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RE: Batman after Nolan - 7/8/2012 11:32:25 AM

jobloffski

Posts: 1837
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

Warner Brothers planning for a 2016 release date.

http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/not-wasting-any-time-wb-to-bring-a-new-batman-franchise-to-theaters-in-2016

I still think rebooting it is a stupid idea.

Four years is plenty long enough, I reckon.

I also reckon they HAVE to reboot. I don't see how the efforts to create an everlasting symbol in the form of The Batman lend themselves to a JGL led fourquel. The character of Blake is also a symbol, of a person prepared to stand up for the people of Gotham.

I feel the narrative of Nolan's films were designed to end so it was irrelevant who was wearing the suit, indeed, he even has Bale say, to JGL, Batman could be anyone. Batman is the everlasting symbol in the continuity, should Gotham need Batman again, JGL, or whoever else, would just don the suit and be 'more than a man, a terrible thought, a wraith, an idea'.

People have commented that Blake would get battered if he put the suit on, due to lack of training. But the films have already established 'The training is nothing. Will is everything. The will to act'.

Blake has that, and in TDKR demonstrated the appropriate characteristics that would make him the right person to put on the suit, should Gotham need its defender (made even more powerful symbolically because if he returned, as far as people are concerned, he's returning from the dead.

There would be no sense in such story circumstances in creating a new symbol in the same continuity. Bruce's intentions have been realised. The symbol of Batman is everlasting. And since the current film has gone down the 'destroy all of Gotham' route, it's pretty much as far as you can go in raising the stakes.

TDKR introduces a potential successor, having taken the hero of the story as far as a hero can go. Even the death of Batman is symbolic. Batman is symbolic and the narrative has made the identity of the person in the suit irrelevant. All the themes set up by BB have been played out.

There is nowhere narratively left to go except down. So reboot, freeing up the entire, unused by Nolan and used by Nolan rogues gallery for reinterpretation, without the constraints of the 'realism' of Nolan.

I previously advocated 'evolution, not revolution' and suggested that recasting after TDKR could allow the fantastical elements to be introduced, continuing the theme of escalation, continuing the trope of Batman encountering something he had not faced before (so magic would work in the continuity, introduced in a way that has Batman believing it is all trickery, and placing him anew in a situation of coping with something he does not understand and has to overcome through will and tenacity)..

But IMO, TDKR is an absolute ending of an iteration of Batman. There must be a reboot. There must.

It doesn't mean that a reboot can't BEGIN from relatively continuous circumstances and it means it is possible to introduce the fantastical as simply new story developments, at a pace the audience Nolan has brought freshly to the franchise will go for, and thusly by increments the world can be opened up to other types of stories. But, again IMO, crucial to the success of the nest move WB makes is the character of Batman, played by Bruce wayne. Recast, renewed, reborn.

Symbolically, anyone can be batman, in the stories as presented by Nolan. But the movies depend on the Bruce Wayne/Batman duality, and its capacity for continual reinvention and much as James Bond needs James Bond (in fact, what N olan has done has made it reasonable to expect the audience to expect new cast = new approach just as with Bond). Spin off comics or animations featuring Blake are one thing, but 200m plus budgets for live action movies require judicious playing of one's Aces (and indeed, Jokers).

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 7/8/2012 12:01:13 PM >

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Post #: 181

RE: Batman after Nolan - 7/8/2012 1:46:22 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

It's really difficult to see where it can go from here no will ever top the TDK

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Post #: 182

RE: Batman after Nolan - 7/8/2012 7:10:19 PM

furrybastard

Posts: 5099
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland

I think it might be cool to have a sort-of prequel for Catwoman, where they do it like the Bourne films and it runs parallel but separate to the Batman films (what was Selina Kyle up to in those years?)

I'd love to see them continue with Gordon Levitt's character as well, to be honest. As in the comics, Bruce Wayne's gloomy nihilism is downright boring now and it was a hell of a lot more fun and interesting when Dick Grayson took over as Batman. I'd like to see the more detective side of Batman and the Riddler seems like a good fit for that.

Warner Bros. will probably see how things are going with Justice League before deciding on what to do.

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Post #: 183

RE: Batman after Nolan - 7/8/2012 7:27:27 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

The problem is we've had the camp, fun side, the dark side and pretty much everything in between as well. Where does Batman go from here? - all you can do really is something radical, a shift away from the comics but that would be a risk.

I'd do a Batman 2050 - a futuristic one

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Post #: 184

RE: Batman after Nolan - 7/8/2012 10:39:08 PM

Ghidorah

Posts: 2626
Joined: 6/10/2005

I think the best way to go is to skip all these origins and have a well establish Batman in Gotham. Maybe to create a story of how Tim Drake becomes Robin and explore the tense relationship between Greyson and Bruce. Warner Bros haven't explored the Bat family concept very well but then again there are too many characters hence there are too many monthly Batman comics.

Batman
Tim Drake
Dick Greyson
Batgirl but that could come later
Catwoman

Then we have the supporting members of Alfred, Gordon, Harvey(not Dent) and we have the villains as well. However there need to be a change of Batman going solo and they need to use new Robin more effective this time round.

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 185

RE: Batman after Nolan - 8/8/2012 10:22:33 AM

The Hooded Man

Posts: 2716
Joined: 12/7/2006

Would a sequel to TDKR with Blake as Batman work best as a comic?

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Post #: 186

RE: Batman after Nolan - 8/8/2012 11:35:34 AM

jon5000

Posts: 1087
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Hooded Man

Would a sequel to TDKR with Blake as Batman work best as a comic?

Leave it to the inevitable fan fiction I say!

I didn't really like the idea anyway. Kind of undermined Bruce's sacrifice as Batman slightly that he would just offer up the reigns to somebody else.

'Here, you get beaten up for a living and fuck up your personal life.'

(in reply to The Hooded Man)

Post #: 187

RE: Batman after Nolan - 8/8/2012 11:48:04 AM

st3veebee

Posts: 2354
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: 9303 Lyon Drive

I'm all up for a 2016 reboot of some sort. The Nolan films are excellent and will be bloody tough to match but a slightly different direction would eliminate what the familiarness that Amazing Spiderman is suffering from now.

Christian Bale has admitted to not being a huge fan of batman and his lack of effort clearly shows in the films for me. Don't get me wrong: he looks the part, is believable at kicking ass and is a great actor so will never be bad...but someone who clearly loves the roles more could bring create a more interesting Batman.

I think a Noir approach is best. We've done camp/fantasy and we've done realistic/dark so either a Noir or sci fi approach would be best.

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Post #: 188

RE: Batman after Nolan - 8/8/2012 11:54:20 AM

The Hooded Man

Posts: 2716
Joined: 12/7/2006

I say cast Eric Bana as Batman, Bryan Cranston as Gordon and let someone like David Fincher take the helm and go with something more akin to the 90s animated series which straddled the grit of the films without losing the fantasy element. Don't let flavour of the month talent vacuums like Ryan Reynolds, Bradley Cooper, McG or Len Wiseman near it.

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Post #: 189

RE: Batman after Nolan - 8/8/2012 1:30:13 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

Bana would actually be pretty cool - I think Bale's Batman is the definitive one, looking back at all the previous actors in the part it's the one that really sticks in the mind along with Michael Keaton.

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Post #: 190

RE: Batman after Nolan - 8/8/2012 1:51:17 PM

Rob

Posts: 2411
Joined: 30/9/2005

I love the Nolan films. They are, for me, the best live interpretations of the character so far and it's my favourite trilogy of all time.

However, I certainly don't think they are the definitive word on Batman. What I don't think we've seen yet is the blend of action and adventure mixed with a real fidelity to the source material.

Someone on another thread said that we haven't yet seen Batman in the vein of Raiders of the Lost Ark. I'd agree with that. Burton's films were very Burtonesque, Schumacher's were excessively camp (and crap) and Nolan's were fairly sombre, cerebral and realistic.

I'd like to see something similar to the Arkham Asylum / City style where you can have these larger than life characters without going into campness.

Also another thing I don't think we've ever really seen is Batman at the peak of his powers. The world's greatest detective, the man who thinks of everything, the consummate planner and the ultimate fighter.

There's so much more that the character has to offer and I think that the reboot is the only way to go.

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Post #: 191

RE: Batman after Nolan - 8/8/2012 2:52:33 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

One thing I'd like to see that, unfortunately, I don't think will ever be possible is a version of the character who can wear a practical version of the costume like seen in TDK and TDKR, but with enough flexibility that a live action Batman can finally show off how much of an amazing martial artist he is.
Unfortunately, I think even the greatest martial artist would have trouble moving in a costume, so it looks like to get authentic Batman fighting we'll have to stick to playing the Arkham games.

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Post #: 192

RE: Batman after Nolan - 8/8/2012 3:53:43 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

One thing I'd like to see that, unfortunately, I don't think will ever be possible is a version of the character who can wear a practical version of the costume like seen in TDK and TDKR, but with enough flexibility that a live action Batman can finally show off how much of an amazing martial artist he is.

Your gonna have to really put the work in with high quality CGI - I would love to see Batman flinging himself about in some more mental athletic fight scenes in future films because Nolan's really done it all when it comes to brutal realistic punch ups.

Shift away from gritty reality (because no one will top Nolan/ Bale for that) and re-inject more fantasy.

(in reply to AxlReznor)

Post #: 193

RE: Batman after Nolan - 9/8/2012 9:42:41 PM

furrybastard

Posts: 5099
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

One thing I'd like to see that, unfortunately, I don't think will ever be possible is a version of the character who can wear a practical version of the costume like seen in TDK and TDKR, but with enough flexibility that a live action Batman can finally show off how much of an amazing martial artist he is.

Your gonna have to really put the work in with high quality CGI - I would love to see Batman flinging himself about in some more mental athletic fight scenes in future films because Nolan's really done it all when it comes to brutal realistic punch ups.

Has he? Nolan's fight scenes were absolutely the weakest aspect of his Batman films. In Begins and DK, you can't actually see what's going on and though things improved in DKR, I don't think they were anything to write home about. The suit probably makes it very difficult to shoot a realistic or brutal fight scene, admittedly.

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Post #: 194

RE: Batman after Nolan - 9/8/2012 10:13:32 PM

Dirk Miggler

Posts: 825
Joined: 14/1/2009

Would anyone be interested in a comic book/graphic novel sequel to DKR ?

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Post #: 195

RE: Batman after Nolan - 9/8/2012 10:34:56 PM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: st3veebee

Christian Bale has admitted to not being a huge fan of batman and his lack of effort clearly shows in the films for me. Don't get me wrong: he looks the part, is believable at kicking ass and is a great actor so will never be bad...but someone who clearly loves the roles more could bring create a more interesting Batman.

Lack of effort? Doesn't love the role enough? This is crazy talk, old son.

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Post #: 196

RE: Batman after Nolan - 10/8/2012 11:48:58 AM

Invader_Ace

Posts: 1523
Joined: 31/7/2008

Thing is, as much as I'd like them to. They will never go with a Batman that isn't Bruce Wayne. Never. It's the same thing that has hamstrung the comics for years and always will.

Sure they hand it over to Nightwing or someone everynow and again, but Bruce always comes back. That's why I didn't give a flying fuck when they announced his death a while back. It's meaningless.

No more origin tales please, that's all I ask. Ever. For any Superhero Franchise. So borning. Just start with Gotham, Batman already up and running and that's it. Then introduce Man-Bat. MAN-BAT Goddamnit!

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Post #: 197

RE: Batman after Nolan - 10/8/2012 12:11:59 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

The thing with his "death" in the comics, is that Grant Morrison never intended killing him. It was all part of a larger plot that left the DC Universe thinking he was dead, but with him actually caught in some kind of time vortex. DC's marketing people decided to market it as the "Death of Batman", only for the whole marketing thing to be rendered meaningless in the last panels of Final Crisis when you saw Bruce alive in a cave.

That whole period with Dick Grayson becoming Batman did lead to some of the most interesting Batman stories in years, though.

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Post #: 198

RE: Batman after Nolan - 10/8/2012 1:25:09 PM

ripperman

Posts: 134
Joined: 3/10/2007

Yup I mentioned this too. A film where Batman is already established, more gothic comic oriented, similar to Arkham Asylum/City so no origin is needed. I mean honestly everyone knows who Batman is at this stage. It doesn't need to be done again. As regards villains I would play it safe. Ease people in using riddler or penguin. Going mad with the more fantastical villains like Man Bat, Clayface or even freeze in a 1st film reboot would be ludicrous and could potentially alienate a more casual and or grown up Nolan audience who know and like his realistic take on the characters. Once the new Batman world is setup and people are comfortable with it, then introduce these elements perhaps. Otherwise it would be box office suicide.

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Post #: 199

RE: Batman after Nolan - 10/8/2012 1:27:49 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

I said before do something radical - reboot it with the Joker as a woman and Batman copping off with her! It would add something when he battles her knowing he has feelings for someone he might have to kill

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Post #: 200

RE: Batman after Nolan - 10/8/2012 1:58:38 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

I said before do something radical - reboot it with the Joker as a woman and Batman copping off with her! It would add something when he battles her knowing he has feelings for someone he might have to kill

That would be awful. Why change the gender and dynamic of the relationship with the Joker when that ground is already very well trodden with both Catwoman and Talia al Ghul.

I'd personally prefer a high quality TV show, which will allow for more character development and longer plots. But we all know Batman's far more lucrative as a movie franchise, so maybe introduce Hush? Or first introduced Riddler (more Wally Wingert in the Arkham games than previous incarnations) for movie one, then introduce Hush in a two movie arc.

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Post #: 201

RE: Batman after Nolan - 10/8/2012 2:12:12 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

I said before do something radical - reboot it with the Joker as a woman and Batman copping off with her! It would add something when he battles her knowing he has feelings for someone he might have to kill

That would be awful. Why change the gender and dynamic of the relationship with the Joker when that ground is already very well trodden with both Catwoman and Talia al Ghul.

It's not well trodden on film though - in all the Batman movies the only relationship which really sticks in the mind is the one with Holmes/ Gyllenhall.

It doesn't necessarily have to be the Joker you could turn a few of the baddies into girls, The Riddler for one.

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Post #: 202

RE: Batman after Nolan - 10/8/2012 2:19:43 PM

Dirk Miggler

Posts: 825
Joined: 14/1/2009

I agree with the reboot, origin has been done and I honestly can't see it being done better and yeah I think it's pretty nailed on to be Riddler or Penguin if there is one for the reasons mentioned above.

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Post #: 203

RE: Batman after Nolan - 12/8/2012 1:52:52 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

Don't know if any of this has been covered here already, but if Warner wanted to reboot straight away they're not exactly short of unproduced Bat-scripts gathering dust on the shelf.

Still smarting from the bat-estrophic Batman & Robin, if not in a state of shock (they weren't the only ones!) Batman Begins eventually emerged out of a confusing lineup of competing Bat-scripts. There was Mark Protosevich's Batman Triumphant, Andrew Kevin Walker's Batman V Superman (which could be made to fit in with Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy if continuity floats yer boat), Paul Dini's live action Batman Beyond and George Miller's JLA which has been around for ever!

But most intriguing and tantalising of all was Darren Aronofsky's proposed Batman: Year One adaptation, mainly cos Frank Miller himself took the sort of liberties with his own material which would have got another writer lynched! Jim Gordon is a suicidal, burnt-out Serpico, and Bruce Wayne is more Rorschach than Batman - a backstreet vigilante (initially in a Jason Voorhees hockey mask!) complete with Travis Bickle voice-over. Somehow unaware he is heir to the Wayne fortune (traumatised by his parents' murder presumably), young Bruce is taken in by auto-repair shop owner "Big Al," and the Batmobile is a converted Lincoln Continental. I swear I'm not making this up! Grud only knows what the fanboys would have made of it...

Even the dreaded Schumacher wanted to make amends for his Bat-trocity with a gritty, low-budget Batman: Year One "for the fans"! Somehow I doubt the fans would have appreciated it...

But it's gotta be JLA all the way next. Following The Avengers' phenomenal (Bat-besting?) success I don't see how Warner/DC will be able to resist. But after the crushing disappointment that was Green Lantern, will they be putting all their super-eggs in the one geostationary orbiting basket? (The reason Batman V Superman was ultimately shelved.) My money's on Armie Hammer for Bats, BTW. But, please God, anyone but Josh Hartnet for Supes! (Zack Snyder has officially confirmed that, like The Dark Knight Trilogy, The Man of Steel will have NOTHING to do with JLA continuity.)

Or they could give Sandy Collora (Cholera!?!) - the Batman: Dead End guy - a go...

You can read about all the tortuous ins and outs of this in, EMPIRE stalwart, David Hughes' superb book, Tales From Development Hell. Its companion volume, The Greatest Sci-Fi Movies Never Made, is also excellent. "Read it and weep," EMPIRE said. Absolutely goddamn right!

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Post #: 204

RE: Batman after Nolan - 12/8/2012 1:57:17 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

One thing I'd like to see that, unfortunately, I don't think will ever be possible is a version of the character who can wear a practical version of the costume like seen in TDK and TDKR, but with enough flexibility that a live action Batman can finally show off how much of an amazing martial artist he is.

Your gonna have to really put the work in with high quality CGI - I would love to see Batman flinging himself about in some more mental athletic fight scenes in future films because Nolan's really done it all when it comes to brutal realistic punch ups.

Shift away from gritty reality (because no one will top Nolan/ Bale for that) and re-inject more fantasy.

Yup. Nolan's done the "gritty, realistic" version. Burton did the "Goth" version. Time to go down a different, more shamelessly comic-book-y fantasy route. Like The Avengers. JLA in other words.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 12/8/2012 1:58:14 PM >

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Post #: 205

RE: Batman after Nolan - 12/8/2012 2:52:15 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

What do you feel about the use of CGI to take Batman's fighting to a different level - you can then cutaway to a wider shot of him kicking the shit out of baddies as well as using various bat gadgets at the same time.

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Post #: 206

RE: Batman after Nolan - 12/8/2012 4:04:41 PM

OPEN YOUR EYES

Posts: 3467
Joined: 5/2/2012
From: Living on Lynch's quiff

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

One thing I'd like to see that, unfortunately, I don't think will ever be possible is a version of the character who can wear a practical version of the costume like seen in TDK and TDKR, but with enough flexibility that a live action Batman can finally show off how much of an amazing martial artist he is.

Your gonna have to really put the work in with high quality CGI - I would love to see Batman flinging himself about in some more mental athletic fight scenes in future films because Nolan's really done it all when it comes to brutal realistic punch ups.

Shift away from gritty reality (because no one will top Nolan/ Bale for that) and re-inject more fantasy.

Yup. Nolan's done the "gritty, realistic" version. Burton did the "Goth" version. Time to go down a different, more shamelessly comic-book-y fantasy route. Like The Avengers. JLA in other words.

I just cant look past that family-orientated avenue for the new Batman films,everything almost points to that direction in my opinion.
I don't see anything wrong with that, aslong as they aren't OTT camp like the Joel Schumacher films.
If the new batman films want to go down such route then there comic publishing rivals (marvel) are possibly the best way of direction.
And as we've seen from the Marvel films it can be easily accomplished with the right director,script and production crew,but we've also seen the bad in the form of DC's own Green Lantern.

< Message edited by OPEN YOUR EYES -- 12/8/2012 4:09:45 PM >

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Post #: 207

RE: Batman after Nolan - 12/8/2012 6:00:59 PM

vad3r

Posts: 4229
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ

Batman after Nolan? Simple.

ARKHAM.

Nolan's Gotham is no different to L.A or NY.

I want to see the Arkham of Arkham City. Dirty, grimy, thugs and prostitutes aplenty, corruptness, steam, brown filters, sewers, tunnels, prisons, asylums etc

I want Penguin, Joker, Harley Quinn and Riddler all involved.

I don't want Gordon or any other side characters or love interests. Just Batman, Alfred and villains. No bat vehicles either.

PLEASE make it happen.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

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Post #: 208

RE: Batman after Nolan - 12/8/2012 6:22:28 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18889
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

How about we leave it for a decade and then see where to take it.

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Post #: 209

RE: Batman after Nolan - 12/8/2012 6:27:26 PM

OPEN YOUR EYES

Posts: 3467
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