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RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round

 
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[Poll]

Hall of Fame: Noirs Round


The Asphalt Jungle (Huston, 1950)
  0% (0)
Blue Velvet (Lynch, 1985)
  30% (7)
Cutter's Way (Passer, 1981)
  4% (1)
Double Indemnity (Wilder, 1944)
  13% (3)
In a Lonely Place (Ray, 1950)
  4% (1)
The Killing (Kubrick, 1956)
  8% (2)
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (Black, 2005)
  4% (1)
Laura (Preminger, 1944)
  4% (1)
The Long Goodbye (Altman, 1973)
  8% (2)
Murder, My Sweet (Dmytryk, 1944)
  8% (2)
Touch of Evil (Welles, 1958)
  0% (0)
Who Framed Roger Rabbit (Zemeckis, 1988)
  13% (3)


Total Votes : 23


(last vote on : 20/9/2012 4:08:45 PM)
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RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 1:46:51 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10444
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca
quote:

Nikkitsu noir
quote:



Isn't it still only a R1 box-set? Sadly it's the kind of thing that can't be nominated because of the money involved.



So it is. Still "Take Aim at the Police Van" or "A Colt is my Passport" would have won the award for best film name in the round

< Message edited by Professor Moriarty -- 30/4/2012 1:47:16 PM >

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 31
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 2:56:34 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54606
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I was going to say The Killers is as well but I just realised I scrolled past that too quickly. Pity - the Siodmak ranks higher for me. 


I jumped to the wrong conclusion too fast too. What a shame, its easily one of my favourite noirs. I also had you down to select a Nikkitsu noir elab, I feel slightly let down in the mainstreamness of your choice


As Rawlinson says, I'd to sideline that very early because of cost as I think a non-American entry would have been interesting. I thought someone might go with Elevator to the Gallows, eg. So I asked what kind of representation classic noir had (in my heart I think the HoF Noir really has to open with one of those) and went with Murder.


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Post #: 32
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 3:20:48 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
I'm kind of glad it worked out the way it did, with a near even split between classic and more modern noir. Originally Harry T. was going to be taking part, but had to pull out because of real world stuff, but if he had been one of the 12 then the split would have been an even 6/6. I asked a couple of people to take part and a few of them voiced similar concerns, that watching 11 other noir films would be a bit overwhelming. And I think it might have been the idea of 11 classic noir, because I doubt many people would have been expecting something like Blue Velvet or Roger Rabbit. And I think having such an even split might encourage more takers the next time a theme round seems limiting. Because I think this actually seems more limiting at first glance than even the Christmas round did. Because for the Christmas round you could have drama, family films, westerns, light comedy, black comedy, animation, shorts, even a summer action film. With noir it just seemed like 40s, b&w, and the mix shows it doesn't have to be that way.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 33
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 3:24:31 PM   
Rebel scum


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To be honest, the themed rounds have been my favourite to follow, just to see the sheer variation that can come from a seemingly limiting theme. Also, it's cool to see classics of the genre mix with more obscure gems, so in the horror round The Exorcist and Suspiria mixed with Deep Red and Session 9. For this round I'd never have thought of Roger Rabbit or Kiss Kiss, but I love them both.

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Post #: 34
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 3:40:14 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54606
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

I'm kind of glad it worked out the way it did, with a near even split between classic and more modern noir. Originally Harry T. was going to be taking part, but had to pull out because of real world stuff, but if he had been one of the 12 then the split would have been an even 6/6. I asked a couple of people to take part and a few of them voiced similar concerns, that watching 11 other noir films would be a bit overwhelming. And I think it might have been the idea of 11 classic noir, because I doubt many people would have been expecting something like Blue Velvet or Roger Rabbit. And I think having such an even split might encourage more takers the next time a theme round seems limiting. Because I think this actually seems more limiting at first glance than even the Christmas round did. Because for the Christmas round you could have drama, family films, westerns, light comedy, black comedy, animation, shorts, even a summer action film. With noir it just seemed like 40s, b&w, and the mix shows it doesn't have to be that way.


That's worryingly close to a stereotype of what noir is and thinking if you've seen one you've seen them all. Or thinking they all need to be constructed with eg a femme fatale front and center, which is bobbins. Especially as some might be doing it from something like Laura which is itself something of an anomaly in the genre as drawing room murder mysteries did not lend themselves to the key genre theme of fate, so there are probably only a handful of others like it. So I'd echo your pleasure at the range of films on show here - but even if you'd stuck to 40s/50s you could go from the sumptious Laura, to the extreme Detour, the rural weirdness of Red House to a straighter pulp like Maltese Falcon. The domestic destruction of Pitfall vs the domestic explosion of Big Heat. The wild Gun Crazy to the beautifully constructed Reckless Moment. The quick and dirty heist film like Desperate vs the complex like The Killing. S'not all about studios enjoying the cost benefits of lower lighting bills. You could argue it's the French influence that's the strongest in noir proper, IMO.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 35
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 3:45:58 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

That's worryingly close to a stereotype of what noir is and thinking if you've seen one you've seen them all. Or thinking they all need to be constructed with eg a femme fatale front and center, which is bobbins.



I agree, but if you're not that familiar with the genre and you're only aware of the most obvious classics, or of the stereotypes most commonly associated with the genre, that is how you're going to think of it. And if you're being asked to not only nominate one yourself, but also to watch 11 others from that genre in the space of 2 months, in some cases maybe having to buy those films before seeing them, I can completely understand why it's offputting. And someone just looking from the outside isn't going to really be able to understand the difference between In a Lonely Place and The Big Sleep without watching them, they're just going to know they're two Bogart films that are being classed as noir. But anyone can look at this list and see that something like Roger Rabbit is worlds away from Double Indemnity, without really having to watch either. And I think that might help open people up for the next time there's a more seemingly restrictive theme round.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 36
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 3:57:40 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54606
Joined: 1/10/2005
As I said, I agreed with your comment about the range of films shown here to disabuse that notion. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 37
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 7:51:51 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
In hindsight, I should have fucking chosen Blade Runner...

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Post #: 38
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 7:54:16 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54606
Joined: 1/10/2005
The Killing's a great choice though - and it'll be interesting to see if any Tarantino fans are watching it for the first time. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 39
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 8:03:51 PM   
nomimalone


Posts: 2866
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Norn Iron
What a fantastic selection of films. Well done, folks! I haven't got a clue what will win.

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Post #: 40
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 8:42:06 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
I didn't realise that Lang directed Laura...

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Post #: 41
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 10:46:30 PM   
Rebenectomy


Posts: 5629
Joined: 20/1/2008
From: 10-0-11-0-0 by 0-2

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

In hindsight, I should have fucking chosen Blade Runner...


Intelligible under the previous noms rule we had for this round.


quote:

I didn't realise that Lang directed Laura


I don't know what you're talking about.

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Post #: 42
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 10:55:57 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
I didn't realise The Asphalt Jungle, Cutter's Way and The Killing all came out in the wrong years.

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Post #: 43
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 11:01:08 PM   
MonsterCat


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Joined: 24/3/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

In hindsight, I should have fucking chosen Blade Runner...


Lucky for me you didn't.

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Post #: 44
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 30/4/2012 11:09:24 PM   
Rebenectomy


Posts: 5629
Joined: 20/1/2008
From: 10-0-11-0-0 by 0-2
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

I didn't realise The Asphalt Jungle, Cutter's Way and The Killing all came out in the wrong years.


Ah fuck me, what can I say I was tired. They're right on the images though.

Edit: Except for The Killing, that is a year out. Balls.

< Message edited by Rebenectomy -- 30/4/2012 11:13:05 PM >


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Post #: 45
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 2:10:07 AM   
paul_ie86


Posts: 11422
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From: Chelsea Hotel #2
Found a couple of the nominations on netflix
Blue Velvet
The Long Goodbye

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Post #: 46
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 12:49:27 PM   
Rebel scum


Posts: 3483
Joined: 2/1/2006
I've posted comments on some in the Top 100 films thread, but I'll put 1-sentence thoughts here too.

Asphalt Jungle-Improved on rewatch, great example of classic noir. Awesome side character: Sam Joffe as Doc.

Double Indemnity-Lost something for me but it's still a brilliant movie with noir's best femme fetale. Awesome side character: Edward G Robinson as Keyes.

Laura-Great fun, and a great murder mystery to boot, plot still fantastic, don't pass up this opportunity to get Vincent Price in the HoF. Awesome side character: Clifton James as Waldo

Murder, My Sweet-Starts slow but picks up, main character's a lot of fun, great ending. Awesome side character: There isn't really one, but Miles Mander as Mr Grayle is good.

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Post #: 47
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 12:54:51 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54606
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I think where I disagree on Double Indemnity is that the dialogue/work at the start is among the best in cinema - the meeting and the repartee between Walter and Phyllis is breathtakingly quick, the coverage of the towel, the speed limit allusions. It's gorgeous stuff in the language of Chandler framed by Wilder into a sexual spat.

Ditto on Jaffe - he was this close to pulling Asphalt into my noir list. And why isn't the broken down Esther Howard awesome?


< Message edited by elab49 -- 1/5/2012 12:56:11 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to Rebel scum)
Post #: 48
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 1:00:51 PM   
Rebel scum


Posts: 3483
Joined: 2/1/2006
I think that the scene's one of the weaker in the film because the rest of the film is much better. In terms of dialogue, the scene where Keyes points out how it can't be suicide trumps that early moment. Even in terms of moments between Walter and Phyllis, I prefer the second meeting in the market. Compared to those great moments, it comes off as weaker, though it's still alright if viewed in isolation from the rest.

Part of my disappointment in the film is due to it previously being in my all-time top 10. This rewatch has knocked it down to at least the bottom half of my 100.

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Post #: 49
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 1:05:25 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54606
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It's the 2nd Wilder in my top 15. I hate people picking films I might have to rank above my own entry 

But I do tend to go with the idea that the relationahip between Walter and Barton Keyes is the heart of the film, not Walter and Phyllis.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 50
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 1:07:14 PM   
Rebel scum


Posts: 3483
Joined: 2/1/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
And why isn't the broken down Esther Howard awesome?



To be honest, I can't remember who she was. My measure of an awesome support character is one who gets all the best lines, and improves a scene just by turning up in it. There wasn't really anyone like that in Murder, My Sweet.

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Post #: 51
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 1:08:59 PM   
Rebel scum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

But I do tend to go with the idea that the relationahip between Walter and Barton Keyes is the heart of the film, not Walter and Phyllis.



I totally agree, especially once Walter finds the recording Keyes makes about him. They're both such good actors that they effortlessly make it seem like they've known each other for years.

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Post #: 52
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 1:37:37 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54606
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel scum


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
And why isn't the broken down Esther Howard awesome?



To be honest, I can't remember who she was. My measure of an awesome support character is one who gets all the best lines, and improves a scene just by turning up in it. There wasn't really anyone like that in Murder, My Sweet.


My awesome tends to be performance - which I guess is partly improves a scene, but I think there's a lot more depth to it than that.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to Rebel scum)
Post #: 53
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 2:32:20 PM   
Rebel scum


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Joined: 2/1/2006
Ah, I see. Still, if we're talking a great supporting performance in Murder My Sweet, I'd still give it to Mander.

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Post #: 54
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 1/5/2012 3:22:48 PM   
Rebel scum


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Joined: 2/1/2006
Who Framed Roger Rabbit-Loads of fun, works surprisingly well as a noir, I reckon this could be a potential dark horse. Awesome side character: The animated taxi.

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Post #: 55
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 2/5/2012 7:47:32 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
I picked up the Touch of Evil bluray earlier this year, so that worked out neatly.

Having got it off the shelf, I then spent a while working out which frickin version to watch. The original theatrical version? The "preview version"? The reconstructed version from 1998? And then, once I'd decided on a year, I then had to choose between aspect ratios! Would the widescreen version cut bits off the top and bottom, or would the 1:1.37 version cut bits off the sides? DECISIONS.

I eventually decided on the theatrical version, widescreen. It's good, yeah. I wasn't blown away by it, I'm going to be honest. A solid 4 out of 5. Heston is the least convincing Mexican ever. And I was disappointed that, after the car explodes at the start, he didn't drop to his knees and pound the earth, screaming, "YOU MANIACS. YOU BLEW IT UP".


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Post #: 56
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 2/5/2012 7:59:45 PM   
Rhubarb


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Four?????

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Post #: 57
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 2/5/2012 8:08:58 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Yeah, I liked it, and would watch it again, but it didn't break into five star territory for me.

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Post #: 58
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 2/5/2012 8:33:42 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54606
Joined: 1/10/2005
It's got Heston - that's gotta be a star off at least, sadly. Sounds like the Blu Ray is the BR version of my 50th Anniversary Edition, although I don't think mine offered AR choices. With the bright gold box, though, it means it's easy to find. My first viewing was Cutter's Way - I can't see that not being in my top 6.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 59
RE: Hall of Fame: Noirs Round - 2/5/2012 8:54:58 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
They all comment on how he doesn't look or sound like a Mexican, and then....nothing. No further explanation. 

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Post #: 60
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