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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 1/3/2013 11:49:17 PM

Indio

Posts: 7141
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: London

I liked the pilot, but I'm getting the feeling more and more each week as I watch Derek that its the law of diminishing returns and that I'm only watching it out of some kind of support/sympathy for Ricky, there are moments (i.e. the other weeks use of Coldplay as a soundtrack) when you can only feel that he is taking the piss (although when I saw him at BAFTA last year promoting An Idiot Abroad with Merchant and Pillkington Karl himself said he didn't want to do anything soundtracked by Fix You so maybe thats where he got the idea for that).

It's nearly over and I can't see that there is going to be some big moment at the end where the whole of the UK is educated to what a masterpiece this really is and what an army of tools all the Gervais haters out there have been shown to be - I'm thinking maybe he should have just have left it as a one off episode and found something else to do (hopefully not a fake documentary), certainly can't see the point in the promised second series.

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Post #: 61

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 2/3/2013 11:04:24 PM

Mister Coe

Posts: 663
Joined: 20/10/2012

I was reading the TV guide for next week and the synopsis says something about Derek's Dad showing up...

I seem to remember that Gervais did this character in stand-up before THE OFFICE and there was some reference to child abuse. I also remember Hannah talking about 'all he's been through'...

I suspect that DEREK, in the last episode, is going to take a big screamingly dark turn into something awful...

... either that or there'll be a few shit montages and a young person will grow to love old people...

I just think that Gervais is far too talented to put a show as throwaway and shallow as this on the air without a point to make at the end of it...

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Post #: 62

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 4/3/2013 9:17:35 AM

Chief

Posts: 7140
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee

That was a pretty weak episode. The rapper story was just a re-tread of the girl from a couple of weeks ago. As above, I think I'm just watching this for the sake of it now. How many episodes to go?

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Post #: 63

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 4/3/2013 10:49:23 PM

Mister Coe

Posts: 663
Joined: 20/10/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

That was a pretty weak episode. The rapper story was just a re-tread of the girl from a couple of weeks ago. As above, I think I'm just watching this for the sake of it now. How many episodes to go?

I think this weeks episode is the last one.

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Post #: 64

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 5/3/2013 8:44:07 PM

Drone

Posts: 959
Joined: 30/9/2005

This is the first Gervais vehicle I have made an effort to sit down and watch regularly. It's been a bit cringey with it's sledgehammer 'yoof come to realize the value of the elderly innit' awkwardness, but apart from that I think Derek is... nice.

It's not laugh out loud funny or offensive, it's just a pleasant thing to watch. Karl Pilkington steals the show for me, and Kev is just very odd; although his beach antics were quite amusing. I like the characters and it makes a change to watch something so hideously sentimental which is still entertaining.

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Post #: 65

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 6/3/2013 10:44:32 PM

jcthefirst

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From: Bangor

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Post #: 66

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 7/3/2013 6:09:32 AM

Castor Troy

Posts: 7061
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Rocky's graveside

Ok, so that was what Gervais was trying to achieve all series. Easily the best, least forced episode of the series. Apart from a couple of things ('I got a dad') and perhaps the easy use of 'Fix You' it was perfect - right up there with the best of Gervias' dramatic stuff. I really liked the structure of he episode - a lot of talking heads talking about serious things. And Kev had the best monologue of the lot - amazing stuff! Gonna watch it again tonight.

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Post #: 67

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 8/3/2013 12:11:00 PM

great_badir

Posts: 4206
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Castor Troy
Ok, so that was what Gervais was trying to achieve all series. Easily the best, least forced episode of the series. Apart from a couple of things ('I got a dad') and perhaps the easy use of 'Fix You' it was perfect - right up there with the best of Gervias' dramatic stuff. I really liked the structure of he episode - a lot of talking heads talking about serious things. And Kev had the best monologue of the lot - amazing stuff! Gonna watch it again tonight.

We must have been watching two different programs...

Whilst I appreciate that that episode was trying to be more serious and have a bit more pathos, it was completely ruined by the obtrusive soundtrack (I seriously think if you got rid of ALL the music and most of the montages, it would improve the whole series by at least 50%) and most of Kev's talking heads spots. His last "monologue" could have been spoken by someone else, or even removed completely, and it would not have had any effect on the show, so I still think he's a completely pointless character who sticks out like a sore thumb. Gervais' defence of the character doesn't wash with me, I'm afraid.

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Post #: 68

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 9/3/2013 3:47:39 AM

Mister Coe

Posts: 663
Joined: 20/10/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: Castor Troy
Ok, so that was what Gervais was trying to achieve all series. Easily the best, least forced episode of the series. Apart from a couple of things ('I got a dad') and perhaps the easy use of 'Fix You' it was perfect - right up there with the best of Gervias' dramatic stuff. I really liked the structure of he episode - a lot of talking heads talking about serious things. And Kev had the best monologue of the lot - amazing stuff! Gonna watch it again tonight.

We must have been watching two different programs...

Whilst I appreciate that that episode was trying to be more serious and have a bit more pathos, it was completely ruined by the obtrusive soundtrack (I seriously think if you got rid of ALL the music and most of the montages, it would improve the whole series by at least 50%) and most of Kev's talking heads spots. His last "monologue" could have been spoken by someone else, or even removed completely, and it would not have had any effect on the show, so I still think he's a completely pointless character who sticks out like a sore thumb. Gervais' defence of the character doesn't wash with me, I'm afraid.

I'm with you, Great Badir, I've stuck with this show when just about everyone I know gave up, but the last episode was a great big bag of nothing much. OK, I was wrong about the big bad turn in the last episode, but I was right about the shit montages. I mean, fucking Coldplay AGAIN? And how Gervais hinted about how Kev would play a big part in the last episode, but it was just a reguritation of the 'kindness is magic' line from the pilot?

Nah, I was waiting for a big justification for all the sledgehammer sentiment of previous episodes and I ended up thinking that Gervais is as washed up as so many people are thinking. And I'm a fan of his.

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Post #: 69

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 9/3/2013 10:10:50 AM

matty_b

Posts: 13132
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

This is my review from another thread -

I don't erupt into a volcanic hatred at the mere mention of Gervais, but I also don't think he's produced anything of worth since The Office, so when I say this is comfortably the best thing he's done since then, it's a backhanded compliment at best. Thing is, I don't find the concept of fame particularly interesting which is why I found Extras and Life's Too Short cold and mainly execrable respectively, whereas Derek is undeniably heartfelt but also obvious to the point of extreme mawkishness - old people are nice and Derek is nice because he doesn't even understand the concept of thinking bad about someone. Gervais has always been a sentimental writer, but it's worked in the best of his past work because he's balanced it out with a lot of harshness that various characters have had to struggle through to get to that point. The eventual get together of Tim and Dawn in The Office is such a tremendous emotional high point because the entire two series and Christmas specials tortured us and them by permanently keeping them at arms length. Here, it's all very nice and comfy from the get go. No-one is tripped up by their own ego, their own flaws or is the show's version of Chris Finch or Andy Millman's acting nemesis (can't be arsed to look that up) - even the boorish Kev is pitiable rather than genuinely unpleasant.

Most of the best bits, unexpectedly, come from Karl Pilkington as Dougie. Granted, it's just an extension of his own persona, but there was still no guarantee that would work and he fits onto the drama model with ease. The very best bit of Derek comes at the end of the first episode proper where Dougie loses his rag with the penpusher and hounds him out of the home. It's an obvious scene, but Pilkington plays it very nicely. Other than that, there's an unexpectedly perceptive line about the potential of Derek having autism - "Don't worry about it then" - which really resonates (and I have personal reasons for that line working) but not a whole lot else, other than a lot of montages and Coldplay which you could almost swear has been written as a satire of touchy-feely dramas, but it's not. Gervais means it, and while I prefer it when he's heartfelt in his writing as opposed to being cruel or bitter, it still doesn't really work.

It should be said that Kerry Godliman is pretty brilliant as Hannah, the nurse who runs the home Derek works in, but you do wish that Gervais had actually scaled Derek the character back considerably, or even excised him completely, as it's with Hannah that the nugget of something really interesting and good lies. She's both funny - her delivery of "She hasn't changed. She was always a cunt." is deadpan brilliance - and affecting without being obvious about it. I've always found Gervais' mainly sympathetic writing of women (Dawn, Maggie and now Hannah) one of his strengths, and with what I think is a genuine interest in the situation here, then it should be called Hannah and not Derek, really. I'd like to think that the second series would go down that road, but I don't hold out much hope.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 9/3/2013 12:07:08 PM

superdan

Posts: 7335
Joined: 31/7/2008

I understand a lot of the criticisms about this show, and agree with some of them. It's not and was never going to be for everyone. But I found it impossible to be cynical about Derek. Yes it's saccharine and sentimental (almost at times to the point of cloying mawkishness), but that's exactly what its meant to be. There is no hidden agenda or message. Its's an open book, it wears its heart on its sleeve and makes no apologies for what it is (and in that way is not unlike the character of Derek himself). It is, basically, a simple, sweet-natured show with a central message no deeper than it's nice to be nice. That's quite unusual in this day and age, and I think Gervais deserves a certain respect for pulling the rug out from under those who thought it was just going to be a vehicle for mocking disabled people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

It should be said that Kerry Godliman is pretty brilliant as Hannah, the nurse who runs the home Derek works in, but you do wish that Gervais had actually scaled Derek the character back considerably, or even excised him completely, as it's with Hannah that the nugget of something really interesting and good lies. She's both funny - her delivery of "She hasn't changed. She was always a cunt." is deadpan brilliance - and affecting without being obvious about it. I've always found Gervais' mainly sympathetic writing of women (Dawn, Maggie and now Hannah) one of his strengths, and with what I think is a genuine interest in the situation here, then it should be called Hannah and not Derek, really. I'd like to think that the second series would go down that road, but I don't hold out much hope.

I agree that Godliman is the breakout from this. I'd seen her do stand-up a couple of times and while she was very funny I wasn't sure whether she was much of an actress or not. Turns out that (like a lot of stand-up comedians) she is. I'd agree that her character could have done with more room to breathe, but perhaps that was the point: she has nothing other than the home and the residents really - that is her life. I thought it was interesting that while Hannah, Dougie and even Kev all explicitly admire and love Derek for his kindness etc., Derek explicitly admires and loves Hannah ("I only pray I die before Hannah") for the same thing.

I am a bit surprised it's been picked up for a second series though. There doesn't seem to be enough there, so unless Gervais changes things up quite a lot I think it'll end up as more of the same. And there's no need for that, the point has been made already.

< Message edited by superdan -- 9/3/2013 12:09:03 PM >

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Post #: 71

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 9/3/2013 2:01:50 PM

matty_b

Posts: 13132
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

I had no idea she came from a stand-up background.

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

I understand a lot of the criticisms about this show, and agree with some of them. It's not and was never going to be for everyone. But I found it impossible to be cynical about Derek. Yes it's saccharine and sentimental (almost at times to the point of cloying mawkishness), but that's exactly what its meant to be. There is no hidden agenda or message. Its's an open book, it wears its heart on its sleeve and makes no apologies for what it is (and in that way is not unlike the character of Derek himself). It is, basically, a simple, sweet-natured show with a central message no deeper than it's nice to be nice. That's quite unusual in this day and age, and I think Gervais deserves a certain respect for pulling the rug out from under those who thought it was just going to be a vehicle for mocking disabled people.

And this is why I can't hate it, despite its numerous flaws.

After it finished, I had an idle look at some interviews with Gervais where he said his sister, sister-in-law and numerous nieces all work in various care homes so I think he does have a genuine admiration for the profession and wanted to do something genuinely, well, nice for a change. And it may make me a soft knacker at heart, but I'd always prefer to see something that's actually heartfelt rather than something horribly cynical. I've seen the Simple Jack criticism thrown around a few times and while it's hard to disagree with that, it's also hard to dislike it that much.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 10/3/2013 3:00:19 AM

Mister Coe

Posts: 663
Joined: 20/10/2012

OK... perhaps the dirty jokes and sentiment of DEREK was aimed at the wrong audience? Not a 10pm audience on C4, but a peak-time slot on BBC1? Without anyone saying 'fuck' or 'cunt'? The general public loves broad, unsubtle stuff and I think this could have been a huge hit if it was aimed at a different audience.

Ricky G is already talking about doing a second series...

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 10/3/2013 7:58:43 AM

Castor Troy

Posts: 7061
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Rocky's graveside

Yeah it's weird because I'm more than aware of the shows flaws but I could never hate this (or probably any thing Gervais does - apart from Invention Of Lying) because I'm too big of a fan. Even with things like Life's Too Short there's always bits in there that are amazing.

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Post #: 74

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 10/3/2013 9:55:37 AM

DancingClown

Posts: 3693
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

OK... perhaps the dirty jokes and sentiment of DEREK was aimed at the wrong audience? Not a 10pm audience on C4, but a peak-time slot on BBC1? Without anyone saying 'fuck' or 'cunt'? The general public loves broad, unsubtle stuff and I think this could have been a huge hit if it was aimed at a different audience.

Ricky G is already talking about doing a second series...

But it's already been a success, that's why it's been commissioned for a second series. It's found its audience. I wouldn't exactly call it "broad" comedy, either. It's not exactly Last Of The Summer Wine.

I thought it was pretty good. Sure, I have some problems with it. As people have mentioned it's about as subtle as a brick in the face, there's a certain self-righteousness about it, it's overly sentimental; although deliberately so. I find Derek himself a little, erm...annoying. Am I allowed to say that? Ricky has said that he's not disabled, so I can. However, I think it's obvious that he clearly is, especially after watching the final episode. So I'm a little uncomfortable with the character. I don't know what to think of him, and saying that there's nothing wrong with him, he's just "kind" doesn't quite wash for me. I'm not saying he has to be labelled, it's just the character seems to lack context or sincerity.

Some people have criticised the use of music, especially at emotional points, and I understand that. However, people forget that it is a 'mockumentary', and that an actual documentary about an old people's home probably would use music in that way because of the subject matter, whereas it wouldn't have suited The Office. I think Karl is the best thing about it, at least for me. But then again I could watch him in anything. Kerry Godliman very good as well, although the "she's still a cunt" line I saw coming a mile off. She needs to headbutt more chavs, like in the pilot. And what happened to the boyfriend?

So, yeah, a mixed bag, although still enjoyable. I think.

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Post #: 75

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 10/3/2013 3:22:56 PM

Mister Coe

Posts: 663
Joined: 20/10/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

OK... perhaps the dirty jokes and sentiment of DEREK was aimed at the wrong audience? Not a 10pm audience on C4, but a peak-time slot on BBC1? Without anyone saying 'fuck' or 'cunt'? The general public loves broad, unsubtle stuff and I think this could have been a huge hit if it was aimed at a different audience.

Ricky G is already talking about doing a second series...

But it's already been a success, that's why it's been commissioned for a second series. It's found its audience. I wouldn't exactly call it "broad" comedy, either. It's not exactly Last Of The Summer Wine.

I thought it was pretty good. Sure, I have some problems with it. As people have mentioned it's about as subtle as a brick in the face, there's a certain self-righteousness about it, it's overly sentimental; although deliberately so. I find Derek himself a little, erm...annoying. Am I allowed to say that? Ricky has said that he's not disabled, so I can. However, I think it's obvious that he clearly is, especially after watching the final episode. So I'm a little uncomfortable with the character. I don't know what to think of him, and saying that there's nothing wrong with him, he's just "kind" doesn't quite wash for me. I'm not saying he has to be labelled, it's just the character seems to lack context or sincerity.

Some people have criticised the use of music, especially at emotional points, and I understand that. However, people forget that it is a 'mockumentary', and that an actual documentary about an old people's home probably would use music in that way because of the subject matter, whereas it wouldn't have suited The Office. I think Karl is the best thing about it, at least for me. But then again I could watch him in anything. Kerry Godliman very good as well, although the "she's still a cunt" line I saw coming a mile off. She needs to headbutt more chavs, like in the pilot. And what happened to the boyfriend?

So, yeah, a mixed bag, although still enjoyable. I think.

Some good points there, DancingClown... and you're right, it's been something of a success, but I still think that it could have reached a much wider audience with a few amendments. I can think of a lot of people who would have liked it but not with the bad language and that.

And an excellent point with your comment about the 'mockumentary' style... you're right, if this was a genuine documentary,they would be using Coldplay (and the most obvious Coldplay songs at that) in a cheesy montage style... didn't pick up on that.

So, yes, I've got issues with this show, but I guess I'll be watching series two.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 11/3/2013 9:33:46 AM

Chief

Posts: 7140
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee

I thought the Coldplay thing was a dig at Karl? He said something during An Idiot Abroad when Warwick was climbing a load of stairs about "playing fucking Coldplay over this" or something like that.

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Post #: 77

RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 16/3/2013 1:52:11 PM

Musefan

Posts: 116
Joined: 21/12/2005

Finally caught up on the last 3 episodes of the series today. My feelings about the series as a whole - the makings of a great show, but just let down by lazy writing (& bad song choices).

Fundamentally i enjoyed watching the series because I enjoyed spending time with Derek, Dougie, Kev & Hannah, and find them to be a much more likable bunch of characters than most recent comedy series possess. With the right storylines I think this could be a really brilliant show, but too many episodes this series were just let down by narratives that just lacked real drama. I don't have a problem with happy endings, but too many of Derek's felt unjustified. To me the great things about the happy endings of previous Gervais work like The Office or Extras was that they came as a genuine surprise. Whereas from the volunteer girl deciding she wanted to stay right through to Derek forgiving his dad, I never really believed the storylines would end otherwise.

The big exception to this trend was Episode 3 which I thought was really very good. The focus on Tom & Hannah's relationship was interesting and the inheritance storyline was very funny, but they way they came together with Marg giving Tom her expensive ring to propose to Hannah with was just great writing and led to a compelling conclusion.

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Post #: 78