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RE: Scottish independence debate

 
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RE: Scottish independence debate - 18/2/2014 12:50:01 PM   
MrsFinkelstein


Posts: 174
Joined: 29/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Someone living here for a couple of years should no be deciding, IMO, the permanent future of an entire country - not for something as important as an attempt to change the identity of the people who do actually live here. Transients are fine for general elections - they are short term, so are the voter so it may cover the period they are here. But they shouldn't IMO be anywhere near this vote.

The whole thing became a joke when they didn't have any turnout requirement anyway - the tiny number of people who could change our future is terrifying.


It's this that is the most terrifying for me actually, we could have the monumentous change happen even if only a tiny number of people actually turn out to vote.

But then if people aren't motivated to vote for an issue like this, then they are unlikely to be motivated to vote for anything except ruddy XF or IAC.

I've tended to avoid talking about this issue amongst friends and online as I got fed up being called a fearty by certain pro-independents. Though we have been discussing more now at work as it's getting closer. I haven't yet spoken to anyone recently who's 'for it'.

But that maybe because the most vocal pro-independent I knew blocked me on FB after I expressed some reservations about how we would pay for everything, how I would like to know what currency we would use, what would we do when the North sea Oil ran out.

Quite pleased as I no longer have to put up with badly quoted Burns being used as a response.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 151
RE: Scottish independence debate - 18/2/2014 1:24:55 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54439
Joined: 1/10/2005
The idea that the practicalities of funding and the economy are less important than this semantic twist making us a colony (with us providing a significantly high proportion of senior govt ministers over the years etc) just seems weird to me. We've all got family members who rely on pensions eg - shouldn't they sensibly be worried about them?

Cuting off national noses to spite our face

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to MrsFinkelstein)
Post #: 152
RE: Scottish independence debate - 18/2/2014 1:40:46 PM   
MrsFinkelstein


Posts: 174
Joined: 29/2/2012
It's the insinuation that I'm somehow not proud to be Scottish if I expressed reservations that really pissed me off.

I thought the pro-independence white paper sounded wonderful, it really did sound like the type of country I would want to live in, yet there was no concrete measures/ideas to pay for it all. While I would tolerate paying a bit more in taxes to fund it, I don't want to rook myself, my family or my children in order to fund it.

We can barely pay for the free prescriptions (that really pisses me off, I work in the NHS and that 50million or so it costs would be very well spent on actual patient care). And the council tax freeze honestly worries me. When it stops, and it will, my worry will be that it goes up hugely to cover the deficit. I would rather my council tax had risen slightly each year and services were maintained.

My husband works for a local council and the cuts they are having to make is massive, with more to come next year, and there is a good chance he might lose his job in the next round of cuts. I'm being completely selfish I know, but I would like some concrete financial plans in place before I would vote yes.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 153
RE: Scottish independence debate - 18/2/2014 2:49:26 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 4985
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
It all sounds very complex and confusing this independence lark. I'm glad I couldn't give two fucks about it (mind, I know a few jocks and neither could they).

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(in reply to MrsFinkelstein)
Post #: 154
RE: Scottish independence debate - 18/2/2014 2:53:34 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54439
Joined: 1/10/2005
I agree completely on council tax - it's a short-sighted short-term policy. Everyone must see how badly services have reduced -even stuff like potholes have become a nightmare over the last few years with only a few quick fixes at financial year-end in March.

Education as well - headline on fees but general support for kids has disappeared so they're racking up bigger debts. And it'll get worse when they can't charge England, no matter they keep saying everyone else is wrong but them. But, as usual, all those lawyer chaps are wrong, not the blusterers in shiny suits taking us on the road to ruin.

The white paper was lovely fantasy land - but with even fewer costings than the SNPs very holey manifesto.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to MrsFinkelstein)
Post #: 155
RE: Scottish independence debate - 27/2/2014 2:50:23 PM   
DJ Satan


Posts: 9023
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: White Vaart Lane


_____________________________

Don't try to tell me that some power can corrupt a person
You hadn't had enough to know what it's like
You're only angry cause you wish you were in my position
Now nod your head cause you know that I'm right..alright!

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 156
RE: Scottish independence debate - 27/2/2014 4:55:14 PM   
MrsFinkelstein


Posts: 174
Joined: 29/2/2012
But I thought we wouldn't be using those?? FFS, I've just told my trader to invest it all in groats!!!!

But hey, it's all going to wine and roses up here anyway, what with the fact we won't have any debt at all to pay, and with all the oil and gas money we'll all be getting as Scottish citizens just like Norway.

I've ordered up my hot tub for the back door, and have started stock piling up the margarita mix. Heard on the news at lunch time something about Standard Life, they're investing billions up here now right???

(in reply to DJ Satan)
Post #: 157
RE: Scottish independence debate - 16/3/2014 9:45:19 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18012
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
A quite interesting interview with Salmond presently on the Andrew Marr show which is quite revealing with regards to Salmond's actual lack of answers. Marr is not letting him off gently with the question of monetary union raised with Salmond claiming it will happen no matter what anyone else says, mar is asking him what happens if it does not happen and he has no answers or alternative at all and is almost lost for words over actually being asked to answer a question. It is quite funny. Also the question of EU membership is raised with Marr confirming that the EU president was "steely" in his resolve that an Independent Scotland would not be joining the EU and once again Salmond has no answers and made a statement claiming support from various people (all of whom as Marr pointed out would have no part in the decision making process). Salmond is appears completely out of his depth and had to resort to impugning Marr by claiming he had an agenda. It was almost funny if it had not been in relation to such an important matter and the fact that very, very important issues are still being obfuscated by Salmond which people really need to know the answer to in order to make an informed decision.

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Nothing to see here.



(in reply to MrsFinkelstein)
Post #: 158
RE: Scottish independence debate - 16/3/2014 10:39:36 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54439
Joined: 1/10/2005
Salmond flustered near made my day - he normally keeps up his bluster under all questions.

And he used the standard tactic they're now using up here - media bias, hiding the 'truth'. THere's a Business for Scotland secessionist lobby group that claims by telling those 'truths' it persuades more to the case for secession and then those persuaded ask how they didn't get the facts elsewhere. Simple answer - they're not facts. The BBC/broadsheets ask more questions and don't just take the secessionist fairytale at face value.

I genuinely hope they've overplayed their hand with this 'one of the wealthiest nations in the world' claptrap - anyone with sense must see this is a nonsense. Not to mention that the way businesses are playing it's perfectly clear they're going to demand near tax haven support to stay so where the hell is the money going to come for this social utopia they keep coming up with? Us. Plain and simple.


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 159
RE: Scottish independence debate - 16/3/2014 11:37:10 AM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 4985
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
Damnit, I changed channels as soon as I saw his slappable face, would've carried on watching if I'd known he was gonna get his arse handed to him.

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 160
RE: Scottish independence debate - 16/3/2014 12:36:37 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54439
Joined: 1/10/2005
My normal response too - but my other half watched it so I rewound

< Message edited by elab49 -- 16/3/2014 12:46:33 PM >


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to horribleives)
Post #: 161
RE: Scottish independence debate - 16/3/2014 8:35:57 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8054
Joined: 31/7/2008
I see he hasn't wasted any time in playing the victim card again in order to deflect attention away from his floundering though. You have to hand it to him, he's slipperier than an eel.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 162
RE: Scottish independence debate - 16/3/2014 8:44:50 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18012
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/mar/16/bbc-justify-andrew-marr-remarks-scotland-right-join-eu

I see what you mean as once again he tries to blame others for his own lack of answers. I would say as slimy as an eel may be more apt.

quote:


The Scottish National party's Westminster culture spokesman, Pete Wishart, went on to Twitter to say "there would be consequences" following Marr's interjection, branding the exchange the worst BBC interview on the independence debate. The party has asked the corporation to explain what Marr meant.


I would agree that it is Salmond's worst interview as as far as I could see Marr was just trying to get answers to questions which Salmond is refusing to face.

I note a lot of the nationalists on various news media are claiming bias and Marr getting flustered before a cool and collected Salmond but they must have been watching another interview or be deluded as it appeared that Salmond was the flustered one.

< Message edited by sanchia -- 16/3/2014 8:52:43 PM >


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Nothing to see here.



(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 163
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