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Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 3:10:29 PM   
SadFace

 

Posts: 1816
Joined: 1/1/2008
From: Derbyshire / Leicester
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18137896

"Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, the only person convicted over the 1988 Lockerbie bombing above Scotland which killed 270 people, has died at his home in the Libyan capital Tripoli."



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

That's the most wrong I've ever seen someone be on this forum. And both Gimli and Elab post here.
Post #: 1
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 3:42:55 PM   
Keyser Sozzled


Posts: 5999
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Dublin
Saw this today alright.

Whilst a horrible individual involved in a barbaric act, I get a bit jumpy at the whole "Serves him right" issue.

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RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 3:58:14 PM   
Super Hans


Posts: 2400
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Watford
I suppose that proves he was dying afterall....although it wasn't quite the "3 months to live" that winged the very early prison release of a convicted mass murderer...

Whilst I agree with Keyser in that to say "serves him right" is a bit off, (few people with even a shred of humanity would wish cancer on anybody) I can't say I feel too sad about it.

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RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 4:50:46 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:28:05 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
Fatuous fathead is trying to save face again using the multitude of medical opinion defence again - wasn't one of the initial criticisms that it was basically one under pressure prison doctor that gave them the excuse to let him go? 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 5
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:30:01 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
Evidence was withheld from his case - the guy was very possibly stitched up, From Wikpedia :

New information casting fresh doubts about Megrahi's conviction was examined at a procedural hearing at the Judicial Appeal Court (Court of Session building) in Edinburgh on 11 October 2007:

His lawyers claimed that vital documents, which emanated from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and related to the Mebo timer that allegedly detonated the Lockerbie bomb, were withheld from the trial defence team.

Tony Gauci, chief prosecution witness at the trial, was alleged to have been paid $2 million for testifying against Megrahi.
Mebo's owner, Edwin Bollier, claimed that in 1991 the FBI offered him $4 million to testify that the timer fragment found near the scene of the crash was part of a Mebo MST-13 timer supplied to Libya.

Former employee of Mebo, Ulrich Lumpert, swore an affidavit in July 2007 that he had stolen a prototype MST-13 timer in 1989, and had handed it over to "a person officially investigating the Lockerbie case".

On 1 November 2007 Megrahi invited Professor Robert Black QC to visit him at Greenock Prison. After a two-hour meeting, Black stated "that not only was there a wrongful conviction, but the victim of it was an innocent man. Lawyers, and I hope others, will appreciate this distinction."

Prior to Megrahi's second appeal, another four procedural hearings took place at the High Court of Appeal in Edinburgh between December 2007 and June 2008.

In the June 2008 edition of the Scottish lawyers' magazine The Firm, the UN Observer at the Lockerbie trial, Professor Hans Köchler, referred to the 'totalitarian' nature of Megrahi's second appeal process saying it "bears the hallmarks of an 'intelligence operation'."

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 6
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:34:09 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14579
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
Oh well, if Wikipedia says...

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Post #: 7
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:40:09 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
All the links are there in the Wikpedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdelbaset_al-Megrahi#cite_note-32, I just mentioned it because has the info pointing at a miscarriage of justice all in one place

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Post #: 8
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:42:36 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
You're being very limited in what you're quoting though, Fluke. There were a lot of gaps from the trial including the fact that Megrahi actually went to Malta so regularly to see his bit on the side he could get in and out of the country without a record being kept.

The review thing highlighted a lot of problems, but not just on one side. There have been ongoing suggestions, however, that the lack of an appeal where this could all be dealt with was a factor in letting Megrahi out so quickly.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 9
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:43:57 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14579
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
But elab, don't you realise? IT WAZ DA EVIL AMERICANS DAT DUN IT.

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Post #: 10
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:45:40 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
Do some people really think the US were responsible for the plane coming down? Or just a post-even scapegoat as a quid pro quo somewhere? 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 11
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:49:43 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

But elab, don't you realise? IT WAZ DA EVIL AMERICANS DAT DUN IT.


It's a conspiracy. I'm already wearing my tin foil hat.

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Post #: 12
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:50:07 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14579
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
I've heard some more of the barking theories that the US were behind it (or at least knew it was happening and didn't stop it), yeah.

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RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:51:04 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
Good grief 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 14
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:56:59 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
Megrahi actually went to Malta



Hello!

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 15
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:57:17 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
This is one of the U.S. related theories

quote:

This shocking theory was promoted by Lester Coleman, a former member of the US Drug Enforcement Agency, who revealed the supposed existence of a protected drug route that ran between Europe and the US which allowed Syrian drug dealers to traffic heroin in return for providing the CIA with intelligence.

The agency ensured that suitcases containing drugs were not searched by airport authorities, but this backfired on them when the usual contents of the suitcases were replaced with a bomb.

A related theory alleges that the CIA let the attack happen, knowing that two of their agents who died on Flight 103 - Matthew Gannon and Major Charles McKee - had found out about the route and were returning to Washington to expose it.


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Post #: 16
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 6:58:19 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
Megrahi actually went to Malta



Hello!


quote:

Megrahi actually went to Malta so regularly to see his bit on the side


Have we finally found out who your dad is?

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 17
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 7:00:16 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

You're being very limited in what you're quoting though, Fluke. There were a lot of gaps from the trial including the fact that Megrahi actually went to Malta so regularly to see his bit on the side he could get in and out of the country without a record being kept.

The review thing highlighted a lot of problems, but not just on one side. There have been ongoing suggestions, however, that the lack of an appeal where this could all be dealt with was a factor in letting Megrahi out so quickly.



I dunno but maybe when you have QCs, UN observers and even families of the victims saying there's been a miscarriage of justice there might just be something in it.

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Post #: 18
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 7:03:24 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
Megrahi actually went to Malta



Hello!


quote:

Megrahi actually went to Malta so regularly to see his bit on the side


Have we finally found out who your dad is?



Well I was probably conceived sometime in 1988, Meghrabi claimed that he only came to Malta for sex....................OH GOD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 19
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 7:29:05 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2932
Joined: 6/10/2005
President Ragen was in office during the 80's and had a great talent for starting fires. Under his presidency he had no problem using US military to get his own way and was good at it too. For example the US navy smashed Iran's in the parsian Gulf and during the skirmishes a US naval ship accidently shot down an Iranian commercial jet. All this happened in 1988 and six months prior the Lockerbie bombing.


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Post #: 20
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 20/5/2012 7:36:14 PM   
Larry of Arabia

 

Posts: 7576
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From: Turtle Island
I'm surprised people have such definite opinions of Megrahi and his guilt, from what I've read the case seems to be anything but cut and dried whoever the blame is apportioned to.

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Post #: 21
Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 21/5/2012 4:02:12 PM   
spamandham

 

Posts: 521
Joined: 27/11/2008
Except he didn't do it.

(in reply to Keyser Sozzled)
Post #: 22
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 21/5/2012 4:31:07 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6289
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

I'm surprised people have such definite opinions of Megrahi and his guilt, from what I've read the case seems to be anything but cut and dried whoever the blame is apportioned to.


Have to agree with this.  From evidence that has since come to light, it does seem like it was a pretty unsafe conviction.  The evidence surrounding the timer and the identity of the person who purchased the clothes in Malta appears to be open to serious question (even though the defence wasn't allowed to do so during the trial).  The more suspicious could be forgiven for thinking that his early release was done more to stop further revelations coming to light during appeals than it was for humanitarian grounds.  That's not necessarily to say that his hands were completely clean, but I think there is reasonable doubt that he had the role that he was accused of.  Particularly when, despite Libya's admission to the UN, some intelligence experts appear to be placing blame back on the original suspects, Iran, in retaliation for the downing of their commercial airliner by USS Vincennes just a few months earlier which claimed nearly 300 lives; the worst action in what was already a period of extremely high tension between the countries, and an action for which the US still has never admitted responsibility nor apologised.

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Post #: 23
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 21/5/2012 4:43:01 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

I'm surprised people have such definite opinions of Megrahi and his guilt, from what I've read the case seems to be anything but cut and dried whoever the blame is apportioned to.


Have to agree with this.  From evidence that has since come to light, it does seem like it was a pretty unsafe conviction.  The evidence surrounding the timer and the identity of the person who purchased the clothes in Malta appears to be open to serious question (even though the defence wasn't allowed to do so during the trial).  The more suspicious could be forgiven for thinking that his early release was done more to stop further revelations coming to light during appeals than it was for humanitarian grounds.  That's not necessarily to say that his hands were completely clean, but I think there is reasonable doubt that he had the role that he was accused of.  Particularly when, despite Libya's admission to the UN, some intelligence experts appear to be placing blame back on the original suspects, Iran, in retaliation for the downing of their commercial airliner by USS Vincennes just a few months earlier which claimed nearly 300 lives; the worst action in what was already a period of extremely high tension between the countries, and an action for which the US still has never admitted responsibility nor apologised.


Yeah if he had really committed such a horrific crime he never in a million years would have been allowed to leave prison regardless of his health. The appeal that was on it's way and the subsequent revelations would have opened up such a massive can of worms that it was easier for the establishment to let him go.

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Post #: 24
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 22/5/2012 12:32:53 AM   
Spaldron


Posts: 10485
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

I'm surprised people have such definite opinions of Megrahi and his guilt, from what I've read the case seems to be anything but cut and dried whoever the blame is apportioned to.


Have to agree with this.  From evidence that has since come to light, it does seem like it was a pretty unsafe conviction.  The evidence surrounding the timer and the identity of the person who purchased the clothes in Malta appears to be open to serious question (even though the defence wasn't allowed to do so during the trial).  The more suspicious could be forgiven for thinking that his early release was done more to stop further revelations coming to light during appeals than it was for humanitarian grounds.  That's not necessarily to say that his hands were completely clean, but I think there is reasonable doubt that he had the role that he was accused of.  Particularly when, despite Libya's admission to the UN, some intelligence experts appear to be placing blame back on the original suspects, Iran, in retaliation for the downing of their commercial airliner by USS Vincennes just a few months earlier which claimed nearly 300 lives; the worst action in what was already a period of extremely high tension between the countries, and an action for which the US still has never admitted responsibility nor apologised.


This ^

They down a plane on purpose (there's even video footage of the naval officers high-fiving each other after blowing the Iranian flight out of the air) and never once have to face the consequences. On the other hand the other side down a plane on purpose and its all "evil them" etc... One rule for them and another rule for them, or something.

And if Megrahi was solely responsible for this (if at all) then I'm Daffy Duck.

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Post #: 25
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 22/5/2012 12:59:53 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
I don't think anyone has said he, and he alone did it. In fact they are hoping the new goverment will assist with tracking down further information. The case is still "live"

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Post #: 26
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 22/5/2012 1:09:43 AM   
Nexus Wookie


Posts: 2326
Joined: 24/9/2011
From: the Godcity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

I'm surprised people have such definite opinions of Megrahi and his guilt, from what I've read the case seems to be anything but cut and dried whoever the blame is apportioned to.


Have to agree with this.  From evidence that has since come to light, it does seem like it was a pretty unsafe conviction.  The evidence surrounding the timer and the identity of the person who purchased the clothes in Malta appears to be open to serious question (even though the defence wasn't allowed to do so during the trial).  The more suspicious could be forgiven for thinking that his early release was done more to stop further revelations coming to light during appeals than it was for humanitarian grounds.  That's not necessarily to say that his hands were completely clean, but I think there is reasonable doubt that he had the role that he was accused of.  Particularly when, despite Libya's admission to the UN, some intelligence experts appear to be placing blame back on the original suspects, Iran, in retaliation for the downing of their commercial airliner by USS Vincennes just a few months earlier which claimed nearly 300 lives; the worst action in what was already a period of extremely high tension between the countries, and an action for which the US still has never admitted responsibility nor apologised.


This ^

They down a plane on purpose (there's even video footage of the naval officers high-fiving each other after blowing the Iranian flight out of the air) and never once have to face the consequences. On the other hand the other side down a plane on purpose and its all "evil them" etc... One rule for them and another rule for them, or something.

And if Megrahi was solely responsible for this (if at all) then I'm Daffy Duck.


Absolutely fucking THIS!

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Post #: 27
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 22/5/2012 10:40:39 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1162
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

They down a plane on purpose (there's even video footage of the naval officers high-fiving each other after blowing the Iranian flight out of the air) and never once have to face the consequences. On the other hand the other side down a plane on purpose and its all "evil them" etc... One rule for them and another rule for them, or something.

And if Megrahi was solely responsible for this (if at all) then I'm Daffy Duck.


I'm not convinced the Flight 655 tragedy is the same thing though.

From what I've read on the incident, the plane was mistaken for an Iranian fighter/bomber and shot down in self defence. While there was a disastrous catalogue of errors that day I find it hard to believe they would have knowingly shot down a civilian aeroplane; not least because any marginally politically aware (as military officers have to be) person would be able to foresee the fallout. So while a plane was shot down on purpose, it doesn't follow that the purpose was to shoot down a civilian plane. That makes a huge difference.

It is a case of negligence rather than of malicious intent.

Lockerbie was a different beast. The sole intent of whomever planted the bomb, be that Megrahi or agent/agents unknown, was the destruction of a civilian aircraft and all lives on-board. A cold blooded act of murder.

If we are to put it into legal parlance, the actus reus of the two events were broadly similar, but the mens rea were worlds apart.

That doesn't excuse the US from apologising. But given their attitude on such things it is not in the least surprising they never did.

(in reply to Nexus Wookie)
Post #: 28
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 22/5/2012 11:21:54 AM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 4000
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nexus Wookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron


quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Larry of Arabia

I'm surprised people have such definite opinions of Megrahi and his guilt, from what I've read the case seems to be anything but cut and dried whoever the blame is apportioned to.


Have to agree with this.  From evidence that has since come to light, it does seem like it was a pretty unsafe conviction.  The evidence surrounding the timer and the identity of the person who purchased the clothes in Malta appears to be open to serious question (even though the defence wasn't allowed to do so during the trial).  The more suspicious could be forgiven for thinking that his early release was done more to stop further revelations coming to light during appeals than it was for humanitarian grounds.  That's not necessarily to say that his hands were completely clean, but I think there is reasonable doubt that he had the role that he was accused of.  Particularly when, despite Libya's admission to the UN, some intelligence experts appear to be placing blame back on the original suspects, Iran, in retaliation for the downing of their commercial airliner by USS Vincennes just a few months earlier which claimed nearly 300 lives; the worst action in what was already a period of extremely high tension between the countries, and an action for which the US still has never admitted responsibility nor apologised.


This ^

They down a plane on purpose (there's even video footage of the naval officers high-fiving each other after blowing the Iranian flight out of the air) and never once have to face the consequences. On the other hand the other side down a plane on purpose and its all "evil them" etc... One rule for them and another rule for them, or something.

And if Megrahi was solely responsible for this (if at all) then I'm Daffy Duck.


Absolutely fucking THIS!


+1




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Post #: 29
RE: Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi dies - 22/5/2012 11:42:17 AM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2932
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

They down a plane on purpose (there's even video footage of the naval officers high-fiving each other after blowing the Iranian flight out of the air) and never once have to face the consequences. On the other hand the other side down a plane on purpose and its all "evil them" etc... One rule for them and another rule for them, or something.

And if Megrahi was solely responsible for this (if at all) then I'm Daffy Duck.


I'm not convinced the Flight 655 tragedy is the same thing though.

From what I've read on the incident, the plane was mistaken for an Iranian fighter/bomber and shot down in self defence. While there was a disastrous catalogue of errors that day I find it hard to believe they would have knowingly shot down a civilian aeroplane; not least because any marginally politically aware (as military officers have to be) person would be able to foresee the fallout. So while a plane was shot down on purpose, it doesn't follow that the purpose was to shoot down a civilian plane. That makes a huge difference.

It is a case of negligence rather than of malicious intent.




Flight 655 was part of a bigger picture with tensions between the US and Iran in the Persian Gulf. The US Navy hit Iran very hard and resulted in a crippling blow to Iran Navy.

(in reply to Dpp1978)
Post #: 30
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