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RE: Scottish independence debate - 19/9/2014 5:03:34 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 4000
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh
Now the inevitable backtracking begins. If things go the way as expected, it's going to be very hard for 1.6 million people not to feel very bitter and bleak about the future. Pretty sobering waking up in a country you scarcely recognise.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11108429/Boris-Johnson-David-Camerons-pledge-to-Scotland-is-reckless.html


Not surprised Salmond has announced his resignation either, this was always going to be his peak moment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruisecontroller

Things are already looking up for Scotland in the Union after the No Vote win this morning.


http://glasgow.stv.tv/articles/292485-bae-systems-to-put-200m-scotstoun-development-contracts-to-tender/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2762356/NO-vote-means-YES-tourism-Scotland-sees-immediate-rush-bookings-England-5-rise-holidaymakers-US.html



Whoop...de...doo.



_____________________________

Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. A Hijacking
4. Behind the Candelabra
5. In The Fog
6. Good Vibrations
7. McCullin
8. Beyond the Hills
9. The Place Beyond the Pines
10. Wreck-it Ralph

(in reply to Cruisecontroller)
Post #: 271
RE: Scottish independence debate - 19/9/2014 6:53:56 PM   
Craig32


Posts: 297
Joined: 17/8/2014
The asshole has resigned as First Minister. He's throwing his toys from the pram!

(in reply to Qwerty Norris)
Post #: 272
RE: Scottish independence debate - 19/9/2014 7:51:32 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4258
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
It was expected that he would resign, how is that throwing his toys out? I'm no fan of him but he's doing the dignified thing given the situation.



_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to Craig32)
Post #: 273
RE: Scottish independence debate - 19/9/2014 8:23:14 PM   
Craig32


Posts: 297
Joined: 17/8/2014
quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

It was expected that he would resign, how is that throwing his toys out? I'm no fan of him but he's doing the dignified thing given the situation.



He was, and still is, an arrogant man who wanted his own way at the expense of others. He's forever divided Scotland.

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 274
RE: Scottish independence debate - 20/9/2014 12:46:23 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
I have to admit, when I started watching that live feed last night after the votes had been cast, I actually started to hope the Yes campaign would win. It was the first time I'd seen real, everyday, normal people talking about it, not just point-scoring Politicians and yobs from both sides trying to shout louder than their opponents.

It may very well have been an absolute nightmare to make it work, but if there's one thing history has taught us over the centuries, nay, over the millennia, it's that humanity finds a way. People figure how to get things done, not just because they want to, but because they have to!

I feel a bit sorry for Salmond tonight. I thought he acted like a bit of a knob, but he's been fighting for this for decades. To fall by such a relatively small margin is gutting.

...

In other news, my aunt is telling me on Facebook that there appears to be violence in Glasgow tonight. Nazi saluting, violent thugs running rampant, using this as an excuse to incite fear.

UGH!

(in reply to Craig32)
Post #: 275
RE: Scottish independence debate - 21/9/2014 7:58:43 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
2 days old now, but that was old school crap - nothing to do with the referendum, just the usual suspect hooligans out for an excuse. Which many 'yes' accepted - a great tweet from ardent Yes Limmy pointing that out. I think they were annoyed they've not had an old firm match to let it out in ages. Another SNP failure - they've refused to deal with school faith segregation because they're desperate for the catholic vote.

On numbers, 2/3rds of the Scottish electorate did not vote yes - that's not a small margin. And please remember real people voted no as well? They just tended to be quieter - I've likened it elsewhere to the atmosphere at work after Diana died - you couldn't open your mouth because you didn't know who'd start shouting the odds at you. Where I work there were 3 undecideds in the room - 2 of them told me that everytime myself and the other person they though was a no voter weren't in the room the yes twosome did not stop going on at them. That's why there were virtually no 'no' posters in windows.

The attitude I've seen post-vote on social media I'm really hoping is just a distortion on there - after all, Twitter were positive of a 'yes' victory because of the use of the site. But the posts I've seen have been from very bad losers who're convinced they're some kind of martyrs who've created a straw man 'no' voter and that bloody idiot Salmond decided to incite them today, something he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself for. It's a dangerous attitude going forward- I'm just hoping calmer, more sensible heads will prevail. But I'm really not looking forward to going to work tomorrow.

_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 276
RE: Scottish independence debate - 21/9/2014 8:06:09 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwerty Norris
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruisecontroller

Things are already looking up for Scotland in the Union after the No Vote win this morning.


http://glasgow.stv.tv/articles/292485-bae-systems-to-put-200m-scotstoun-development-contracts-to-tender/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2762356/NO-vote-means-YES-tourism-Scotland-sees-immediate-rush-bookings-England-5-rise-holidaymakers-US.html



Whoop...de...doo.




Surely this is important, though? There were contracts put on hold subject to this vote - major investments and jobs for Scotland. Scores of existing contracts had get out and currency clauses included. I get that a lot of people thought they were voting for some kind of social utopia but at some pt they surely must realise someone has to pay for it? And that'd be fewer businesses because of the baffling decision to cut corp tax - a tip? Don't get into a business cutting tax war with the bunch of Tories next door. You'll lose.



_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Qwerty Norris)
Post #: 277
RE: Scottish independence debate - 22/9/2014 10:16:33 PM   
Imperion

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 16/6/2014
From: Quezon City
On this topic, I though there was even a discussion on UK keeping the castles instead of letting them just be Scottish castles. But they're still Scottish castles nonetheless, hehe.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 278
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 9:06:04 AM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17377
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
I'm totally unclear as to why Andy Murray has had to offer any "regret", much let alone any kind of apology, over his tweets of support for the Yes campaign. His comments weren't unique to a lot of what was being said about the No campaign at the time from not just prominent Yes supporters, but those sitting on the edge. They weren't extreme, they weren't insulting or abusive and they were quite diplomatic in terms of the outcome, he wasn't launching a tirade of what would happen if Scotland didn't gain independence. Which is far more than what we can say for the plethora of fucking idiots who tweeted him back...

So if you are a high-profile celebrity it is now wrong for you to offer any kind of cemented political opinion, but yet if you are an average joe by all means you tweet horrific and hurtful insults about schoolchildren being shot. I mean, you don't have an image to fulfill, apart from that of appearing like the human race is half fucking decent...

Also didn't the vast amount of comments prove Murray kind of right about no campaign negativity, and I'm not sure that term does them anywhere close to justice?

Why people can't use common sense and separate the two is beyond me. Do we really need it spoon-fed to us that celebrities can hold opinions that are different from our own, and yet we can still be fans of their particular art?

quote:

It was expected that he would resign, how is that throwing his toys out? I'm no fan of him but he's doing the dignified thing given the situation.


I agree. Whatever you think of him and his policies he accepted the people's decision and stepped down and did it very fluidly and without little fuss. That's quite rare in modern politics. He was entitled to urge the Yes campaign on, that's his belief and there's nothing wrong with that. He's not the only one who's acted like a knob during this referendum either.



_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Imperion)
Post #: 279
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 10:15:58 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10462
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca
I think you'll find that Murray's apology tweet was most likely directed towards his sponsors rather than anything else. He's just been handed 5M by Standard Life for knocking a tennis ball around and generally being the kind of champion they want their brand associated with. I'm sure that as a stauch campaigner of the "no" vote, they were not so happy then when one of their highest paid associates got all tweet happy.

Personally I think its a shame that Murray hasn't made enough out of his career that he doesn't think he can say and do what he thinks within reason without kowtowing in such a way. Still saying sorry for 5M probably isn't a bad day's work.

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 280
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 3:11:37 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18304
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
Although considering how things went last time he said the same thing you would think he would have expected the same this time. That said he is welcome to an opinion and the sick individual stating they wished he had been murdered during the Dunblane massacre is an example to the worst humanity and the internet has to offer.

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Nothing to see here.



(in reply to Professor Moriarty)
Post #: 281
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 3:29:58 PM   
Craig32


Posts: 297
Joined: 17/8/2014
Isn't that sick individual also entitled to an opinion?

(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 282
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 5:25:22 PM   
jonson


Posts: 9150
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Craig32

Isn't that sick individual also entitled to an opinion?


Not when it concerns wishing someone had died in a horrific massacre, of which Murray may still show the mental scars.

Oh fuck, why am I even replying?

_____________________________

I've got all the Barbie ones!!!

Yeah but you're old. Really old. Old. Old. Old. Old.

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Post #: 283
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 5:33:50 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4258
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Craig32

Isn't that sick individual also entitled to an opinion?


Well, yes, but only if they had actually been stating one. Wishing death on someone is not expressing an opinion, it's just being a cunt.

For example, I could say that I (and many others here) consider you to be an annoying twat. That's an opinion. Instructing you to fuck off is not.

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to Craig32)
Post #: 284
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 7:10:54 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18304
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:


The Malicious Communications Act 1988 ("the MCA") makes it a criminal offence to send an electronic communication in any form that is indecent or grossly offensive, or which conveys a threat, or which is false, provided there is an intent to cause distress or anxiety to the recipient. Similarly, the Communications Act 2003 ("the CA") makes it a criminal offence to send messages by means of a public electronic communications network such as Twitter which are grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character. The main distinction between the MCA and the CA is that the scope of the MCA is much broader extending to letters and articles as opposed to solely electronic communications and unlike the CA it is not limited solely to public electronic communications networks. Convicted offenders under both the MCA and the CA can be jailed for up to 6 months and fined up to £5,000.


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Nothing to see here.



(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 285
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 7:17:45 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

Although considering how things went last time he said the same thing you would think he would have expected the same this time.


He probably let his guard down after the British public so graciously took him into their hearts when he won the Olympic Gold medal, and then Wimbledon a year later.

(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 286
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 7:25:23 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18304
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

quote:

Although considering how things went last time he said the same thing you would think he would have expected the same this time.


He probably let his guard down after the British public so graciously took him into their hearts when he won the Olympic Gold medal, and then Wimbledon a year later.


There was that but he had become something of a pariah after the last time he made a similar statement and that should have given warning of the fickle nature of the public.

_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



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Post #: 287
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 8:16:28 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8297
Joined: 31/7/2008
It's a typical massively-over-the-top reaction to a guy expressing an opinion he's perfectly entitled to hold. Some people shouldn't be allowed near the internet, their perspectivometers are broken.

(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 288
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 9:08:32 PM   
Craig32


Posts: 297
Joined: 17/8/2014
Superdan, what about the assholes who get married and/or have kids? Theirs is also broken but they chose to go with these things anyway.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 289
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 9:27:07 PM   
RobotDevil

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 3/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

It's a typical massively-over-the-top reaction to a guy expressing an opinion he's perfectly entitled to hold. Some people shouldn't be allowed near the internet, their perspectivometers are broken.


The reaction is over the top, typically.

However, Murray was swayed in his opinion by flag waving emotional BS and a negative 'no' campaign, not genuine issues.

Also, if he loves Scotland so much and wanted it's independence, why was he unable to vote? Someone who truly cared about it would have ensured he could vote, one way or the other.

_____________________________

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(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 290
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 9:28:11 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8297
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Craig32

Superdan, what about the assholes who get married and/or have kids? Theirs is also broken but they chose to go with these things anyway.


I have no idea what you're on about.

(in reply to Craig32)
Post #: 291
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 9:35:34 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8297
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobotDevil

Also, if he loves Scotland so much and wanted it's independence, why was he unable to vote? Someone who truly cared about it would have ensured he could vote, one way or the other.


I don't think it's necessary for someone to move house in order to express an opinion. He's Scottish, of course he has feelings about it even if he was prevented from voting by the terms of the referendum. But then I suppose we live in an era where sportspeople are derided for being boring and aloof, but castigated if they show some honesty.

(in reply to RobotDevil)
Post #: 292
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 9:49:58 PM   
Craig32


Posts: 297
Joined: 17/8/2014

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Craig32

Superdan, what about the assholes who get married and/or have kids? Theirs is also broken but they chose to go with these things anyway.


I have no idea what you're on about.


You don't understand my reply to your post? Now I've no idea what your on about!

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 293
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 10:34:02 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18304
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Craig32


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Craig32

Superdan, what about the assholes who get married and/or have kids? Theirs is also broken but they chose to go with these things anyway.


I have no idea what you're on about.


You don't understand my reply to your post? Now I've no idea what your on about!


You have leaped off on a tangent which has no connection at all to Superdan's comment in, that is why he has no idea what you are on about. Also you comment was rather incoherent.


_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



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Post #: 294
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 11:09:44 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17377
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Craig32

Isn't that sick individual also entitled to an opinion?


Disagreeing with somebody's political opinions by using a very rich piece of their personal history in which they watch their childhood friends get slaughtered and suggest the same should have happened to them is not "an opinion." That's abuse.

But seriously now, haven't you got tired of this?

Because of the rest of us most certainly fucking have.


_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to Craig32)
Post #: 295
RE: Scottish independence debate - 23/9/2014 11:14:18 PM   
Craig32


Posts: 297
Joined: 17/8/2014
Tired of what? You mean, you're tired? Huh, what?

(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 296
RE: Scottish independence debate - 24/9/2014 1:10:39 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 4000
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

2 days old now, but that was old school crap - nothing to do with the referendum, just the usual suspect hooligans out for an excuse. Which many 'yes' accepted - a great tweet from ardent Yes Limmy pointing that out. I think they were annoyed they've not had an old firm match to let it out in ages.


Precisely that. I genuinely worry for the ordinary Glaswegian if and when the time comes for them to cross swords again. A league cup quarter final tie would be a nightmare in waiting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Another SNP failure - they've refused to deal with school faith segregation because they're desperate for the catholic vote.


That's not exactly an issue any party has managed to get to grips with, especially Scottish Labour.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

On numbers, 2/3rds of the Scottish electorate did not vote yes - that's not a small margin.


But a significant portion of the population did, so I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

And please remember real people voted no as well? They just tended to be quieter - I've likened it elsewhere to the atmosphere at work after Diana died - you couldn't open your mouth because you didn't know who'd start shouting the odds at you.


Sounds like your experience was an awful lot more partisan than mine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Where I work there were 3 undecideds in the room - 2 of them told me that everytime myself and the other person they though was a no voter weren't in the room the yes twosome did not stop going on at them. That's why there were virtually no 'no' posters in windows.


The Yes campaign definitely appeared to have a 'shouting louder' policy. But I guess that happens when the establishment will is against you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

The attitude I've seen post-vote on social media I'm really hoping is just a distortion on there - after all, Twitter were positive of a 'yes' victory because of the use of the site. But the posts I've seen have been from very bad losers who're convinced they're some kind of martyrs who've created a straw man 'no' voter


I've seen a number of gloating better together supporters and activists on social media, including one provocative remark by the West Lothian segment. Winning or losing without grace is definitely not unique to one side of this debate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

and that bloody idiot Salmond decided to incite them today, something he should be thoroughly ashamed of himself for.


Are you seriously suggesting that Salmond's resignation was both cynically planned and took you by surprise? He was always going to step aside in the wake of a no vote. I think that's your own SNP/Salmond prejudice clouding your judgement there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

It's a dangerous attitude going forward- I'm just hoping calmer, more sensible heads will prevail. But I'm really not looking forward to going to work tomorrow.


Whether you like it or not, this debate isn't going away - and it will be further intensified if Labour put party politics ahead of their commitment to more powers to Holyrood. Unless Westminster dramatically reforms, the question will be back again in a much tighter time scale than 38 years.


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Surely this is important, though? There were contracts put on hold subject to this vote - major investments and jobs for Scotland. Scores of existing contracts had get out and currency clauses included. I get that a lot of people thought they were voting for some kind of social utopia but at some pt they surely must realise someone has to pay for it? And that'd be fewer businesses because of the baffling decision to cut corp tax - a tip? Don't get into a business cutting tax war with the bunch of Tories next door. You'll lose.



I'm not denying the importance, the wording of the previous poster's words however suggested that ordinary Scots who voted yes should take hope and comfort from this news. I didn't.

And I didn't vote for a social utopia, I voted for an independent Scotland (and all the challenges that would have presented in the short to medium term). Don't assume we're all blinded by extreme idealism.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

But seriously now, haven't you got tired of this?

Because of the rest of us most certainly fucking have.



If people keep taking his bate, he won't go away.

On another note, that blocking option's terrific!

_____________________________

Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. A Hijacking
4. Behind the Candelabra
5. In The Fog
6. Good Vibrations
7. McCullin
8. Beyond the Hills
9. The Place Beyond the Pines
10. Wreck-it Ralph

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 297
RE: Scottish independence debate - 24/9/2014 5:12:17 PM   
Craig32


Posts: 297
Joined: 17/8/2014
Cheers Qwerty, I've used the same blocking option on several members.

(in reply to Qwerty Norris)
Post #: 298
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