RE: Star Wars saga 3D

Follow @empiremagazine

Forum Home

Register for Free!

Log In

Moderator Tickets

FAQ

Users Online

RE: Star Wars saga 3D

Logged in as: Guest

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Future Films >> RE: Star Wars saga 3D

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 10/2/2012 1:02:06 PM

spark1

Posts: 5789
Joined: 18/11/2006

1st review at-

http://www.mania.com/mania-review-phantom-menace-3d_article_132147.html

(in reply to kargon)

Post #: 31

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 11/2/2012 9:50:58 AM

Wild about Wilder

Posts: 1485
Joined: 9/4/2010
From: Hertfordshire

Unsurprisingly Kermode tore it to shreads in his review.

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 32

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 11/2/2012 12:24:34 PM

spark1

Posts: 5789
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild about Wilder

Unsurprisingly Kermode tore it to shreads in his review.

stupid, ill informed rant to his faithfull-

it opened in US to $22mil-

http://www.deadline.com/2012/02/strong-midnights-star-wars-3d-phantom-menace-1-1m-the-vow-700k-safe-house-530k/#more-229251

(in reply to Wild about Wilder)

Post #: 33

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 11/2/2012 5:17:00 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild about Wilder

Unsurprisingly Kermode tore it to shreads in his review.

stupid, ill informed rant to his faithfull-

Or maybe he just said it like it is and you don't want to hear it? Personally I thought he was spot on and kudos for speaking his mind knowing full well the fanboy wrath he'll be getting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16QGd04DzC8

quote:

it opened in US to $22mil-
http://www.deadline.com/2012/02/strong-midnights-star-wars-3d-phantom-menace-1-1m-the-vow-700k-safe-house-530k/#more-229251

Great, more money to fund the next round of special editions.

< Message edited by Spaldron -- 11/2/2012 5:19:03 PM >

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 34

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 11/2/2012 5:25:57 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1637
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spaldron

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild about Wilder

Unsurprisingly Kermode tore it to shreads in his review.

stupid, ill informed rant to his faithfull-

Or maybe he just said it like it is and you don't want to hear it? Personally I thought he was spot on and kudos for speaking his mind knowing full well the fanboy wrath he'll be getting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16QGd04DzC8

quote:

it opened in US to $22mil-
http://www.deadline.com/2012/02/strong-midnights-star-wars-3d-phantom-menace-1-1m-the-vow-700k-safe-house-530k/#more-229251

Great, more money to fund the next round of special editions.

Or maybe Kermode is dead set against 3D and doesnt like any of the SW films? Which is fine as thats his opinion.And this is Kermode, he doesnt give a damn about what people think of his rants.I do like the man and agree with his rants on the likes of Transformers and POTC, but i thought that revew was particularly biased and his problem with the one word use of ''Taxation'' made him sound like a thick eejit.

And the fact thats its opened so well proves how popular the film is with the public despite the constant moaning of the haters over the years.

< Message edited by Cool Breeze -- 11/2/2012 5:28:20 PM >

_____________________________

'' Sir Godfrey, on a mission, i AM expected to sacrifice myself ! ''

(in reply to Spaldron)

Post #: 35

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 11/2/2012 6:19:20 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

Red Letter Media just put out a new Mr Plinkett commentary track to TPM.

http://redlettermedia.com/phantom-phriday-mr-plinketts-phantom-menace-commentary-track/

And have just re posted the classic review......in 3D!

http://redlettermedia.com/phantom-phriday-all-sorts-of-phanton-menace-related-junk/

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 36

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 10:31:36 AM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild about Wilder

Unsurprisingly Kermode tore it to shreads in his review.

stupid, ill informed rant to his faithfull-

Ill-informed? How so?

(I haven't heard it, but unless Kermode hasn't actually seen the film then I fail to see how it could be "uninformed")

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 12/2/2012 10:38:25 AM >

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 37

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 10:36:47 AM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

And the fact thats its opened so well proves how popular the film is with the public despite the constant moaning of the haters over the years.

Clutching at straws there surely Silas? I like The Phantom Menace, but citing box office in the face of the critical reaction as some kind of "I was right all along" type punchline to a 12 year running argument strikes me as a little bit much.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 38

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 11:40:22 AM

spark1

Posts: 5789
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild about Wilder

Unsurprisingly Kermode tore it to shreads in his review.

stupid, ill informed rant to his faithfull-

Ill-informed? How so?

(I haven't heard it, but unless Kermode hasn't actually seen the film then I fail to see how it could be "uninformed")

stuck on the idea that ep 1 begins with backstory?
all the SW films begin this way.

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 39

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 11:52:07 AM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Ill-informed? How so?

(I haven't heard it, but unless Kermode hasn't actually seen the film then I fail to see how it could be "uninformed")

stuck on the idea that ep 1 begins with backstory?
all the SW films begin this way.

That doesn't really amount to him being "ill-informed" tho, but simply that he has an opinion on the content of the film under scrutiny (after all, he is a film reviewer, reviewing the film in question). I don't really understand your criticism that he's "stuck on the idea that ep 1 begins with backstory", as that (backstory) is an accurate evaluation of what Episode 1 actually is.

As a fan of the film I have to say that I am inclined to agree with him, and I think you seem to be missing his point - the backstory of the film goes back too far (he isn't talking about the immediate opening moments of the film, the scroll, which is what you seem to be implying his complaint is with [as per your "all the SW films begin this way" remark]).

I would rather have seen three films temporally connected in the same way that the original trilogy are, with a matter of wells/months before each film, as opposed to the way in which TPM is set over a decade before CLONES. As a result the prequel trilogy have a feeling of disconnection that we don't get with the original trilogy. In short, there is far too much backstory, in the sense that it brings in information that isn't particularly exciting/useful. Save the trade embargoes for the expanded universe.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 12/2/2012 11:56:09 AM >

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 40

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 12:03:18 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1637
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

The SW universe has a HUGE backstory that spans thousands of years.The film series has to begin somewhere and has to refer to what is currently happening in the SW galaxy.The opening crawl of EP1 does this like all the other films.Kermode also gets hung up on the one word use of Taxation.The film is very easy to follow but has subtle clues as to what is really going on in the grander scheme of things.Did Kermode want the whole films plot written out in crayon so he could understand it?

I took my 12 year old nephew to see it yesterday and he absolutely loved it.

_____________________________

'' Sir Godfrey, on a mission, i AM expected to sacrifice myself ! ''

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 41

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 12:22:47 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The SW universe has a HUGE backstory that spans thousands of years.The film series has to begin somewhere and has to refer to what is currently happening in the SW galaxy.The opening crawl of EP1 does this like all the other films.

Kermode wasn't criticising the fact that there was an opening scrawl, but the content of the scroll, which, even as a fan of the film, I can admit is a problematic piece of exposition. It's dull, and did a pretty great job of flattening any sense of anticipation that might have built prior to that point (i.e. the hype).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Kermode also gets hung up on the one word use of Taxation.The film is very easy to follow but has subtle clues as to what is really going on in the grander scheme of things.

The taxation thing is a problem. It's hardly the most exciting subject matter for a blockbuster.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Did Kermode want the whole films plot written out in crayon so he could understand it?

I don't think that he was saying it was complicated, but that what is essentially a very simple story was hugely overcomplicated by an unnecessary (and hugely dull) plot revolving around trade embargoes and taxation.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 42

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 12:32:21 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19969
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

And the fact thats its opened so well proves how popular the film is with the public despite the constant moaning of the haters over the years.

Clutching at straws there surely Silas? I like The Phantom Menace, but citing box office in the face of the critical reaction as some kind of "I was right all along" type punchline to a 12 year running argument strikes me as a little bit much.

His username is Cool Breeze: it's not unreasonable to use it.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.

TREK WARS

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 43

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 1:08:16 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

And the fact thats its opened so well proves how popular the film is with the public despite the constant moaning of the haters over the years.

Clutching at straws there surely Silas? I like The Phantom Menace, but citing box office in the face of the critical reaction as some kind of "I was right all along" type punchline to a 12 year running argument strikes me as a little bit much.

His username is Cool Breeze: it's not unreasonable to use it.

I call everyone "Silas". It's a term I use thats not unlike "bro", "dude" etc. I don't think thats unreasonable at all. It's probably a cultural thing.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)

Post #: 44

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 1:13:19 PM

rich

Posts: 4138
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

Yeah me too, it's definately slang where I grew up for those nutters that love the Phantom Menace and can't stand Casino Royale.

The argument that it's popular so people complaining about it's quality are wrong is getting tired aswell.

< Message edited by rich -- 12/2/2012 1:14:41 PM >

_____________________________

THINGS
WRITINGS

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 45

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 1:33:36 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19969
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82
I call everyone "Silas". It's a term I use thats not unlike "bro", "dude" etc. I don't think thats unreasonable at all. It's probably a cultural thing.

Hurm.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.

TREK WARS

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 46

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 12/2/2012 5:47:57 PM

Mtsb

Posts: 6
Joined: 12/1/2012

Seen it and the 3D is nonexistent, even in the podrace, it just isn't there. And the film isn't any less shit being about darker. I can't believe i was duped into thinking it was worth going too. :(

_____________________________

I animate film reviews at www.SillyBeggar.com

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)

Post #: 47

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 11:15:38 AM

Bad Ash

Posts: 57
Joined: 13/2/2012

The Phantom Menace has one of the best and also one of the worst (actually THE worst) characters ever in it. Darth Maul is awesome (as is his double-ended lightsaber) but Jar Jar Bonks is just terrible. For me that's the deal breaker in terms of me not going to see it in 3D. I wont subject myself to that torture all over again!

And Jake Lloyd is so annoying he makes me want to pull my teeth out. He's nearly as bad as Haydn Christensen. Nearly!

_____________________________

I know where the bastard sleeps!

(in reply to Mtsb)

Post #: 48

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 11:34:51 AM

spark1

Posts: 5789
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The SW universe has a HUGE backstory that spans thousands of years.The film series has to begin somewhere and has to refer to what is currently happening in the SW galaxy.The opening crawl of EP1 does this like all the other films.

Kermode wasn't criticising the fact that there was an opening scrawl, but the content of the scroll, which, even as a fan of the film, I can admit is a problematic piece of exposition. It's dull, and did a pretty great job of flattening any sense of anticipation that might have built prior to that point (i.e. the hype).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Kermode also gets hung up on the one word use of Taxation.The film is very easy to follow but has subtle clues as to what is really going on in the grander scheme of things.

The taxation thing is a problem. It's hardly the most exciting subject matter for a blockbuster.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Did Kermode want the whole films plot written out in crayon so he could understand it?

I don't think that he was saying it was complicated, but that what is essentially a very simple story was hugely overcomplicated by an unnecessary (and hugely dull) plot revolving around trade embargoes and taxation.

the great myth about ep 1 is its all taxation talk when there is hardly any of that in the film.
just a couple of scenes where palpatine brings padme up to speed about the senate and then later pushes her to do the vote of no confidence.

the dr's review was lazy, refering back to what he said in '99 and not looking at ep 1 3 d with fresh eyes.

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 49

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 11:41:10 AM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1
the great myth about ep 1 is its all taxation talk when there is hardly any of that in the film.
just a couple of scenes where palpatine brings padme up to speed about the senate and then later pushes her to do the vote of no confidence.

It might not feature in every line of dialogue, but it's one of the key plot points that lead up to the eventual fate of the SW Universe. Like CB says, its only mentioned a few times explicitly, but thematically it's presence (and nods toward) is very important in terms of its relationship with the overarching storyline.

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1
the dr's review was lazy, refering back to what he said in '99 and not looking at ep 1 3 d with fresh eyes.

Nothing in his review suggests that though. He went to see the film again; a large portion of the review revolved around the 3D addition to this addition. I fear that you are a little bit blinkered by your hatred/jealousy for the good doctor.

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 50

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 11:54:05 AM

spark1

Posts: 5789
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1
the great myth about ep 1 is its all taxation talk when there is hardly any of that in the film.
just a couple of scenes where palpatine brings padme up to speed about the senate and then later pushes her to do the vote of no confidence.

It might not feature in every line of dialogue, but it's one of the key plot points that lead up to the eventual fate of the SW Universe. Like CB says, its only mentioned a few times explicitly, but thematically it's presence (and nods toward) is very important in terms of its relationship with the overarching storyline.

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1
the dr's review was lazy, refering back to what he said in '99 and not looking at ep 1 3 d with fresh eyes.

Nothing in his review suggests that though. He went to see the film again; a large portion of the review revolved around the 3D addition to this addition. I fear that you are a little bit blinkered by your hatred/jealousy for the good doctor.

listen again-he refers back to a radio competiton to take a listener to the ep 1 '99 premiere and then goes into his rant about the opening crawl as he did when he review the film that year.

'hatred/jealousy'?

no, he was fun to listen to in past but i now think he lost perspective over the years and become more arrogant and blinkered in his views.

listen to how he reacted to listeners critical of 'the artist'.

cult of personality does that to you.

< Message edited by spark1 -- 13/2/2012 12:00:31 PM >

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 51

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 12:00:28 PM

st3veebee

Posts: 2354
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: 9303 Lyon Drive

Kermode simply stated that starting a prequel to one of the biggets blockbuster franchises with a backstory about taxation of trade routes is ridiculously boring: which it is.

Also he could have just given out about Jar Jar for a solid hour but, as far as I remember, he didn't mention him at all.

I'd still like to see it in 2D if I could find a showing somewhere.

_____________________________

Latest Films:

Two days in New York: 4/5

Prometheus: 3.5/5

Abe Lincoln: VH 3/5

Twin Peaks: FWWM 3.5/5

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 52

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 12:22:37 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Nothing in his review suggests that though. He went to see the film again; a large portion of the review revolved around the 3D addition to this addition. I fear that you are a little bit blinkered by your hatred/jealousy for the good doctor.

listen again-he refers back to a radio competiton to take a listener to the ep 1 '99 premiere and then goes into his rant about the opening crawl as he did when he review the film that year.

Just because he referred back to a competition from 1999, and felt the same way about the opening crawl now as he did do then doesn't in any way suggest that what you were implying is true though; It's not a lazy review, nor is it "ill-informed", which is what you said initially. He saw The Phantom Menace in 1999 and he didn't like it. He saw The Phantom Menace in 2012 and he didn't like it. It's hardly the most shocking outcome in the world. To say that he's "ill-informed" is ridiculous, quite simply because he's as "informed" as anyone who's seen the film!

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1
listen to how he reacted to listeners critical of 'the artist'.

cult of personality does that to you.

Seriously?

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 53

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 12:55:45 PM

horribleives

Posts: 4183
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The SW universe has a HUGE backstory that spans thousands of years.The film series has to begin somewhere and has to refer to what is currently happening in the SW galaxy.The opening crawl of EP1 does this like all the other films.Kermode also gets hung up on the one word use of Taxation.The film is very easy to follow but has subtle clues as to what is really going on in the grander scheme of things.Did Kermode want the whole films plot written out in crayon so he could understand it?

Why not? I'm pretty sure that's what George wrote the script with.

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 54

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 2:01:20 PM

spark1

Posts: 5789
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

Nothing in his review suggests that though. He went to see the film again; a large portion of the review revolved around the 3D addition to this addition. I fear that you are a little bit blinkered by your hatred/jealousy for the good doctor.

listen again-he refers back to a radio competiton to take a listener to the ep 1 '99 premiere and then goes into his rant about the opening crawl as he did when he review the film that year.

Just because he referred back to a competition from 1999, and felt the same way about the opening crawl now as he did do then doesn't in any way suggest that what you were implying is true though; It's not a lazy review, nor is it "ill-informed", which is what you said initially. He saw The Phantom Menace in 1999 and he didn't like it. He saw The Phantom Menace in 2012 and he didn't like it. It's hardly the most shocking outcome in the world. To say that he's "ill-informed" is ridiculous, quite simply because he's as "informed" as anyone who's seen the film!

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1
listen to how he reacted to listeners critical of 'the artist'.

cult of personality does that to you.

Seriously?

in the end he forgot to judge from a different perspective after 14 years- not for acting/dialogue but as whether it works as a visual spectacle in 3d-

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/reviews/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-3d-bfi-imax-review/

< Message edited by spark1 -- 13/2/2012 2:03:20 PM >

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 55

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 2:02:58 PM

superdan

Posts: 7230
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

in the end he forgot to judge it not for acting/dialogue but as whether it works as a visual spectacle-

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/reviews/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-3d-bfi-imax-review/

To be fair, judging it as a visual spectacle rather than for it's acting/dialogue is probably doing the film a favour.

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 56

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 2:59:16 PM

Spaldron

Posts: 10487
Joined: 6/10/2006
From: Chair

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

in the end he forgot to judge from a different perspective after 14 years- not for acting/dialogue but as whether it works as a visual spectacle in 3d-

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/reviews/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-3d-bfi-imax-review/

So forget all about the fact that the film is crap and only focus on the technical aspects, like how was the 3D?

_____________________________

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
And I looked and behold, a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death
And Hell followed with him.

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 57

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 13/2/2012 3:43:34 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1
in the end he forgot to judge from a different perspective after 14 years- not for acting/dialogue but as whether it works as a visual spectacle in 3d-

He spent a large part of the review talking about the 3D, and how it added nothing.

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 58

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 14/2/2012 11:35:24 AM

spark1

Posts: 5789
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1
in the end he forgot to judge from a different perspective after 14 years- not for acting/dialogue but as whether it works as a visual spectacle in 3d-

He spent a large part of the review talking about the 3D, and how it added nothing.

you could look up his review from '99, and i remember hearing from back then, and it was virtually the same as last week's only with his opinion about the 3 d added.

thats why it was lazy.

< Message edited by spark1 -- 14/2/2012 11:37:09 AM >

(in reply to adambatman82)

Post #: 59

RE: Star Wars saga 3D - 14/2/2012 12:41:45 PM

adambatman82

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1
it was virtually the same as last week's only with the 3 d added.

thats why it was lazy.

That's a perfect description of The Phantom Menace 3D.

On a serious note, I honestly don't know what you expected from a review of what is essentially an archive title, and one that he'd reviewed before no less. If anything any repetition just goes to show that the problems from 12 years ago haven't changed with age. Kermode has retrospectively viewed a film for a second time and changed his tune considerably in the past (Blue Velvet being the obvious one), so I don't think that stubbornness upon second viewing is something that is on his agenda.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 14/2/2012 12:45:18 PM >

(in reply to spark1)

Post #: 60