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Race issues: Is the media too black and white.

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Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 12/4/2012 8:33:19 PM   
Kilo_T_Mortal


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This stems a little from what I read in another thread but it got me thinking to my school days in Leicester. Okay I'll say this right off the bat Leicester is a little unusual in terms of cities in England (but by no means unique). Most of us who went to school in Leicester in and a round the 90s (maybe before) were in a class of approximately an even split between south Asians and Caucasians. We used to play blacks (south Asians) versus whites at football (just to clarify this was a school boy errand of splitting the teams quickly so we could get in 20-30 minutes of football with the minimum of fuss). Sorry I don't want this to turn in an autobiography. Anyway the point was that we had a good mix in schools of black people, south Asians and white people. It wasn't really an issues until puberty, when the south Asians suddenly started fighting amongst a Pakistan/Indian divide. The black kids (afro-Caribbean) staid out of this mainly but any fight after school was generally to do with these two groups having a fight. A bit later on I would go out into Leicester and the racial divide was much more between south Asians and black people. People from around the south Asian region (India/Pakistan) had a huge problem with black people. This was a big thing amongst taxi drivers, take away owners ect.

The point of this whole thing is, do you think that racism is viewed as too black and white and (especially in Britain) the real problems are between competing (at least traditionally seen as) immigrating communities? Or is the focus on the BNP correct?

I wonder this as my own experience, as a white guy and being a nice white guy in Leicester, of racism was normally a problem with other races not getting along? Or is this an unbalanced view based or purely anecdotal evidence?

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 12/4/2012 9:06:44 PM   
Super Hans


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 It definitely seems to be the EDL/BNP, whites being racist against non-whites that gets most of the headlines, of course racial tensions exist between many ethnicities. And even in the white/non-white racism, you see enough white people taking stick from other ethincities - I remember an Indian guy a year above me at school who I sort of hung around with by default sometimes because he was pally with a friend from a couple of doors down (also Indian), he was really quite racist towards whites on numerous occasions. I also remember being told, quite aggressively by a bunch of Asian guys to "fuck off home" on a school trip to Alton Towers!

Anyway, don't want to make that sound like a honky's rant about racist Asian people because it really isn't, just my own experiences highlighting that racism isn't all about whites abusing non-whites. From living in Wembley for a couple of years, I also had, for example, Asian barbers making snide comments about the number of Somalis living there nowdays - something I wouldn't even have picked up on. I totally agree with groups like the BNP being given shit in the media, but you're quite right, racial tension exists between races and communities.



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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 12/4/2012 9:45:18 PM   
JessFranco


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From: London
 The real battle isn't against neo-Nazis or sections of immigrant communities, it's against the structures (political, corporate, educational, etc, etc) that perpetuate racism and other forms of bigotry. In that sense, a primary focus on the dominant white, heterosexual men makes sense.

Prejudice clearly extends a lot further, though. The amount of enmity between some Africans and Afro-Caribbeans would probably shock a lot of people.


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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/4/2012 8:38:49 AM   
Fanboyslayer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JessFranco

Prejudice clearly extends a lot further, though. The amount of enmity between some Africans and Afro-Caribbeans would probably shock a lot of people.



That was the main issue in my school back in the 90's too. The things the kids who had African parents were called by the kids that were of Afro-Caribbean parents were really shocking. No one wanted to admit that they were of African descent and the Jamaican colours were worn by most of the black guys in my school whether their families were from there or not. Ragga musics popularity at the time was probably helpful in that way as well as the whole hip hop afro centric thing kind of past us by in South London it seemed so the pride in African roots didn't really happen in my school. It was all about Jamaica, string vests and ragga. Never came across any white on black racism in my school but we were very mixed. That's not to say there wasn't any just don't think anyone would have dared express it if they did feel that way at least not on school grounds.




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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/4/2012 1:22:46 PM   
great_badir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fanboyslayer
quote:

ORIGINAL: JessFranco

Prejudice clearly extends a lot further, though. The amount of enmity between some Africans and Afro-Caribbeans would probably shock a lot of people.



That was the main issue in my school back in the 90's too. The things the kids who had African parents were called by the kids that were of Afro-Caribbean parents were really shocking. No one wanted to admit that they were of African descent and the Jamaican colours were worn by most of the black guys in my school whether their families were from there or not. Ragga musics popularity at the time was probably helpful in that way as well as the whole hip hop afro centric thing kind of past us by in South London it seemed so the pride in African roots didn't really happen in my school. It was all about Jamaica, string vests and ragga. Never came across any white on black racism in my school but we were very mixed. That's not to say there wasn't any just don't think anyone would have dared express it if they did feel that way at least not on school grounds.


Indeed.

I can't remember who it was (someone famous), but they once said "racism isn't about black and white" - it exists between different (non-white) African countries, provinces in China (although I guess that's more of a class thing), France and Italy (wherein huge swathes of those countries in particular, racism is still a non-shocking aspect of those societies) and, let us not forget, our own green lands where the whole Englishman, Irishman, Welshman and Scotsman thing sometimes goes way beyond being a set-up for a shit joke.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/4/2012 1:27:46 PM   
elab49


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I know this is a bugbear of mine - but semantically isn't a lot of this xenophobia, not racism? It frankly confused matters, IMO, when the race relations legislation started defining racism based on national origin, which is bog all to do with race.

Sorry. It's just it bugs me.


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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/4/2012 1:37:58 PM   
great_badir


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 You may be partly right, elab, but, using my examples, I don't think it can be applied to the French, Italians or us Brits - I don't think there's any fear of "others" on the part of the French and there certainly isn't when it comes to some Italians (one of my best mate's hails from Rome and, whilst he isn't racist [having moved to the UK from a very young age and brought up in a very diverse part of Bristol], a good chunk of Romans are very definitely racist and not xenophobic). And I daresay that, those Brits that do have a "problem" with Brits from "other parts" of Britain, again, it probably has nothing to do with xenophobia.

On the other hand, when it comes to some of the African nations, North Korea and mainland China, it almost certainly is xenophobia.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/4/2012 1:51:30 PM   
elab49


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But isn't xenophobia closer to defining it by national boundaries than racism? I remain utterly baffled that any Scot or English person can use race legislation against each other.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/4/2012 1:56:07 PM   
JessFranco


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From: London
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I know this is a bugbear of mine - but semantically isn't a lot of this xenophobia, not racism? It frankly confused matters, IMO, when the race relations legislation started defining racism based on national origin, which is bog all to do with race.

Sorry. It's just it bugs me.



Race is kind of a fiction, though, at least in the sense that people tend to use it. Are Slavs racially distinct from Western Europeans? Are Italians from the south racially distinct from Italians from the North? Are West Africans racially distinct from Central Africans? Are Bosnians racially distinct from Croats? In reality there's almost as many perspectives are there are people. Taking prejudice based on racial and national origin together can help cut through that.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/4/2012 2:00:22 PM   
elab49


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Then ignore the 'race' part entirely? I know it's a semantic thing - but that Scotland/England thing really ticked me off.

(And by that I think it boils down to someone's colour, someone's look or where someone comes from).

< Message edited by elab49 -- 13/4/2012 2:01:17 PM >

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/4/2012 3:34:55 PM   
great_badir


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From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
but that Scotland/England thing really ticked me off.


Well, not Scotch-land but, a(n English) friend of mine lives in Ireland (couldn't tell you where - not visited since he moved and I can't tell you off the top of my head), and his next door neighbour hates the English. And there's no phobia about it - it's very definitely a race (or, if we are applying "race" to one's skin colour, then nationality) thing.

This same friend is normally a very laid back approachable guy and gets on with everyone, but he said there's an extreme Love Thy Neighbour vibe between him and this guy and, last time I spoke to him, he said he wished Cromwell had been a bit more thorough (which you could argue is itself a racist statement, but that's how the whole thing has made him think and feel).

EDIT - what I forgot to include was that my mate feels like he is at the receiving end of racism.

< Message edited by great_badir -- 13/4/2012 3:40:14 PM >

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/4/2012 4:37:04 PM   
spamandham

 

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 6:41:49 PM   
Gravitas

 

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Interesting observations from the OP. It is interesting how people always assume racism is just something whites do. But obviously Asians are far worse than whites when it comes to racism (or homophobia for that matter).

Mind you these days no one is quite sure what racism is.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 6:49:48 PM   
matty_b


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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 6:51:10 PM   
Shifty Bench


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Using a few gifs today, I see, Matty

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 6:52:31 PM   
matty_b


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 It's the only way I can express my disbelief at today's postings.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 6:53:34 PM   
Deviation


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 It's the best way to counter this I'm afraid.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 6:54:17 PM   
Shifty Bench


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Well.......it is Thursday......

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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
You have a nice face, Shifty. A face I would have a cup of tea with.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 6:58:37 PM   
Deviation


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 Tbh, I think he has a modicum of a point in his question of what today constitutes as racism (Is, for example, a Serbian hating an Albanian or vice-versa racism or xenophobia, etc).

The rest is nothing but disbelief gif worthy.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 13/9/2012 6:59:19 PM >

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 6:58:51 PM   
matty_b


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 Shit, you're right.

And we haven't had one for a good while.

Oh boy...

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 6:59:20 PM   
sanchia


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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 7:00:35 PM   
Deviation


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 I blame Kilo for starting this thread.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 7:09:12 PM   
Hood_Man


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Well.......it is Thursday......

See? See? Regular Empire Thursdays, just as I promised in my campaign for Mod 2012!

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 7:11:05 PM   
Shifty Bench


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Did you create a new poster just to keep to your campaign promises, Hood Man?


(joking, Mods)

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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
You have a nice face, Shifty. A face I would have a cup of tea with.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 7:15:38 PM   
Hood_Man


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Did you create a new poster just to keep to your campaign promises, Hood Man?


(joking, Mods)

In the words of my political hero George Galloway:

"No comment!"

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 7:16:48 PM   
Shifty Bench


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I still say Thursdays are best when they just happen........

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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
You have a nice face, Shifty. A face I would have a cup of tea with.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 7:18:10 PM   
MonsterCat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gravitas

But obviously Asians are far worse than whites when it comes to racism (or homophobia for that matter).



Yikes.

quote:



Mind you these days no one is quite sure what racism is.



I have no idea what this means.

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 7:21:35 PM   
Harry Tuttle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gravitas

Interesting observations from the OP. It is interesting how people always assume racism is just something whites do. But obviously Asians are far worse than whites when it comes to racism (or homophobia for that matter).

Mind you these days no one is quite sure what racism is.




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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 7:22:15 PM   
Deviation


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 I like the idea that Asians are one group and don't have whites among them.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 13/9/2012 7:23:41 PM >

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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RE: Race issues: Is the media too black and white. - 13/9/2012 7:22:28 PM   
Hood_Man


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench



I still say Thursdays are best when they just happen........

The best ones are definitely the ones that come out of nowhere The "Fuck" lamb moment is my most recent favourite, it was just so surreal how out of hand it got!

This kinda feels like sitting in school watching the snow falling and getting your hopes up, only to then realise it's not sticking

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