotland

True fact: the people in my workplace who watch downloaded films on lunch breaks are all the less intelligent and lower grade folk. I think this truth says a lot about the debate.

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Post #: 248

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 10:01:21 AM

Chief

Posts: 7008
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The Kingdom, Scotland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moorish

True fact: the people in my workplace who watch downloaded films on lunch breaks are all the less intelligent and lower grade folk. I think this truth says a lot about the debate.

How are these gauged, what is your comparable?

Would you consider porntrooper "lower grade folk" as he admits to watching downloaded movies (along with pouring plenty money into the industry)?

< Message edited by Chief -- 24/1/2013 10:03:11 AM >

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Post #: 249

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 10:23:44 AM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moorish

True fact: the people in my workplace who watch downloaded films on lunch breaks are all the less intelligent and lower grade folk. I think this truth says a lot about the debate.

How are these gauged, what is your comparable?

Would you consider porntrooper "lower grade folk" as he admits to watching downloaded movies (along with pouring plenty money into the industry)?

That's hilarious, Moorish.

Like Chief, I'm interested to know how you gauge these people's intelligence and how you class them as lower grade? As stated, I download and have done for years, less so now though (primarily due to anti piracy measures like Cinavia, which is probably the most effective anit-piracy tool I've seen since the days of VHS) and I remain a huge industry consumer. Am I 'lower grade' and if so how do you get that 'truth'? Genuinely interested to hear if that simple fact about me (that I download movies on occasion) translates to you being able to make a clear and accurate judgement about my character? You're not the first person to post similar sweeping generalisations, and so far I don't think anyone posting this kind of shite actually has had the intelligence to explain themselves or to enter into a discussion on piracy. I've posted in here a fair bit over the last week or so, as I find the subject genuinely (if people are willing to discuss) interesting. I think I've made a few reasonable points in my post, and tried to open up a few lines of discussion. It's good to know you're of a high enough grade, class and intelligence to miss out on all that reasonable discussion and head straight for 'load of old bollocks'

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Post #: 250

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 10:40:26 AM

elab49

Posts: 51544
Joined: 1/10/2005

Moorish, it would have been better if you'd taken time to read the thread and perhaps realised the terms you use (which say more about you than about the debate) could be seen as an insulting attack on other users.

But this has been noted and it would be helpful if this thread didn't drift off-topic because of this post into a personal argument.

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Post #: 251

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 12:11:08 PM

Invader_Ace

Posts: 1523
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moorish

True fact: the people in my workplace who watch downloaded films on lunch breaks are all the less intelligent and lower grade folk. I think this truth says a lot about the debate.

'uh excuse mah crazy ass but I find it straight-up distressin dat yo ass is bustin lyrics gibberish ta me, please drop a rhyme Italian'

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Post #: 252

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 2:01:16 PM

Olaf

Posts: 23350
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41�N 93�W

quote:

ORIGINAL: Invader_Ace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moorish

True fact: the people in my workplace who watch downloaded films on lunch breaks are all the less intelligent and lower grade folk. I think this truth says a lot about the debate.

'uh excuse mah crazy ass but I find it straight-up distressin dat yo ass is bustin lyrics gibberish ta me, please drop a rhyme Italian'

Is this Zimbabwean?

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Post #: 253

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 6:41:26 PM

Ref

Posts: 7197
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Leicester

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

I really hate this sense of entitlement that people who watched pirated or illegally downloaded copies have, that they have a right to watch/ own something without having to pay what it costs. I despise people like this. If you can't afford it, you don't get it!! Simple as that. By paying what it costs we are allowing the movies we like to continue to thrive. No one can call themself a true lover of film if they go down the illegal download route all the time.

Testify, brother!

Here's something else to consider: how are cinemas supposed to pay their employees when people are illegally streaming or downloading the latest releases?

Completely agree with Don and MonsterCat. I'm just gonna repost what I wrote on TORn regarding this issue:~

And that is the problem right there. If you don't like the pirated copy you don't buy it the DVD/cinema ticket. That is where the money is lost in the film industry. It's not the actors/actresses/directors that lose money, but the lower paid people within the industry that have to deal with the repercussions of these actions. The assistants to the wardrobe department or even the cinema chain where you frequent with low paid workers - these are the people who will lose out.

Why don't you go to your local cinema/buy the DVD from your local shop and help out the economy at the same time instead of committing theft?

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Post #: 254

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 6:54:05 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18874
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Invader_Ace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moorish

True fact: the people in my workplace who watch downloaded films on lunch breaks are all the less intelligent and lower grade folk. I think this truth says a lot about the debate.

'uh excuse mah crazy ass but I find it straight-up distressin dat yo ass is bustin lyrics gibberish ta me, please drop a rhyme Italian'

Is this Zimbabwean?

Heehee.

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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 8:10:43 PM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL:

Why don't you go to your local cinema/buy the DVD from your local shop and help out the economy at the same time instead of committing theft?

Firstly, i think we established the download of a movie is not theft. However, we can all agree it's an illegal act.

Secondly, I thought we had also commented on the fact that box office takings arent really falling? Is there any info to suggest box office returns, and by extension cinema profit and the economy etc are taking a direct hit due to illegal movie downloads? Ive asked a few times for people to hook me up with links to read this kinda data. So far nothing.

Third and final point, why dont i go to the cinema, rent or buy movies rather than downloading? What if I do all those? What i I have an Unlimited Card? A LoveFilm account, Sky Movies and that I also buy blu Ray's on a regular basis?? What if I do all those, yet still do the odd illegal download? So I see Dark Knight Rises on more than one occasion at the cinema using my Unlimited Card, i buy a drink and a bit of food on eah occasion and I then buy the soundtrack, I buy the Blu and yet between the cinema and home release, I download a copy? How am I not contributing? Where do you stand on some o the other points i raised in my other posts, cos so far most people calling downloaders scum and thiefs and lower class etc havent offered much in the way of discussion. Where do you stand on the download of tv shows from stateside proor to uk broadcast, for example?

< Message edited by porntrooper -- 24/1/2013 8:12:42 PM >

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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 8:25:41 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18874
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

quote:

ORIGINAL:

Why don't you go to your local cinema/buy the DVD from your local shop and help out the economy at the same time instead of committing theft?

Firstly, i think we established the download of a movie is not theft. However, we can all agree it's an illegal act.

Secondly, I thought we had also commented on the fact that box office takings arent really falling? Is there any info to suggest box office returns, and by extension cinema profit and the economy etc are taking a direct hit due to illegal movie downloads? Ive asked a few times for people to hook me up with links to read this kinda data. So far nothing.

Third and final point, why dont i go to the cinema, rent or buy movies rather than downloading? What if I do all those? What i I have an Unlimited Card? A LoveFilm account, Sky Movies and that I also buy blu Ray's on a regular basis?? What if I do all those, yet still do the odd illegal download? So I see Dark Knight Rises on more than one occasion at the cinema using my Unlimited Card, i buy a drink and a bit of food on eah occasion and I then buy the soundtrack, I buy the Blu and yet between the cinema and home release, I download a copy? How am I not contributing? Where do you stand on some o the other points i raised in my other posts, cos so far most people calling downloaders scum and thiefs and lower class etc havent offered much in the way of discussion. Where do you stand on the download of tv shows from stateside proor to uk broadcast, for example?

Do you feel entitled to have a product that the company is within its rights to control and distribute as it sees fit?

I saw Dredd three times at the cinema, got the soundtrack and bought the Blu Ray. Should I have gone and downloaded the film as well? Am I allowed to?

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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 8:26:07 PM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2944
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

Third and final point, why dont i go to the cinema, rent or buy movies rather than downloading? What if I do all those? What i I have an Unlimited Card? A LoveFilm account, Sky Movies and that I also buy blu Ray's on a regular basis?? What if I do all those, yet still do the odd illegal download? So I see Dark Knight Rises on more than one occasion at the cinema using my Unlimited Card, i buy a drink and a bit of food on eah occasion and I then buy the soundtrack, I buy the Blu and yet between the cinema and home release, I download a copy? How am I not contributing?

Thing is though, what percentage of downloaders go to those lengths? Or are they mostly people who want "free" stuff?

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Post #: 258

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 9:15:22 PM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

quote:

ORIGINAL:

Why don't you go to your local cinema/buy the DVD from your local shop and help out the economy at the same time instead of committing theft?

Firstly, i think we established the download of a movie is not theft. However, we can all agree it's an illegal act.

Secondly, I thought we had also commented on the fact that box office takings arent really falling? Is there any info to suggest box office returns, and by extension cinema profit and the economy etc are taking a direct hit due to illegal movie downloads? Ive asked a few times for people to hook me up with links to read this kinda data. So far nothing.

Third and final point, why dont i go to the cinema, rent or buy movies rather than downloading? What if I do all those? What i I have an Unlimited Card? A LoveFilm account, Sky Movies and that I also buy blu Ray's on a regular basis?? What if I do all those, yet still do the odd illegal download? So I see Dark Knight Rises on more than one occasion at the cinema using my Unlimited Card, i buy a drink and a bit of food on eah occasion and I then buy the soundtrack, I buy the Blu and yet between the cinema and home release, I download a copy? How am I not contributing? Where do you stand on some o the other points i raised in my other posts, cos so far most people calling downloaders scum and thiefs and lower class etc havent offered much in the way of discussion. Where do you stand on the download of tv shows from stateside proor to uk broadcast, for example?

Do you feel entitled to have a product that the company is within its rights to control and distribute as it sees fit?

I saw Dredd three times at the cinema, got the soundtrack and bought the Blu Ray. Should I have gone and downloaded the film as well? Am I allowed to?

Do I feel entitled to the product? No. That wasnt really what I was getting at, my point was more a counter to the sweeping generalisation that downloaders either do not care about film, are not interested in quality, do not contribute towards the industry and are somehow morally bankrupt. I object to bein called a thief. Am i commiting an illegal act? Yea, but I am not a thief. I, and Im sure most, commit illegal acts quite frequently, however theyre pretty low on what I consider terrible on my personal moral compass... Speeding for example. Im not trying to justify the download as being ok either. Im simply putting a counter argument to the 'downloaders are scummy theives' that is commonly rolled out.

I also still havent seen any real evidence put forth that illegal downloads really are hurting box offie takings, cinema admissions and the economy overall. So, the only thing I can really offer is my counter to the (tedious) argument that anyone downloading is scum etc.

Are you allowed to download Dredd? Is it okay to? Technically, no. No more than it was okay for me to download TDKR. Doing so was, technically illegal. Would i judge you as somekind of morally bankrupt tosspot if you did? No. Would other people? Based on some comments here, they would. Would you commit an illegal act by doing 80 on te motorway? Yea. Would I consider your morals out of whack? No. Others may. Do you download tv? I see some people seem to see a difference between te download of tv and movies. Some people even saw a moral difference between downloading a film and watching a movie on You Tube. I don really see the difference. Again, Im just puttin points forward for discussion.

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Post #: 259

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 9:21:46 PM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi

quote:

Third and final point, why dont i go to the cinema, rent or buy movies rather than downloading? What if I do all those? What i I have an Unlimited Card? A LoveFilm account, Sky Movies and that I also buy blu Ray's on a regular basis?? What if I do all those, yet still do the odd illegal download? So I see Dark Knight Rises on more than one occasion at the cinema using my Unlimited Card, i buy a drink and a bit of food on eah occasion and I then buy the soundtrack, I buy the Blu and yet between the cinema and home release, I download a copy? How am I not contributing?

Thing is though, what percentage of downloaders go to those lengths? Or are they mostly people who want "free" stuff?

I honestly have no idea. Do you? Does anyone? Is there any evidence to suggest it splits either way? I have my experience, as Ive explained elsewhere, and that of other posters here. Other people I know just want stuff for free. How tht all translates into a real impact to the industry, Ive no idea. But I hear a lot of people claiming a real impact on box office and the economy. Ive yet to see it though. As i say above, i dont feel an entitlement to the industry product because I consume a lot, I just think the murky world of movie downloads isnt simply a black and white and people dont automatically fall in the category of thieves, scum an people that dont care about the industry.

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Post #: 260

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 10:31:31 PM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

I really hate this sense of entitlement that people who watched pirated or illegally downloaded copies have, that they have a right to watch/ own something without having to pay what it costs. I despise people like this. If you can't afford it, you don't get it!! Simple as that. By paying what it costs we are allowing the movies we like to continue to thrive. No one can call themself a true lover of film if they go down the illegal download route all the time.

Testify, brother!

Here's something else to consider: how are cinemas supposed to pay their employees when people are illegally streaming or downloading the latest releases?

Completely agree with Don and MonsterCat. I'm just gonna repost what I wrote on TORn regarding this issue:~

And that is the problem right there. If you don't like the pirated copy you don't buy it the DVD/cinema ticket. That is where the money is lost in the film industry. It's not the actors/actresses/directors that lose money, but the lower paid people within the industry that have to deal with the repercussions of these actions. The assistants to the wardrobe department or even the cinema chain where you frequent with low paid workers - these are the people who will lose out.

Why don't you go to your local cinema/buy the DVD from your local shop and help out the economy at the same time instead of committing theft?

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6693/business/cinema-attendance-in-uk/

One very quick Google search for UK Cinema Stats turned this up. This would seem to suggest that cinema attendance has, in general, been on the rise in the UK since the mid-eighties, with a particular increase from the mid-ninetiea to 2011. Ticket prices are rising but that doesnt seem to be affecting attendance levels either. It looks like attandance was peaking around 2001ish and is now still we above where attendance figures were in the nineties. In these days of superfast home fibre broadband, if downloading was a huge issue for the industry, wouldn we see that reflected inthe attendance stats in someway? Are the lower paid workers in the cinema chains being affected? Hard to say, but cinema turnover has increased and seems to be at an all time high in recent years. Thinking interms of box office, as opposed to attendance, and it seems that each year opening weekend records are bein broken on a regular basis. Thinking of 2012 alone weve had a record breaking Bond movie becomin the highest grossing film in the UK. We had Hunger Games breaking records, Avengers, and didn Ted manage to break some kind of R rated box office record? Again, thinking in attendance, turnover and economy terms, it appears cinema is thriving. Admittdly thats based on this link, and a second I looked at that was US domestic based - I think the site was called The Numbers, if anyone wants to look, but I may look a little more tomorrow of people have any interest.

< Message edited by porntrooper -- 24/1/2013 10:33:00 PM >

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Post #: 261

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 11:03:00 PM

The2ndRing

Posts: 3949
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: rehab

I'll be honest I haven't looked back at the other 9 pages of this thread. However when I went to see Titanic 3D at a local Cinema, I paid for 4 adults and 1 child, and some sweets/popcorn (not loads of stuff) and it came to the best part of �100. It's been said thousands of times before, but if they want to combat piracy, stop making it so fucking expensive to go to the cinema. ARGH!

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Post #: 262

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 11:20:58 PM

Ref

Posts: 7197
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Leicester

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

I really hate this sense of entitlement that people who watched pirated or illegally downloaded copies have, that they have a right to watch/ own something without having to pay what it costs. I despise people like this. If you can't afford it, you don't get it!! Simple as that. By paying what it costs we are allowing the movies we like to continue to thrive. No one can call themself a true lover of film if they go down the illegal download route all the time.

Testify, brother!

Here's something else to consider: how are cinemas supposed to pay their employees when people are illegally streaming or downloading the latest releases?

Completely agree with Don and MonsterCat. I'm just gonna repost what I wrote on TORn regarding this issue:~

And that is the problem right there. If you don't like the pirated copy you don't buy it the DVD/cinema ticket. That is where the money is lost in the film industry. It's not the actors/actresses/directors that lose money, but the lower paid people within the industry that have to deal with the repercussions of these actions. The assistants to the wardrobe department or even the cinema chain where you frequent with low paid workers - these are the people who will lose out.

Why don't you go to your local cinema/buy the DVD from your local shop and help out the economy at the same time instead of committing theft?

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6693/business/cinema-attendance-in-uk/

One very quick Google search for UK Cinema Stats turned this up. This would seem to suggest that cinema attendance has, in general, been on the rise in the UK since the mid-eighties, with a particular increase from the mid-ninetiea to 2011. Ticket prices are rising but that doesnt seem to be affecting attendance levels either. It looks like attandance was peaking around 2001ish and is now still we above where attendance figures were in the nineties. In these days of superfast home fibre broadband, if downloading was a huge issue for the industry, wouldn we see that reflected inthe attendance stats in someway? Are the lower paid workers in the cinema chains being affected? Hard to say, but cinema turnover has increased and seems to be at an all time high in recent years. Thinking interms of box office, as opposed to attendance, and it seems that each year opening weekend records are bein broken on a regular basis. Thinking of 2012 alone weve had a record breaking Bond movie becomin the highest grossing film in the UK. We had Hunger Games breaking records, Avengers, and didn Ted manage to break some kind of R rated box office record? Again, thinking in attendance, turnover and economy terms, it appears cinema is thriving. Admittdly thats based on this link, and a second I looked at that was US domestic based - I think the site was called The Numbers, if anyone wants to look, but I may look a little more tomorrow of people have any interest.

And sorry to say, but I live in a market town in Leicestershire that has now closed down the cinema because of low attendances - so I am seeing a rather different story. Which means that I now have to travel to Leicester to go to the cinema, which for a day out now rests at about �20 per person rather than a fiver. And yet I still go, because seeing it on the big screen is the best way you can watch a film.

I just do not get how you (collective you) think it is right to download. It is not yours to take, so bloody well pay for it. I don't care if you buy the DVDs, Blu-Rays etc - you are still watching/listening to something that you have not paid for.

EDIT: In answering you other question about downloading of TV shows, again I am against it - just buy the DVD or wait for the UK to pick it up. I've waited for Person Of Interest on Channel 5 - as Gary Barlow once sang, "Have a little patience."

EDIT: 2nd edit was coz I don't know Take That songs verbatim

< Message edited by Ref -- 24/1/2013 11:32:16 PM >

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Post #: 263

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 11:23:27 PM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: The2ndRing

I'll be honest I haven't looked back at the other 9 pages of this thread. However when I went to see Titanic 3D at a local Cinema, I paid for 4 adults and 1 child, and some sweets/popcorn (not loads of stuff) and it came to the best part of �100. It's been said thousands of times before, but if they want to combat piracy, stop making it so fucking expensive to go to the cinema. ARGH!

Out of curiosity, was this a chain cinema or an independent?

My sister in law and her family go quite a lot to Cineworld and always complain of the cost, even taking advantage of early cheap screenings it still sets them back around 30 quid, minus food and drinks. They've emailed Cineworld a few times with the auggestion of a 'Family Unlimited Card', pay 50 quid a month for a family of four or whatever, something comparable to the standard Unlimited Card. I dont think it's a bad idea myself. I never find the cost of the cinema an issue, primarily because of the Unlimited Card. Also, does a family of three/four/five consider a trip to the cinema to be a 'day out'? Cos there aren't many 'days out' you can do with a family that will be as comparably cheap with food and drinks. Try taking a family of four to the footie foe less than 100 quid. Nay chance.

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Post #: 264

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 24/1/2013 11:36:35 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1617
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

I dont get it about buying food and drink at the cinema.Just eat before you go out.

(in reply to porntrooper)

Post #: 265

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 25/1/2013 9:15:06 AM

Dannybohy

Posts: 935
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

I dont get it about buying food and drink at the cinema.Just eat before you go out.

I bet your loads of fun on a hot date at the cinema!. Anyway don't be selfish ! when I'm in training I need to eat every two hours at least! what am I supposed to do in a three hour movie!!
Bring back intermissions and icecream!!

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Post #: 266

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 25/1/2013 9:19:25 AM

Dannybohy

Posts: 935
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

quote:

ORIGINAL: The2ndRing

I'll be honest I haven't looked back at the other 9 pages of this thread. However when I went to see Titanic 3D at a local Cinema, I paid for 4 adults and 1 child, and some sweets/popcorn (not loads of stuff) and it came to the best part of �100. It's been said thousands of times before, but if they want to combat piracy, stop making it so fucking expensive to go to the cinema. ARGH!

Out of curiosity, was this a chain cinema or an independent?

My sister in law and her family go quite a lot to Cineworld and always complain of the cost, even taking advantage of early cheap screenings it still sets them back around 30 quid, minus food and drinks. They've emailed Cineworld a few times with the auggestion of a 'Family Unlimited Card', pay 50 quid a month for a family of four or whatever, something comparable to the standard Unlimited Card. I dont think it's a bad idea myself. I never find the cost of the cinema an issue, primarily because of the Unlimited Card. Also, does a family of three/four/five consider a trip to the cinema to be a 'day out'? Cos there aren't many 'days out' you can do with a family that will be as comparably cheap with food and drinks. Try taking a family of four to the footie foe less than 100 quid. Nay chance.

< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 25/1/2013 9:22:30 AM >

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Post #: 267

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 25/1/2013 10:05:15 AM

porntrooper

Posts: 2497
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper

quote:

ORIGINAL: The2ndRing

I'll be honest I haven't looked back at the other 9 pages of this thread. However when I went to see Titanic 3D at a local Cinema, I paid for 4 adults and 1 child, and some sweets/popcorn (not loads of stuff) and it came to the best part of �100. It's been said thousands of times before, but if they want to combat piracy, stop making it so fucking expensive to go to the cinema. ARGH!

Out of curiosity, was this a chain cinema or an independent?

My sister in law and her family go quite a lot to Cineworld and always complain of the cost, even taking advantage of early cheap screenings it still sets them back around 30 quid, minus food and drinks. They've emailed Cineworld a few times with the auggestion of a 'Family Unlimited Card', pay 50 quid a month for a family of four or whatever, something comparable to the standard Unlimited Card. I dont think it's a bad idea myself. I never find the cost of the cinema an issue, primarily because of the Unlimited Card. Also, does a family of three/four/five consider a trip to the cinema to be a 'day out'? Cos there aren't many 'days out' you can do with a family that will be as comparably cheap with food and drinks. Try taking a family of four to the footie foe less than 100 quid. Nay chance.

You'll have to enlighten me. WHat have I said that is so facepalm worthy?

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Post #: 268

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 25/1/2013 12:19:41 PM

SwozTheRevenge

Posts: 221
Joined: 22/10/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref
I don't care if you buy the DVDs, Blu-Rays etc - you are still watching/listening to something that you have not paid for.

I borrowed Xanadu off a friend. I watched it, gave it back. I didn't rent it from my friend and I don't think I'll be buying it.

LOCK ME UP.

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Post #: 269

RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 25/1/2013 12:45:28 PM

Dannybohy

Posts: 935
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ref
I don't care if you buy the DVDs, Blu-Rays etc - you are still watching/listening to something that you have not paid for.

I borrowed Xanadu off a friend. I watched it, gave it back. I didn't rent it from my friend and I don't think I'll be buying it.

LOCK ME UP.

I hope you washed your hands afterwards!. I've just been offered to go around to filthy friends house to watch Silver Linings Playbook! I passed, not because I am morally incorruptible, because it sounds like movie which is a deliberate attempt to garner awards without the actual content to justify it and its something I can a happily watch one day on Lovefilm or Netflix.

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Post #: 270