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Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 8:37:23 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/53463

Will this be better or worse than Outcasts when it comes to BSG knock-offs?

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RE: Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 11:03:10 AM   
Sotto Voce

 

Posts: 803
Joined: 5/9/2009
Enough potential there, though I did wonder about the feasibility of the premise of the show.
Is that remotely possible?


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RE: Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 11:07:06 AM   
JIm R

 

Posts: 9185
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Surrey
I loved the original when it was on television in the 70's. God knows how they thought we'd be inhabiting the moon by 1999 but heh there you go
 
No to this idea thanks very much.

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Post #: 3
RE: Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 11:40:42 AM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1894
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
Would have to be very poor indeed to be a bigger mess than Outcasts. And wasn't 1999 more of a Star Trek knock off (crew on single 'craft' which happened in this case to be the moon, moving through space, encountering weekly weirdness to interrupt the routine of the crew)?

Cheesy as the original show is now, it had some cool 'toys' weapon and ship wise. And as long as not played for kitsch value, or cast too uniformly young, why not give it a go?

A major problem among the many major problems with Outcasts was the way it would refer to there being thousands of people living in the settlement and major past events motivating whatever was being built towards, but relaying this through incredibly poorly conceived characters who had no time to actually BE characters because they had too much exposition about the past, the unseen society they were administering and overacting about how dramatic the stuff happening was supposed to be, and appearing to be total fucking idiots despite supposedly being the upper echelon of their society.

It tried to create the illusion of being a much bigger show than it actually was via offscreen events and continual dialogue references to a past apparently much more dramatic than it's present, and continual dialogue references to how dramatic things might get, again, more dramatic than the present, resutling in what the show actually showed being half arsed, because it seemed to be treated as an afterthought. It was seriously infected with 'when is something gong to happen' disease.

Had the first series involved the core cast establishing the colony and the needy populace orbiting the planet needing them to be successful, and then portraying the stuff chatted about it might have stood a chance, because there would have been a 'wild frontier/sense of discovery vibe' portrayed instead of chatted about, and Outcasts wouldn't have seemed like a second series level of situational development, weighed down by the need for exposition to continually tell people what was going on because it was in fact, the first series, whe it should have been establishing the characters/sitiation and not skipping over the very thing that makes a series work after apparently erroneously thinking sci fi shows rely only on recurring tropes, not their characters.

Also, traditional storytelling in this sort of thing (well, most sorts of things actually) has a situation that is up and running, a normality that is established, that is then decimated by some event that throws everything into chaos, creating something that has to dealt with/withstood.

Stuff like BSG, even duffers like Voyager, is built around a core concept that arises from such a routine decimating event, and this core conept is totally clear, and acts as the solid foundation upon which everything else can stand, whatever happens week to week, the core concept is returned to.

Outcasts didn't have this, it was too vague in terms of the history of the situation and what was going on week to week AND went for immediate complicated relations between characters without first having the relationships that were being complicated ever established. While the 'Treks' similarly referred to a larger number of people being on board than were ever on the screen, they did have the week to week solid plot/resolution structure for the crew to go through. Outcasts didn't have this, or at least didn't have it in any way that made it feel like something was actually happening (it tried to make it seem everything was at sake, all the time, which is counter intuitive in a genre that generally requires a totally solid basis at the start and then years to layer in the complications).

Space 1999 had the major event at the start kicking off and creating the core concept of the show, and then it had the relative normality of it's core situation/cast of characters and ideal version of their routine maintained to create the situation/set up, to be interrupted by the story of the week, thrown into chaos and then returned to.

So as long as proper effort is made in the character creation/devlopment/relationships so that you can believe these people belong together and could work together on a normal, non chaotic day in their lives (post moon orbit slippage!) there should be little chance of an Outcasts level disaster, because above all else that's what Outcasts skimped on. It almost doesn't matter how ridiculous the core concept is, as long as the characters appear to be in THEIR real world and THEY react to what is happening as people living in that real world would react.

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 10/2/2012 11:43:32 AM >


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RE: Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 1:19:00 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 6985
Joined: 18/11/2006
as long they keep that funky barry gray theme tune.

'this episode.....'

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Post #: 5
RE: Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 3:56:02 PM   
TUCK PENDLETON


Posts: 264
Joined: 30/9/2005
I always liked the Gerry Anderson stuff, as they always had cool ships/cars/planes etc and were always blowing stuff up. 
 
As I grew up in the 70s this was my favourite show of that time (although now much older, I prefer UFO).  It was a bit po faced and humourless at times, but it still had some great episodes (Dragon's Domain being a highlight), plus some fantastic model work and effects from Brian Johnson. 
 
At the time it was most the most expensive TV show ever made, and now watching it on Blu-ray, you can see where the money went.  As, already stated, the FX were cinema quaility (George Lucas was so impressed with them he wanted Johnson for Star Wars, but due to him being tied up with 1999, he didnt get him until Empire). the sets are impressive, and some fairly big names of the time pop up in various episodes.  From a production stand point its only the flares and platform shoes, and dodgy 70s haircut that really dates it now.
 
Shame it all went down hill in season two....!
 
As for a remake, as long as its done well, and they keep the Eagle design as it is, then why not.  But the signs are not great, as the team behind the recent dismal V remake are involved.  But, then again, like the long in production UFO movie, this will probably never reach the screen.
 
By the way, has anybody seen the 10 minute Fanderson continuation, with Zienna Merton sitting in a small recreated part of Moonbase Alpha explaining what happened to the Alphan's after we left them at the end of S2?  You can find it on Youtube.
 
 

< Message edited by TUCK PENDLETON -- 10/2/2012 4:03:30 PM >


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RE: Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 6:06:14 PM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6716
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sotto Voce

Enough potential there, though I did wonder about the feasibility of the premise of the show.
Is that remotely possible?



For the moon to go shooting off into space? Do you want an answer to that? Do you? Do you really?

That aside, I'll doubtless watch with high expectations; it's not like there are many (any??) space set shows on right now.

Isn't the first series of the original pretty decent, then the second one a load of nonsense due to studio pressure to change things? And does it hold up? I've not seen it in years. Surely ITV4'll re-run it shortly.

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Post #: 7
RE: Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 7:38:23 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1894
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Black

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sotto Voce

Enough potential there, though I did wonder about the feasibility of the premise of the show.
Is that remotely possible?



For the moon to go shooting off into space? Do you want an answer to that? Do you? Do you really?

That aside, I'll doubtless watch with high expectations; it's not like there are many (any??) space set shows on right now.

Isn't the first series of the original pretty decent, then the second one a load of nonsense due to studio pressure to change things? And does it hold up? I've not seen it in years. Surely ITV4'll re-run it shortly.


From my instant premise creator (aka the top of my head)

Decades ago, Life on earth all but wiped out, by an massive asteroid that those on moonbases alpha and beta were supposed to be able to destroy with weapons launched from the moon. Miscalculations about the density of the asteroid (or best calculations with available info) didn't reckon on the rock being almost a dozen times more dense than lead, and the moonbases populations watched in horror as the rock collided with the earth, splintering, but not destroying the earths crust, in the event causing meteorological reactions that almost wiped out life on earth. The plan, almost fifty years from conception to enaction, failed.

The mission of the moonbases in the decades that followed has been to develop and manufacture the means to return to earth to try and help the remains of the human race. During this time further generations of descendants have been borne descendants have been born and to them, the moon is home, as it is to those who have become accustomed to living there. The moonbases have become a fully functional society.

Fate being a cruel bitch, when the tech is ready for testing the fractures in the earth finally seperate and the old trauma of seeing the asteroid hit the earth is both relived by the oldies and brought home to the younger characters who have no life on earth to remember when a chunk of the earth destroys moonbase beta.

With no planet to orbit, there is nothing to keep the moon where it was, it has shot off at it's usual speed, forever going forward in space. It is only luck that the moon is not spinning in a manner that would wreck alpha (which isn't any less reliant on luck than us being able to survive on this rick in space.

The continuing mission of moonbase alpha society: To surivie. monitor the way ahead for the moon, for things that might get in its way and blasting whatever does get in its way. They can only hope that the vastness of space will be kind to them, and they never find themselves heading towards a planet. They cannot guarantee this and science division devotes some resources to adjusting the weapons the once hoped could have destroyed the asteroid to, as a last resort, seek to destroy any object in their way. Holy moral dilemma, if they ever have to destroy another planet and all life on it to ensure their own survival.

The last member of the human race, the residents of moonbase alpha, keep as normal a society going as they can. They never know what they may be heading towards, or what may be heading towards them. The must go out of their way to ensure they do not succumb to 'the blues', because they must, must, must, maintain their determination to survive. Those who succumb to the blues have a dangerous tendency to become suicidal, sometimes on behalf of the entire base (reverse ego scenario: I must bring this to an end and spare all the harshness we may eventually encounter).

The efforts to stave off the blues mean that a rather regimented society develops, with compulsory fun activities. So the mood of the base, in between crisis events (which just happen to arise every week to suit a tv series format) is surprisingly chipper, though naturally some are slightly half arsed and sarky about the compulsory fun.

So, a BSG kinda sorta thing, but with a twist: the moon is travelling at a constant velocity, and they cannot do anything about that, but hang on for dear life. Potential for lightness and heaviness established, mystery, fun, danger, excitement, possible final extinction of the human race, who knows what this weeks episode will bring...

There you go, a reason for the moon to be flying through space, and a totally solid, easily relatable core concept to build the characters upon, and the moon, hurtling through space at thousands of miles per hour, towards...whatever it happens across. No home to look for, no control over where they are going, and given that literal impetus for the situation, no need for a bad guy to threaten them. They are technically on the edge of extinction all the time, their precious home being the potential destroyer of them all.

First series posited upon how people cope with the situation, for a good section of the series, until the core dilemma is no longer enough itself to keep up interest and characters have bedded in enough to be able to withstand freak/scenario of the week plotting.

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 10/2/2012 7:51:28 PM >


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Captain Black)
Post #: 8
RE: Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 7:57:20 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12182
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: JIm R

I loved the original when it was on television in the 70's. God knows how they thought we'd be inhabiting the moon by 1999 but heh there you go

You'd think they'd have learnt their lesson by now.

(in reply to JIm R)
Post #: 9
RE: Space 2099 - 10/2/2012 10:12:19 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
Crikey - I came in here to tell you you'd messed the title up.

Now I'm just terrified. I loved Space 1999 growing up. Not Blake's 7 level love of course - Bergman was a bit pissy, but not a patch on Avon. It was very odd seeing Landau in proper grown up stuff after this.

Not much info other than ITV and the person who did the V reboot. Um,


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Post #: 10
RE: Space 2099 - 13/2/2012 12:06:45 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 6985
Joined: 18/11/2006
keep gerry in the loop on this.
he got screwed over 'thunderbirds' film and his otherwise excellent 'new capt scarlett' was messed about with by itv.

glen larson was credited on bsg.

< Message edited by spark1 -- 14/2/2012 11:49:51 AM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Space 2099 - 13/2/2012 2:52:04 PM   
Sotto Voce

 

Posts: 803
Joined: 5/9/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Black

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sotto Voce

Enough potential there, though I did wonder about the feasibility of the premise of the show.
Is that remotely possible?



For the moon to go shooting off into space? Do you want an answer to that? Do you? Do you really?

That aside, I'll doubtless watch with high expectations; it's not like there are many (any??) space set shows on right now.

Isn't the first series of the original pretty decent, then the second one a load of nonsense due to studio pressure to change things? And does it hold up? I've not seen it in years. Surely ITV4'll re-run it shortly.


From my instant premise creator (aka the top of my head)

Decades ago, Life on earth all but wiped out, by an massive asteroid that those on moonbases alpha and beta were supposed to be able to destroy with weapons launched from the moon. Miscalculations about the density of the asteroid (or best calculations with available info) didn't reckon on the rock being almost a dozen times more dense than lead, and the moonbases populations watched in horror as the rock collided with the earth, splintering, but not destroying the earths crust, in the event causing meteorological reactions that almost wiped out life on earth. The plan, almost fifty years from conception to enaction, failed.

The mission of the moonbases in the decades that followed has been to develop and manufacture the means to return to earth to try and help the remains of the human race. During this time further generations of descendants have been borne descendants have been born and to them, the moon is home, as it is to those who have become accustomed to living there. The moonbases have become a fully functional society.

Fate being a cruel bitch, when the tech is ready for testing the fractures in the earth finally seperate and the old trauma of seeing the asteroid hit the earth is both relived by the oldies and brought home to the younger characters who have no life on earth to remember when a chunk of the earth destroys moonbase beta.

With no planet to orbit, there is nothing to keep the moon where it was, it has shot off at it's usual speed, forever going forward in space. It is only luck that the moon is not spinning in a manner that would wreck alpha (which isn't any less reliant on luck than us being able to survive on this rick in space.

The continuing mission of moonbase alpha society: To surivie. monitor the way ahead for the moon, for things that might get in its way and blasting whatever does get in its way. They can only hope that the vastness of space will be kind to them, and they never find themselves heading towards a planet. They cannot guarantee this and science division devotes some resources to adjusting the weapons the once hoped could have destroyed the asteroid to, as a last resort, seek to destroy any object in their way. Holy moral dilemma, if they ever have to destroy another planet and all life on it to ensure their own survival.

The last member of the human race, the residents of moonbase alpha, keep as normal a society going as they can. They never know what they may be heading towards, or what may be heading towards them. The must go out of their way to ensure they do not succumb to 'the blues', because they must, must, must, maintain their determination to survive. Those who succumb to the blues have a dangerous tendency to become suicidal, sometimes on behalf of the entire base (reverse ego scenario: I must bring this to an end and spare all the harshness we may eventually encounter).

The efforts to stave off the blues mean that a rather regimented society develops, with compulsory fun activities. So the mood of the base, in between crisis events (which just happen to arise every week to suit a tv series format) is surprisingly chipper, though naturally some are slightly half arsed and sarky about the compulsory fun.

So, a BSG kinda sorta thing, but with a twist: the moon is travelling at a constant velocity, and they cannot do anything about that, but hang on for dear life. Potential for lightness and heaviness established, mystery, fun, danger, excitement, possible final extinction of the human race, who knows what this weeks episode will bring...

There you go, a reason for the moon to be flying through space, and a totally solid, easily relatable core concept to build the characters upon, and the moon, hurtling through space at thousands of miles per hour, towards...whatever it happens across. No home to look for, no control over where they are going, and given that literal impetus for the situation, no need for a bad guy to threaten them. They are technically on the edge of extinction all the time, their precious home being the potential destroyer of them all.

First series posited upon how people cope with the situation, for a good section of the series, until the core dilemma is no longer enough itself to keep up interest and characters have bedded in enough to be able to withstand freak/scenario of the week plotting.


Don't know if that quite works.  Wouldn't the moon still be stuck in orbit around something? Either the sun, or the nearest planet? To propel the moon off into space with any speed, whatever destroys Earth would have to produce a pretty incredible amount of force.


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Post #: 12
RE: Space 2099 - 13/2/2012 3:02:34 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
It would likely establish its own orbit around the sun - any push would have to be sufficient to push it beyond the gravitational pull of both the sun and any larger body it came close to on the way out of the systerm.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 13
RE: Space 2099 - 13/2/2012 8:50:47 PM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6716
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think so - and then there's the question of how much force is required to push it out: would need to be so large it'd damage/destroy the moon anyway?

Getting past that, if the moon did go shooting off into space, anything set not-on-the-moon would be really boring as space is, well, it's a big place, if you don't have a warp/hyper/whatever drive.

I will still watch this show, even if they ignore all of that and use an identical set up to the original.


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Post #: 14
RE: Space 2099 - 14/2/2012 1:10:52 AM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1894
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
Did say what I suggested was off the top of my head.

Um, the vastness of space offering little to run into can easily be gotten around: a wormhole event with the moon ending up in much much deeper space/encountering random phenomena undetectable by earth technology, limited as it is to what knowledge earthlings have, and beings from other parts of the universe investigating what the anomalous object they detect is, and if they are from different parts of the universe, with wildly differing form/technology, they could all leave to investigate the exact moment the moon shoots off, and would arrive at different times, perhaps encountering each other along the way sometimes, and conflicts breaking out between them. So, as well as being a harsh place to survive on, a potential planet destroying object itself and a means to explore human psychology in extreme circumstances, the moon leaving its orbit could upset the order of the universe.

And other such bollocks!


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Captain Black)
Post #: 15
RE: Space 2099 - 14/2/2012 5:28:49 AM   
Sotto Voce

 

Posts: 803
Joined: 5/9/2009
Like the wormhole idea. Maybe they should lose the idea of the moon being physically launched off into space, and just do it with wormholes. Say they're doing experiments on the moon base trying to work out how to create wormholes to use for space travel. They accidentally create a massive wormhole, and the moon falls through. Instead of just drifting through space, they periodically create a wormhole, and wind up somewhere else. But it takes a long time to set up a wormhole, so if they find something is on collision course with the moon, they can't always just wormhole themselves out of the way.

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Post #: 16
RE: Space 2099 - 15/2/2012 3:38:59 PM   
Cruisecontroller


Posts: 4439
Joined: 28/4/2006
I used to watch the repeats of the show on Saturday mornings in the early 80's and loved the shape shifting female alien Maya in the second series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKiIYvWIUj0

They went to a alien planet called Luton as well!  Remake might work well see. I wish they`d remake in a good way Sapphire & Steel but that`s another thread!

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Post #: 17
RE: Space 2099 - 15/2/2012 4:55:44 PM   
Cruisecontroller


Posts: 4439
Joined: 28/4/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: TUCK PENDLETON

I 

By the way, has anybody seen the 10 minute Fanderson continuation, with Zienna Merton sitting in a small recreated part of Moonbase Alpha explaining what happened to the Alphan's after we left them at the end of S2?  You can find it on Youtube.
 
 


Here it is "Message From Moonbase Alpha".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKiIYvWIUj0

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Last five movies seen & rated by me.

1.12 Years A Slave. 4/5
2.Robocop. (1987) 3/5
3.Devils Due.3/5
4.American Hustle. 4/5
5.Paranormal Activity: The Marked Ones. 3/5

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Post #: 18
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