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RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 2:08:05 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron
Ah ok. I usually associate "screeners" with the 'in the cinema with a video camera' type of torrent which I tend to avoid.


That's okay - "bums inhaling vomit" gives you an out.


(Off but on topic, I haven't seen one of those filmed-with-a-vid-camera pirates for about 15 years - are they extinct now???)


Nah cam rips are still prevalent. A friend of mine downloads a shit load of them, he just doesn't care that he's watching a substandard version of the film. The last cam rip I watched was Spider-Man and it was so bad I vowed never again and I've stuck to that.

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Post #: 31
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 2:09:02 PM   
Russ Whitfield

 

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012
My guess would be these perfect copies are the "for your consideration" ones?

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Post #: 32
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 2:22:24 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russ Whitfield

My guess would be these perfect copies are the "for your consideration" ones?


No, perfect copies are the ones ripped directly from the official dvd/blu-rays. Of these there are variations of course, depending on your bandwidth and hdd space you can get basic compressed quality versions (around 700mb or so) which look and sound ok right up to full quality versions (in the case of blu-rips around 40gb) which will come with all the extras and commentaries if you want. Most people these days opt for something inbetween, usually files around 3-5gb or so depending on where they're from and what software was used in the compression to maintain the quality without using a shitload of bandwidth or hdd space. Or something.

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Post #: 33
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 2:31:27 PM   
Nexus Wookie


Posts: 2326
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Russ Whitfield

My guess would be these perfect copies are the "for your consideration" ones?


No, perfect copies are the ones ripped directly from the official dvd/blu-rays. Of these there are variations of course, depending on your bandwidth and hdd space you can get basic compressed quality versions (around 700mb or so) which look and sound ok right up to full quality versions (in the case of blu-rips around 40gb) which will come with all the extras and commentaries if you want. Most people these days opt for something inbetween, usually files around 3-5gb or so depending on where they're from and what software was used in the compression to maintain the quality without using a shitload of bandwidth or hdd space. Or something.


Yes. But the 'perfect' copies i'm referring to had not even been released on DVD yet! Maybe a good few months before.

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Post #: 34
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 2:32:29 PM   
beckybookworm


Posts: 1
Joined: 28/5/2012
From: somewhere in sunny cornwall
if piracy is killing movies...why are movies like the avengers taking so much money at the box office...? every time i go to my local cinema its packed. I think with mobile phone networks like orange promoting a 2 for 1 offer has really helped to put butts into seats. I don't think you can beat seeing the movie as it was intended on the big screen...like this week for example, my friends and I are going to go and watch two movies on wednesday and I'm going tomorrow as well with my BF to see Dark shadows...

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Post #: 35
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 2:33:00 PM   
Russ Whitfield

 

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012
EDITED - Same question as Nexus Wookie

< Message edited by Russ Whitfield -- 28/5/2012 2:34:38 PM >


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Post #: 36
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 2:54:03 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Russ Whitfield

My guess would be these perfect copies are the "for your consideration" ones?


No, perfect copies are the ones ripped directly from the official dvd/blu-rays. Of these there are variations of course, depending on your bandwidth and hdd space you can get basic compressed quality versions (around 700mb or so) which look and sound ok right up to full quality versions (in the case of blu-rips around 40gb) which will come with all the extras and commentaries if you want. Most people these days opt for something inbetween, usually files around 3-5gb or so depending on where they're from and what software was used in the compression to maintain the quality without using a shitload of bandwidth or hdd space. Or something.


Yes. But the 'perfect' copies i'm referring to had not even been released on DVD yet! Maybe a good few months before.


Sometimes you can get an official copy on torrent sites up to a month or more before they hit the shops, especially if they've been released in some other country first. Other than that then the 'FYC' copies are usually the next best thing, unless a copy has been leaked from the studio lab etc.

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Post #: 37
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 2:58:47 PM   
Nexus Wookie


Posts: 2326
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity
Yeah, I mean it could come from any three of the sources you've mentioned. But I think A History of Violence pirate copy which I watched may have been a lab leak. I'm not certain, but I just have this niggling feeling!

Also, the first time thanks to you guys, that i've even heard about FYC! I mean, how the heck does that work? A studio posts you a copy and says 'see what you think' ?

< Message edited by Nexus Wookie -- 28/5/2012 3:02:52 PM >


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Post #: 38
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 3:05:23 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

Yeah, I mean it could come from any three of the sources you've mentioned. But I think A History of Violence pirate copy which I watched may have been a lab leak. I'm not certain, but I just have this niggling feeling!

Also, the first time thanks to you guys, that i've even heard about FYC! I mean, how the heck does that work? A studio posts you a copy and says 'see what you think' ?


Academy Award screeners innit. Not all voting members can be expected to have seen all the films they're voting for at the cinema.

November-January can be a particularly fruitful period for pirates.

_____________________________

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Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

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Post #: 39
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 3:08:21 PM   
Nexus Wookie


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Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity
Oh...

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Post #: 40
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 3:10:50 PM   
Nexus Wookie


Posts: 2326
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity
Cheers for that!

< Message edited by Nexus Wookie -- 28/5/2012 3:11:49 PM >


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Post #: 41
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 6:42:20 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

Also, the first time thanks to you guys, that i've even heard about FYC! I mean, how the heck does that work? A studio posts you a copy and says 'see what you think' ?


Academy Award screeners innit. Not all voting members can be expected to have seen all the films they're voting for at the cinema.

November-January can be a particularly fruitful period for pirates.


I was on FYC lists for the first time last year and it was absolutely amazing. Every day was like Christmas, especially given the fact that most of the films sent out weren't actually getting a UK release until January/February time over here.

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 42
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 6:46:23 PM   
Nexus Wookie


Posts: 2326
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

Also, the first time thanks to you guys, that i've even heard about FYC! I mean, how the heck does that work? A studio posts you a copy and says 'see what you think' ?


Academy Award screeners innit. Not all voting members can be expected to have seen all the films they're voting for at the cinema.

November-January can be a particularly fruitful period for pirates.


I was on FYC lists for the first time last year and it was absolutely amazing. Every day was like Christmas, especially given the fact that most of the films sent out weren't actually getting a UK release until January/February time over here.


You lucky sod!

How did you get on the list?

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Post #: 43
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 6:55:05 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3217
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester
Adam is an online film journalist of some sort, Nexus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

One should be looking at attendance figures as opposed to box office - the price of seeing a film both here and abroad has nearly tripled in the last decade or so.

I have no doubt that audience numbers are falling - sold out showings are more and more becoming a thing of the past now. Even Avatar in 3D was not completely 100% sold out on opening day in any of the 'plexes local to me. Clock back to when I was working at a Showcase in the mid 90s and every showing of Independence Day was sold out for most of the opening week.



Wow. That's actually kind of depressing.


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Post #: 44
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 6:58:49 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5067
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

Also, the first time thanks to you guys, that i've even heard about FYC! I mean, how the heck does that work? A studio posts you a copy and says 'see what you think' ?


Academy Award screeners innit. Not all voting members can be expected to have seen all the films they're voting for at the cinema.

November-January can be a particularly fruitful period for pirates.


I was on FYC lists for the first time last year and it was absolutely amazing. Every day was like Christmas, especially given the fact that most of the films sent out weren't actually getting a UK release until January/February time over here.


Did that not give you a bit of a dilemma though? On the one hand, I wouldn't be able to resist watching them - especially if it was something I'd been particular looking forward too - but then afterward I'd probably feel I'd missed out by not seeing it on the big screen. Hmm.

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Post #: 45
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 7:02:05 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

Also, the first time thanks to you guys, that i've even heard about FYC! I mean, how the heck does that work? A studio posts you a copy and says 'see what you think' ?


Academy Award screeners innit. Not all voting members can be expected to have seen all the films they're voting for at the cinema.

November-January can be a particularly fruitful period for pirates.


I was on FYC lists for the first time last year and it was absolutely amazing. Every day was like Christmas, especially given the fact that most of the films sent out weren't actually getting a UK release until January/February time over here.


I'd say this was a humblebrag, but it's not that humble...


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Post #: 46
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 7:10:44 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

I was on FYC lists for the first time last year and it was absolutely amazing. Every day was like Christmas, especially given the fact that most of the films sent out weren't actually getting a UK release until January/February time over here.


So do I have you to thank for all those free downloads?

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

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Post #: 47
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 7:24:55 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1160
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

One should be looking at attendance figures as opposed to box office - the price of seeing a film both here and abroad has nearly tripled in the last decade or so.



Which is why I posted the adjusted worldwide figures which attempt to take this into account.

It can only be an approximation as so many factors are involved. Gone with the Wind is by all accounts I have seen the most successful film of all time with one estimate of its adjusted box office at over $5 billion.

But as noted box office only tells part of the story. When you factor in home video sales, TV broadcast sales, and other distribution methods outside the theatrical window (which by and large go unreported) it is hard to get a real picture of how much money a movie brought in. When you factor in Hollywood accounting practises it gets ever more opaque.

Audiences in all probably are dwindling, but piracy probably plays a far smaller part than we are invited to believe. From anecdotal evidence and personal experience I'd wager that declining presentation standards, spiralling prices and the increase of unacceptable audience behaviour has at least as much to do with it.

It is a vicious cycle. As audiences decrease the theatres have to increase prices and cut costs to maintain profitability, which in turn leads to lower standards and a poorer experience. So with disposable cash at a premium the audience stays away, opting to use it elsewhere. And around it goes.

This, coupled with what I'm led to believe are ridiculous demands from the distributors, seems to be setting mainstream theatrical cinema distribution on a path towards self inflicted extinction. Which would be an incredibly sad thing to see.

Something needs to be done to arrest this, but with things as they are it seems unlikely.

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Post #: 48
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 8:04:00 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

Also, the first time thanks to you guys, that i've even heard about FYC! I mean, how the heck does that work? A studio posts you a copy and says 'see what you think' ?


Academy Award screeners innit. Not all voting members can be expected to have seen all the films they're voting for at the cinema.

November-January can be a particularly fruitful period for pirates.


I was on FYC lists for the first time last year and it was absolutely amazing. Every day was like Christmas, especially given the fact that most of the films sent out weren't actually getting a UK release until January/February time over here.


Did that not give you a bit of a dilemma though? On the one hand, I wouldn't be able to resist watching them - especially if it was something I'd been particular looking forward too - but then afterward I'd probably feel I'd missed out by not seeing it on the big screen. Hmm.


It did with one or two films, but with the exception of them (The Artist/Hugo) I'd seen most of the big releases at the London Film Festival. I chose to wait on those. But yeah, the predicament is certainly there, and I face the very real possibility of having a screener of The Master (my most anticipated of 2012) 3 months before the UK release date in my hands this winter.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 28/5/2012 8:14:27 PM >

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Post #: 49
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 28/5/2012 8:13:22 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

I was on FYC lists for the first time last year and it was absolutely amazing. Every day was like Christmas, especially given the fact that most of the films sent out weren't actually getting a UK release until January/February time over here.


So do I have you to thank for all those free downloads?


Nah, as you know I'm not very supportive of the whole pirate movement. I couldn't give a damn about Hollywood's lost revenue, but I do resent the fact that because of piracy I have to hand my mobile phone/laptop in before I go in to certain advance screenings, which is a right pain in the arse.

(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 50
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 29/5/2012 2:10:19 PM   
maffew


Posts: 2811
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: chester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Russ Whitfield

My guess would be these perfect copies are the "for your consideration" ones?


No, perfect copies are the ones ripped directly from the official dvd/blu-rays. Of these there are variations of course, depending on your bandwidth and hdd space you can get basic compressed quality versions (around 700mb or so) which look and sound ok right up to full quality versions (in the case of blu-rips around 40gb) which will come with all the extras and commentaries if you want. Most people these days opt for something inbetween, usually files around 3-5gb or so depending on where they're from and what software was used in the compression to maintain the quality without using a shitload of bandwidth or hdd space. Or something.


Yes. But the 'perfect' copies i'm referring to had not even been released on DVD yet! Maybe a good few months before.


The Raid, as we all know, and have no doubt seen is JUST in cinemas, but you can watch a DVDrip of it online - I'm not sure how that happened, I thought it had a simultaneous worldwide release.. I know it was screened a year or so ago, but it's amazing that it's out there already.

I've done a fair amount of dabbling with watching movies online. It was when I worked in a cinema and ironically could watch all the films I wanted for free! I was just so hacked off with going into work to watch a film after a 50 hour week that I looked online to see if there were any movies out there, and its when NinjaVideo was in its prime, and I could watch all the releases from the comfort of my home in DVD quality, without spending my days off at work.. I told myself I wouldnt be paying for them anyway so where's the harm? Bit of a grey area maybe.. TV shows I don't even consider piracy. I watched homeland recently on *insert website here* without an inkling of guilt. On a side note actually, there's another thing that I've noticed recently - "casual pirates" is the phrase i've coined.. it's people who take part in pirate activity without realising it.. for example, i was talking to a musician friend of mine, I asked if they download music.. they said 'no no, i'd never do that!' 'oh' I said 'would you take music off someones hard drive?' 'oh yeah - i do that all the time, my entire itunesis just all my mates music off his hard drive' well thats THE EXACT SAME THING! People who maybe wouldn't download a film would gladly stick a bunch of DVDrips on their hard drive off a mate.. I know I have, I've done it with music as well in the past.. My band got signed a few months ago and we're bringing an album out later this year.. if it's a success I don't doubt it'll climb to top of the torrent sites before it even reaches the itunes chart - piracy is clearly going to affect my career, but I'm not bitter - the people who steal our album will no doubt come to the live shows, it's a bit different - you can't really pirate a gig.. I just thought it was interesting that people don't seem to notice what they're doing.. you don't have to download a film to be a pirate..


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Post #: 51
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 29/5/2012 8:50:03 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2351
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
Its easy to think that piracy doesnt matter a jot given the huge takings of the likes of Avengers Assemble and Avatar,but its important to remember that its the lower budget films (especially the independant sector) which dont get a wide release that are really affected by piracy and struggle to make their money back.

And lets not forget the big budget films like John Carter and Green Lantern that '' underperformed '' on their release and will struggle to make their money back.Those who actually downloaded/stole those films,enjoyed them,and hope for sequels are the very ones who contribute to the reasons why those sequels will never happen.



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Post #: 52
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 29/5/2012 10:32:14 PM   
Nexus Wookie


Posts: 2326
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity
quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Its easy to think that piracy doesnt matter a jot given the huge takings of the likes of Avengers Assemble and Avatar,but its important to remember that its the lower budget films (especially the independant sector) which dont get a wide release that are really affected by piracy and struggle to make their money back.

And lets not forget the big budget films like John Carter and Green Lantern that '' underperformed '' on their release and will struggle to make their money back.Those who actually downloaded/stole those films,enjoyed them,and hope for sequels are the very ones who contribute to the reasons why those sequels will never happen.




I agree. But the reason why I think Green Lantern struggled was not down to piracy, but the fact it is just plain shit!

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Post #: 53
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 29/5/2012 11:54:03 PM   
paul_ie86


Posts: 11422
Joined: 4/1/2007
From: Chelsea Hotel #2

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

Also, the first time thanks to you guys, that i've even heard about FYC! I mean, how the heck does that work? A studio posts you a copy and says 'see what you think' ?


Academy Award screeners innit. Not all voting members can be expected to have seen all the films they're voting for at the cinema.

November-January can be a particularly fruitful period for pirates.


I was on FYC lists for the first time last year and it was absolutely amazing. Every day was like Christmas, especially given the fact that most of the films sent out weren't actually getting a UK release until January/February time over here.


Did that not give you a bit of a dilemma though? On the one hand, I wouldn't be able to resist watching them - especially if it was something I'd been particular looking forward too - but then afterward I'd probably feel I'd missed out by not seeing it on the big screen. Hmm.


It did with one or two films, but with the exception of them (The Artist/Hugo) I'd seen most of the big releases at the London Film Festival. I chose to wait on those. But yeah, the predicament is certainly there, and I face the very real possibility of having a screener of The Master (my most anticipated of 2012) 3 months before the UK release date in my hands this winter.


"Oh no, I get to see a film I really want to see earlier than I would usually get too. How awful."

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Post #: 54
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 30/5/2012 12:10:25 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
I do resent the fact that because of piracy I have to hand my mobile phone/laptop in before I go in to certain advance screenings


Why do you resent it? What would you do with the phone/laptop during the screening?


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Post #: 55
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 30/5/2012 11:35:52 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1160
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: maffew

...On a side note actually, there's another thing that I've noticed recently - "casual pirates" is the phrase i've coined.. it's people who take part in pirate activity without realising it.. for example, i was talking to a musician friend of mine, I asked if they download music.. they said 'no no, i'd never do that!' 'oh' I said 'would you take music off someones hard drive?' 'oh yeah - i do that all the time, my entire itunesis just all my mates music off his hard drive' well thats THE EXACT SAME THING! People who maybe wouldn't download a film would gladly stick a bunch of DVDrips on their hard drive off a mate.. I know I have, I've done it with music as well in the past.. My band got signed a few months ago and we're bringing an album out later this year.. if it's a success I don't doubt it'll climb to top of the torrent sites before it even reaches the itunes chart - piracy is clearly going to affect my career, but I'm not bitter - the people who steal our album will no doubt come to the live shows, it's a bit different - you can't really pirate a gig.. I just thought it was interesting that people don't seem to notice what they're doing.. you don't have to download a film to be a pirate..



That is a real issue, and one where the law is far behind the times.

If we take the definition of piracy at its broadest: that is any unlawful use of copyright material, I'm sure there is not a person on this board who isn't guilty. If I were to categorise the levels of culpability I'd probably have 4, albeit with plenty of room for overlap among them.

First, and with the lowest level of culpability is what I'd probably class as innocent piracy. Every time you rip a CD you have bought to an mp3 player, every time you back up a DVD you own to a media centre, every time you archive a broadcast (be it on tape, hard drive or DVD) for purposes other than "time shifting" you breach copyright. In the UK there is no fair use defence. These are things which the rights holders have to be pragmatic about. They received payment and trying to police the issue would cost far more than any hypothetical loss they could have made. Hopefully the oft mooted but as yet still as far away as ever shake up of UK copyright law will remove this by introducing a fair use defence in the future.

The second is the one maffew talked about, and for want of anything better I'll continue to call it casual piracy. This is when you share copies of music or movies between friends or where you rip something you have bough and then sell or give away the original. Watching copyright material on Youtube etc. probably falls into this category. The mix-tape of my youth would probably also fall into this category.

Third I would class as an overt pirate. These are the people who download from illicit sources or partake in pirate DVDs and other media. They may also rent or borrow media and make a copy for themselves. They may or may not share these files online. These are the people, by and large, the advertising campaigns (including those annoying, unskippable adverts on DVDs which pirates will remove and probably never watch) refer to. They are more culpable than the first two as they are more proactive and almost certainly aware that what they are doing is illegal: with the first two it may be reasonable for them to be unaware what they are doing is against the law. Ignorance is not a defence, but it does mitigate culpability somewhat.

Finally, and at the most culpable level, I'd class as the organised pirate. They may or may not be commercially motivated. In the past the big gangs sold their bootlegs primarily for commercial gain, but now with the arrival of large scale online piracy it is just as likely to be based on ideology. These are the groups (and they often will be groups, either tightly or loosely affiliated) who the authorities have the best chance of tackling. Included in this are those who run the warez sites, the file sharing sites, the torrent indexing sites and assorted fora related to the "scene".

Copyright remains a largely civil offence. Criminal charges can be brought but it is very unlikely a casual pirate or even a reasonably overt one would ever face them: civil claims are rare enough. When The Pirate Bay was blocked recently it was because of a civil injunction not a criminal investigation. Not that it has done much good. The site is still up and available if you spend 5 minutes looking up how to find it.

Which is the real dilemma for those trying to control the issue. It is like an immense Hydra; cut off one head and more grow to take their place. The organised groups are far more adaptable than the authorities and are often based in places where they cannot be reached by the IP holders. That is without considering the unorganised hoards who help propagate the issue over the relative anonymity of the internet.

It is an unwinnable scenario. All that can be done by the IP holders is to make the pirate redundant somehow; much as how the file sharers have all but done with the pirate DVD vendors. But in an industry where IP is often the most valuable asset the company holds, building a model which essentially opens it up without devaluing it is a very tall task.

After all, these are people who refuse to pay the 6 or so it costs to get a Lovefilm subscription.


(in reply to maffew)
Post #: 56
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 30/5/2012 11:46:01 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
I do resent the fact that because of piracy I have to hand my mobile phone/laptop in before I go in to certain advance screenings


Why do you resent it? What would you do with the phone/laptop during the screening?



I don't like my items being in the care of strangers, thats all. I don't think thats particularly unusual either, I mean, how would you feel about having to leave your personal belongings with a stranger when heading in to work? And all because some scummy person can't be bothered to pay for their movies?

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 30/5/2012 11:48:55 AM >

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 57
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 30/5/2012 11:47:55 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: paul_ie86


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie

Also, the first time thanks to you guys, that i've even heard about FYC! I mean, how the heck does that work? A studio posts you a copy and says 'see what you think' ?


Academy Award screeners innit. Not all voting members can be expected to have seen all the films they're voting for at the cinema.

November-January can be a particularly fruitful period for pirates.


I was on FYC lists for the first time last year and it was absolutely amazing. Every day was like Christmas, especially given the fact that most of the films sent out weren't actually getting a UK release until January/February time over here.


Did that not give you a bit of a dilemma though? On the one hand, I wouldn't be able to resist watching them - especially if it was something I'd been particular looking forward too - but then afterward I'd probably feel I'd missed out by not seeing it on the big screen. Hmm.


It did with one or two films, but with the exception of them (The Artist/Hugo) I'd seen most of the big releases at the London Film Festival. I chose to wait on those. But yeah, the predicament is certainly there, and I face the very real possibility of having a screener of The Master (my most anticipated of 2012) 3 months before the UK release date in my hands this winter.


"Oh no, I get to see a film I really want to see earlier than I would usually get too. How awful."


Thats really not what I was saying. I don't want to watch The Master on DVD on my television with "THE PROPERTY OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN" running along the bottom every 18 minutes. The temptation to do so will be there tho, given the films mooted February release date.

(in reply to paul_ie86)
Post #: 58
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 30/5/2012 1:00:06 PM   
maffew


Posts: 2811
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: chester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978


quote:

ORIGINAL: maffew

...On a side note actually, there's another thing that I've noticed recently - "casual pirates" is the phrase i've coined.. it's people who take part in pirate activity without realising it.. for example, i was talking to a musician friend of mine, I asked if they download music.. they said 'no no, i'd never do that!' 'oh' I said 'would you take music off someones hard drive?' 'oh yeah - i do that all the time, my entire itunesis just all my mates music off his hard drive' well thats THE EXACT SAME THING! People who maybe wouldn't download a film would gladly stick a bunch of DVDrips on their hard drive off a mate.. I know I have, I've done it with music as well in the past.. My band got signed a few months ago and we're bringing an album out later this year.. if it's a success I don't doubt it'll climb to top of the torrent sites before it even reaches the itunes chart - piracy is clearly going to affect my career, but I'm not bitter - the people who steal our album will no doubt come to the live shows, it's a bit different - you can't really pirate a gig.. I just thought it was interesting that people don't seem to notice what they're doing.. you don't have to download a film to be a pirate..

M

That is a real issue, and one where the law is far behind the times.

If we take the definition of piracy at its broadest: that is any unlawful use of copyright material, I'm sure there is not a person on this board who isn't guilty. If I were to categorise the levels of culpability I'd probably have 4, albeit with plenty of room for overlap among them.

First, and with the lowest level of culpability is what I'd probably class as innocent piracy. Every time you rip a CD you have bought to an mp3 player, every time you back up a DVD you own to a media centre, every time you archive a broadcast (be it on tape, hard drive or DVD) for purposes other than "time shifting" you breach copyright. In the UK there is no fair use defence. These are things which the rights holders have to be pragmatic about. They received payment and trying to police the issue would cost far more than any hypothetical loss they could have made. Hopefully the oft mooted but as yet still as far away as ever shake up of UK copyright law will remove this by introducing a fair use defence in the future.

The second is the one maffew talked about, and for want of anything better I'll continue to call it casual piracy. This is when you share copies of music or movies between friends or where you rip something you have bough and then sell or give away the original. Watching copyright material on Youtube etc. probably falls into this category. The mix-tape of my youth would probably also fall into this category.

Third I would class as an overt pirate. These are the people who download from illicit sources or partake in pirate DVDs and other media. They may also rent or borrow media and make a copy for themselves. They may or may not share these files online. These are the people, by and large, the advertising campaigns (including those annoying, unskippable adverts on DVDs which pirates will remove and probably never watch) refer to. They are more culpable than the first two as they are more proactive and almost certainly aware that what they are doing is illegal: with the first two it may be reasonable for them to be unaware what they are doing is against the law. Ignorance is not a defence, but it does mitigate culpability somewhat.

Finally, and at the most culpable level, I'd class as the organised pirate. They may or may not be commercially motivated. In the past the big gangs sold their bootlegs primarily for commercial gain, but now with the arrival of large scale online piracy it is just as likely to be based on ideology. These are the groups (and they often will be groups, either tightly or loosely affiliated) who the authorities have the best chance of tackling. Included in this are those who run the warez sites, the file sharing sites, the torrent indexing sites and assorted fora related to the "scene".

Copyright remains a largely civil offence. Criminal charges can be brought but it is very unlikely a casual pirate or even a reasonably overt one would ever face them: civil claims are rare enough. When The Pirate Bay was blocked recently it was because of a civil injunction not a criminal investigation. Not that it has done much good. The site is still up and available if you spend 5 minutes looking up how to find it.

Which is the real dilemma for those trying to control the issue. It is like an immense Hydra; cut off one head and more grow to take their place. The organised groups are far more adaptable than the authorities and are often based in places where they cannot be reached by the IP holders. That is without considering the unorganised hoards who help propagate the issue over the relative anonymity of the internet.

It is an unwinnable scenario. All that can be done by the IP holders is to make the pirate redundant somehow; much as how the file sharers have all but done with the pirate DVD vendors. But in an industry where IP is often the most valuable asset the company holds, building a model which essentially opens it up without devaluing it is a very tall task.

After all, these are people who refuse to pay the 6 or so it costs to get a Lovefilm subscription.




Wow... You sir, are excellent!!


_____________________________

"Now i don't know much about security lighting, but i'm guessing they'll be using 180-degree dispersing halogens with motion sensors"

(in reply to Dpp1978)
Post #: 59
RE: is piracy REALLY killing the film industry? - 30/5/2012 1:05:10 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: maffew


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Russ Whitfield

My guess would be these perfect copies are the "for your consideration" ones?


No, perfect copies are the ones ripped directly from the official dvd/blu-rays. Of these there are variations of course, depending on your bandwidth and hdd space you can get basic compressed quality versions (around 700mb or so) which look and sound ok right up to full quality versions (in the case of blu-rips around 40gb) which will come with all the extras and commentaries if you want. Most people these days opt for something inbetween, usually files around 3-5gb or so depending on where they're from and what software was used in the compression to maintain the quality without using a shitload of bandwidth or hdd space. Or something.


Yes. But the 'perfect' copies i'm referring to had not even been released on DVD yet! Maybe a good few months before.


The Raid, as we all know, and have no doubt seen is JUST in cinemas, but you can watch a DVDrip of it online - I'm not sure how that happened, I thought it had a simultaneous worldwide release.. I know it was screened a year or so ago, but it's amazing that it's out there already.




In this country maybe but it's been out in other parts of the world since March and has been doing the festival circuit since September last year. I actually watched the end of a BR rip of it at a friends house last night. He had to download English subtitles for it seperately and had to put up with them being overlayed over the imbedded Korean subs but otherwise it was flawless 720p. I've had a quick look online and to my knowledge it hasn't received an R3 release yet so god knows where it came from.

Personally I have no qualms in downloading a screener of a film I've already paid to watch at the cinema while I await a DVD release. I downloaded a screener for Muppets for example but I'd already paid for myself and my daughter to watch it twice so the morality didn't and still doesn't bother me at all. I also don't give a damn about TV, I'll happily download TV shows at US speed or even TV shows that have been out for a while and are available on DVD for purchase. Cam Rips are a complete no no for me though.

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

(in reply to maffew)
Post #: 60
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