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RE: The Avengers (2012) - 8/5/2012 8:02:18 PM   
KeithM


Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
Dang, Hell must have indeed frozen over, KeithM and Adambatman82 are agreeing on something! Hope all is well Keith my old sparring partner, haven't seen you around for a while. ;)


Um. What did we 'spar' over? Watchmen? Superman Returns? I lose track...

The internet - and the negativity that seemingly goes with it - wears me out after a while, so I take it in small doses, take a break, small dose, etc.

I figured a movie as good as the Avengers might be a good time to visit ye olde Empire forums again, because, surely, the negativity this time must be relatively scarce. But no, still no pleasing some. :sigh:


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Post #: 331
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 8/5/2012 8:04:32 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

And you guys really taking me to task for saying SMASH, something which is in the film and which plenty of people have used for shorthand for the action in the film?


Nope, not at all, it was more the way in which it read when sat alongside the rest of your post, which came across as pretty dissenting in tone. Thats all.

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Post #: 332
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 8/5/2012 8:22:05 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Look let me apologise Adam - I can't believe we were joking about this thread kicking off and we were the ones to do it.

See apologises on an internet site! Miracles do happen!

Now onto The Avengers...I did really enjoy it. Have seen it twice now, and think it worked better the second time. I did feel the first act was a little shaky, but character work helps it along.

In terms of commenting on what didn't work quite as well...isn't that what is so fun about film reviews? Keith is suggesting that I am being negative - I would disagree. I think 11 pages of praise (including from myself) sets out that the film is good/great.

But isn't it interesting to look at what worked/didn't work and why? I don't think that is being negative.

For instance, I believe that Inception is one of the great science fiction films of recent years. Doesn't stop me from talking about why the ski chase doesn't quite work in the third act.

Talking of Nolan, I love Batman Begins, but I also enjoy discussing the third act flaws and how it changes the character of Batman.

Likewise for the Avengers, a film I really liked, I feel it is interesting to discuss why this alien invasion somehow works despite the aliens having similar depth to those in TF3 or Battle: LA? The answer is because of the heroes and the action.

Yes, we use styled language, and yes it is supposed to get debate going. But I am not being negative for the sake of it, nor am I insulting anyone who disagrees.

I conceed the point about where the nuke was going Adam, but maybe still feel it was about closing down the plot more than a natural escalation of events.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 8/5/2012 8:28:41 PM >


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Post #: 333
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 8/5/2012 8:28:23 PM   
KeithM


Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008
I think the phrase 'damning with faint praise' comes to mind in some of the comments rather than outright negativity. I see lots of "good not great, although I laughed my arse off and had a fantastic time at the cinema" type comments. Almost as if qualifying liking it so much - "please don't take my film snob credentials away - I still don't regard "joy" as a valid emotion really"

Don't take it personally, I just used your comments about some of the 'plot discrepancies' to explain a few things to those who may have missed them amongst all the SMASHING.

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Post #: 334
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 8/5/2012 8:29:49 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
Ha! I am the guy who sings the praises of Universial Solider 3. Trust me, if I enjoy it, I enjoy it.

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Post #: 335
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 9/5/2012 6:39:53 AM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5102
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM

I think the phrase 'damning with faint praise' comes to mind in some of the comments rather than outright negativity. I see lots of "good not great, although I laughed my arse off and had a fantastic time at the cinema" type comments. Almost as if qualifying liking it so much - "please don't take my film snob credentials away - I still don't regard "joy" as a valid emotion really"


Or maybe they just genuinely thought it was good but not great although they laughed their arse off and had a fantastic time at the cinema?


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Post #: 336
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 9/5/2012 10:21:56 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54616
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM

I think the phrase 'damning with faint praise' comes to mind in some of the comments rather than outright negativity. I see lots of "good not great, although I laughed my arse off and had a fantastic time at the cinema" type comments. Almost as if qualifying liking it so much - "please don't take my film snob credentials away - I still don't regard "joy" as a valid emotion really"

Don't take it personally, I just used your comments about some of the 'plot discrepancies' to explain a few things to those who may have missed them amongst all the SMASHING.


Isn't that instinctive though? If you're putting it into your favourite films ever list, e.g., you're thinking through why it's lower than this one or that one. Some other great big fun film might be even higher as it hit the notes more consistently e.g. I don't see why some straw man nonsense about 'film snob's needs to come into it.

Love is not blind, after all. And while you can be carried along by spectacle or something else on first viewing, the come down afterwards might focus on other aspects, as will rewatches. It's entirely normal for your view of films to change on different viewings in positive or negative ways and that viewing is just as valid in determining your long term view of the film as the first rush of adrenalin, it might even explain the mechanics that caused it. This is bog all to do with being a 'film snob' - god, I loathe that phrase. IMO it's one of the most pointlessly dismissive on the site.


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Post #: 337
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 9/5/2012 10:41:09 AM   
Wild about Wilder


Posts: 1662
Joined: 9/4/2010
From: Hertfordshire
Totally agree RE the Vision allways wanted Jim Parsons or Doug Jones till the event happened & automatically went for him.

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Post #: 338
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 9/5/2012 10:59:16 AM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9210
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Awesome movie, great summer blockbuster fun. Just behind John Carter and Battleship for me, been a great year for blockbusters so far!

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Post #: 339
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 9/5/2012 2:05:04 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2180
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


quote:

ORIGINAL: KeithM

I think the phrase 'damning with faint praise' comes to mind in some of the comments rather than outright negativity. I see lots of "good not great, although I laughed my arse off and had a fantastic time at the cinema" type comments. Almost as if qualifying liking it so much - "please don't take my film snob credentials away - I still don't regard "joy" as a valid emotion really"


Or maybe they just genuinely thought it was good but not great although they laughed their arse off and had a fantastic time at the cinema?



Keith's (made me think of Stella Street's "Keeeff!") comment did make me raise an eyebrow. There were certain highlights for me but overall it didn't hit the heights of greatness that I expected. Which is not meant as a back-handed compliment and certainly not meant that I didn't want to admit to liking it more. Which is a slightly nonsensical suggestion. I didn't go into the film nor come out of it thinking begrudgingly "I really don't like that I enjoyed it". I wanted to enjoy it quite a bit, it just didn't hit the right notes for me. But then I wasn't immediately taken with Thor upon first viewing. However as I'm going to see Assemble a Better Title again on Friday I may feel differently. Going by my first viewing, I'll go with horribleive's appraisal minus the "fantastic time" bit.


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Isn't that instinctive though? If you're putting it into your favourite films ever list, e.g., you're thinking through why it's lower than this one or that one. Some other great big fun film might be even higher as it hit the notes more consistently e.g. I don't see why some straw man nonsense about 'film snob's needs to come into it.

Love is not blind, after all. And while you can be carried along by spectacle or something else on first viewing, the come down afterwards might focus on other aspects, as will rewatches. It's entirely normal for your view of films to change on different viewings in positive or negative ways and that viewing is just as valid in determining your long term view of the film as the first rush of adrenalin, it might even explain the mechanics that caused it. This is bog all to do with being a 'film snob' - god, I loathe that phrase. IMO it's one of the most pointlessly dismissive on the site.


Move over Ahab, Elab's on the hunt! I have to agree with Elab here about the "come down" from a film. I felt exactly the same after I came out of the cinema. There was just something missing that I don't experience when watching Iron Man or Thor. I probably felt some of the dialogue was a little bit too jarring and too 'Whedonesque' for my liking which took me out of the film a bit. Trying to be a bit too clever and witty for its own sake. But..Marvel's Avenger Initiative did hinge on the success of this film and I'm glad it's done so well. If this film had taken the proverbial swan dive off a skyscraper then it would have negatively impacted on the subsequent solo films and put a potential Avengers sequel in a very precarious situation. There's also some deleted scenes, I know some/all have to do with Steve Rogers and he was one of my favourites in the film so again, there's scope for a change of view. And I'm not so intransigent that I'd refuse to have my mind changed (or rather opinion!).

< Message edited by Emyr Thy King -- 9/5/2012 2:18:39 PM >


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Post #: 340
RE: The Avengers (2012) - 9/5/2012 2:26:03 PM   
KeithM


Posts: 862
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

This is bog all to do with being a 'film snob' - god, I loathe that phrase. IMO it's one of the most pointlessly dismissive on the site.



If the point was to elicit a response, then it worked.

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Post #: 341
Avengers - 10/5/2012 9:11:42 AM   
trueborndjross

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Kirkcaldy
The best action movie of the year so far without a doubt. This is pretty much a full on thrill ride the whole way through and only pauses for breath at one brief moment in the film. All the various characters are introduced neatly and fairly quickly and before you know it we're off! Every character seems to get a fair share of the film and I was surprised at how big a role Black Widow gets (not complaining mind given who fills the PVC suit!). Great action scenes and the tone is absolutely spot on littlered with little comic moments (Hulk doing a little side punch at Thor had me in stiches). Usual complaint about the 3D being too dark but it was done well with some impressive sections (notably Iron Man flying between the buildings). Looking forward to the next one.

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Post #: 342
Avengers - 10/5/2012 9:11:45 AM   
trueborndjross

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Kirkcaldy
The best action movie of the year so far without a doubt. This is pretty much a full on thrill ride the whole way through and only pauses for breath at one brief moment in the film. All the various characters are introduced neatly and fairly quickly and before you know it we're off! Every character seems to get a fair share of the film and I was surprised at how big a role Black Widow gets (not complaining mind given who fills the PVC suit!). Great action scenes and the tone is absolutely spot on littlered with little comic moments (Hulk doing a little side punch at Thor had me in stiches). Usual complaint about the 3D being too dark but it was done well with some impressive sections (notably Iron Man flying between the buildings). Looking forward to the next one.

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Post #: 343
grin fest - 11/5/2012 2:08:27 PM   
a123matt


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/1/2008
Edgar Wright recently tweeted about doing his top 10 Best films and then his top 10 Favourite films. The Avengers wouldn't get into my top 10 best films but my oh my it gets into my top 10 favourite films every day of the week! I have never cheered and clapped in a cinema and never will (i am English!) but this is the closest I have ever come to doing so. Very funny, great action, good acting, some really nice direction and editing (i love the internal car shot where it gets flipped in an explosion). All in all a joy to behold. Bravo

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Post #: 344
A-MA-ZING. - 12/5/2012 11:29:18 AM   
YouWillBeUnprepared

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 20/2/2012
I felt a rare feeling of sadness and lonelyness once exiting the theatre. Action movies barely deliver the level of quality in all genre-aspects such as comedy, romance, action, graphics, suspense, and so on, unlike 'Avengers Assemble', which promises more than a bareable and enjoyable expirience, but the thirst to see it again and again. Films like these are rare, the kind that will keep you occupied for more than a while, until the sequel that follows, which thanks to its predeseccor, will be just as enjoyable.

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Post #: 345
RE: A-MA-ZING. - 12/5/2012 9:33:54 PM   
musht


Posts: 1881
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland
THIS WAS AWESOME!!!!

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Post #: 346
RE: A-MA-ZING. - 12/5/2012 11:05:30 PM   
white mage

 

Posts: 181
Joined: 29/11/2007
From: Hollow Bastion
Great movie, lives up to the hype and anticipation, great acting all round, amazing special effects and the Hulk steals the show

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Post #: 347
RE: A-MA-ZING. - 12/5/2012 11:08:03 PM   
white mage

 

Posts: 181
Joined: 29/11/2007
From: Hollow Bastion
Great movie, well lives up to the hype and anticipation, superb acting all round from the cast, amazing special effects and the Hulk definatly stole the show

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Post #: 348
RE: A-MA-ZING. - 12/5/2012 11:11:19 PM   
white mage

 

Posts: 181
Joined: 29/11/2007
From: Hollow Bastion
It posted twice, sorry guys, service error my ass!

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Post #: 349
RE: A-MA-ZING. - 13/5/2012 2:51:20 PM   
NCC1701A


Posts: 4462
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From: Space Dock
Great fun from start to finish.

5/5

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Post #: 350
WTF - why only 4 stars EMPIRE???????? - 14/5/2012 9:04:01 AM   
Gillhead


Posts: 30
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Switzerland
Empire awarded Superman Returns 5 stars – ok admittedly I am a sucker for Superman movies and nostalgia and probably would have given it 5! But only 4 stars for Avengers Assemble – are you completely out of your minds at Empire? Who the hell is vetting the quality and consistency of your movie reviews – the Warner Brothers board? I’m also huge fan of The Dark Knight, a justifiable 5 star rating in my opinion –so I really hope you apply some level of consistency when you award the star rating to TDK rises, in comparison to the star rating to Avengers Assemble.

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Post #: 351
RE: Avengers Assemble - 14/5/2012 11:13:34 AM   
rksst228

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 14/5/2012
I saw it last week and I find it amazing. 4.5 stars out of 5.

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Post #: 352
RE: WTF - why only 4 stars EMPIRE???????? - 14/5/2012 12:44:11 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5102
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gillhead

Empire awarded Superman Returns 5 stars – ok admittedly I am a sucker for Superman movies and nostalgia and probably would have given it 5! But only 4 stars for Avengers Assemble – are you completely out of your minds at Empire? Who the hell is vetting the quality and consistency of your movie reviews – the Warner Brothers board? I’m also huge fan of The Dark Knight, a justifiable 5 star rating in my opinion –so I really hope you apply some level of consistency when you award the star rating to TDK rises, in comparison to the star rating to Avengers Assemble.


Fuck the movie - the TDKR review thread will be the highlight of the summer.

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Post #: 353
RE: Avengers Assemble - 14/5/2012 12:49:31 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gillhead

Empire awarded Superman Returns 5 stars – ok admittedly I am a sucker for Superman movies and nostalgia and probably would have given it 5! But only 4 stars for Avengers Assemble – are you completely out of your minds at Empire? Who the hell is vetting the quality and consistency of your movie reviews – the Warner Brothers board? I’m also huge fan of The Dark Knight, a justifiable 5 star rating in my opinion –so I really hope you apply some level of consistency when you award the star rating to TDK rises, in comparison to the star rating to Avengers Assemble.


How the hell do you get upset over a positive review for this film? Good lord.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 14/5/2012 12:51:25 PM >


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Post #: 354
RE: Avengers Assemble - 14/5/2012 1:26:22 PM   
blackduck


Posts: 1604
Joined: 1/10/2005
Awesome from beginning to end.

There were so many things that could have gone wrong with this movie even if it had just turned out ok it would have been one hell of an achivement.

No character felt short changed (well maybe Thor slightly but he does get one of the best lines on the movie) even characters we initally don't care about manage to hold thier own against the big names. the plot is fairly straight forward but it didn't need to be any smarter than it was, this was about getting them to assemble , they assembled, job done.

I only have two minor quibbles
1. where was war machine? didn't miss him or owt, but he was a sizable part of ironman 2?
2. Would have been nice if Nick Fury had got his honking great battleship into the fight.

Avengers is one of the best examples of how a big dumb action movie doesn't have to be stupid. That it can have character and plot without having to be Shakespeare,

And it also has Loki giving the best. insult, ever.

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Post #: 355
RE: Avengers Assemble - 14/5/2012 1:26:31 PM   
blackduck


Posts: 1604
Joined: 1/10/2005
Damm double posting.

Well seeing as I'm here

The Hulk was amazing, finally someone nailed it perfect.

< Message edited by blackduck -- 14/5/2012 1:30:11 PM >


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Post #: 356
DOWNEYJR'S BEST FILM - 15/5/2012 12:39:45 AM   
Ciaran McDaid

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 16/10/2011
Brilliant superhero movie!!!

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Post #: 357
RE: DOWNEYJR'S BEST FILM - 16/5/2012 8:48:12 PM   
Keyser Sozzled


Posts: 5999
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Dublin
Saw it last night.

Firstly I fucking HATED the 3D. I had been on the fence until last night and only went cos they weren't showing it in 2D.

Past that, I thought each character was given ample time to strut their stuff. I liked the juxtaposition between Cap and Stark, the simialrty of Thor and Hulk etc...There were a few pacing problems for me but the last 30 mins is the reason that the cinema can be so much fun.

Hulk steals the show, although Hawkeye was great (after being made redundant for an hour or so). Best line for me was probably the "Are you an Alien" piece and the best visual moment was obviously Hulk v Loki, at which point I snorted fanta out my nose whilst howling with laughter.

All in all 4/5

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Post #: 358
RE: DOWNEYJR'S BEST FILM - 16/5/2012 8:48:19 PM   
Keyser Sozzled


Posts: 5999
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Dublin
Saw it last night.

Firstly I fucking HATED the 3D. I had been on the fence until last night and only went cos they weren't showing it in 2D.

Past that, I thought each character was given ample time to strut their stuff. I liked the juxtaposition between Cap and Stark, the simialrty of Thor and Hulk etc...There were a few pacing problems for me but the last 30 mins is the reason that the cinema can be so much fun.

Hulk steals the show, although Hawkeye was great (after being made redundant for an hour or so). Best line for me was probably the "Are you an Alien" piece and the best visual moment was obviously Hulk v Loki, at which point I snorted fanta out my nose whilst howling with laughter.

All in all 4/5

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Post #: 359
RE: DOWNEYJR'S BEST FILM - 17/5/2012 12:46:23 PM   
BelfastBoy

 

Posts: 587
Joined: 30/11/2005
This is a quote from a product placement blog article elsewhere on this site:

"US audiences are also treated to a much-rumoured second post-credit scene which shows the team enjoying the dish which, for Tony Stark's information, is slices of spiced chicken served with warm pitta and a variety of sauces."

Is this true or a joke on the part of the writer?


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Post #: 360
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