What makes a great villain?

Follow @empiremagazine

Forum Home

Register for Free!

Log In

Moderator Tickets

FAQ

Users Online

What makes a great villain?

Logged in as: Guest

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Movie Musings >> What makes a great villain?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

What makes a great villain? - 16/3/2012 4:15:56 PM

sanctumest

Posts: 41
Joined: 27/1/2012

Following a discussion about Loki (Avengers) in another thread, I'm interested to see what other people like/dislike in their films bad chaps. I searched for similar topics, but if I've missed one, my apologies.

Using the Loki example, I find him too sly and weak to hold his own against The Avengers, and would like to see him more as the architect of trouble than the 'leader/king' character, unless his bitterness has unhinged him completely.

As a more human example, Gene Hackman in unforgiven was actually the towns protector, but his ruthlessness and refusal to compromise meant that his end was welcomed by me. A really rounded and well written villain.

Post #: 1

RE: What makes a great villain? - 16/3/2012 4:32:28 PM

UTB

Posts: 9049
Joined: 30/9/2005

For me what makes a great villian is their ability to convince you that they are going to come out victorious and that there's a real chance the 'hero' is going to lose/die/whatever. There's nothing worse than watching a film and just waiting to see how the hero will win like they always do.

(in reply to sanctumest)

Post #: 2

RE: What makes a great villain? - 16/3/2012 4:34:20 PM

anakin solo

Posts: 1036
Joined: 28/2/2006
From: in the force

A good villian is a one that knows the hero better, and knows how to torment him by executing loved ones or holding them to ransom.

_____________________________

my ally is the force and what a powerful ally it is.

(in reply to UTB)

Post #: 3

RE: What makes a great villain? - 16/3/2012 5:10:42 PM

Swoz_MK

Posts: 2884
Joined: 18/10/2005

Whatever the opposite of Eric Bogosian is.

(in reply to anakin solo)

Post #: 4

RE: What makes a great villain? - 16/3/2012 5:27:44 PM

Timon

Posts: 14551
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol

A British or German accent.

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to sanctumest)

Post #: 5

RE: What makes a great villain? - 16/3/2012 6:53:15 PM

Ironfistedmonk

Posts: 6
Joined: 26/11/2008

Awesomely cheesy henchmen

(in reply to Timon)

Post #: 6

RE: What makes a great villain? - 16/3/2012 7:08:20 PM

Sutty

Posts: 3541
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: the front row

Alan Rickman - Die Hard

Alan Rickman - Robin Hood Prince of Thieves

Alan Rickman - The Harry Potter movies (kind of!)

Basically Alan Rickman makes a great villian. Would have loved to see him play General Zod!

"Kneel before...............Zod."

Oh yeah!

_____________________________

"Lord, make me your instrument of peace. Where there is hatred, let me bring love.
Where there is darkness, light."

"When you're pushed, killin's as easy as breathin'"

(in reply to Ironfistedmonk)

Post #: 7

RE: What makes a great villain? - 17/3/2012 1:00:58 AM

sanctumest

Posts: 41
Joined: 27/1/2012

But why are they great? I want examples and drunken reasoning goddammit!

(in reply to Sutty)

Post #: 8

RE: What makes a great villain? - 17/3/2012 3:36:08 AM

boaby

Posts: 2795
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire

They're bad, they know it, they don't care. They're comfy with it. Happy in their own skin. Revel in it.

"I was born to do this. Now gimme all your stuff. I want it."

Gruber. Nottingham. Palpatine. Goldfinger. Swearengen. Lector.

Justification? Who needs it? Weak people, that's who.

Know thyself.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to sanctumest)

Post #: 9

RE: What makes a great villain? - 17/4/2012 8:58:18 AM

Rebel scum

Posts: 3159
Joined: 2/1/2006

The best kinds of villains usually fall into two categories:

The Suave Bastard, where you know they're evil, and they do terrible things, but they've got a level of charm and coolness to them that means that secretly you want them to succeed.There will probably be a scene where the hero does something to hinder their plans and the villain admires their persistence. Alan Rickman usually falls into this category, as does Hannibal Lecter.

The Utter Bastard, which is something of a "love to hate" thing, where they are just so horribly evil that it's impossible not to root for the heroes and hope for the villain's downfall. For example, Mrs Carmody in The Mist, or Professor Umbridge.

_____________________________

"We are not safe! A dark menace rises to the east! Duckies go quack! Cows go moo! I want ice cream. Verily, will you two hobbits join my quest?"

Post #: 10

RE: What makes a great villain? - 17/4/2012 9:16:55 AM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14752
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel scum

The best kinds of villains usually fall into two categories:

The Suave Bastard, where you know they're evil, and they do terrible things, but they've got a level of charm and coolness to them that means that secretly you want them to succeed.There will probably be a scene where the hero does something to hinder their plans and the villain admires their persistence. Alan Rickman usually falls into this category, as does Hannibal Lecter.

I would say the second category would be the villain who doesn't know they're the villain. They would be the hero in their own movies, As far as they are concernered, they are doing the right thing. And Mrs Carmody in The Mist would fall into that category

_____________________________

Extended Edition- click (Ep 6:DSLR Film-making )

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
You have a nice face, Shifty. A face I would have a cup of tea with.

(in reply to Rebel scum)

Post #: 11

RE: What makes a great villain? - 17/4/2012 10:00:31 AM

st3veebee

Posts: 2354
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: 9303 Lyon Drive

The best villain is one who can convince you that she/he truly belives his/her plan/mindset is right. Or that she/he is cuckoo for cocopops.

_____________________________

Latest Films:

Two days in New York: 4/5

Prometheus: 3.5/5

Abe Lincoln: VH 3/5

Twin Peaks: FWWM 3.5/5

(in reply to Shifty Bench)

Post #: 12

RE: What makes a great villain? - 17/4/2012 10:04:46 AM

Rebel scum

Posts: 3159
Joined: 2/1/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel scum

The best kinds of villains usually fall into two categories:

The Suave Bastard, where you know they're evil, and they do terrible things, but they've got a level of charm and coolness to them that means that secretly you want them to succeed.There will probably be a scene where the hero does something to hinder their plans and the villain admires their persistence. Alan Rickman usually falls into this category, as does Hannibal Lecter.

I would say the second category would be the villain who doesn't know they're the villain. They would be the hero in their own movies, As far as they are concernered, they are doing the right thing. And Mrs Carmody in The Mist would fall into that category

Good point, those kinds of villains are usually effective too. Thing is, they can come under either one of the categories I mentioned. So someone like George Sanders in Rebecca, who fits your definition, is a Suave Bastard, while Mrs Carmody is an Utter Bastard. But I agree, usually you can tell how good the writing is by how aware the villain is that they're the villain.

< Message edited by Rebel scum -- 17/4/2012 10:05:23 AM >

_____________________________

"We are not safe! A dark menace rises to the east! Duckies go quack! Cows go moo! I want ice cream. Verily, will you two hobbits join my quest?"

(in reply to Shifty Bench)

Post #: 13

RE: What makes a great villain? - 17/4/2012 6:33:16 PM

Spiked

Posts: 252
Joined: 27/4/2009

Hard to define. On one hand - I LOVE some villains. Does this mean the actor is giving a shit performance for not making me want to hate him/her? Then I seem to HATE some people on screen, but am I hating them for the wrong reasons? Good debate to be had here.

(in reply to Rebel scum)

Post #: 14

RE: What makes a great villain? - 17/4/2012 6:52:29 PM

Super Hans

Posts: 2307
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Watford

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

A British or German accent.

I was going to say, Alan Rickman always springs to mind in these kind of threads!

I think for me, the best villains are the real ruthless bastards, as well as intelligent and genuinely threatening.

_____________________________

"Its staring at you in the face Mark, there's only one more sex to try..."

(in reply to Timon)

Post #: 15

RE: What makes a great villain? - 17/4/2012 7:00:45 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14752
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel scum

Good point, those kinds of villains are usually effective too. Thing is, they can come under either one of the categories I mentioned. So someone like George Sanders in Rebecca, who fits your definition, is a Suave Bastard, while Mrs Carmody is an Utter Bastard. But I agree, usually you can tell how good the writing is by how aware the villain is that they're the villain.

Fair enough but there are many villains who don't actually know they are the villain so I thought it was really worth mentioning it. I think those are the best ones. The ones who believe they are doing the right thing (and in some cases they actually may be) rather than just being mustache-twirling evil. So, I would say there are 3 types of villain. The Suave Bastard, the Utter Bastard and the Bastard who doesn't know they're a Bastard......

_____________________________

Extended Edition- click (Ep 6:DSLR Film-making )

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
You have a nice face, Shifty. A face I would have a cup of tea with.

(in reply to Rebel scum)

Post #: 16

RE: What makes a great villain? - 18/4/2012 9:33:20 AM

grucl

Posts: 2434
Joined: 11/2/2008

A moustache?

(in reply to Shifty Bench)

Post #: 17

RE: What makes a great villain? - 18/4/2012 9:44:49 AM

Russ Whitfield

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012

Definitely the villain-as-hero works.

Of course all about motivation... but its also fun when the baddie is just bad for the sake of it (Zod springs to mind. He had no idea that the Son of Jor-El was on earth before he decided to make himself Ruler and inform us that our lands, our possessions and very lives be sacrificed to him... General Zod... etc etc). So he really had no motivation to rule Planet Houston at the beginning.

Maybe the most memorable villains are the over-the-top ones like Zod and (in a different style of movie) the ones you can relate to?

_____________________________

www.soldiergirlsmovie.com/
www.i-spimovie.com/

(in reply to grucl)

Post #: 18

RE: What makes a great villain? - 18/4/2012 9:14:53 PM

TolkenHobbitGuy

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/3/2012

If talking about truly scary villains, to me the ones who you don't why they are evil, are the scariest.
Some say that, that isn't scary but to me it is. I guess for me the true villains are the sort, who
don't make me go 'what a cool character, despite all the evilness' though that doesn't mean
i don't enjoy cool and slick baddies.

(in reply to Russ Whitfield)

Post #: 19

RE: What makes a great villain? - 19/4/2012 3:54:09 PM

st3veebee

Posts: 2354
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: 9303 Lyon Drive

1. Fear

2. Surprise

3. Ruthless efficiency

4. An almost fanatical devotion to the Pope

5. Nice red uniforms

_____________________________

Latest Films:

Two days in New York: 4/5

Prometheus: 3.5/5

Abe Lincoln: VH 3/5

Twin Peaks: FWWM 3.5/5

(in reply to sanctumest)

Post #: 20

RE: What makes a great villain? - 19/4/2012 5:22:14 PM

shool

Posts: 9640
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.

The killing of those who fail you.

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to st3veebee)

Post #: 21

RE: What makes a great villain? - 19/4/2012 7:41:29 PM

boaby

Posts: 2795
Joined: 29/12/2006
From: Aberdeenshire

'cept he didn't kill that minion. Tarkin - the leash holder - called him off.

Villains canna get called off. That'd involve doing what someone told them. Proper villains have none of that nonsense.

_____________________________

"Aberdonians, and with some degree of purpose and right on their side, have absolute contempt for Glasgow. There is a side of Aberdonians who, let's be absolutely honest about this, feel so superior to Glasgow that you can measure it by the yard."

(in reply to shool)

Post #: 22

RE: What makes a great villain? - 19/4/2012 10:39:51 PM

DazDaMan

Posts: 10109
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: Penicuik - a right shithole

The best villains are surely the ones with no reasoning? No remorse? No compassion? Seemingly unstoppable?

_____________________________

You fucking fuckers are gonna do what I say or I'm going to stick my foot so far up your assholes you'll rue the day you crawled out of your mother's twat!

(in reply to boaby)

Post #: 23

RE: What makes a great villain? - 20/4/2012 1:42:37 PM

ripperman