RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison?

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 11/4/2012 5:08:57 PM

boaby

Posts: 2786
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief
... but can you get done for calling Thatcher a Tory bitch?

The majority north of Watford would be in jail.

Bit much getting jailed for slagging someone. Granted some things are a no-no. Still, a lad gets jailed for racially abusive language while the BNP can run for office? Ridiculous, no?

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Post #: 121

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 11/4/2012 5:12:26 PM

elab49

Posts: 51544
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebenectomy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

I'm thinking, you can get charged for calling someone a fenian so-and-so at a football game but can you get done for calling Thatcher a Tory bitch?

Hmmm, arguably, could attaching the term 'bitch' not add a sexist element to the abuse? Certainly I know a fair few women's groups who would object to the term regardless of the type of person it's aimed at.

I don't think there's an aggravated charge based on sexism? Which presumably means gender per se is no longer something regarded as needing specific protections in that context - just the legal protections in eg workforce legislation.

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Post #: 122

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 11/4/2012 5:20:30 PM

Rebenectomy

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Yeah I was curious throughout all this talk or race, religion, homophobia et al, that there hasn't been any mention of legal implications of gender based abuse. Some of the things you see directed at various women on twitter are far from pleasant, while just a few weeks back I was reading an article about the various threats made to feminist bloggers. I suppose the ongoing abuse and threats would fall under general harassment laws, but casual, occasional comments with a gender slur attached aren't protected under any special law.

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Post #: 123

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 11/4/2012 5:24:22 PM

elab49

Posts: 51544
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No. Just, as you say, 'general' abuse.

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Post #: 124

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 12/4/2012 8:52:22 AM

Chief

Posts: 7008
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: The Kingdom, Scotland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

I'm thinking, you can get charged for calling someone a fenian so-and-so at a football game but can you get done for calling Thatcher a Tory bitch?

Yeah but there's a religious aspect to calling one a Fenian these days, plus all the hoo-ha surrounding it.

Yeah, which is why I asked:

quote:

Is there a political equivalent of bigotry? Like, hating someone for their political beliefs instead of religious beliefs?

Would that then put the anti-Tory slur on the same level as the anti-catholic one in terms of a punishable offence? Or is it okay to be vocal in your hatred for one group of people but not another?

It's off at a tangent but I'm sure there's a point there somewhere.

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Post #: 125

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 12/4/2012 10:37:59 AM

superdan

Posts: 7200
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

I'm thinking, you can get charged for calling someone a fenian so-and-so at a football game but can you get done for calling Thatcher a Tory bitch?

Yeah but there's a religious aspect to calling one a Fenian these days, plus all the hoo-ha surrounding it.

Yeah, which is why I asked:

quote:

Is there a political equivalent of bigotry? Like, hating someone for their political beliefs instead of religious beliefs?

Would that then put the anti-Tory slur on the same level as the anti-catholic one in terms of a punishable offence? Or is it okay to be vocal in your hatred for one group of people but not another?

It's off at a tangent but I'm sure there's a point there somewhere.

I think politicians of every stripe are fair game. They're pretty much all venal cunts.

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Post #: 126

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 12/4/2012 1:03:38 PM

great_badir

Posts: 4172
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle

The celebration of Thatcher's death (which I, for one, WILL be quietly celebrating) came up in discussion in the British Politics Thread a while ago, and the conversation then followed much the same route as this one (albeit without the whole racism and sexism angle, obviously).

The reason Thacther in particular is hated (and I mean proper hated - almost the type of hate generally reserved for savage dictators) is because at least 75% of the stuff she did was of HER OWN PERSONAL DESIGN and often not done by committee, as most party decisions are. By the end of her "rule", most of her cabinet merely did what they were told and effectively had no actual say in the decisions affecting and effecting this country - Spitting Image's exaggerated depiction of a useless, completely clueless and idiotic tory cabinet being totally subservient to the dominant Thatcher was a LOT closer to the truth than anyone at the time realised.

It is fair, correct and true to say that we are now seeing the result of many of Thatcher's decisions in the current recession, and that the only people who really REALLY benefitted from her time in number 10 were the richer and upper classes.

Basically, she almost single handedly ruined this country's long term prospects. Something which Fabrice Muamba could never do in a million years.

So yeah - you are not comparing eggs with eggs.

< Message edited by great_badir -- 12/4/2012 1:04:16 PM >

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Post #: 127

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 12/4/2012 3:11:57 PM

kumar

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If twitter was banned then this problem could have been avoided. And if not, then ban the media it was reported on. Ban them all.

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Post #: 128

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 12/4/2012 8:42:09 PM

Kilo_T_Mortal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kumar

If twitter was banned then this problem could have been avoided. And if not, then ban the media it was reported on. Ban them all.

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Post #: 129

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 27/7/2012 10:22:39 AM

elab49

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Joined: 1/10/2005

This is the only place I can find Paul Chambers being discused thanks to search

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19009344

It remains ludicrous it got this far, but about bloody time someone on the law side didn't show them up for lack of common sense.

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Post #: 130

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 9:34:53 AM

elab49

Posts: 51544
Joined: 1/10/2005

I've changed the title of the thread because this is pretty much the same thing that's being discussed in here so there's no need to repeat it.

Yesterday some foul little toad sent some appallingly insulting tweets to Tom Daley post the diving. Today he's been arrested.

Now some people can't it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about both. Should what the idiot on Twitter did be an arrestable offence? For trolling on Twitter? There was no racial or other content, it was just a foul little tit venting (and probably a stupid kid from the pathetic back-pedalling when the result dropped on him from a great height). Much the same way as often happens on here, the responses of others acted as a significant corrective.

But now the police are reportedly involved. Should they be?

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Post #: 131

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 9:36:52 AM

Rgirvan44

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Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

Think it was the subsequent threat of killing him that got the police involved rather than the intital tweet.

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Post #: 132

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 9:42:30 AM

elab49

Posts: 51544
Joined: 1/10/2005

And that takes us back to the Twitter trial - did anyone take it seriously?

Lots of people are rude to each other twitter, including threats. But if the press or fame gets involved, suddenly the police seem to be doing something. There's, IMO, a level of inconsistency there as well. E.g. I saw several tweets last night saying 'kill the japs' and some worse - quite a few problems with those. Anyone tracking them down?

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Post #: 133

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 9:46:54 AM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18874
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

Well that is another issue entirely. Twitter is a very very odd place.

What I have noticed is the people who strive to insult other people are the ones most questioning the police here. My rule of thumb is don't be an arse online or offline.

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Post #: 134

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 9:49:22 AM

elab49

Posts: 51544
Joined: 1/10/2005

Indeed.

But if the police are going to get involved with something like Twitter, I do think someone needs to sit down and work out the ins and outs of legalities and not make it seem like 'public outrage' is currently a reason to arrest/charge/question someone.

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Post #: 135

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 9:58:47 AM

James2183

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Joined: 30/9/2005

Looking back over his Tweets over the month there is a lot of abuse (some racial) featured throughout. There is alos racial abuse in the youtube video that's online too where he threatens another Twitter guy.

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Post #: 136

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 10:06:12 AM

elab49

Posts: 51544
Joined: 1/10/2005

It's Twitter - he won't be alone. And almost the entire 'japs' trending line is racial abuse. Against a country visiting ours as part of the Olympics.

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Post #: 137

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 10:07:14 AM

elab49

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Not to mention the insults and mysogyny on Zoe Smith's.

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Post #: 138

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 10:15:12 AM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19962
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

Either way the little toad needs a rude awakening. Some of the tweets were horrible. And a completely different tone to the single clear joke that #twitterjoketrial was about. This was a consistent, prolonged attack on multiple people which included racism.

I'm not sure arresting is necessarily the answer, though. It is easy to ignore people on Twitter. Just block them...

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 10:19:11 AM

elab49

Posts: 51544
Joined: 1/10/2005

He does indeed. The later tweets suggested if not his brain had woken up, that someone else's he knows had.

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Post #: 140

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 10:27:31 AM

clownfoot

Posts: 7736
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: The ickle town of Fuck, Austria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

My rule of thumb is don't be an arse online or offline.

It's a very good rule.

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 10:28:35 AM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19962
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

My rule of thumb is don't be an arse online or offline.

Rules are meant to be broken tho, eh?

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 10:37:57 AM

Hobbitonlass

Posts: 11495
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Westeros

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

My rule of thumb is don't be an arse online or offline.

Rules are meant to be broken tho, eh?

Are you threatening to break his thumb? You could be arrested for that!

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 10:52:29 AM

Chief Wiggum

Posts: 1921
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quote:

ORIGINAL: clownfoot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

My rule of thumb is don't be an arse online or offline.

It's a very good rule.

Almost as good as Will Wheaton's Law (link) (meant for online gaming, but applicable in all walks of life)

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 11:09:57 AM

steffols

Posts: 7613
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Jungleland

Absolutely he should be called to answer for his actions. Most of the press are reporting on the one tweet relating to Daley's father but there was an awful lot of other tweets which to me looks like a sustained attack to get a reaction from someone. A guy on twitter asked me why Daley couldn't have just blocked the guy, the tweets were coming from him as Daley was competing or just after competing, I doubt the lad had time to look at Twitter what with being in the Olympics and everything. The when he does look at Twitter, he's forced to look as this crap from some little weasel.

If this kid had been shouting this stuff at Daley in the street, he wouldn't last long before someone intervened. Yes there is a block button but just because the block button exists doesn't mean we should let little shits like him run riot and say what they want on twitter. I've seen a few people question the right to free speech. What a perverse way of reading that particular right. He wasn't expressing his right to a free opinion, he was being a nasty little shit for the sake of it and he should be held accountable.

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 11:19:23 AM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11270
Joined: 30/9/2005

Just seen what he's been sending:

http://thedigitalreport.net/2012/07/uk-diver-tom-daley-subjected-to-abuse-by-twitter-user-rileyy_69/

My favourite one of all though, presumably in response to the abuse he was getting for what he'd been saying:

@TomDaley1994 you shouldn't of got me that hate though i apologised and you didn't even answer me

< Message edited by Hood_Man -- 31/7/2012 11:22:18 AM >

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Post #: 146

RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 11:31:20 AM

Hobbitonlass

Posts: 11495
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Westeros

Hadn't seen the tweets. Wow what a turn around from original nasty tweet, to begging for forgiveness tweets to full on threatening tweets. Deserves everything he gets, nasty little child.

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 11:48:18 AM

sharkboy

Posts: 6023
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast

quote:

ORIGINAL: steffols

I've seen a few people question the right to free speech. What a perverse way of reading that particular right. He wasn't expressing his right to a free opinion, he was being a nasty little shit for the sake of it and he should be held accountable.

"17-yr old idiot in "tweet first, think later" shock" - how has this come as a surprise to anyone? It's amazing how many people forget that this isn't an absolute right in this country, and that spouting threatening, racist or homophobic bile isn't exercising that right, it's breaking a law. If you haven't got the good grace not to be a dick online, then you can't complain when your actions come back to bite you on the ass.

My only concern about this particular case is the perceived inconsistency of approach. It's unreasonable to expect the authorities to monitor each and every tweet/status update etc, but where it has been reported to them, I'd expect a similar course of action from them each time. If the tweets hurling abuse at the Japanese gymnastics team have been reprted, then let's see some arrests here too.

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 11:48:53 AM

gunstar

Posts: 964
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Star Lite Star Bright Trailer Park

quote:

What a perverse way of reading that particular right. He wasn't expressing his right to a free opinion, he was being a nasty little shit for the sake of it and he should be held accountable.

In that case, around about two thirds of twitter users need arresting.

I look at it like this: If you're going to use a public and open forum to self-publicise, you have to be prepared for some hugely wanky comments from idiots. They are the public after all (a lot of them anyway).

I do believe it is a question of free speech, and in no way a perverse arguement. As elab pointed out a bit earlier, there are no definite boundaries and I worry about this 'malicious communication' easily being used as a way of getting people to stop saying something (and not just vile abuse.)

The kid's a mouthy arsehole. You arrest every single one of them and then you might as well turn the whole country into a floating prison ship.

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RE: Should Liam Stacey have gone to prison? - 31/7/2012 12:00:23 PM

Harley Quinn

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From: Arkham

Some of this knobs earlier tweets not aimed at Tom Daley were beyond vile. There were a whole series he sent to someone whose sister had died, mocking his sisters death, (Bad) then describing what he'd do to the body (beyond sick). There were also death threats and a shocking amounts of racism.

Being a dick isn't illegal sadly, racism and death threats are.

< Message edited by Harley Quinn -- 31/7/2012 1:48:10 PM >

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