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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 10:40:01 AM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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This show along with the third series of an Idiot Abroad says a lot about the partnership of Gervais and Merchant. Merchant is by far the more talented writer and a much funnier one at that as well.

As I say it's not to say I don't enjoy Derek, or IA3. But IA1 and 2 along with Extras, Life's Too Short and The Office are far funnier and I can put that down to the presence of Merchant. The same can be said of the two's respective stand up material, I've seen both and enjoyed both live but Merchant's was the funnier of the two.

Still looking forward to the rest of Derek, but I'm looking forwards more to Merchant's series based on the theme of his stand up (finding a socially awkward man a girlfriend).

The only other thing highlighted by this series is that it only goes to cement the fact that Karl can't act!

< Message edited by Sexual Harassment Panda -- 31/1/2013 10:41:45 AM >


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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 11:54:16 AM   
superdan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

This show along with the third series of an Idiot Abroad says a lot about the partnership of Gervais and Merchant. Merchant is by far the more talented writer and a much funnier one at that as well.

As I say it's not to say I don't enjoy Derek, or IA3. But IA1 and 2 along with Extras, Life's Too Short and The Office are far funnier and I can put that down to the presence of Merchant. The same can be said of the two's respective stand up material, I've seen both and enjoyed both live but Merchant's was the funnier of the two.


I often see this sort of thing written, but to be truthful I don't really know what evidence there is for it. If it's that the stuff Gervais has written without Merchant hasn't been as humorous as that written with him (which is probably true), it doesn't necessarily follow that Merchant provides all the funnies. Cemetary Junction proved that. By its very nature two people writing together generally brings out the best in both anyway. I guess what I'm pushing at is, what exactly what has Merchant done without Gervais to earn the reputation that he's the better writer? It's possible Hello Ladies (the TV series I mean) may prove that he's the real talent, but until then I don't really understand where the assertion comes from.


quote:


The only other thing highlighted by this series is that it only goes to cement the fact that Karl can't act!


I think he does alright actually, especially since he's obviously not a natural actor and hasn't had any formal training. Better than I would do anyway

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Post #: 32
RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 12:00:58 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

This show along with the third series of an Idiot Abroad says a lot about the partnership of Gervais and Merchant. Merchant is by far the more talented writer and a much funnier one at that as well.

As I say it's not to say I don't enjoy Derek, or IA3. But IA1 and 2 along with Extras, Life's Too Short and The Office are far funnier and I can put that down to the presence of Merchant. The same can be said of the two's respective stand up material, I've seen both and enjoyed both live but Merchant's was the funnier of the two.


I often see this sort of thing written, but to be truthful I don't really know what evidence there is for it. If it's that the stuff Gervais has written without Merchant hasn't been as humorous as that written with him (which is probably true), it doesn't necessarily follow that Merchant provides all the funnies. Cemetary Junction proved that. By its very nature two people writing together generally brings out the best in both anyway. I guess what I'm pushing at is, what exactly what has Merchant done without Gervais to earn the reputation that he's the better writer? It's possible Hello Ladies (the TV series I mean) may prove that he's the real talent, but until then I don't really understand where the assertion comes from.


quote:


The only other thing highlighted by this series is that it only goes to cement the fact that Karl can't act!


I think he does alright actually, especially since he's obviously not a natural actor and hasn't had any formal training. Better than I would do anyway



As mentioned above I believe Merchant managed to out do all of Gervais' stand up shows in just one attempt. Admittedly this is subjective and I suppose repeat performances could be the proof in the pudding rather than just the one.

But hey each to their own. I'm certainly not putting Gervais down as I do like him and enjoy his comedy also.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 12:35:17 PM   
Swoz_MK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

People expecting a laugh-a-minute comedy are guaranteed to be disappointed with Derek, because that's not what it is. It's more of a warm, slightly sentimental drama with moments of subtle comedy rubbed in occasionally. Negative reviews are almost a given considering the premise and because Gervais divides opinion more than almost any other, but I quite liked it. It was sweet and surprisingly pointed at times (Hannah's comments about the cost of care, Dougie sounding off the the pen-pusher). And it made a point about our treatment of the elderly with a careful circumspection.


As subtle as falling in a pond/sitting on a cake.

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Post #: 34
RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 12:37:26 PM   
DancingClown


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Steve Merchant does have a history in stand-up, though, he didn't just do it on a whim.

And Karl was definitely the best thing about Derek. To a certain extent he was playing himself, and of course Gervais wrote the role for him, but a degree of acting chops is still required when you have a script and need to give a performance. And as Superdan said for a complete amateur he did pretty well. Couldn't bloody stand Kev, though. That whole sex-obsessed loser act was done better with Gareth in The Office because at least he had more depth as a character. But maybe there's better stuff with him to come.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 12:40:52 PM   
superdan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Swoz_MK


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

People expecting a laugh-a-minute comedy are guaranteed to be disappointed with Derek, because that's not what it is. It's more of a warm, slightly sentimental drama with moments of subtle comedy rubbed in occasionally. Negative reviews are almost a given considering the premise and because Gervais divides opinion more than almost any other, but I quite liked it. It was sweet and surprisingly pointed at times (Hannah's comments about the cost of care, Dougie sounding off the the pen-pusher). And it made a point about our treatment of the elderly with a careful circumspection.


As subtle as falling in a pond/sitting on a cake.


It's not exactly Miranda, is it?

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Post #: 36
RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 12:44:18 PM   
Castor Troy


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I think all Derek highlights is the type of comedy each one brings to the duo. I think Stephen comes from a broader background and that's usually his influence I'd say. He's said several times he genuinely like 'When the Whistle Blows'. Any thing with AIDS, disability etc in the joke will come from Gervais.


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Post #: 37
RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 12:49:06 PM   
Swoz_MK


Posts: 2884
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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Swoz_MK


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

People expecting a laugh-a-minute comedy are guaranteed to be disappointed with Derek, because that's not what it is. It's more of a warm, slightly sentimental drama with moments of subtle comedy rubbed in occasionally. Negative reviews are almost a given considering the premise and because Gervais divides opinion more than almost any other, but I quite liked it. It was sweet and surprisingly pointed at times (Hannah's comments about the cost of care, Dougie sounding off the the pen-pusher). And it made a point about our treatment of the elderly with a careful circumspection.


As subtle as falling in a pond/sitting on a cake.


It's not exactly Miranda, is it?


Probably not. I imagine Miranda has far, far less excruciating, mawkish attempts at tugging at heart strings.

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Post #: 38
RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 12:49:46 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Castor Troy

I think all Derek highlights is the type of comedy each one brings to the duo. I think Stephen comes from a broader background and that's usually his influence I'd say. He's said several times he genuinely like 'When the Whistle Blows'. Any thing with AIDS, disability etc in the joke will come from Gervais.



Going off the recent storm about Merchant's "autism" comments I'd say that's not strictly true.


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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 9:08:49 PM   
Mister Coe

 

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I think this one will be one that grows on you. Loved the pilot, thought the first episode of the full series was pretty decent, the whole thing about the home closing down will be either a massive downer or a big, silly up-lift in the final part.

I think Gervais is decent in the title part of this show, but Kerry G is the true heart of the show. She's excellent.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 9:24:39 PM   
DancingClown


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From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda


quote:

ORIGINAL: Castor Troy

I think all Derek highlights is the type of comedy each one brings to the duo. I think Stephen comes from a broader background and that's usually his influence I'd say. He's said several times he genuinely like 'When the Whistle Blows'. Any thing with AIDS, disability etc in the joke will come from Gervais.



Going off the recent storm about Merchant's "autism" comments I'd say that's not strictly true.



You mean the "storm" that none of us are aware of? I just had to google it. He used an unfortunate turn of phrase but he clearly wasn't ridiculing or maligning autism in any way.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 9:29:33 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda


quote:

ORIGINAL: Castor Troy

I think all Derek highlights is the type of comedy each one brings to the duo. I think Stephen comes from a broader background and that's usually his influence I'd say. He's said several times he genuinely like 'When the Whistle Blows'. Any thing with AIDS, disability etc in the joke will come from Gervais.



Going off the recent storm about Merchant's "autism" comments I'd say that's not strictly true.



You mean the "storm" that none of us are aware of? I just had to google it. He used an unfortunate turn of phrase but he clearly wasn't ridiculing or maligning autism in any way.


None of us? Do you mean you? Well done, you know how to exaggerate and generalise, you sir are my hero.

It was a story that was across all the papers, but as you say no-one is aware of it. I also never gave any mention of me agreeing with the negativity towards his comments, and if you read further up the thread you'll see it's me championing Merchant, not that others have said they don't like him.

You can settle down now darling.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 9:41:29 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4236
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda


quote:

ORIGINAL: Castor Troy

I think all Derek highlights is the type of comedy each one brings to the duo. I think Stephen comes from a broader background and that's usually his influence I'd say. He's said several times he genuinely like 'When the Whistle Blows'. Any thing with AIDS, disability etc in the joke will come from Gervais.



Going off the recent storm about Merchant's "autism" comments I'd say that's not strictly true.



You mean the "storm" that none of us are aware of? I just had to google it. He used an unfortunate turn of phrase but he clearly wasn't ridiculing or maligning autism in any way.


None of us? Do you mean you? Well done, you know how to exaggerate and generalise, you sir are my hero.

It was a story that was across all the papers, but as you say no-one is aware of it. I also never gave any mention of me agreeing with the negativity towards his comments, and if you read further up the thread you'll see it's me championing Merchant, not that others have said they don't like him.

You can settle down now darling.


Fucking hell, calm down. I don't read the papers so was unaware of the story and I certainly didn't read about it anywhere on the internet. I even saw the interview as it happened and didn't bat an eye. My comments were targeted towards the people getting upset in the one article I found, people who were calling his comments "disgraceful", which seemed a bit of an over-reaction. Storm in a tea-cup obviously. Not once did I accuse you of agreeing with any negativity targeted towards him.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 9:45:48 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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Apologies then, your comments read across more as you directing that comment towards myself.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 31/1/2013 9:49:04 PM   
DancingClown


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No worries. I could've worded it better.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 1/2/2013 1:06:53 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
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From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
Back on topic...

I agree that, on the available evidence, Merchant generally provides the smarter, funnier and less obvious material of the two. Compare what both of them have written alone over the years (and here I'm referring to stuff in newspapers/blogs etc, as well as their respective solo stand-up efforts), and what they each come up with in podcasts and commentaries, it's fairly obvious where the real brains of the outfit are. Agreed, together they do seem to bring out the best in each other, but there's quite a chasm between them as individual comedians. What I mean by that is, now we've had several years of different types of material from them, you can go back to old episodes of The Office and Extras and you can start to pick out bits that are identifiable as RG writing on his own, and bits that are identifiable as SM writing on his own (don't ask me to specify, cos I can't off the top of my head right now - it's just an observation I've made having latterly re-watched some episodes of each after listening to the podcasts and XFM stuff, and seeing both of their stand-up material).

As for Derek (the show) - again, it's quite good and it's good to see RG attempting something a bit more dramatic, but I still think he's not right for the part of Derek. Whereas Karl, even though not as good an actor as RG (and RG is only okay, if not mediocre), just fits into his role perfectly (mainly, I guess, cos RG has basically written Dougie as an extension of Karl's own persona). And Kev - whether you like the character or the actor, just what the hell is he doing there? Unless something more interesting comes along later in the series for him, it just seems like RG's written an arbitrary character so a mate of his can be in the show. Completely pointless.

But Kerry Godliman - brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 1/2/2013 4:44:25 PM   
Castor Troy


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For all you Kev haters...

@rickygervais: @JingleJan: Liked the first episode of #Derek, not too sure of Kevin."

Just wait. Trust me. He's there for very good reason.

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Post #: 47
RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 2/2/2013 11:11:51 PM   
Goodfella


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From: North Devon
I really enjoyed the first episode of this series and think Gervais and Merchant are equal writers with different strengths, when it comes to stand-up material, intriguingly, neither really blew me away. I'm not sure Derek is supposed to be "funny", it's a bittersweet drama sprinkled with the lighthearted moments a show like this needs to keep it's audience in check, I agree it's indeed great to see Gervais try something with a bit more drama and emotion, an extension of his writing of David Brent's firing in 'The Office' or Andy Millan's CBB soliloquy in 'Extras'. We knew he could do it from those two scenes alone and I can't help but feel recent accusations of inflated ego and self-worth partly helped to drive Gervais down the road of getting 'Derek' commissioned, he'd never admit it but I think he's just mildly trying to prove a point with this series.

The controversies that surrounded the 'second pilot' appeared to have completely died down as the usual bunch of nay-sayers realised this was not what it seemed, the first episode started off slowly but wound into life thanks to the fantastic acting skills of Kerry Goldiman who plays a frustrated but heartwarming, caring and compassionate nursing home manager Hannah, it's her character that makes the mockumentary style Geravis adores so much, so believable. You can't help but feel for the show's main suffering protaginist (I feel Geravis wants Hannah to be the centre of attention really, and not Derek, we'll see where that goes over the course of the next five episodes) and her situation, not to mention the overrall feel of the first episode and the narrative. That's what Gervais does so well I feel here, there was a surreal aspect to TO and E, there isn't with Derek.

I agree though, that probably it's Gervais who struggles with his role, it's proof further down the line he's a better writer than an actor in my view, is it not a little because he's such a recongisable face though? Karl Pilkington is brilliant as Dougie, a character who I don't think is such an extension of Pilkington's persona as it first appears. Kev does seem a little intrusive, perhaps the only real slapstick part of this so far, but I trust in Gervais that this is not just a generous cameo.



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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 6/2/2013 10:41:47 PM   
Indio


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So I'm not sure about that end montage, and I'm still not overly keen on the piano on the soundtrack at every moment to underline the fact we're supposed to feel pathos for the old folk, but I thought tonight's episode was a whole lot better than last weeks - it won't win any awards, and it sure as hell won't change the mind of the legions of Gervais haters out there, but I rather enjoyed it. Maybe Special Brew have got their next TV ad already in the can

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 6/2/2013 10:46:15 PM   
Castor Troy


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I agree with all the above post except I don't think it was as strong as last week - not much of a story this time. A lot of screen time is taken up with montages and not a lot of actual 'show'. I have a feeling when the series is finished and I rewatch them then I'm gonna enjoy that Radiohead ending but it did take me by surprise a bit. Kev was great again though!

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Post #: 50
RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 7/2/2013 2:31:11 PM   
SwozTheRevenge


Posts: 225
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I really needed that end montage to remind me that old people were young once.

I'm probably not this show's target audience, but goodness me I haven't seen anything quite this bad in a while. Will stick with it as you can never have enough scenes of alcoholics shitting themselves.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 7/2/2013 9:24:39 PM   
Mister Coe

 

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Loved the pilot episode, Episode one of the series proper was pretty decent, but the second episode really tried my patience.

Kerry Godliman (did I spell that right?) is still the best part of it, Karl is a close second, but the community service girl who was pissed off to be there initially... Christ, that was so obvious right from the start that she would grow to love them, it's like something a twelve year old would write!

I'll give Mr Gervais one more episode before I give up...

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 8/2/2013 1:03:13 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe
Kerry Godliman (did I spell that right?) is still the best part of it, Karl is a close second


They are fast becoming the only reasons to watch it, although, despite the community service girl plot being obvious from the minute we saw her, I think the actress was pretty good once we got by the initial stereotypically written dumbass.

I still don't see the point in Kev.

And I counted at least 4 narrative-less montages last night, in a 25-odd minute run time. Gervais isn't even trying.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 14/2/2013 10:29:16 AM   
SwozTheRevenge


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So last night's episode taught us that Dougie steals from the elderly in the care home where he works but chastises the daughter of a recently deceased for wanting a ring she was once promised.

This show is hilarious for all the wrong reasons. I don't think I should be watching it, bad for my blood pressure.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 14/2/2013 1:46:07 PM   
superdan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SwozTheRevenge

This show is hilarious for all the wrong reasons. I don't think I should be watching it, bad for my blood pressure.


I don't know why you are watching it, you obviously can't stand it

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Post #: 55
RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 14/2/2013 7:11:45 PM   
erasheha1985

 

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Like Swoz I've found it far too mawkish and blatantly unsubtle, it's all signposted when the heart strings are supposed to be tugging, from the piano music and montages, it's too much, much in the same Gervais himself seemed to rally against traditional comedy - studio audience and laughter and so on, Derek piles on the heart felt sentiment in such obvious ways. But I gave it a go just like I did extras, which I didn't like either. But I'm sure Gervais still has some good left in him.

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Post #: 56
RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 14/2/2013 9:04:49 PM   
Mister Coe

 

Posts: 1561
Joined: 20/10/2012
Oh, here we go again... every week I spend the first 15 minutes saying to myself 'why am I watching this again?'

And then you get a moment like when Dougie went mental and foul-mouthed over the fat woman who didn't give a shit about her elderly mother... and I know I'm gonna watch it next week...

I've spent a lot of time in a nursing home like this over the last few years visiting my 96-year old grandfather and, for that reason, this show really strikes a chord with me. And I've seen a lot of people who pay a token visit once in a while whilst keeping one eye on the inheritance...

My Grandad was in a good home when he died, but if there were people like Hannah, Dougie and, yes, Derek, it would have been ever better. And that's why I'm gonna keep watching this show. Crap jokes and all. And I still think Kev is there for a reason... that last line of his just before the credits came up... that's going somewhere, I think.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 21/2/2013 9:40:16 PM   
Mister Coe

 

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Just watched the most recent episode and I think it was the best one yet. The sequence with Kev writing on the crabs... the funniest thing Gervais has done in ages.

And the bit with the new lady being welcomed into her new home... heartwarming.

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 1/3/2013 1:19:55 PM   
great_badir


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So this week's episode was basically episode 2 all over again, but with a bloke.

And Kev apologists - if the Duran Duran show was the "very good reason" that he's there, well let's just hope he doesn't come back if a second series is commissioned...

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RE: Derek - New Gervais Show - 1/3/2013 4:47:41 PM   
Quint


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Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Napa, CA
It's the last line (Derek: "You were brilliant." Deon: "No, you're brilliant, bruv.") that has stuck in my mind the most about how irritatingly unsubtle this show is. I went with it for awhile; letting the mawkishness slide and some of the really on the nose moments go (think in episode 4 when Hannah is reflecting on how her life turned out and it is intercut with an interview with Dougie talking about how great she is even if her life didn't go the way she wanted) but for some reason, that last exchange in episode 5 really bugged me and sums up all the issues with the show in my opinion. I know Gervais is proud of this but it seems like he wrote it in an afternoon on the back of a napkin; it is just so ill thought out, with every point seemingly hammered home with a 'do-gooder' smugness that totally undermines the subject matter. Also, as badir said, this latest episode is exactly the same as episode 2. When they mentioned a community worker was coming in, I just assumed it would be a minor background plot to the main episode, as I figured they had already explored that avenue... ah, but not from a male's perspective... and an ethnic minority male at that - genius!

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(in reply to great_badir)
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