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RE: Scottish independence debate - 29/5/2012 12:28:39 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby

Apathy? Turnout requirement? Piss-poor turnout hasn't nullified council elections. If the turnout is low then the turnout is low. If the YES vote wins in such a situation then those who voted no will be in the minority. In a democracy that means a loss. And vice versa.

If I end up on the losing side I won't be wittering about being forced to live in a polity.


THere is surely a clear substantive difference between electing some local to spend a few quid and the secession of Scotland from the Union that will impact on all generations to come? Comparing it to council elections is a specious argument IMO - there is a several step difference in this.

Oh - and I'll bet you will. Unlike current generation SNP opportunism, you seem like a true believer. And if your lot couldn't let it go 30 odd years ago you aren't going to let it go, no vote or not IMO.


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 31
RE: Scottish independence debate - 29/5/2012 3:17:47 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I still don't understand why it needs to be 2014.


Didn't you know? I coincides with Bannockburn, the shambles/non-event that will be the Glasgow commonwealth games and most importantly its going to take at least two years for S(NP)TV to produce their "big budget" Braveheart mini-series (freedom on a shoe-string). Perfect propaganda for Salmond.

Duh!

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 32
RE: Scottish independence debate - 29/5/2012 4:17:48 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6288
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I still don't understand why it needs to be 2014.


Didn't you know? I coincides with Bannockburn, the shambles/non-event that will be the Glasgow commonwealth games and most importantly its going to take at least two years for S(NP)TV to produce their "big budget" Braveheart mini-series (freedom on a shoe-string). Perfect propaganda for Salmond.

Duh!


Salmond had better hope it doesn't slip a year in that case  -I wouldn't imagine the anniversary of The Fifteen is something with which he'd want to be associated!

_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 33
RE: Scottish independence debate - 29/5/2012 4:40:22 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4257
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

I still don't understand why it needs to be 2014.


Didn't you know? I coincides with Bannockburn, the shambles/non-event that will be the Glasgow commonwealth games and most importantly its going to take at least two years for S(NP)TV to produce their "big budget" Braveheart mini-series (freedom on a shoe-string). Perfect propaganda for Salmond.

Duh!


2014 will also of course be the centenery for the Great War. I can see the anti-Yes campaign hoping to appeal to the country's sense of unity in the commemoration of that.


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to Spaldron)
Post #: 34
RE: Scottish independence debate - 11/6/2012 4:30:16 AM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
Time for an update:

Voicing concerns about the exclusionary tactics by the SNP the lad Harvie from the Greens says he is swithering over whether to recommend to the Green's conference thingy that they officially join the YES campaign. Basically saying "Hemmin! Salmond! Gimme a proper job!"

The YES campaign have said they will operate under usual electoral campaign rules in the UK by not accepting more than 500 from an individual not eligible to vote in the referendum They've also said they won't accept donations from organisations. This is all by way of attempting to pressure the NO campaign to limit its funding to Scottish based individuals i.e. no trade unions, no City of London, no big UK donors to the UK parties. Pragmatic tactics obviously but there is a legitimate question as to whether money from outside the area and population that can vote should affect the outcome. YES campaign citing a Quebec referendum where the voting difference was 1.2% and there was what was later deemed an illegal spend of $400,000 on the winning campaign - did it make the difference? The answer to the question, say the YES campaign, is not the point. That there is a question is the point. The NO campaign would struggle to fund itself if the only donations it chose to accept above 500 had to come from inside Scotland.

The NO campaign has been branded "Better Together." Alastair Darling, some Tory muppet and some Lib Dem diddy are on the board of the company. Apparently it is accepted and approved within the NO campaign that the muppets and diddies should remain in the background due to the loathing and rage of the electorate. Labour to the fore.

All kinds of "identity politics" kicking off in the midst and wake of the mass expression of self-satisfied servility that was the Jubilee. I refer you all to the Herald columnists Ian Bell and Iain MacWhirter. Scottish independence is about political power not flags and stuff. Ed Miliband reckons independent Scots won't be allowed to call themselves British. Muppet.

Not directly related to the campaign but interesting none-the-less is the stance of the EIS regarding 3 issues:

1. Decide not to strike concerning the unpreparedness in relation to the new exams in the near future. Heavy criticism from studies done on the implementation of the Curriculum for Excellence and the guidance given to teachers concerning it. The exam stuff is just a cherry on top as far as I can see.
2. Might strike about pensions and stuff. Fair enough. But surely leaves them open to criticism of caring more about themselves than the pupils.
3. Criticism of the Scottish government's decision to make it compulsory that a Higher student answer a question in the English exam on a literary work by a Scottish person. When I did my higher English we did Burns, Grassic Gibbon. I did my big book review thing on a McIlvanney novel. We were all over our Scottish literature. I find it odd that the EIS should get their knickers in a twist over this. The government decision came on the back of a whole heap of literati and academics saying that there needed to be more Scottish literature in the curriculum. Some of the more rabid unionists I know have been using word like "indoctrination". Weird.

This mega-montai phuck-about with Education illustrates the importance of the stuff that has ever been in our own hands. The Trinity of Law, Religion and Education. Education being head and shoulders the most important. Still making an arse of it.

And finally, apparently Salmond is before Leveson this week. Fun and games ahead. Salmond still hasn't revealed whether his phone was hacked by NI or not, despite repeated attempts by journos and in Holyrood to drag it out of him. His slimy spin doctor McAlpine had her phone hacked so it wouldn't be a shock if Salmond's was too. If his was hacked and he still fluttered eye-lashes at wrinkley Rupert then the ridicule will be a sight to see - a lot of people have been waiting a long time for such a thing.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 35
RE: Scottish independence debate - 11/6/2012 8:49:34 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby

This is all by way of attempting to pressure the NO campaign to limit its funding to Scottish based individuals


Sorry if I've not picked up on a change here - but didn't Salmond have some woolly idea about people who hadn't seen Scotland in decades being able to vote? I always found it confusing he went on about people all over the world being able to have a say (presumably on the understanding that the 'grass is greener,. hoots mon sentimentality' vote would go their way) but not Scots living in, say, England. Who are more like to move back and as much entitled to a say as a foreigner living in Scotland (by which I mean some of the EU lot).

< Message edited by elab49 -- 11/6/2012 8:50:17 AM >


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 36
RE: Scottish independence debate - 11/6/2012 1:24:54 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby

This is all by way of attempting to pressure the NO campaign to limit its funding to Scottish based individuals


Sorry if I've not picked up on a change here - but didn't Salmond have some woolly idea about people who hadn't seen Scotland in decades being able to vote? I always found it confusing he went on about people all over the world being able to have a say (presumably on the understanding that the 'grass is greener,. hoots mon sentimentality' vote would go their way) but not Scots living in, say, England. Who are more like to move back and as much entitled to a say as a foreigner living in Scotland (by which I mean some of the EU lot).


I dimly recall that in times past there was a notion floated by the SNP that ex-pats should get the vote. I'm not sure they figured out how to do it or where the generational cut-off was. Born in Scotland but left? A parent born in Scotland but left? A grandparent? I'm not sure how far this idea got. I'm not sure it survived the electoral landslide when a referendum became a reality rather than an aim.

It now seems that only those registered to vote in Holyrood elections will get a vote in the referendum. I seem to recall, though am far from sure, that this had something to do with the referendum being called by Holyrood thus defining the electorate.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 37
RE: Scottish independence debate - 11/6/2012 1:32:24 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
Cheers. I thought I'd seen it in the consultation document but I must be mixing it up with something else.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 38
RE: Scottish independence debate - 11/6/2012 10:18:01 PM   
MrsFinkelstein


Posts: 184
Joined: 29/2/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby

Time for an update:

Voicing concerns about the exclusionary tactics by the SNP the lad Harvie from the Greens says he is swithering over whether to recommend to the Green's conference thingy that they officially join the YES campaign. Basically saying "Hemmin! Salmond! Gimme a proper job!"


Or more a case of Harvie twigging this is all about the SNPs view of independence and the SNP only wanted the Greens to stand at the back and make up the numbers?

quote:

The YES campaign have said they will operate under usual electoral campaign rules in the UK by not accepting more than 500 from an individual not eligible to vote in the referendum They've also said they won't accept donations from organisations. This is all by way of attempting to pressure the NO campaign to limit its funding to Scottish based individuals i.e. no trade unions, no City of London, no big UK donors to the UK parties. Pragmatic tactics obviously but there is a legitimate question as to whether money from outside the area and population that can vote should affect the outcome. YES campaign citing a Quebec referendum where the voting difference was 1.2% and there was what was later deemed an illegal spend of $400,000 on the winning campaign - did it make the difference? The answer to the question, say the YES campaign, is not the point. That there is a question is the point. The NO campaign would struggle to fund itself if the only donations it chose to accept above 500 had to come from inside Scotland.


they may have shot themselves in the foot a bit there, as if they truly stick to the letter of the rules then they shouldn't really use any of the 1 million donated by the Euro million winners. Would just seem a bit off to use money initially fronted by the population of France and Spain, or just me?

quote:

The NO campaign has been branded "Better Together." Alastair Darling, some Tory muppet and some Lib Dem diddy are on the board of the company. Apparently it is accepted and approved within the NO campaign that the muppets and diddies should remain in the background due to the loathing and rage of the electorate. Labour to the fore.

All kinds of "identity politics" kicking off in the midst and wake of the mass expression of self-satisfied servility that was the Jubilee. I refer you all to the Herald columnists Ian Bell and Iain MacWhirter. Scottish independence is about political power not flags and stuff. Ed Miliband reckons independent Scots won't be allowed to call themselves British. Muppet.


Well, we won't will we? We won't be part of the UK anymore. Great Britain is all about the UK. You can't have it both ways, we're either in the UK and British, or we're Scottish. Personally, I think Brian Cox was a total twat at the Yes launch the other week (and it pains me greatly to say that as I have always liked Brian Cox), but being British has never made me feel any less of a Scot.

quote:

Not directly related to the campaign but interesting none-the-less is the stance of the EIS regarding 3 issues:

1. Decide not to strike concerning the unpreparedness in relation to the new exams in the near future. Heavy criticism from studies done on the implementation of the Curriculum for Excellence and the guidance given to teachers concerning it. The exam stuff is just a cherry on top as far as I can see.
2. Might strike about pensions and stuff. Fair enough. But surely leaves them open to criticism of caring more about themselves than the pupils.
3. Criticism of the Scottish government's decision to make it compulsory that a Higher student answer a question in the English exam on a literary work by a Scottish person. When I did my higher English we did Burns, Grassic Gibbon. I did my big book review thing on a McIlvanney novel. We were all over our Scottish literature. I find it odd that the EIS should get their knickers in a twist over this. The government decision came on the back of a whole heap of literati and academics saying that there needed to be more Scottish literature in the curriculum. Some of the more rabid unionists I know have been using word like "indoctrination". Weird.


I took it as being more of an issue that the exam question HAD to be by a Scottish author, rather than Scottish authors work being part of the curriculum as a whole, and they are as likely to come up in an exam as any other piece of work. The exam board should be able to set the questions they feel are most appropriate rather than trying to shoe horn in particular questions based on an authors place of birth.

quote:

This mega-montai phuck-about with Education illustrates the importance of the stuff that has ever been in our own hands. The Trinity of Law, Religion and Education. Education being head and shoulders the most important. Still making an arse of it.


depends on your POV really, I see it as more of a Govt with an agenda forcing that upon a department that should have no political influence. And the fact they've ballsed things up so much with CfE doesn't inspire confidence. Scottish Education has always been separate from the rest of the UK anyway though, it's always been in our hands! I never sat O Levels, or A levels - I sat O Grades, Higher grades and Sixth Year Studies, and while the curriculum was similiar to the English, it was certainly not led by them.

quote:

And finally, apparently Salmond is before Leveson this week. Fun and games ahead. Salmond still hasn't revealed whether his phone was hacked by NI or not, despite repeated attempts by journos and in Holyrood to drag it out of him. His slimy spin doctor McAlpine had her phone hacked so it wouldn't be a shock if Salmond's was too. If his was hacked and he still fluttered eye-lashes at wrinkley Rupert then the ridicule will be a sight to see - a lot of people have been waiting a long time for such a thing.


That I do agree with, I think we all know Salmond smiled and bent forward nicely for Rupert, but he;s such a slimy sod I can see him bluffing his way out of this too!




< Message edited by MrsFinkelstein -- 11/6/2012 10:21:49 PM >

(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 39
RE: Scottish independence debate - 11/6/2012 11:11:36 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsFinkelstein

Or more a case of Harvie twigging this is all about the SNPs view of independence and the SNP only wanted the Greens to stand at the back and make up the numbers?


Could be. I doubt it though. Harvie's a self-publicist if nothing else. A bit of justified milking I think.

quote:

they may have shot themselves in the foot a bit there, as if they truly stick to the letter of the rules then they shouldn't really use any of the 1 million donated by the Euro million winners. Would just seem a bit off to use money initially fronted by the population of France and Spain, or just me?


Should Scots making money through exports be banned from contributing?

quote:

Well, we won't will we? We won't be part of the UK anymore. Great Britain is all about the UK. You can't have it both ways, we're either in the UK and British, or we're Scottish. Personally, I think Brian Cox was a total twat at the Yes launch the other week (and it pains me greatly to say that as I have always liked Brian Cox), but being British has never made me feel any less of a Scot.


Great Britain is the name of the island. The term British pre-dates by at least a millennium Union of the Crowns and the Union of Parliaments. There are levels of identity. If people can separate politics from geography and the like then who's anyone to tell them they can't. I don't see myself as British but I'm not gonna tell others what they can feel. I can take the p!ssout of them, laugh at their oddness... an independent Scotland was before and will be again part of the British Isles, as it is now.

quote:

I took it as being more of an issue that the exam question HAD to be by a Scottish author, rather than Scottish authors work being part of the curriculum as a whole, and they are as likely to come up in an exam as any other piece of work. The exam board should be able to set the questions they feel are most appropriate rather than trying to shoe horn in particular questions based on an authors place of birth.


I'm nae a fan of the CfE or the SNP's approach to Education. I just thought it was odd to make a bit of fuss about this when they're backing down over the problems with the new exams in general. I do think that Scottish literature should be part of a higher exam. Of course exam boards should set the questions.

Surely a bit of Shakespeare is compulsory in A Level English?

quote:

depends on your POV really, I see it as more of a Govt with an agenda forcing that upon a department that should have no political influence. And the fact they've ballsed things up so much with CfE doesn't inspire confidence. Scottish Education has always been separate from the rest of the UK anyway though, it's always been in our hands! I never sat O Levels, or A levels - I sat O Grades, Higher grades and Sixth Year Studies, and while the curriculum was similiar to the English, it was certainly not led by them.


As I said, it has ever been our responsibility. And for the most part we've made a bit of a rickets of it. Fancy ideas. No will.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to MrsFinkelstein)
Post #: 40
RE: Scottish independence debate - 12/6/2012 7:16:46 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18300
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsFinkelstein

Or more a case of Harvie twigging this is all about the SNPs view of independence and the SNP only wanted the Greens to stand at the back and make up the numbers?


Could be. I doubt it though. Harvie's a self-publicist if nothing else. A bit of justified milking I think.




The thing is it is all about perception. In my perception one of the biggest self publicists out there is Salmond.


_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 41
RE: Scottish independence debate - 12/6/2012 8:27:10 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia


quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsFinkelstein

Or more a case of Harvie twigging this is all about the SNPs view of independence and the SNP only wanted the Greens to stand at the back and make up the numbers?


Could be. I doubt it though. Harvie's a self-publicist if nothing else. A bit of justified milking I think.




The thing is it is all about perception. In my perception one of the biggest self publicists out there is Salmond.



And when your perception matches that of every other person on the planet 'cept said self-publicist, 'tis truth!


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 42
RE: Scottish independence debate - 12/6/2012 1:23:49 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
Salmond is a brilliant self publicist. Absolutely true.

That's not an argument against Harvie being a self publicist. Given the size of his party then it's fair enough. He's the most visible face of the Greens in Scotland. The more he's in the media the better for the Greens. It's not every week that the leader of the Scottish Greens gets his coupon on the front page of a Sunday newspaper. Harvie seeking a defined and significant role for the Greens and himself in the YES campaign is fair enough. He's trying to get it the only way he can - by threatening to campaign for independence outside the tent the SNP have built.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 43
RE: Scottish independence debate - 14/6/2012 12:46:52 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8061
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

not an argument against Harvie being a self publicist. Given the size of his party then it's fair enough. He's the most visible face of the Greens in Scotland. The more he's in the media the better for the Greens. It's not every week that the leader of the Scottish Greens gets his coupon on the front page of a Sunday newspaper. Harvie seeking a defined and significant role for the Greens and himself in the Y


Do you have to be named after a fish in order to get to the upper echelons of the SNP?

_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 44
RE: Scottish independence debate - 14/6/2012 10:01:19 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
Ah yes. Good point as always Bob.

Election campaign manager... that famous scavenger fish the Robertson.
Finance Minister... the Great White Swinney
Education... the Rainbow Russell

But of course there's Sturgeon and Salmon with a "d" so that's hilarious.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 45
RE: Scottish independence debate - 15/6/2012 2:22:15 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8061
Joined: 30/9/2005
Sorry boaby, I didn't realise this was a serious thread.

Not to worry, none of them will be remembered in a couple of years time.

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 15/6/2012 2:27:15 PM >


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 46
RE: Scottish independence debate - 15/6/2012 2:44:34 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6288
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

Do you have to be named after a fish in order to get to the upper echelons of the SNP?


It would explain the smell at least

_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 47
RE: Scottish independence debate - 15/6/2012 2:48:38 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8061
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

Do you have to be named after a fish in order to get to the upper echelons of the SNP?


It would explain the smell at least


Careful now, I think I may have stumbled onto a topic upon which humour isn't very abundant.

I'd hate for you to be on the recieving end of the virtual disapproving looks I'm now getting.


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 48
RE: Scottish independence debate - 15/6/2012 2:50:48 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6288
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
Pah, I'm surrounded every day by Northern Ireland's political masters.  SNP and the like are lightweights by comparison

_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 49
RE: Scottish independence debate - 26/6/2012 1:48:50 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
NO campaign is up and running.

"Best of both worlds" is what they're driving at. Not sure what both worlds are. Independence and complete merging with the rest of the UK? Not sure if the "process" of devolution is the best of any two worlds. Calling devolution a "process" is sure to feature heavily. It's the carrot - we'll give you more stuff to play with. The stick seems to be the the economic/political/social carnage that's apparently sure to follow a YES vote.

Interesting times.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 50
RE: Scottish independence debate - 7/7/2012 9:34:24 AM   
Magneto

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 1/7/2012
From: Scotland
We are better off keeping our resources for ourselves such as oil,gas,coal,shale gas, water, tidal, wind and even gold and building a prosperous little country. And I make no bones about it, we should be selfish. We'd be ditched in a heartbeat if it was the other way round but we have the offshore industry.

I'll leave you with this. We are the only nation in the world to strike oil and get poorer.

P.S You can have some whisky, Englanders.




_____________________________

In chess the pawns go first.

(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 51
RE: Scottish independence debate - 7/7/2012 4:40:14 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Magneto

I'll leave you with this. We are the only nation in the world to strike oil and get poorer.





Ever heard of Iraq, Iran, Libya, Venezuela, [insert name of a dozen African republics] the list goes on....

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Magneto)
Post #: 52
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/7/2012 4:15:38 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
Shenanigans afoot.

SNP have what's been described as a "Clause 4 moment" and would now look to be part of NATO, and all that that entails, in their vision of an independent Scotland. Could be a rough conference for Salmond, if the party finds its set of balls .

SNP also seeking to pressurise Cameron to define what extra powers he would devolve in the wake of a win for the NO campaign. Having been burned in '79 seems fair enough to offer the Scots a stick-on alternative rather than a vague promise. Same argument flung at the YES campaign really. Define what Union would be before expecting people to vote for it.

All in all, not a very principled or principle-based campaign so far. Pretty Machiavellian. All the main parties trying to find an angle in just about any story to slate the other side or, less common, to support their case.

Frustrating.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 53
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/7/2012 4:18:09 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby

Shenanigans afoot.

SNP have what's been described as a "Clause 4 moment" and would now look to be part of NATO, and all that that entails, in their vision of an independent Scotland. Could be a rough conference for Salmond, if the party finds its set of balls .

SNP also seeking to pressurise Cameron to define what extra powers he would devolve in the wake of a win for the NO campaign. Having been burned in '79 seems fair enough to offer the Scots a stick-on alternative rather than a vague promise. Same argument flung at the YES campaign really. Define what Union would be before expecting people to vote for it.

All in all, not a very principled or principle-based campaign so far. Pretty Machiavellian. All the main parties trying to find an angle in just about any story to slate the other side or, less common, to support their case.

Frustrating.


Ironic that Salmond is shouting at others to bring forward ideas when, as you just mentioned, he himself is struggling.

Is it just me or has the Pro camp come under some fire recently - the two question thing really hit them hard.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 54
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/7/2012 4:59:32 PM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby

SNP have what's been described as a "Clause 4 moment" and would now look to be part of NATO, and all that that entails,



Well that's quite a U-turn isn't it?

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 55
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/7/2012 5:04:50 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: boaby

Shenanigans afoot.

SNP have what's been described as a "Clause 4 moment" and would now look to be part of NATO, and all that that entails, in their vision of an independent Scotland. Could be a rough conference for Salmond, if the party finds its set of balls .

SNP also seeking to pressurise Cameron to define what extra powers he would devolve in the wake of a win for the NO campaign. Having been burned in '79 seems fair enough to offer the Scots a stick-on alternative rather than a vague promise. Same argument flung at the YES campaign really. Define what Union would be before expecting people to vote for it.

All in all, not a very principled or principle-based campaign so far. Pretty Machiavellian. All the main parties trying to find an angle in just about any story to slate the other side or, less common, to support their case.

Frustrating.


Ironic that Salmond is shouting at others to bring forward ideas when, as you just mentioned, he himself is struggling.

Is it just me or has the Pro camp come under some fire recently - the two question thing really hit them hard.


The YES campaign has come under fire since it kicked off. They still have a huge problem in that it is seemingly inseparable from the SNP. Whenever the SNP announce something or do something it is automatically attached to the YES campaign. The head of the YES campaign, in the little he has said, made it clear that the YES campaign was not about policies it was about independence. That notion is getting lost.

The Two question thing appears to be an SNP notion. It's getting to the stage where there might be enough dissension in the SNP to call it a Salmondian notion. A fair wedge of the party don't fancy it. That's part of the reason for nipping at the Unionists to define the powers they'd devolve - it might render a 2nd question moot as it may in effect be achievable with a no vote. I don't know if it's significant or not but the nipping of Cameron is not coming from Salmond but from Linda Fabiani, convener of the Scotland Bill Committee. It may be that the SNP are trying to get the Unionists to adopt the SNP's fallback position as their own.

Not a very inspiring debate so far.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 56
RE: Scottish independence debate - 16/8/2012 7:38:54 PM   
MrsFinkelstein


Posts: 184
Joined: 29/2/2012
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9478043/Mike-Russell-must-relax-deplorable-university-admission-rules.html

I know a couple of posters here have already mentioned this before, in that there are fewer places for Scots students in order to recoup fees. Wonder if this will have any impact on voters come the referendum - especially amongst the under 25s.

It is by the Torygraph and the Rector quoted is from an independent school, so they do have their own agenda, still, free higher education was a big sop from the SNP, if they can't provide it it could back to bite them on their bahookie...

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 57
RE: Scottish independence debate - 16/8/2012 7:48:25 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
There is quite a lot of spin on that. There's always been a cap on student numbers - there can't not be when it's the public purse funding them. Where the gap occurs is if the university can fit more students on the course and bring in foreign students to pay for them. What we might be seeing there is an independent school actually getting pissy because of the relative success of the widening-access programme, which can give some precedence to students from poorer backgrounds and that help might be taking places the paid for students aren't getting. So why bother paying the school the parents might ask?

I'm not aware of many courses that have reduced the home students figures over the last couple of years. Medicine will be reducing overall numbers but that flows directly from the NHS workload projections. It should be able to check though - grant letters used to be openly available on the SFC website and the appendices confirmed home numbers.


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to MrsFinkelstein)
Post #: 58
RE: Scottish independence debate - 15/10/2012 12:51:37 PM   
boaby

 

Posts: 2808
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire
Right then. Off we go. Yet another start to the biggest political debate in Scotland.

Big Eck and Trish all handshakey and friendly in front of the children in Edinburgh, lest we think the marital tension is our fault.

100 weeks to try to sift through ever increasing layers of crud piled upon the issue by all sides. Media doing their stuff.

A debate, a debate, this kingdom for a debate.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 59
RE: Scottish independence debate - 15/10/2012 12:55:08 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Everyone remember that massive launch at the start of year about the consultation on the referendum? The one at Edinburgh Castle? The one with the worlds media present? The one which had over 20,000 responses, the results of which would be published in autumn?

Fat lot of good that was.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to boaby)
Post #: 60
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