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RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 12/2/2013 11:48:12 AM   
borstal


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Good article in that I could clearly understand what was being said! Far too much elitist techno babble when folks start talking about specs and the implications of them.

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Post #: 211
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 12/2/2013 12:49:09 PM   
Titanm21


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Do we think with this next gen gaming we'll see a full decline of phyical games. Will be in the next 5 years be on full downloads straight from the Publisher (i.e Cutting out retail shops altogether.

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Post #: 212
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 12/2/2013 2:11:46 PM   
sroey


Posts: 1473
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If they sort the ridiculous prices of games on demand out then I could see it happening eventually. For some reason games you can pickup in stores for £20 are added to GoD service for £39.99. Why would anyone bother? Its a waste of fecking bandwidth!

MS better knock it out of the park this time. If I am going to have all these bloody adverts and services thrown at me then at least invest in some decent original games.


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Post #: 213
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 12/2/2013 2:20:48 PM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
Joined: 18/10/2006
From: The Womb
quote:

ORIGINAL: sroey

If they sort the ridiculous prices of games on demand out then I could see it happening eventually. For some reason games you can pickup in stores for £20 are added to GoD service for £39.99. Why would anyone bother? Its a waste of fecking bandwidth!

MS better knock it out of the park this time. If I am going to have all these bloody adverts and services thrown at me then at least invest in some decent original games.



See I think we will and they'll keep the games at the £45 mark (both Sony & MS) simply becuase they own the market so to speak. What choice will we have but to comply?

Perhaps for the first time we'll see a number of people not upgrading.

< Message edited by Titanm21 -- 12/2/2013 2:21:55 PM >


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Post #: 214
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 13/2/2013 10:38:07 AM   
borstal


Posts: 9175
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From: its grom up nirth
I noticed on the dashboard last night that they were promoting CoDBlops 2 full download. I thought I'd have a laugh and check at what price this non-tradable game was offered at.

£49.99

I have never fallen off my chair and rolled on floor laughing and probably never will (Pam Doove on LoG almost got me there once) I just chuckled a bit. Don't even know if it was out loud.

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Post #: 215
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 13/2/2013 11:49:43 AM   
Chief


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From: Banshee
I'd happily download games on demand if the price was right. More chance of an impulse/drunken buy that way and I wouldn't have to get off my arse and go out.

< Message edited by Chief -- 13/2/2013 11:50:10 AM >

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Post #: 216
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 13/2/2013 11:50:24 AM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
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Same price as Crysis 2... STILL!! How olds that game now? 2years?

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Post #: 217
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 13/2/2013 11:56:39 AM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

I'd happily download games on demand if the price was right. More chance of an impulse/drunken buy that way and I wouldn't have to get off my arse and go out.


That's the kicker though innit, the prices are nowhere near right at the moment. It's Microsoft's absurd On Demand pricing that will make opting out of the first generation of consoles with no physical drive a no brainer for me. That and always on internet connection are deal breakers as far as I'm concerned. I'd be pissed off if they started pissing about with DRM and phased out the 2nd hand market but I'd be able to deal with it. Having the ability to use my console at the mercy of my ISP and the pricing of the games at the mercy of Microsoft/Sony would be a huge no no though.

< Message edited by Harry Tuttle -- 13/2/2013 12:08:21 PM >


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Post #: 218
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 13/2/2013 12:05:05 PM   
sroey


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This would be huge if true...

http://www.oxm.co.uk/50182/bungies-timed-xbox-exclusive-destiny-to-scoop-sonys-ps4-reveal/


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Post #: 219
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 13/2/2013 1:26:12 PM   
Chief


Posts: 7778
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From: Banshee

quote:

ORIGINAL: sroey

This would be huge if true...

http://www.oxm.co.uk/50182/bungies-timed-xbox-exclusive-destiny-to-scoop-sonys-ps4-reveal/



Fuck all the other stuff, I'm sold.

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Post #: 220
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 14/2/2013 5:47:50 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


Posts: 13301
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

I'd happily download games on demand if the price was right. More chance of an impulse/drunken buy that way and I wouldn't have to get off my arse and go out.


That's the kicker though innit, the prices are nowhere near right at the moment. It's Microsoft's absurd On Demand pricing that will make opting out of the first generation of consoles with no physical drive a no brainer for me. That and always on internet connection are deal breakers as far as I'm concerned. I'd be pissed off if they started pissing about with DRM and phased out the 2nd hand market but I'd be able to deal with it. Having the ability to use my console at the mercy of my ISP and the pricing of the games at the mercy of Microsoft/Sony would be a huge no no though.


Pricing genuinely isn't a concern, iOS is only going to grow and grow, and it's not long before Apple TV will start to offer games and a controller and move into streaming if not fully fledged games that match those of consoles. Hell even now some of the indie games being made offer better quality than half the crap churned out on the home consoles. Steambox (if it does exist) is going to grow the Valve brand into the living room and offer the same cheap prices the platform already has, and so when MS and Sony do go that way then prices will have to be competitive.

People do need to also bear I'm mind that this worry of price hikes or lack of bargains because its all digital has no real grounding. The same principles of supply and demand apply even if there's no physical product, with game costs soaring each generation it's only going to be worthwhile making a game if enough units can be sold to at least break even, this isn't going to happen if the price is beyond the reach of the consumer. Prices are high at the moment on PSN and XBL because they needn't be lower, they're not really there for any other reason than testing the waters.

< Message edited by Sexual Harassment Panda -- 14/2/2013 5:49:15 PM >


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Post #: 221
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 22/2/2013 8:18:53 AM   
From_Hell


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From: The foot of the MegaTree
The PS4 console is now available to pre-order at £400.

http://www.shopto.net/video%20games/ps4/PS4HW00-playstation-4-console

I guess it would be fair to assume the new Xbox is going to be priced about the same...

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Post #: 222
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 22/2/2013 11:54:58 AM   
Titanm21


Posts: 1177
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http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a460855/new-xbox-announcement-expected-in-april.html


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Post #: 223
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 22/2/2013 12:50:49 PM   
Whistler


Posts: 3124
Joined: 22/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: From_Hell

The PS4 console is now available to pre-order at £400.

http://www.shopto.net/video%20games/ps4/PS4HW00-playstation-4-console

I guess it would be fair to assume the new Xbox is going to be priced about the same...


At a glance I read that as "The PS4 controller is now available to pre-order at £400".

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Post #: 224
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 22/2/2013 6:52:32 PM   
Whistler


Posts: 3124
Joined: 22/11/2006
On the subject of games on demand...

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/02/22/the-xbox-live-ultimate-game-sale-starts-february-26?utm_campaign=ign main twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

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Post #: 225
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 25/2/2013 9:30:37 AM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8061
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: From_Hell

The PS4 console is now available to pre-order at £400.

http://www.shopto.net/video%20games/ps4/PS4HW00-playstation-4-console

I guess it would be fair to assume the new Xbox is going to be priced about the same...


You only pay the price on release date, they know its not going to be £400 and that's all the information we can take from that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanm21

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a460855/new-xbox-announcement-expected-in-april.html



Wishful thinking by Sony and the usual tubthumping bollocks.
What exactly did Sony announce and show? We know the next gen are to be announced early this year so whats the big news that's made MS move everything forward?
Nothing, they showed a controller and a few graphics. No specs, no details, no design nothing that is going to hold anyones imagination or excitement for the next 6 months. Sony went early to try and get the drop on MS, but as I understood it MS were originally looking at a Feb announcement so we looking for pre P1. Maybe it's slipped, maybe they missed their initial deadline and maybe they've put it back a few weeks instead of moving it forward to actually have something tangible to show to get the gamers on the vinegar stroke for their geekgasm.

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 25/2/2013 9:46:23 AM >


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Post #: 226
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 25/2/2013 10:12:08 AM   
sroey


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Agree - Not sure how Sony think they have ruffled MS feathers with that announcement...

It was pretty good but nothing earth shattering. In fact looking back now the hype has died down I'd say it was a little bit bland. Controller looks nice and the share function is interesting but the streaming tech was only mentioned briefly and the move is the same right? No upgrade there - new PS Eye?

If MS show the actually device (somehow this is important) with more concrete details then they will already have one up on Sony. If the Kinect 2.0 is bundled with it and the system has some Killer new IP then that's all I'll need to see




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Post #: 227
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 7:39:09 AM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


Posts: 13301
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: sroey

Agree - Not sure how Sony think they have ruffled MS feathers with that announcement...

It was pretty good but nothing earth shattering. In fact looking back now the hype has died down I'd say it was a little bit bland. Controller looks nice and the share function is interesting but the streaming tech was only mentioned briefly and the move is the same right? No upgrade there - new PS Eye?

If MS show the actually device (somehow this is important) with more concrete details then they will already have one up on Sony. If the Kinect 2.0 is bundled with it and the system has some Killer new IP then that's all I'll need to see

I feel very much the same, if Kinect is forced upon me then there's every chance that will be enough to make me buy a Playstation.





< Message edited by Sexual Harassment Panda -- 26/2/2013 7:41:29 AM >


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Post #: 228
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 9:26:09 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1160
Joined: 2/4/2006
I know there is a dedicated PS4 thread, but this seems to have become the de facto next gen console discussion thread so I'll post this here.

Bob: Here is the spec sheet Sony released after the conference: click me.

The reason the announcement was really well received by developers and more tech savvy gamers was the choice of a single pool of 8GB of ultra fast GDDR RAM. Up to that point the rumour mill was sure it would be 4GB (and in all other respects the rumours were spot on) compared with Xbox's 8GB of much slower DDR3 RAM (albeit with a cache of faster memory to help compensate).

This led to a back and forth over which solution would be better: was a smaller pool of fast RAM better than a Bigger pool of slow RAM, or vice versa. Both sides made valid points, but the consensus among the hardware geeks was Sony's solution was probably better for games. When Sony announced there is to 8GB: matching MS' rumoured offering, and at triple the bandwidth of DDR3 it seems that any discussion about which is better has become largely moot. I'm not a tech specialist. I'm reasonably savvy so can follow the debate even if I don't completely understand the subtleties. So give this analysis as much weight as it deserves.

On top of this Sony's console is reported to have a significantly more powerful graphics chip and is apparently much easier to develop for than the PS3 was. Sony appears to have learned their lesson after 2 generations of exotic architecture and gone with a more conventional design.

Xbox is rumoured to have a stronger CPU, and their choice of low latency memory is reportedly better for general purpose computing so it might not be as one sided as current speculation would have us believe.

I should probably note at this point that the next gen Xbox's reported specs are still based on leaked documents. It is possible that things have changed. but the same sources who leaked these specs were almost right on the money about PS4 (except for the quantity of memory, which appears to be last minute revision).

From where we stand it looks like PS4 will be significantly more powerful than the next Xbox, but we'll have to wait at least until MS do their unveiling to be sure what their offering's spec sheet looks like (assuming they release it). Whichever is more powerful, both are beasts compared to the current generation of consoles (plus WiiU) and whatever side of the fanboy divide we find ourselves (if any) there is plenty to be happy about.

sroey: There is a new camera. It is stereo for better depth tracking and should work better with the Move controller: for those who are into that sort of thing.

The mad thing is that we are still probably the best part of a year away from release and already the tribes of rabid fanboys from both camps are sharpening their poisoned pens. I happen to find fanboy wars incredibly entertaining as a spectator sport. I can only imagine how much fun things are going to be as things develop.

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Post #: 229
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 9:32:47 AM   
Chief


Posts: 7778
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee
I remember the good old days of fanboy console wars when it simply came down to the fact that Sonic could kick Mario's arse in a fight.

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Post #: 230
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 9:43:33 AM   
sroey


Posts: 1473
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

I know there is a dedicated PS4 thread, but this seems to have become the de facto next gen console discussion thread so I'll post this here.

Bob: Here is the spec sheet Sony released after the conference: click me.

The reason the announcement was really well received by developers and more tech savvy gamers was the choice of a single pool of 8GB of ultra fast GDDR RAM. Up to that point the rumour mill was sure it would be 4GB (and in all other respects the rumours were spot on) compared with Xbox's 8GB of much slower DDR3 RAM (albeit with a cache of faster memory to help compensate).

This led to a back and forth over which solution would be better: was a smaller pool of fast RAM better than a Bigger pool of slow RAM, or vice versa. Both sides made valid points, but the consensus among the hardware geeks was Sony's solution was probably better for games. When Sony announced there is to 8GB: matching MS' rumoured offering, and at triple the bandwidth of DDR3 it seems that any discussion about which is better has become largely moot. I'm not a tech specialist. I'm reasonably savvy so can follow the debate even if I don't completely understand the subtleties. So give this analysis as much weight as it deserves.

On top of this Sony's console is reported to have a significantly more powerful graphics chip and is apparently much easier to develop for than the PS3 was. Sony appears to have learned their lesson after 2 generations of exotic architecture and gone with a more conventional design.

Xbox is rumoured to have a stronger CPU, and their choice of low latency memory is reportedly better for general purpose computing so it might not be as one sided as current speculation would have us believe.

I should probably note at this point that the next gen Xbox's reported specs are still based on leaked documents. It is possible that things have changed. but the same sources who leaked these specs were almost right on the money about PS4 (except for the quantity of memory, which appears to be last minute revision).

From where we stand it looks like PS4 will be significantly more powerful than the next Xbox, but we'll have to wait at least until MS do their unveiling to be sure what their offering's spec sheet looks like (assuming they release it). Whichever is more powerful, both are beasts compared to the current generation of consoles (plus WiiU) and whatever side of the fanboy divide we find ourselves (if any) there is plenty to be happy about.

sroey: There is a new camera. It is stereo for better depth tracking and should work better with the Move controller: for those who are into that sort of thing.

The mad thing is that we are still probably the best part of a year away from release and already the tribes of rabid fanboys from both camps are sharpening their poisoned pens. I happen to find fanboy wars incredibly entertaining as a spectator sport. I can only imagine how much fun things are going to be as things develop.


Only part I dont quite agree with...

Still I can pick apart the Sony conference all I want - after the presentation all I could think of was how the MS reveal will be more or less the same...oooh shiny graphics...

I hope Kinect 2.0 lives up to its potential more this time around. Same with Move and the eye/camera thingy.




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Post #: 231
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 9:52:04 AM   
Chief


Posts: 7778
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee

quote:

ORIGINAL: sroey

I hope Kinect 2.0 lives up to its potential more this time around. Same with Move and the eye/camera thingy.



No matter what they come up with, both will still involve you you standing flapping your arms about like a dickhead in your living room. Good fun half a dozen times a year when you've got a house full of pissed up friends, shite the rest of the time when you want to sit down and shoot aliens.

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Post #: 232
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 10:05:45 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1160
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: sroey

Only part I dont quite agree with...

Still I can pick apart the Sony conference all I want - after the presentation all I could think of was how the MS reveal will be more or less the same...oooh shiny graphics...

I hope Kinect 2.0 lives up to its potential more this time around. Same with Move and the eye/camera thingy.



Should probably have put "on paper" into that sentence somewhere. Never mind.

What I find interesting is how Sony pretty much opened the show with a spec list. It was almost like a statement of intent for the hardcore. The question is have they misjudged the current market?

I find it really hard to believe they don't have a better idea of what MS is up to than the bloggers. To open with a spec list implies (at least to me) that they know they have a beast so are happy to come out with it. It will be interesting to see MS' response. Will they even mention their specs? Will they fudge them? And if they do what inferences can be drawn? Of course that is assuming the leaked info is true. What if theirs is even more beastly?

It is like manna from heaven for the fanboys.


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Post #: 233
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 10:11:13 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1160
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief


No matter what they come up with, both will still involve you you standing flapping your arms about like a dickhead in your living room. Good fun half a dozen times a year when you've got a house full of pissed up friends, shite the rest of the time when you want to sit down and shoot aliens.


I still think true 1:1 head tracking for first person games would be amazing. If the perspective on the screen shifted to match your viewing angle your TV would be like looking through a window.

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Post #: 234
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 10:35:24 AM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2581
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think sadly it's a little too late for Microsoft to do anything major about the Xbox specifications, assuming the rumours regarding the hardware are accurate that is, they've been spot-on for PS4 so far.

I wouldn't be suprised if Sony's suprise 8GB announcement was a revision of their original spec in light of Microsoft's supposed 8GB plans, it's one of the few things you can change quite late in the day. Micosoft pulled a similar stunt quite late in the 360's development if memory serves, after Epic bent their ear about packing 512MB RAM in.

The rest of the machine's makeup is probably locked down now, far too late in the day to be swapping out or upgrading core components like GPU's, which is unfortunate given that the Xbox's rumoured GPU is a whopping 35-40% down on floating pooint calculations compared to the PS4, which is quite a considerable margin.

They could always do what Sega did with the Saturn and just chuck another CPU in there willy-nilly! That ended well!

I'm a bit of a hardware whore and a Microsoft man, so I'll be dissapointed if this all turns out to be true, not that slightly shinier graphics make a game better mind you, but they don't do any harm either. That said, it's all rumours at this stage, the leaked Durango specs could very well all be smoke and mirrors and Microsoft will pull something loopy out of the bag when the time comes.

Anything is possible.

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Post #: 235
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 10:38:56 AM   
Chief


Posts: 7778
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief


No matter what they come up with, both will still involve you you standing flapping your arms about like a dickhead in your living room. Good fun half a dozen times a year when you've got a house full of pissed up friends, shite the rest of the time when you want to sit down and shoot aliens.


I still think true 1:1 head tracking for first person games would be amazing. If the perspective on the screen shifted to match your viewing angle your TV would be like looking through a window.


The theory sounds cool, but I think it would prove awkward. I mean, if I'm sitting on my couch and I turn my head to the right I'd be looking into my kitchen. My eyes would have to remain on the screen.

Unless you had one of those 3 screen set ups it would be pointless, I can see the whole screen without moving. If they could track eye movement then it might work.

< Message edited by Chief -- 26/2/2013 10:39:49 AM >

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Post #: 236
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 11:08:50 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1160
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief


The theory sounds cool, but I think it would prove awkward. I mean, if I'm sitting on my couch and I turn my head to the right I'd be looking into my kitchen. My eyes would have to remain on the screen.

Unless you had one of those 3 screen set ups it would be pointless, I can see the whole screen without moving. If they could track eye movement then it might work.


That isn't exactly what I had in mind. Your eyes would be fixed on the screen, but your heads position relative to it defines what is rendered. As you get closer the field of view opens up as you get further away it closes in. Move to the left and a little more image is shown on the right, with all the resulting parallax cues to sell the effect.

In effect your screen becomes a window to the game world and your position relative to it defines where the in game "camera" is. As such it would probably work better sitting close to a monitor rather than in your typical living room set up. In any case it'd be very hard to get it to work properly (any discrepancy between what you can see and what your brain expects might cause serious disorientation, if not nausea) but I've seen proof of concept tests and the illusion is uncanny. It is perfect for driving games in particular. With all this extra processing power it might be possible: if the will to develop it were there.

Then there is the Oculus Rift, which if reports are to be believed would render it obsolete anyway.

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Post #: 237
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 12:45:45 PM   
sroey


Posts: 1473
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978


quote:

ORIGINAL: sroey

Only part I dont quite agree with...

Still I can pick apart the Sony conference all I want - after the presentation all I could think of was how the MS reveal will be more or less the same...oooh shiny graphics...

I hope Kinect 2.0 lives up to its potential more this time around. Same with Move and the eye/camera thingy.



Should probably have put "on paper" into that sentence somewhere. Never mind.

What I find interesting is how Sony pretty much opened the show with a spec list. It was almost like a statement of intent for the hardcore. The question is have they misjudged the current market?

I find it really hard to believe they don't have a better idea of what MS is up to than the bloggers. To open with a spec list implies (at least to me) that they know they have a beast so are happy to come out with it. It will be interesting to see MS' response. Will they even mention their specs? Will they fudge them? And if they do what inferences can be drawn? Of course that is assuming the leaked info is true. What if theirs is even more beastly?

It is like manna from heaven for the fanboys.




Good point with the intent of the opening spec list. The machine is indeed powerful. I have to ask though - initially at least...is anyone going to tell the difference in graphical quality during the first 1-2 years if the specs are true? At this stage I'm more interested in what MS name the bloody thing...




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Post #: 238
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 26/2/2013 7:47:40 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


Posts: 13301
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief


The theory sounds cool, but I think it would prove awkward. I mean, if I'm sitting on my couch and I turn my head to the right I'd be looking into my kitchen. My eyes would have to remain on the screen.

Unless you had one of those 3 screen set ups it would be pointless, I can see the whole screen without moving. If they could track eye movement then it might work.


That isn't exactly what I had in mind. Your eyes would be fixed on the screen, but your heads position relative to it defines what is rendered. As you get closer the field of view opens up as you get further away it closes in. Move to the left and a little more image is shown on the right, with all the resulting parallax cues to sell the effect.

In effect your screen becomes a window to the game world and your position relative to it defines where the in game "camera" is. As such it would probably work better sitting close to a monitor rather than in your typical living room set up. In any case it'd be very hard to get it to work properly (any discrepancy between what you can see and what your brain expects might cause serious disorientation, if not nausea) but I've seen proof of concept tests and the illusion is uncanny. It is perfect for driving games in particular. With all this extra processing power it might be possible: if the will to develop it were there.

Then there is the Oculus Rift, which if reports are to be believed would render it obsolete anyway.



As motion controls have already proved thus far, moving around the room to play games does not add to the experience and in fact sitting down and kicking back is half the appeal, if I have to move around my living room and walk about to get the full experience then count me out. This is also a tech that would be heavily reliant on living room space, and those of us with TVs in the corners of our rooms would be fucked.

The best things they could do (besides binning off this motion control nonsense) is more subtle additions, e.g. I'm playing Fallout and by raising my arm up my view changes to the Pip Boy screen.


< Message edited by Sexual Harassment Panda -- 26/2/2013 7:48:36 PM >


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Post #: 239
RE: Xbox '720' Thread - 27/2/2013 10:29:16 AM   
Peter Griffin


Posts: 2885
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

As motion controls have already proved thus far, moving around the room to play games does not add to the experience and in fact sitting down and kicking back is half the appeal, if I have to move around my living room and walk about to get the full experience then count me out. This is also a tech that would be heavily reliant on living room space, and those of us with TVs in the corners of our rooms would be fucked.


Nail on head.

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